Marc Stein: Vlade in charge

[Dime Dropper]

Gotta disagree, kid ( ).

Believe it or not, I'm at the point where I'm happy when someone calls me a kid! I feel like mid twenties is when you have to stop being silly. I'm just not ready for that responsibility yet

I think it's pretty clear what Kingster means.

Absolutely, I don't doubt what Kingster is arguing. My point was that I think Kingster is more worried about Vlade's philosophy than he is his experience, but it's easier to attack his lack of experience in this role (and that's a somewhat fair criticism, I believe) than it is to attack his views on defense and big men. So I don't think Kingster is being completely honest about his motivations (sorry if this is offensive Kingster, but from years of interaction I think it's fair to say your views on what works differ greatly from what Vlade, so far, has spoken about. and I believe this is your main problem with him).

 

[whozit]

How 'bout this: Why don't you tell me why I should have confidence in the president of this organization who doesn't have the stones to fire an- obsequious suck-up back-stabbing toad who crashed last year's team? If Divac is so wussy or weak he can't clean out the trash of this organization, how is it possible he's ever going to bring excellence to this organization? Is Vlade Divac a guy who just gets along, or is he a guy who makes the tough decision to make someone unhappy by saying: You're Fired.

Is this team going to be run by the wuss and the back-stabling obsequious toad, or isn't it?

Let me give you another possibility. Just hunches, nothing more.

I would have to imagine that PDA reputation around the league is shot. Who would hire someone perceived as a cancer? He has abilities but maybe just like most college players his skills just weren't transferable to the next level. He failed in the big league (i.e. GM) big time.

Now Karl has worked with him before and perhaps as a favor asked Vlade to give him a chance to redeem his reputation. Part of leadership is knowing when to give a little. Keep him on letting him show that he is a team player in a support role. A favor asked and a favor given, working together rather than being seen as opponents. If he doesn't make the decisions and wields no power then he can be used at what he is good at, a support (i.e. role) player. Every team needs them.

Do I trust him? No, but then again he has been described from being a back-stabbing weasel to a weany "yes" man. In one of Voisen's (sp?) articles it was indicated Mullin was the defacto GM. Who and what he was, I don't know. I take that Vlade is letting him stay would indicate that he doesn't view him as a threat.

 

[VF21]

I take that Vlade is letting him stay would indicate that he doesn't view him as a threat.

In addition to that, I think the firing of Malone and departure of Mullin were enough changes for right now. I would expect Vlade and Vivek to want to let the dust settle, let George Karl get comfortable, and see what happens before they make any further changes.

 

[VF21]

I feel like mid twenties is when you have to stop being silly...

Hrm. At my age, you just don't care any more.

 

[rhythmless]

Believe it or not, I'm at the point where I'm happy when someone calls me a kid! I feel like mid twenties is when you have to stop being silly. I'm just not ready for that responsibility yet

You're on a website dedicated to talking about overgrown men who throw a ball around a hoop. You're arguing to strangers about what may or may not have happened in events that really will never affect your life. Silliness is for life, but I digress.

 

[Dime Dropper]

You're on a website dedicated to talking about overgrown men who throw a ball around a hoop. You're arguing to strangers about what may or may not have happened in events that really will never affect your life. Silliness is for life, but I digress.

This! But this is normal in society at this point.

I won't speak of my daily antics that are not for a grown man. I'm a child of 23, basically.

 

[IfAt1st]

How 'bout this: Why don't you tell me why I should have confidence in the president of this organization who doesn't have the stones to fire an- obsequious suck-up back-stabbing toad who crashed last year's team? If Divac is so wussy or weak he can't clean out the trash of this organization, how is it possible he's ever going to bring excellence to this organization? Is Vlade Divac a guy who just gets along, or is he a guy who makes the tough decision to make someone unhappy by saying: You're Fired.

Is this team going to be run by the wuss and the back-stabling obsequious toad, or isn't it?

Let me give you an alternative scenario wherein Vlade is not a wussy:

Vivek is really running the team.
I don't care what titles other people have behind their names, Vivek is the guy that every decision has to go past and get approved. (See the 2014 Draft War Room video for evidence)
Don't tell me you bought that whole "PDA and Mullin drove down to Vegas one weekend and convinced hesitant Vivek to fire Coach Malone, regardless of record."
So if Vivek came up with firing Malone, or if it was because Mullin whispered poison in his ear, weasely PDA just took the fall for it.
In this scenario, Mullin is gone, finally kicked out because he led Vivek to that disastrous decision.
This leaves PDA as a neutered weasel, still holding a job because he took the fall for Vivek, and because he might be able to provide numbers/contract experience (and because he probably has a contract and would cost $ if they fired him).

So when you expect Vlade to come in and "clean house", is he supposed to kick out Vivek somehow?

 

[bajaden]

This! But this is normal in society at this point.

I won't speak of my daily antics that are not for a grown man. I'm a child of 23, basically.

Nice to meet a kindred brother....

 

[Kingster]

Let me give you an alternative scenario wherein Vlade is not a wussy:

Vivek is really running the team.
I don't care what titles other people have behind their names, Vivek is the guy that every decision has to go past and get approved. (See the 2014 Draft War Room video for evidence)
Don't tell me you bought that whole "PDA and Mullin drove down to Vegas one weekend and convinced hesitant Vivek to fire Coach Malone, regardless of record."
So if Vivek came up with firing Malone, or if it was because Mullin whispered poison in his ear, weasely PDA just took the fall for it.
In this scenario, Mullin is gone, finally kicked out because he led Vivek to that disastrous decision.
This leaves PDA as a neutered weasel, still holding a job because he took the fall for Vivek, and because he might be able to provide numbers/contract experience (and because he probably has a contract and would cost $ if they fired him).

So when you expect Vlade to come in and "clean house", is he supposed to kick out Vivek somehow?

This just does't wash, IfAt1st. Under this scenario, Vlade is either a wuss or a fool. There is no middle ground. He can be the fool who took the job as "president" knowing he has no authority to fire, or the fool who took the job as president who thought he had the authority to fire and then later found he didn't. In the latter scenario he's also a wuss and fool because once he finds out he has no power to fire, he still hangs around in his weakened impotent state instead of doing the honorable thing - resign. I thought it was much too cynical to think that Vivek just wanted Vlade to glad-hand the fans, but if Vlade is a president without authority, he's is on his way down that road.

Unfortunately, this Vlade thing reminds me of Petrie and the Maloofs. We've seen this dynamic of the weak duck attached to incompetent owners before. It's not pretty.

 

[andjel]

This just does't wash, IfAt1st. Under this scenario, Vlade is either a wuss or a fool. There is no middle ground. He can be the fool who took the job as "president" knowing he has no authority to fire, or the fool who took the job as president who thought he had the authority to fire and then later found he didn't. In the latter scenario he's also a wuss and fool because once he finds out he has no power to fire, he still hangs around in his weakened impotent state instead of doing the honorable thing - resign. I thought it was much too cynical to think that Vivek just wanted Vlade to glad-hand the fans, but if Vlade is a president without authority, he's is on his way down that road.

Unfortunately, this Vlade thing reminds me of Petrie and the Maloofs. We've seen this dynamic of the weak duck attached to incompetent owners before. It's not pretty.

For some folks compromising and not flexing muscle is a sign of weakness (wuss or fool).
Might be mistaken, but you seem to lean toward that camp.

Right now there is absolutely no definitive indicators how much power and impact Divac will have.

Firing Gerbil few weeks before draft does not make sense. Despite his backstabbing flows, he seems to know something about number crunching and he was involved in scouting so far. Were not those concerns regarding Divac and his lack of GM experience? Is he supposed to get familiar with the whole new batch of draftee's or to find Gerbil's replacement in a few weeks? We had that already 2 years ago. Do you think that went well?

On the top of that, this franchise needs as much stability and smooth transitions as getting new players. Going nuclear to show who is the boss would be sign of weakness in my mind, cementing your own position at the detrement to the team. That would be move of wuss or fool.

Divac is not fancy picture on the wall, he does have strong oppinions and convictions. Anyone who followed him throughout his basketball career, war and it's effects on him and his former friends, knows that he is not shaping his oppinion and his acts based on what other people think or expect from him.

The fact that he is universaly viewed as a positive, team oriented fellow while going through many teams, countries and functions shows his examplary human skills and wisdom.

Will he succeed in this new position for him, time will tell, but wuss or fool he is not.

 

[Kingster]

For some folks compromising and not flexing muscle is a sign of weakness (wuss or fool).
Might be mistaken, but you seem to lean toward that camp.

Right now there is absolutely no definitive indicators how much power and impact Divac will have.

Firing Gerbil few weeks before draft does not make sense. Despite his backstabbing flows, he seems to know something about number crunching and he was involved in scouting so far. Were not those concerns regarding Divac and his lack of GM experience? Is he supposed to get familiar with the whole new batch of draftee's or to find Gerbil's replacement in a few weeks? We had that already 2 years ago. Do you think that went well?

On the top of that, this franchise needs as much stability and smooth transitions as getting new players. Going nuclear to show who is the boss would be sign of weakness in my mind, cementing your own position at the detrement to the team. That would be move of wuss or fool.

Divac is not fancy picture on the wall, he does have strong oppinions and convictions. Anyone who followed him throughout his basketball career, war and it's effects on him and his former friends, knows that he is not shaping his oppinion and his acts based on what other people think or expect from him.

The fact that he is universaly viewed as a positive, team oriented fellow while going through many teams, countries and functions shows his examplary human skills and wisdom.

Will he succeed in this new position for him, time will tell, but wuss or fool he is not.

What's the compromise? If the compromise is to accept the baggage of PDA, then what does Divac get in return? The right to stay on as "president"? If so, he just compromised his authority within the organization, a foolish and wussy move. Look, if you're hired to clean up the mess, you've got to have the authority and the willingness to take out the trash.

On this I totally agree with you:
"Right now there is absolutely no definitive indicators how much power and impact Divac will have." And that speaks to the namby-pamby nature of this organization. It's unwillingness to draw clear lines of distinction. This is a sign of a weak organization. One day it's one thing, one day another; one day there this faction, and then there's another. Weak, weak, weak.

The expediency of keeping PDA on for his negligible value for the draft is overwhelmed by the negatives. If that's what's going on in Divac's mind, that's just another signpost of weakness.

 

[bajaden]

This just does't wash, IfAt1st. Under this scenario, Vlade is either a wuss or a fool. There is no middle ground. He can be the fool who took the job as "president" knowing he has no authority to fire, or the fool who took the job as president who thought he had the authority to fire and then later found he didn't. In the latter scenario he's also a wuss and fool because once he finds out he has no power to fire, he still hangs around in his weakened impotent state instead of doing the honorable thing - resign. I thought it was much too cynical to think that Vivek just wanted Vlade to glad-hand the fans, but if Vlade is a president without authority, he's is on his way down that road.

Unfortunately, this Vlade thing reminds me of Petrie and the Maloofs. We've seen this dynamic of the weak duck attached to incompetent owners before. It's not pretty.

Preytell, just how do you know what powers Vlade has? Just curious how you seem to be privey to all the inside information and were not. Are you coming to this assumption because Vlade hasn't fired PDA, and you think he should be fired. Perhaps he should hire you as his counsel. If you know anything about Vlade, you know he's a person that brings people together, not a person that tears things apart. I have no doubt he'd try and get everyone to work together first. PDA might prove to be a valuable asset, if kept to his strengths. If not, he can get rid of him later. But with the combine and the draft coming up, now is a time to be organized. Hasn't there been enough drama for you this year? I know I've had enough. It would nice to come on the forum and have people arguing over a players ability, or who we should draft, instead of how dysfunctional the front office is and who should be fired. And its not that I disagree with getting rid of some people, its that I'm tired of the drama, the anger, the calling of names. Sometimes I feel like I'm back in highschool. Yeah, I know, if I don't like it, don't come on the forum and read it. Probably a good idea...

 

[bajaden]

What's the compromise? If the compromise is to accept the baggage of PDA, then what does Divac get in return? The right to stay on as "president"? If so, he just compromised his authority within the organization, a foolish and wussy move. Look, if you're hired to clean up the mess, you've got to have the authority and the willingness to take out the trash.

On this I totally agree with you:
"Right now there is absolutely no definitive indicators how much power and impact Divac will have." And that speaks to the namby-pamby nature of this organization. It's unwillingness to draw clear lines of distinction. This is a sign of a weak organization. One day it's one thing, one day another; one day there this faction, and then there's another. Weak, weak, weak.

The expediency of keeping PDA on for his negligible value for the draft is overwhelmed by the negatives. If that's what's going on in Divac's mind, that's just another signpost of weakness.

One important fact that your ignoring. They hired Vlade to clean up things, not you! Therein lies your problem. He's just not doing thngs your way. Sorry! Of course the organization isn't doing things my way either, but then I didn't expect them to. Why don't you come on down to my house. We'll sit on the beach, have a cervesa and chill. Let all the tension go and relax... All this stuff isn't worth getting that worked up over. It is just a game... I'll even put some shrimp on the barbie...What do you say?

 

[Spike]

One important fact that your ignoring. They hired Vlade to clean up things, not you! Therein lies your problem. He's just not doing thngs your way. Sorry! Of course the organization isn't doing things my way either, but then I didn't expect them to. Why don't you come on down to my house. We'll sit on the beach, have a cervesa and chill. Let all the tension go and relax... All this stuff isn't worth getting that worked up over. It is just a game... I'll even put some shrimp on the barbie...What do you say?

Man. I've been trying to get an invite for years!

 

[Kingster]

Preytell, just how do you know what powers Vlade has? Just curious how you seem to be privey to all the inside information and were not. Are you coming to this assumption because Vlade hasn't fired PDA, and you think he should be fired. Perhaps he should hire you as his counsel. If you know anything about Vlade, you know he's a person that brings people together, not a person that tears things apart. I have no doubt he'd try and get everyone to work together first. PDA might prove to be a valuable asset, if kept to his strengths. If not, he can get rid of him later. But with the combine and the draft coming up, now is a time to be organized. Hasn't there been enough drama for you this year? I know I've had enough. It would nice to come on the forum and have people arguing over a players ability, or who we should draft, instead of how dysfunctional the front office is and who should be fired. And its not that I disagree with getting rid of some people, its that I'm tired of the drama, the anger, the calling of names. Sometimes I feel like I'm back in highschool. Yeah, I know, if I don't like it, don't come on the forum and read it. Probably a good idea...

Have you been living in cave for the past year? This idea that we just don't know because we haven't been eye witnesses in the organization is ridiculous. Willful ignorance is what that is. If you don't know PDA's exploits by now, you have much reading and viewing (on video) of his actions to do. That we can wish away his toadiness because he can help in the draft is repugnant to me. PDA's established himself as a legendary suck-up back-stabbing toad. Do you seriously want to have someone like that in your organization? You've been is small business. You want him to be your right-hand man? Now there's a guy you trust. PDA should have been gone a long, long time ago. It speaks volumes to the organizations' weakness that he's still there.

 

[pshn80]

One important fact that your ignoring. They hired Vlade to clean up things, not you! Therein lies your problem. He's just not doing thngs your way. Sorry! Of course the organization isn't doing things my way either, but then I didn't expect them to. Why don't you come on down to my house. We'll sit on the beach, have a cervesa and chill. Let all the tension go and relax... All this stuff isn't worth getting that worked up over. It is just a game... I'll even put some shrimp on the barbie...What do you say?

I like your reply and further than that I like the beach, curves a, chili, and shrimp on the grill picture and if I could I would but can't. I think I would enjoy that conversation. Of course I would have to have a sombrero or big hat of some kind on that baja beach with baja.

 

[PBNJ85]

One important fact that your ignoring. They hired Vlade to clean up things, not you! Therein lies your problem. He's just not doing thngs your way. Sorry! Of course the organization isn't doing things my way either, but then I didn't expect them to. Why don't you come on down to my house. We'll sit on the beach, have a cervesa and chill. Let all the tension go and relax... All this stuff isn't worth getting that worked up over. It is just a game... I'll even put some shrimp on the barbie...What do you say?

#teamcevasa