Maybe we should stir it up...

[BawLa]

With all of the recent injuries we have been forced to give some of our bench players a starting role. It seems like Martin and Garcia are energy guys and should come off the bench. But KT has not been happy coming off the bench. Nor has he been effecient. Last year KT averaged 14.5 ppg (on close to 50% shooting), almost 9 rpg, and about 3 apg for us as a starter. Peja is averaging 17 ppg (on 42% shooting), 4.5 rpg, and just over 2 apg this year.

So what do you think of this...

Start Kenny at PF and Reef at SF (when he comes back). Trade Peja. This is not a trade thread so please don't reply with trade options.

This idea stemmed from both the obviousness of Peja's underperformance and the obvious need for "role" playing starters. I think KT could do more for us as a starter as he is a better rebounder than both Peja and Reef. Reef is much more consistent than Peja this year. Furthermore Peja still has trade value, even with a contract that ends after this season.

 

[John Galt]

I've been reluctantly convinced that Peja might not be the answer for the Kings after all, so I'll vote a half-hearted yes to your proposal

 

[AleksandarN]

With all of the recent injuries we have been forced to give some of our bench players a starting role. It seems like Martin and Garcia are energy guys and should come off the bench. But KT has not been happy coming off the bench. Nor has he been effecient. Last year KT averaged 14.5 ppg (on close to 50% shooting), almost 9 rpg, and about 3 apg for us as a starter. Peja is averaging 17 ppg (on 42% shooting), 4.5 rpg, and just over 2 apg this year.

So what do you think of this...

Start Kenny at PF and Reef at SF (when he comes back). Trade Peja. This is not a trade thread so please don't reply with trade options.

This idea stemmed from both the obviousness of Peja's underperformance and the obvious need for "role" playing starters. I think KT could do more for us as a starter as he is a better rebounder and defender than both Peja and Reef. Reef is much more consistent than Peja this year. Furthermore Peja still has trade value, even with a contract that ends after this season.

What makes you think that KT would be a better option then Pedja? He is undersized PF who can neither guard SF and PF effectively. I had enough of him he is one should be traded if possible.

 

[BawLa]

What makes you think that KT would be a better option then Pedja? He is undersized PF who can neither guard SF and PF effectively. I had enough of him he is one should be traded if possible.

You have a good point. I guess that 5 extra rebounds per game means 5 more opportunities for us and 5 less for opponents. Lets be real here, Peja isn't exactly a stellar defender either. At least KT leaves it all on the floor. Peja demands too many shots for his efficiency. KT was both efficient and energetic when he started for us last year.

 

[ParniValjak]

You have a good point. I guess that 5 extra rebounds per game means 5 more opportunities for us and 5 less for opponents. Lets be real here, Peja isn't exactly a stellar defender either. At least KT leaves it all on the floor. Peja demands too many shots for his efficiency. KT was both efficient and energetic when he started for us last year.

If he is such a crappy defender as people here like to make him out to be, then why is it that he is given an assignment to defender oppositions best swingman type player on most occasions. Why is such a crappy defender given roles to defend the likes of Redd, Lewis, Allen, LBJ etc..????

Surely if he was as bad a defender as people like to make him out then he wouldn't be getting those defensive assignments.

 

[AleksandarN]

You have a good point. I guess that 5 extra rebounds per game means 5 more opportunities for us and 5 less for opponents. Lets be real here, Peja isn't exactly a stellar defender either. At least KT leaves it all on the floor. Peja demands too many shots for his efficiency. KT was both efficient and energetic when he started for us last year.

I do not get where you think KT would be more efficient than Pedja. Kenny has not had a good season so far. I was so happy with last year and thought he would a excellent 6th man. Look how he has played so far this year. He has been a disappointment and now with his comments and attitude it makes it worse. Yes every player other than Bonzi is a disappointment this year but add Kenny's attitude on top of it and it is a no brainer who has to go.

 

[BawLa]

I do not get where you think KT would be more efficient than Pedja. Kenny has not had a good season so far. I so happy with last year and thought he would a excellent 6th man but look how he has played so far this year has been a disappointment with his comments and attitude. Yes everyone is a disappointment this year but Kenny's attitude I think is even worse.

You need to actually read what I wrote originally in order to understand. I did not say KT would be more efficient then Peja. Reef has the highest shooting percentage in the NBA. I'm thinking he could be a SF. I said KT has more energy and grabs more boards than Peja. Hence a "role" player. The reason why we have been losing so much this year cannot be placed on one person's shoulders. But it is obvious that we lack "role" players. With Bibby, Bonzi, and Reef being consistent, we cannot give Peja 17 shots per game. Especially since he hasn't shot well all season long as a starter. I know KT hasn't been good off the bench, but he hasn't ever been a bench guy. I wonder how well Peja would shoot if he were all of a sudden the 6th man.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

If we trade Peja, the lineup should be as follows:

C-Miller
PF-Reef
SF-Thomas(depending on who we get for Peja)
SG-Bonzi
PG-Bibby

Hey, here's a novel idea: Start Thomas at the SF so he can utilize his abilities that better serve his height and allow him to use his quickness on the boards and get more involved defensively. He's too damn undersized to play PF, but great size to play SF.

 

[AleksandarN]

You need to actually read what I wrote originally in order to understand. I did not say KT would be more efficient then Peja. Reef has the highest shooting percentage in the NBA. I'm thinking he could be a SF. I said KT has more energy and grabs more boards than Peja. Hence a "role" player. The reason why we have been losing so much this year cannot be placed on one person's shoulders. But it is obvious that we lack "role" players. With Bibby, Bonzi, and Reef being consistent, we cannot give Peja 17 shots per game. Especially since he hasn't shot well all season long as a starter. I know KT hasn't been good off the bench, but he hasn't ever been a bench guy. I wonder how well Peja would shoot if he were all of a sudden the 6th man.

I obviously miss read that part. You should reply more tactfully though. Having two players that are not good defensively would not make up for any rebounds we would gain for having them both on the court.

 

[AleksandarN]

If we trade Peja, the lineup should be as follows:

C-Miller
PF-Reef
SF-Thomas(depending on who we get for Peja)
SG-Bonzi
PG-Bibby

Hey, here's a novel idea: Start Thomas at the SF so he can utilize his abilities that better serve his height and allow him to use his quickness on the boards and get more involved defensively. He's too damn undersized to play PF, but great size to play SF.

He is not quick enough to guard any small forward in the league he is not a good perimeter defender.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

He is not quick enough to guard any small forward in the league he is not a good perimeter defender.

defensive rotation Bonzi is quick enough.

 

[AleksandarN]

defensive rotation Bonzi is quick enough.

Who rotates to the SG then?

 

[BawLa]

He is not quick enough to guard any small forward in the league he is not a good perimeter defender.

You have good points. It is definitely not a sound solution. However, we are in a pickle to say the least. I think we either wait for Peja to return to all star status (which may never happen), or we try to mix things up a bit.

Packaging Peja and Brad for a superior center could be an option. Again, this is not a trade thread, but I say this because a superior center + KT might be enough of a combo to take on other PF/C combos.

 

[AleksandarN]

You have good points. It is definitely not a sound solution. However, we are in a pickle to say the least. I think we either wait for Peja to return to all star status (which may never happen), or we try to mix things up a bit.

Packaging Peja and Brad for a superior center could be an option. Again, this is not a trade thread, but I say this because a superior center + KT might be enough of a combo to take on other PF/C combos.

What superstar center swould we get? Because the only two centers(Walace and Camby) that would help are team are not aviable. We have to be realistic here.

 

[BawLa]

What superstar center swould we get? Because the only two centers(Walace and Camby) that would help are team are not aviable. We have to be realistic here.

You're totally right.

I still stand by my statement about stirring it up.

 

[Bonzinator]

i would rather have shareef play the power forward spot and have kenny play small forward because SAR is an inside scorer and kenny is a jumpshooter and hes to small to guard duncan and garnett. and when SAR has guarded them hes done a great job on them.

 

[JJ22L]

If he is such a crappy defender as people here like to make him out to be, then why is it that he is given an assignment to defender oppositions best swingman type player on most occasions. Why is such a crappy defender given roles to defend the likes of Redd, Lewis, Allen, LBJ etc..????

Surely if he was as bad a defender as people like to make him out then he wouldn't be getting those defensive assignments.

HA- who the %#$$ else would we throw at Redd, Lewis, Allen, LBJ..

BIBBY?? MILLER??? SAR???....maybe bonzi now i guess..but yea..when your full of a team of non defenders like last years was Peja is kinda your only option because hes big and isnt all that slow.

 

[BawLa]

i would rather have shareef play the power forward spot and have kenny play small forward because SAR is an inside scorer and kenny is a jumpshooter and hes to small to guard duncan and garnett. and when SAR has guarded them hes done a great job on them.

Good Point.

I wish I could change the poll question.

KT has the variability of shooting and working inside. Both KT and Reef could work opposite sides down low when Brad plays point center. Also KT can shoot the 18-20 footer when Brad works down low. Peja could be scrapped/packaged for a decent bench player(s).

 

[JJ22L]

Good Point.

I wish I could change the poll question.

KT has the variability of shooting and working inside. Both KT and Reef could work opposite sides down low when Brad plays point center. Also KT can shoot the 18-20 footer when Brad works down low. Peja could be scrapped/packaged for a decent bench player(s).

If Petrie did that i would personally drive to wherever he happens to be at the time i hear of this going down...and slap him in the face. He better NOT settle with trading peja for "decent" bench players *COUGH WHAT HE DID WITH WEBBER AND EVERYONE INCLUDING ME IS STILL HAVING ISSUES WITH IT COUGH COUGH*. Should get some cough drops for that one...it was a pretty long one.

 

[ParniValjak]

HA- who the %#$$ else would we throw at Redd, Lewis, Allen, LBJ..

BIBBY?? MILLER??? SAR???....maybe bonzi now i guess..but yea..when your full of a team of non defenders Peja is kinda your only option because hes big.

Why not Bonzi??????

Everyone says Bonzi is our best defender. If thats the case why isn't he drawing big assignments?????? Fact is that Peja is a good defender not a great defender but he is a very good man on man defender. He sucks at help defence but he is not the only one on this team.

Seems to me that a lot of people here love to bag the players for the sake of it and invent things to build their case. People love to kick players while they are down. Webber copped it by tuckloads. Miller is copping it, Peja is obviously copping it and so has Mike.

Sure players are out of form and Peja is probably the one that sucks the most at the moment but to say he is our worst defender (or he is a crap defender) is being ignorant to say the least.

ut hey that still doesn't stop people from carrying on with it.

 

[JJ22L]

Why not Bonzi??????

Everyone says Bonzi is our best defender. If thats the case why isn't he drawing big assignments?????? Fact is that Peja is a good defender not a great defender but he is a very good man on man defender. He sucks at help defence but he is not the only one on this team.

Seems to me that a lot of people here love to bag the players for the sake of it and invent things to build their case. People love to kick players while they are down. Webber copped it by tuckloads. Miller is copping it, Peja is obviously copping it and so has Mike.

Sure players are out of form and Peja is probably the one that sucks the most at the moment but to say he is our worst defender (or he is a crap defender) is being ignorant to say the least.

ut hey that still doesn't stop people from carrying on with it.

1.) Saying anyone on the kings is a bad defender is not an ignorant comment at all.
2.) Im not bashing peja im stating a fact
3.) You go ahead and go through all my posts and see if im "bashing" on any one players (id like to think im an equal opportunity criticizer) or simply stating their deficiencies.
4.) With what we have Peja does not work PERIOD..you cant defend the undefendable...noone is defending yao ming in a "who is shortest contest"...why..BECAUSE YOU CANT, Man on man peja is a FINE defender...i never once said he was bad...but if you compare him to what we have to defend with it boosts him up to a good defender..throw him on the pistons or Spurs and come back and talk to me about him being the defender you claim he is.
5.) Bonzi gives up ALOT of height to Lewis..Tmac etc..here:

Size he gives up.

To:

Lewis 5 inches
Tmac 3 inches
LBJ 3 inches

Ive seen even the best defenders have problems with allen.

 

[ParniValjak]

1.) Dont call me ignorant
2.) You need to calm down- im not bashing peja im stating a fact
3.) You go ahead and go through all my posts and see if im "bashing" on players or simply stating their deficiencies.
4.) With what we have Peja does not work PERIOD..you cant defend the undefendable...noone is defending yao ming in a "who is shortest contest"...why..BECAUSE YOU CANT, Man on man peja is a FINE defender...i never once said he was bad...but if you compare him to what we have to defend with it boosts him up to a good defender..throw him on the pistons or Spurs and come back and talk to me about him being the defender you claim he is.
5.) Bonzi gives up ALOT of height to Lewis..Tmac etc..here:

Size he gives up.

To:

Lewis 5 inches
Tmac 3 inches
LBJ 3 inches

Ive seen even the best defenders have problems with allen.

You are the first one that slipped a "%#$$" in there

Ok so how man inches does he give up against Allen and Redd?????? Why wasn't he given a job on them??????

You say its a fact, I would like it if you could actually prove that fact with some stats or data or circumstances that back up your facts. The thing is you can't because its not a fact. Its a myth.

Peja is proabably our best defender from our starters yet he is the one that cops a lot of the blame for his defence.

 

[JJ22L]

You are the first one that slipped a "%#$$" in there

Ok so how man inches does he give up against Allen and Redd?????? Why wasn't he given a job on them??????

You say its a fact, I would like it if you could actually prove that fact with some stats or data or circumstances that back up your facts. The thing is you can't because its not a fact. Its a myth.

Peja is proabably our best defender from our starters yet he is the one that cops a lot of the blame for his defence.

That says alot for a player on the kings. You go ahead and have Peja be your defensive weapon...ill see you in the lottery

I never said Peja is a bad defender...EVER...hes just not the messiah that you are playing him out to be.

And dont think im only bagging on Peja- because NOONE is an exception to the rule on this team i will openly criticize everyone, especially if they are NOT living up to their potential like this kings team is.

BTW: saying %#$$ does not make a person ignorant. Ad Homenim arguements dont apply here.

 

[JJ22L]

We know the kings suck at defense, but heres an example. Allens production last year vs THE KINGS (NOT PEJA) in the playoffs....just an example of why saying Peja is the best defender on the kings is irrelevant, since the kings lack good defense in the first place.

Game 1: 28 Pts 10 Rebs, 3 Assists
Game 2: 26 Pts 2 Rebs, 6 Assists
Game 3: 33 Pts 5 Rebs, 5 Assists
Game 4:45 Pts 4 Rebs, 6 Assists
Game 5: 30 Pts 2 Rebs, 6 Assists

 

[ParniValjak]

That says alot for a player on the kings. You go ahead and have Peja be your defensive weapon...ill see you in the lottery

I never said Peja is a bad defender...EVER...hes just not the messiah that you are playing him out to be.

And dont think im only bagging on Peja because NOONE is an exception to the rule on this team i will openly criticize everyone, especially if they are NOT living up to their potential like this kings team is.

BTW: saying %#$$ does not make a person ignorant. Ad Homenim arguements dont apply here.

I never said he is a messiah. I say he is a shooter and as such he needs others to play well for him to be effective. He is efficient scorer who is a good man on man defender. Nothing more, nothing else.

I am still waiting to see what exactly are you using to prove your fact

 

[ParniValjak]

And for the record...Allens production last year vs us in the playoffs....

Game 1: 28 Pts 10 Rebs, 3 Assists
Game 2: 26 Pts 2 Rebs, 6 Assists
Game 3: 33 Pts 5 Rebs, 5 Assists
Game 4:45 Pts 4 Rebs, 6 Assists
Game 5: 30 Pts 2 Rebs, 6 Assists

Thats with Peja "Bruce Bowen" Stojakovic assisting in the defense on him

I see you started following the Kings recently. Have you by any chance followed that series????? If you did, can you please tell me who was guarding Allen and what happened about half way through game 5 that had the fans here spitting chips as to why it wasn't tried earlier. And while you are at it, can you also dig up Rashard Lewis' stats from those series and compare them to his regular season stats.

 

[JJ22L]

I never said he is a messiah. I say he is a shooter and as such he needs others to play well for him to be effective. He is efficient scorer who is a good man on man defender. Nothing more, nothing else.

O.K. i got the impression you were saying he was of high notoriety on defense...i was starting to get angry...lol someone saying peja is a defensive machine is absurd.

We are on the same page then..but ANYONE can be a good man on man defender...it just takes hustle- The kings need some team defense, well Bibby REALLY needs to work on stop letting people into the lane. Otherwise i totally agree he needs others to play well for him to be effective. When i first read that Peja was gonna be one of our core...without a playmaker to for a lack of better words "spoonfeed" him his shots...i knew we were in trouble with him.

 

[JJ22L]

I see you started following the Kings recently. Have you by any chance followed that series????? If you did, can you please tell me who was guarding Allen and what happened about half way through game 5 that had the fans here spitting chips as to why it wasn't tried earlier. And while you are at it, can you also dig up Rashard Lewis' stats from those series and compare them to his regular season stats.

That wasnt to show man on man defense...that was to show that as a whole the kings defense is ineffective..and saying peja is the best defender on the team is irrelevant. ...Peja has 5 inches on allen...peja isnt slow...if he can just stay in front of allen hes a pain in the butt to shoot over.

 

[ParniValjak]

O.K. i got the impression you were saying he was of high notoriety on defense...i was starting to get angry...lol someone saying peja is a defensive machine is absurd.

We are on the same page then..but ANYONE can be a good man on man defender...it just takes hustle- The kings need some team defense, well Bibby REALLY needs to work on stop letting people into the lane. Otherwise i totally agree he needs others to play well for him to be effective. When i first read that Peja was gonna be one of our core...without a playmaker to for a lack of better words "spoonfeed" him his shots...i knew we were in trouble with him.

It just pisses me off that people pick on Peja's defence when we have much worse defender at other positions on the floor. If everyone was as good a defender as Peja on this team, we wouldn't suck on defence as much. We wouldn't be Detroit but we would be respectable defensvely.

For starters Bibby and Miller can't defend the side of the barn

 

[JJ22L]

It just pisses me off that people pick on Peja's defence when we have much worse defender at other positions on the floor. If everyone was as good a defender as Peja on this team, we wouldn't suck on defence as much. We wouldn't be Detroit but we would be respectable defensvely.

For starters Bibby and Miller can't defend the side of the barn

EXACTLY...that was the ENTIRE purpose of my arguement then we both got heated on each other. There is noone else to guard those people BUT peja because he is the only somewhat decent defender on our team (against stars with size I.E. Dirk...otherwise id go Bonzi for sure)...Who else would we throw on the other teams superstars...seriously? The young guys are showing alot of promise though, if garcia can learn NOT to foul, we got a good defensive bench.

And the word Fact was thrown in there as an obligatory comment...what "fact" did you see me trying to prove, and ill try to take a stance on it.

Edit: I fixed my Ray Allen scoring post to clarify things, and the post before it.