Maggette/Wilcox/Bender on block?

Kings113 · Oct 9, 2005

Just interesting, I knew about Wilcox, but not the other two (though can understand on Bender):

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/29176.htm

I don't see the two Clips going anywhere, maybe Wilcox. Though the Clips need all the size they can get off the bench. Bender, who knows... I'd give him another chance unless you have a nice deal.

KingKong · Oct 9, 2005

Would love to see Magette in a Kings uni.

Kings113 · Oct 9, 2005

Ditto. I've seen only some of the guy though, I've read a nice deal about him though. Based on how little the Clippers have gotten on TV, and not being interested enough in them till a year ago or so. Obviously that'll change now that I'll have LP.

HndsmCelt · Oct 9, 2005

I'd take bender, but if there is any truth to the story that Maggette and are too dim to play in LA then they would NOT work out in Sac. The Kings offense requires players that look for the open man and move the ball.

Bricklayer · Oct 9, 2005

I saw that too this morning, but note that it was Viper Vescey writing it, and aside from spewing venom and cuts at everybody as normal, he's been known to just make stuff up whenever it suits him, so its far from gospel.

In any case, Maggette, presumably for Peja, would solve the contract issue. But not sure it would do that much for the balance issue we have now. Guess one thing at a time, but just swapping scorers wouldn't necessarily make us better this year.

Bender is another interesting name. But just don't know what to make of that. Know why Indiana might be willing to move him finally, but of course those are the same concerns why we might not want to go get him. Still only 24, and if he's healthy still a unique 7'0" bundle of potential. Corliss for Bender works financially. And Corliss of course had his best season under Carlisle a few years back. It would be a straight swap of solid for potential, and vice versa for Indiana, except it would also give them a second post player, albeit a tiny one. Would be a risk for us with all the injuries but if he stays healthy he might be able to fill that old Hedo role Rick liked as an incredibly tall, rangy OG/SF/PF/C that couold back up Peja and swing all over the lineup as needed. But that's the ambitious view.

HndsmCelt · Oct 9, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Ah the Bender for Corless deal would be sweet for the Kings! Bring in serious 7 footer with LOTS of potnetial to back up Bard, allows Skinner to slde to back up at PF and then Kenny to SF where he belongs... improves the back up at 3 postions!

As for Indy they loose a guy they are NOT maximizing and bring in a reliable and capible guy to cover for Artest when he has his ususal Leage imposed breaks.

Mr. S£im Citrus · Oct 9, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Not this year, but if we trade Stojakovic for Maggette, we could probably trade Maggette and Thomas for a complete player in the offseason.

Bricklayer · Oct 9, 2005

HndsmCelt said:

Its possible given our frontcourt system, but I don't think Bender is really a center. Nor a PF for that matter. He's got the height to swing up there, but he's basically a perimeter softie in a giant lanky body. If he could play Rick might love the versatiltiy and swing him big at times, but I don't think he'd be the answer as a Brad backup. Still an incredibly interesting player as a Peja backup though, and then moving all over the place as needed. But I think his career is at a turning point now. Either he gets healthy and blossoms and makes some team very happy, or he keeps struggling with injuries, never adds polish nor is able to contribute consistently, could easily be out of the league in two years (when the big contract is up). Not the sort of chance Petrie nomrally takes, but who knows.

funkykingston · Oct 9, 2005

HndsmCelt said:

I wouldn't look to Bender to back up Brad. Playing him at power forward is a bit of a stretch. Despite being a seven footer, he is a wing player, offensively AND defensively. He can't hold position in the block, though he is a good weakside defender with his length and athleticism.

If the Kings traded for Bender, they'd be getting a backup for Peja.

But I can't see the Pacers being interested in what the Kings would have to offer, unless it was Corliss and a 1st rounder. The Kings wouldn't give up any of the starting five to get him and the Pacers wouldn't want a bad contract in return. Maybe if the Kings had an ending K to dangle, but they dont.

Bricklayer · Oct 9, 2005

funkykingston said:

Outside of Corliss, the other thought I had was KT, as they may be looking for a new Al Harrington to provide PF depth. But as with any deal for Bender you have to think about that one because its a bird in the hand vs. two in the bush stuff. From Indiana's perspective, I've heard they are trying to shed contracts again (seems like an eternal problem for them), and obviously KTs goes forever, and Corliss's is just as long as Bender's (two years). On the other hand, both are about $1 mil smaller than Bender's, an both guys are proven contributors so its not dead money.

Still a maybe. Sort of thing that Bricklayer, GM, would certainly inquire about. But at the moment unfortuantely I am stuck being a GM emeritus, and not so sure its the kind of thing Geoff Petrie, GM would do.

P.S. Of course you can always expand the deal and get bigger and bigger and more and more unlikely -- specifically Indiana has another contract they wouldn't mind moving in Croshere, and of course there's always Artest. You can blow things up to KT/Corliss for Bender/Croshere or go mega with Croshere/Bender/Arteest for KT/Corliss/Peja. But while there is a certain amount of logic to some of those things, seem like more idle July proposals than likely ones come October.

Coach · Oct 9, 2005

I can't stand players like Jonathon Bender -- 7 foot slender gunners who are allergic to the paint and love to jack up 3's. What, did he have pictures of Brad Sellers and Matt Bullard on his walls as a child?

Maggette, on the other hand, I would love. IMO, he is easily one of the most underrated players in the league. There is a guy who is constantly taking the ball to the rack, as is reflected in his high number of free throws. I am surprised by the "dumb" rumors. The guy went to Duke. It's not like he went to Syracuse or Ohio State.

HndsmCelt · Oct 9, 2005

It's not like Brad plays the low post that well. With SAR at PF and Skinner at PF low Brad/Bender in the high post works. I hear the comnets about Bender bing a wing player and essentialy a SF traped in a 7 foot body, but he has good hands and seems sharp enough, I would say it is too early to write him off as a passing high post center with a shot that keeps the opsosing center out of the the Key. Bottom line is that Corless is high paid redundent tallent that has pretty much peeked, well woth the trade for a potential gem in the rough.

Mr. S£im Citrus · Oct 9, 2005

Coach said:

... Maggette, on the other hand, I would love. IMO, he is easily one of the most underrated players in the league. There is a guy who is constantly taking the ball to the rack, as is reflected in his high number of free throws. I am surprised by the "dumb" rumors. The guy went to Duke. It's not like he went to Syracuse or Ohio State.

Burn!

Coach · Oct 9, 2005

Bender doesn't even know what the floor looks like inside the 3 point line. I can't even imagine him at the elbow running the offense through the high post. Plus, he is either unwilling or unable to pass -- in 3533 career NBA minutes, he has a grand total of 152 assists.

Kings113 · Oct 9, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Bender is another interesting name. But just don't know what to make of that. Know why Indiana might be willing to move him finally, but of course those are the same concerns why we might not want to go get him. Still only 24, and if he's healthy still a unique 7'0" bundle of potential. Corliss for Bender works financially. And Corliss of course had his best season under Carlisle a few years back. It would be a straight swap of solid for potential, and vice versa for Indiana, except it would also give them a second post player, albeit a tiny one. Would be a risk for us with all the injuries but if he stays healthy he might be able to fill that old Hedo role Rick liked as an incredibly tall, rangy OG/SF/PF/C that couold back up Peja and swing all over the lineup as needed. But that's the ambitious view.

Agreed.

HndsmCelt · Oct 9, 2005

Chill coach, you MIGHT be right that Bender can't paly at the elbow, but how would any one know since Indy has prty well forced him into the last shot from the wings position. Not exactly the optimum situation for picking up assists. The thing with Bender is that he has been grossly under utalized and is still youg (24 yo).

I see what you like in Maggette but in the end he will never be anything more than a score first player that is lot's of fun to watch and maybe even valualbe on a team that feeds him, but when a guy's assist to turn over ratio is expressed in whole numers year after year you have to admit he is not the guy you want to see in an offense that demads lots of passing.

SacTownKid · Oct 9, 2005

I think Bozni and Maggette are too similar in the way they play. I like the dicotomy between Peja's style and Bonzi's. But if Peja were to leave I wouldn't mind getting a guy like him in return.

JonBoy418 · Oct 9, 2005

Maggette and Brand for Rahim and Peja...

======= pipe dream

VF21 · Oct 9, 2005

^^^Talk about premature.

I'd kind of like to see what SAR can do for us before I start packaging him with Peja or anyone else for that matter...

ovrush · Oct 9, 2005

Coach said:

I can't stand players like Jonathon Bender -- 7 foot slender gunners who are allergic to the paint and love to jack up 3's. What, did he have pictures of Brad Sellers and Matt Bullard on his walls as a child?

Sounds just like the Kings starting 3, except about 2 inches taller. Course Bender's shooting is clearly not in Peja's league.

Kings113 · Oct 9, 2005

Brad doesn't jack up threes, rarely does he. SAR doesn't either. Peja and Bibby are good 3pt shooters though. Brad's not allergic to the paint. Neither is SAR. Bibby and Peja drive to the basket a pretty good amount.

Coach · Oct 10, 2005

When he said "Kings starting 3" I think he meant "Kings starting small forward" -- in other words, the 3 position. That' why he said "except about 2 inches taller." And, unfortunately, I do think Peja has become that type of player.

Kings113 · Oct 10, 2005

Ah, okay. I don't think he really has.

Bricklayer · Oct 10, 2005

Kings113 said:

He's soft, avoids contact, and shoots threes, but he's much more disciplined and organized in his game. One of the probelms with a kid like Bender is that he can sometimes look completely lost out there, then spin around and do something spectacular, then look lost again. You're never sure of what game he is going to play, and neither is he. Common among young players of course, but still a significant difference from Peja.

Kings113 · Oct 10, 2005

From what I've seen, Peja doesn't just shoot threes (or usually), and I don't think he's the softest guy in the league or in the tops. Peja's not a noted slasher or anything (not a great athlete either), but he does go to the basket enough. His rebounding last year was inconsistent and not good for the most part. I'd say his injuries had a lot to do with that along with a good part of his year. I think he mentioned it as well a couple times. Would like to see him hustle more, like for loose balls.

Just my take.

Coach · Oct 10, 2005

Well, he probably is the worst rebounder for his size in the entire league. Jameer Nelson, for example, had more rebounds per 48 minutes. (Think about that one for a minute.) On that alone, I think I would call Peja one of the softest players in the league, if not the softest.

Peja also does not really get to the line all that often -- he is not even in the top 100 in the NBA in FTA's per 48 minutes.

He does, however, jack up 3's: 8.2 per 48 minutes. That is good for 13th in the league. And no question, he is an excellent shooter. Maybe one of the top 5 in the league. But he is such a wuss that it is exasperating. I can't remember the last time I saw him post somebody up. And I haven't even mentioned his disappearing acts in the 4th quarters.

Kings113 · Oct 10, 2005

Rebounding I already commented on, and yeah he isn't a very good rebounder.

Didn't say he was a great slasher or very aggressive. But he does go consistently enough. I've seen him post guys up sometimes, but he doesn't do it too much. Yes, the 3Ps are known.

I've seen him make plenty of shots in the 4th qtr, I've seen a bunch missed too though. I think heavy minutes and the injuries (all 3 or 4 of them) took a toll on him quite a bit.

Hopefully there won't be another season like this past one, which was up and down.

tyrant · Oct 10, 2005

bender and corey for peja and scoreless corliss

foretaz · Oct 10, 2005

ahhhhhh.....bender.....a subject near and dear to my heart...

first of all....to touch on one thing that was mentioned....bender has not been underutilized....hes simply been injured pretty much the last 3 years....

hes still incredibly raw....remember he came out of high school to a team that went to the finals his first year and was incredibly talented....

but he still played a bit....and played more and more the next 2 years when he wasnt injured...

and then as i said hes been injured for the better part of the last 3 years....

the pacers probably made a mistake with him...many became enamored with him as a 2 guard....and all the mismatches he would create....

hes an athletic freak, its true, however he cant guard 2 guards as is the case with just about any 7 footer....

bender is definitely not a center...definitely not on the defensive end....in sacs offense the labels are a bit of an anomaly so who knows...though his strongsuit isnt passing....bender is ideally suited to be a 4...albeit a bit of a slight one....but if hes playing backup 4s in this league he certainly should be ok....and the mismatches he can create are still plentiful....another 4 cant guard him on the perimeter, he will go right around them if they try....yet, if they back off, which they have to do, he will drain the 3....and bird for years has remarked hes never seen a better shooter....and this was when chris mullin and reggie miller were both on the team....

he has added mass so hes not as slight as when he came into the league...in fact he looks really good....his length makes him a legit defender, if he does lack some position defense skills....he is a great weakside defender and a great shot blocker....

im truly hopeful the pacers arent looking to deal him, and that hes finally healthy this year....all signs point to him finally being healthy...but then again, they have before....if he is healthy he would be a great backup to JO...

that being said, the majority of pacer fans dont share my enthusiasm....theyre frankly fed up with his inability to play for so long and his sizable contract for many years....and while some might be interested in the trade for corliss, i wouldnt be, and i tend to think the pacers brass wouldnt be either....with corliss, u know what u get....benders upside is far higher....and considering it doesnt do anything to help the pacers shed dollars-which is their primary concern right now-i dont see it happening....

now if there was a way for them to still get a 1st rounder from sac and then a guy like wilcox and enable them to shed some salary, then they would probably jump at the chance....but thats a lot more involved and im not sure it could happen....figure out a way to get wilcox(or something similar) and ur 1st rounder to the pacers and u could probably get bender...

LPKingsFan · Oct 10, 2005

Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
5.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 13.3 minutes
Incoming

Chris Wilcox
6-10 PF from Maryland
7.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 18.6 minutes

Corliss Williamson
6-7 SF from Arkansas
10.8 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 22.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: +13.6 ppg, +5.9 rpg, and +1.0 apg.

L.A. Clippers Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Corey Maggette
6-6 SG from Duke
22.2 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg in 36.9 minutes

Chris Wilcox
6-10 PF from Maryland
7.9 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 18.6 minutes
Incoming

Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes
Change in team outlook: -10.0 ppg, -5.9 rpg, and -2.0 apg.

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes

Corliss Williamson
6-7 SF from Arkansas
10.8 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 22.0 minutes
Incoming

Jonathan Bender
7-0 SF from Picayune Memorial (HS)
5.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 13.3 minutes

Corey Maggette
6-6 SG from Duke
22.2 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg in 36.9 minutes
Change in team outlook: -3.6 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and +1.0 apg.

Successful Scenario
Due to Indiana, L.A. Clippers, and Sacramento being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana, L.A. Clippers, and Sacramento had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Maggette/Wilcox/Bender on block?

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