Marvin Willaims?

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Former #2 pick who never came close to the hype and coming off a fairly disappointing year with the Jazz. The Jazz just got the likes of Jefferson, Rush to go along with Hayward getting the bulk of the playing time @SF so I'm thinking we could do a potential swap for Jimmer + another piece to get him. While he's not the greatest floor spacer the season before this one he shot 38% from 3 point land and he gives us size/athletic ability while being on a 1 year deal (giving us flexibility). He can play defense and is a fairly decent finisher due to his athletic ability. Marvin + Luc Richard @ SF gives us size/defense and Marvin gives a bit extra scoring punch.

The Jazz could use Jimmer to sell tickets while they tank. Plus with the players we have I don't see Jimmer playing at all this season unless it's a blowout or some serious foul trouble. We could include one of our PF's which he have to many of anyway in the deal to make it work.
 
While he wouldn't be terrible in a hypothetical sense, looking at the roster as it stands, we need a pretty big time player at the SF as most of our starting line-up is average or slightly above average asides from Cousins. IF we plan on keeping most of the starting line-up from spots 1,2,4,5 (hopefully we pick up a good wing man for Cousins), it is essential that the 3 spot is a star or close to one (until McLemore shapes up to help further assist Cousins). Williams is not a star or even close to one.
 
Former #2 pick who never came close to the hype and coming off a fairly disappointing year with the Jazz. The Jazz just got the likes of Jefferson, Rush to go along with Hayward getting the bulk of the playing time @SF so I'm thinking we could do a potential swap for Jimmer + another piece to get him. While he's not the greatest floor spacer the season before this one he shot 38% from 3 point land and he gives us size/athletic ability while being on a 1 year deal (giving us flexibility). He can play defense and is a fairly decent finisher due to his athletic ability. Marvin + Luc Richard @ SF gives us size/defense and Marvin gives a bit extra scoring punch.

The Jazz could use Jimmer to sell tickets while they tank. Plus with the players we have I don't see Jimmer playing at all this season unless it's a blowout or some serious foul trouble. We could include one of our PF's which he have to many of anyway in the deal to make it work.

I'm not sure why and how Utah would tank. They have put together a decent team for the year.

Burke/Lucas/McNeal/Neto/Clark
Rush/Burks
Hayward/Jefferson/M. Williams/Evans
Favors
Kanter/Biedrins/Gobert

PG: Burke was the best PG in the draft and has many skills that can translate immediately to the NBA. He can penetrate, pass, shoot, and is a leader. Lucas is a serviceable backup PG who can give you 10 minutes here and there. He doesn't shoot well from the floor, but he is a good 3pt shooter.

SG: Rush is a very good 3pt shooter (41% career average) who has great size (6'6") and plays good defense. Since he missed the majority of last season (played 2 games) due to injury, we'll look at how he did in the 2011-2012 season. 26 MPG / 50% FG / 45% 3PT / 79 FT% / 10 PPG / 4 RPG / 1.5 APG / .5 SPG / .9 BPG / 1 TOPG. Is there really a glaring weakness in his game? He does everything well and is a terrific shooter. He is a great role player to put next to your star players. Burks will be a good option off the bench. He has shown flashes of his potential and has shown that he can contribute in limited minutes. He's got good size (6'6"), athleticism, and plays good defense. He improved his 3PT shooting last year (33% to 36%). He can give you size, scoring, rebounding, passing, and defense off the bench. What more can you ask for?

SF: Hayward has shown what he can do. With Jefferson and Millsap gone, it is up to him to step up. He is a good scorer, shooter, and passer who can be one of their go-to options this year. With Marvin Williams being out for the majority of the season due to injury, Jefferson will be the main guy behind Hayward. I don't see Jefferson getting more than 10 MPG. He still can contribute in a backup role. He has been a great shooter throughout his career. However, he did shoot 31% from three last year which was surprising. I think he will bounce back and have another good shooting year, but I could be wrong! You could do much worse as a backup SF (see James Johnson and Travis Outlaw).

PF: Right now, they just have Favors. Favors is a great talent. He is a superb defender, shotblocker, and rebounder who has great size, length, and athleticism. He plays within himself and within the flow of an offense which is evident by his career FG% (50%). With Jefferson and Millsap gone, it's Favors' time to shine.

C: Kanter will be head up the starting C job. Good size, strength, and athleticism for a center. He is a good defender and is able to average over a block a game. He's great on the boards, and with Favors as his running mate, they should control the boards on both sides of the court. Kanter has more promise than Favors when it comes to post moves. Kanter seems to be more smooth with his back to the basket and I think eventually he can become a go-to option on the block. He needs a little more refinement, but he has the skills to be a good post player. Biedrins will be the backup C. He gives you shotblocking, rebounding, and efficient scoring (doesn't take ill advised shots). You could do much worse as a backup center. Gobert is their third center, but I'm guessing he won't see the floor much in his rookie year.

Does this team have many weaknesses? No, not really. They could use a decent backup PF to help with their frontcourt depth and probably another serviceable PG in case Burke or Lucas goes down. I'm not sure how this team would perform poorly this year. They have many good players that compliment each other. They should find success this year.

Now back to the trade. It might make sense for the Jazz to take Fredette mainly due to ticket sales, but they also want to make their team better. I don't think they will give up a 7.5 mil ender easily. They will only have Burke, Lucas, Burks, Hayward, Evans, Favors, Kanter, and Gobert on the books for next year. That is all their core/young players. They will have a lot of cap space (should have at least 20 mil in cap space) to bring in a couple significant players.

We could offer something like Fredette and Landry for Williams at the trade deadline. Fredette boosts their jersey and ticket sales. Landry gives them their 3rd big off the bench and puts him on a team where he can be successful (unlike here in Sacramento where we will be pairing him with non-defensive bigs). All the other bigs on the team are good defenders (Favors, Kanter, and Biedrins) which should help hide Landry on that side of the ball. However, Landry will help with the lack of post offense from the frontcourt and give them a good scoring punch off the bench.

Williams should be back around the trade deadline and can help contribute at SF. Then he comes off our books next year and we can use the cap space elsewhere while we rid ourselves of Fredette and the questionable Landry signing.
 
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We apparently had interest in al Harrington which makes sense considering he's another undersized, non defending pf that used to play for gs/den.
 
I don't watch a whole lot of Jazz games, but I've seen a ****load of Hawks games, the last six years. No thanks on Marvin Williams.
 
I dont see the issue with Marvin on a 1 year rental. He's better than Salmons and I doubt he'd cost us more than Jimmer. You obviously don't pay more than that, but he'd be a good bench option
 
I'm not sure why and how Utah would tank. They have put together a decent team for the year.

Burke/Lucas/McNeal/Neto/Clark
Rush/Burks
Hayward/Jefferson/M. Williams/Evans
Favors
Kanter/Biedrins/Gobert

PG: Burke was the best PG in the draft and has many skills that can translate immediately to the NBA. He can penetrate, pass, shoot, and is a leader. Lucas is a serviceable backup PG who can give you 10 minutes here and there. He doesn't shoot well from the floor, but he is a good 3pt shooter.

SG: Rush is a very good 3pt shooter (41% career average) who has great size (6'6") and plays good defense. Since he missed the majority of last season (played 2 games) due to injury, we'll look at how he did in the 2011-2012 season. 26 MPG / 50% FG / 45% 3PT / 79 FT% / 10 PPG / 4 RPG / 1.5 APG / .5 SPG / .9 BPG / 1 TOPG. Is there really a glaring weakness in his game? He does everything well and is a terrific shooter. He is a great role player to put next to your star players. Burks will be a good option off the bench. He has shown flashes of his potential and has shown that he can contribute in limited minutes. He's got good size (6'6"), athleticism, and plays good defense. He improved his 3PT shooting last year (33% to 36%). He can give you size, scoring, rebounding, passing, and defense off the bench. What more can you ask for?

SF: Hayward has shown what he can do. With Jefferson and Millsap gone, it is up to him to step up. He is a good scorer, shooter, and passer who can be one of their go-to options this year. With Marvin Williams being out for the majority of the season due to injury, Jefferson will be the main guy behind Hayward. I don't see Jefferson getting more than 10 MPG. He still can contribute in a backup role. He has been a great shooter throughout his career. However, he did shoot 31% from three last year which was surprising. I think he will bounce back and have another good shooting year, but I could be wrong! You could do much worse as a backup SF (see James Johnson and Travis Outlaw).

PF: Right now, they just have Favors. Favors is a great talent. He is a superb defender, shotblocker, and rebounder who has great size, length, and athleticism. He plays within himself and within the flow of an offense which is evident by his career FG% (50%). With Jefferson and Millsap gone, it's Favors' time to shine.

C: Kanter will be head up the starting C job. Good size, strength, and athleticism for a center. He is a good defender and is able to average over a block a game. He's great on the boards, and with Favors as his running mate, they should control the boards on both sides of the court. Kanter has more promise than Favors when it comes to post moves. Kanter seems to be more smooth with his back to the basket and I think eventually he can become a go-to option on the block. He needs a little more refinement, but he has the skills to be a good post player. Biedrins will be the backup C. He gives you shotblocking, rebounding, and efficient scoring (doesn't take ill advised shots). You could do much worse as a backup center. Gobert is their third center, but I'm guessing he won't see the floor much in his rookie year.

Does this team have many weaknesses? No, not really. They could use a decent backup PF to help with their frontcourt depth and probably another serviceable PG in case Burke or Lucas goes down. I'm not sure how this team would perform poorly this year. They have many good players that compliment each other. They should find success this year.

Now back to the trade. It might make sense for the Jazz to take Fredette mainly due to ticket sales, but they also want to make their team better. I don't think they will give up a 7.5 mil ender easily. They will only have Burke, Lucas, Burks, Hayward, Evans, Favors, Kanter, and Gobert on the books for next year. That is all their core/young players. They will have a lot of cap space (should have at least 20 mil in cap space) to bring in a couple significant players.

We could offer something like Fredette and Landry for Williams at the trade deadline. Fredette boosts their jersey and ticket sales. Landry gives them their 3rd big off the bench and puts him on a team where he can be successful (unlike here in Sacramento where we will be pairing him with non-defensive bigs). All the other bigs on the team are good defenders (Favors, Kanter, and Biedrins) which should help hide Landry on that side of the ball. However, Landry will help with the lack of post offense from the frontcourt and give them a good scoring punch off the bench.

Williams should be back around the trade deadline and can help contribute at SF. Then he comes off our books next year and we can use the cap space elsewhere while we rid ourselves of Fredette and the questionable Landry signing.

Well you had me right up until you threw in Landry. Not that I'm in love with Landry, but I think any proposal has to have a reasonable chance of being viable. In Landry's case, I seriously doubt that they went to the trouble of signing him just to trade him away for a player that still hasn't proven his worth in the NBA. Fredette I see, but not Landry. I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on Williams. He's still fairly young, and a good athlete. Just not sure how much I'd give up to get him.
 
Well you had me right up until you threw in Landry. Not that I'm in love with Landry, but I think any proposal has to have a reasonable chance of being viable. In Landry's case, I seriously doubt that they went to the trouble of signing him just to trade him away for a player that still hasn't proven his worth in the NBA. Fredette I see, but not Landry. I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on Williams. He's still fairly young, and a good athlete. Just not sure how much I'd give up to get him.

Don't get me wrong, I highly doubt the FO is looking to trade a player who they just gave a 4 year contract to. In fact, they can't trade him until around December. My hope is that they see what a bad fit/signing he was and then they look to move him around the trade deadline (well I guess my first hope would be that he grows 3 inches and learns how to block shots!). Again, highly unlikely but one can hope!
 
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Don't get me wrong, I highly doubt the FO is looking to trade a player who they just gave a 4 year contract to. In fact, they can't trade him until around December. My hope is that they see what a bad fit/signing he was and then they look to move him around the trade deadline (well I guess my first hope would be that he grows 3 inches and learns how to block shots!). Again, highly unlikely but one can hope!

Yeah, I think I'd give up on that first hope. As far as fit goes, I'll wait and see how they use him. If the idea is for him to come off the bench, then I think he's a better fit than last time. How a player fits is usually determined by the coaching staff and the type of offense and defense they run. I'll certainly agree that he's not a shotblocker, and as I look around, I don't see one of those in sight. I'am somewhat curious why no one seems to covet Aldrich. And I'm not just talking about the Kings. No one seems to be beating down his door. Very curious!
 
I dont see the issue with Marvin on a 1 year rental. He's better than Salmons and I doubt he'd cost us more than Jimmer. You obviously don't pay more than that, but he'd be a good bench option

This was my thinking behind the deal
 
This was my thinking behind the deal
We're both too close to the cap; there's nobody you can package Fredette with to bring back Marvin Williams that makes it a good deal for us, except maybe Hayes. We could trade them Salmons for Williams, straight up, but I actually think that Utah comes out ahead on that deal.
 
We're both too close to the cap; there's nobody you can package Fredette with to bring back Marvin Williams that makes it a good deal for us, except maybe Hayes. We could trade them Salmons for Williams, straight up, but I actually think that Utah comes out ahead on that deal.

I'll tell you, Salmons was god awful last season. I had the unfortunate experience of having to grade him for most of the season, and it was truly a labor. Williams actually shot a higher percentage overall than Salmons did, and Williams is a legit SF. I'd trade Salmons straight up for Williams just to see what Williams could do. I know what Salmons can do, and he has no future in sacramento. Maybe Williams can prove he does..
 
I'll tell you, Salmons was god awful last season. I had the unfortunate experience of having to grade him for most of the season, and it was truly a labor. Williams actually shot a higher percentage overall than Salmons did, and Williams is a legit SF. I'd trade Salmons straight up for Williams just to see what Williams could do. I know what Salmons can do, and he has no future in sacramento. Maybe Williams can prove he does..

Agree that salmons has little to no value on the court but his low guarantee deal for the following season is a really nice trade chip.
 
Coming off the bench, though? I'd rather have Salmons. As bad as Williams is, he's even worse when he doesn't start.
 
I'll tell you, Salmons was god awful last season. I had the unfortunate experience of having to grade him for most of the season, and it was truly a labor. Williams actually shot a higher percentage overall than Salmons did, and Williams is a legit SF. I'd trade Salmons straight up for Williams just to see what Williams could do. I know what Salmons can do, and he has no future in sacramento. Maybe Williams can prove he does..

This. Williams still has that ability to ramp it up to get another contract the following season. Salmons provides very little value anymore on either end. He's a decent defender, but he's simply out-matched most of the time with how the position has developed with size and strength. He really needs to be at SG to have any value anymore.

As people have said, you don't trade anything more than Salmons or Jimmer/Hayes or Jimmer/Outlaw for him. I'd absolutely take a flier on him over Salmons though
 
Yeah, I think I'd give up on that first hope. As far as fit goes, I'll wait and see how they use him. If the idea is for him to come off the bench, then I think he's a better fit than last time. How a player fits is usually determined by the coaching staff and the type of offense and defense they run. I'll certainly agree that he's not a shotblocker, and as I look around, I don't see one of those in sight. I'am somewhat curious why no one seems to covet Aldrich. And I'm not just talking about the Kings. No one seems to be beating down his door. Very curious!

At the end of the day, he's a big who's averaged 8 MPG in 3 years and never gotten any minutes outside of garbage time. Teams aren't going to be banging down his door to acquire him
 
We're both too close to the cap; there's nobody you can package Fredette with to bring back Marvin Williams that makes it a good deal for us, except maybe Hayes. We could trade them Salmons for Williams, straight up, but I actually think that Utah comes out ahead on that deal.

How? Salmons is worse than Williams and you have to pay him 1 million next season when you get rid of him while Williams you don't have to pay nothing to. Jimmer + Hayes would be a excellent deal for us huge win if the Jazz are willing to do it. We get rid of Hayes contract and he can serve as a mentor to Favors and Kantar and get rid of Jimmer who is not going to play this season. Williams as big a "bust" as he has been is still more talented and has more potential than Jimmer/Salmons and Hayes all combined and it's a risk free deal pretty much.
 
Yeah, I think I'd give up on that first hope. As far as fit goes, I'll wait and see how they use him. If the idea is for him to come off the bench, then I think he's a better fit than last time. How a player fits is usually determined by the coaching staff and the type of offense and defense they run. I'll certainly agree that he's not a shotblocker, and as I look around, I don't see one of those in sight. I'am somewhat curious why no one seems to covet Aldrich. And I'm not just talking about the Kings. No one seems to be beating down his door. Very curious!

This is why I'm signing Landry off as a poor fit at this point. He is the type of player that should come off the bench and provide a scoring punch. However, he is a poor defender, doesn't have good size, can't block shots, and is nothing special on the boards. In order to compliment Landry, you need players around him that can do these things. Considering our cornerstone player (who should get around 35 MPG) is also not a very good defender, it means that Landry will most likely play the majority of his minutes next to Cousins. This is a recipe for disaster. Two below average defenders at PF and C and two bigs who want the ball in their hands to score on the offensive end is not the type of pairing you want. You could only play him when Cousins is off the floor, but then you just gave 6.5 mil to a player who will only get 13 MPG. Anyway you slice it, this signing is going to make our frontcourt defense weaker.

Landry and Cousins - Poor defending, no shotblocking
Landry and Patterson - Poor defending, no size, no shotblocking, weak rebounding
Landry and Hayes - Poor defending, no size, no shotblocking, weak rebounding
Landry and Thompson - might be the best pairing for Landry considering Thompson is probably the best all around defender we have at the 4 or 5, but he is still not a good enough defender to make up for Landry. Also, no shotblocking

Now, if your team has 2 or 3 defensive bigs (Favors, Kanter, Biedrins) and you insert Landry into that big man rotation, he can be incredibly useful, but putting him on a team where there is not even one solid defender at PF or C is setting him up for failure and setting the team up for failure.
 
How? Salmons is worse than Williams and you have to pay him 1 million next season when you get rid of him while Williams you don't have to pay nothing to. Jimmer + Hayes would be a excellent deal for us huge win if the Jazz are willing to do it. We get rid of Hayes contract and he can serve as a mentor to Favors and Kantar and get rid of Jimmer who is not going to play this season. Williams as big a "bust" as he has been is still more talented and has more potential than Jimmer/Salmons and Hayes all combined and it's a risk free deal pretty much.

I'm sorry, but if I'm the Jazz, there is no way in hell I'm taking on any long term contract (and when I say long term, I mean not expiring after this season) unless it's a player of value. Williams has value because he is a 7.5 mil expiring. Can I sign a player for 7.5 mil that is more valuable than a package of Fredette and Hayes? Hell yeah I can! Don't get caught up in the "player" value. Contracts and expiring deals hold more weight than you think.
 
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How? Salmons is worse than Williams and you have to pay him 1 million next season when you get rid of him while Williams you don't have to pay nothing to. Jimmer + Hayes would be a excellent deal for us huge win if the Jazz are willing to do it. We get rid of Hayes contract and he can serve as a mentor to Favors and Kantar and get rid of Jimmer who is not going to play this season. Williams as big a "bust" as he has been is still more talented and has more potential than Jimmer/Salmons and Hayes all combined and it's a risk free deal pretty much.
And yet, for all that talent and potential, Williams' career numbers don't look that impressive compared to Salmons. In fact, relative to minutes played, he looks rather less impressive. Plus, Salmons might not be any good, but at least we know he's not lazy.
 
And yet, for all that talent and potential, Williams' career numbers don't look that impressive compared to Salmons. In fact, relative to minutes played, he looks rather less impressive. Plus, Salmons might not be any good, but at least we know he's not lazy.

Salmons is one of the lowest energy perimeter players in the league.
 
And yet, for all that talent and potential, Williams' career numbers don't look that impressive compared to Salmons. In fact, relative to minutes played, he looks rather less impressive. Plus, Salmons might not be any good, but at least we know he's not lazy.

Not lazy? Half the time he looks like an unconscious Fish out there..
 
And yet, for all that talent and potential, Williams' career numbers don't look that impressive compared to Salmons. In fact, relative to minutes played, he looks rather less impressive. Plus, Salmons might not be any good, but at least we know he's not lazy.

All I know is that Salmons was terrible last season. I don't care what his career numbers are at this moment. He could be on the downside of his career, or, he simply lost interest last season. Or both! Either way, I would prefer not to endure another season with him getting 30 plus minutes a game. He turns 34 years old in december. I'm not sure how much he has left in the tank.
 
Ewww... Surely there has to be a plan for getting rid of Salmons that doesn't involve trading for Marvin F. Williams?
 
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