Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)

#31
Helllooo, the NBA is filled with freak athletes, especially at the guard and wing positions. He’ll be clamped and abused on a nightly basis. He won’t be playing the Beijing Ducks every night lol.
You're going to look really foolish in a couple of years. All rookies struggle at first. You've bought into the "Doncic is a poor athlete" narrative hook, line and sinker. He's really not.

I understand you may want to make yourself feel better about us passing on him. But you should really refrain from being emotional when analysing players.
 
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#32
Unfortunately, unless Bagley becomes Amare Stoudemire, the Kings are going to get laughed at about the pick. Everyone already decided that Bagley was a bad pick. It's frankly just ridiculous and people refuse to give credit to the Kings if they do something right.
What have we done right that we haven't gotten credit for? Let's be honest here, we're a basement dweller for over a decade and have consistently made poor decision after poor decision. I don't know why you expect anyone to give us the benefit of the doubt until we actually prove something.

I like Bagley, he was the only player I was OK with taking ahead of Doncic, even though Doncic was my first choice. But this reaction is normal and it's fair. Bagley's going to have to prove he's the better player for us to come out on top. If not, we deserve all the ridicule we get.

It's too early to tell either way, obviously. But we're not victims here.
 
#33
Helllooo, the NBA is filled with freak athletes, especially at the guard and wing positions. He’ll be clamped and abused on a nightly basis. He won’t be playing the Beijing Ducks every night lol.
It’s not like the guy we drafted could guard anyone and my guy as well cut his right hand off
 
#34
What have we done right that we haven't gotten credit for? Let's be honest here, we're a basement dweller for over a decade and have consistently made poor decision after poor decision. I don't know why you expect anyone to give us the benefit of the doubt until we actually prove something.

I like Bagley, he was the only player I was OK with taking ahead of Doncic, even though Doncic was my first choice. But this reaction is normal and it's fair. Bagley's going to have to prove he's the better player for us to come out on top. If not, we deserve all the ridicule we get.

It's too early to tell either way, obviously. But we're not victims here.
That's the point. We're getting trolled game 1 of preseason because we're the #KANGZ when Doncic lit up a Triple AAA squad. Cool I guess?
 
#36
That's the point. We're getting trolled game 1 of preseason because we're the #KANGZ when Doncic lit up a Triple AAA squad. Cool I guess?
It’s subjective, but they are allowed that opinion because he looks special. It doesn’t matter who it was against or how many games, he looks special. He does special things. Bagley ofcourse looked garbage in SL

People are going to talk about first impressions and they are going to be moved by them. It’s like the first impression of someone you meet on the street, your going to intuitively have an early judgement, and IMO, most of the time they wind up correct

Our FO is not respected, already, and late to have been fired by many pundits/NBA fans
 
#38
That's the point. We're getting trolled game 1 of preseason because we're the #KANGZ when Doncic lit up a Triple AAA squad. Cool I guess?
Who cares.....the issue is the instant online global reaction to anything any of these guys do the first second they get drafted, let alone a summer league game or preseason against a team from China of all places. 20 or 30 years ago, there was no medium to watch these games and comment real time to a mass audience. We would have had a more balanced assessment, while admittedly less informed, of the players and team decisions at more logical milestones (end of preseason, all star break, end of year 1....etc). As a basketball junkie I love it, but gladly admit the instant analysis is over the top and not fair to anyone.

As others have pointed out, we just need our rebuild to work. Even if at the end of their careers doncic ends up the superior player, it’s hard to kill a team if the overall plan works — see drafting J-Will (and then Bibby via trade) vs. passing on Dirk and Paul Pierce in the 1998 draft.
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
#40
:mad:

This may hurt for a long long time.
Or it may not. The team made its decision. We will see in 2-3 years if it was a good one.

Why is everyone so hyper-sensitive all of a sudden? Are you seriously going to get heartburn every time Luka makes a good move on the court? I can't imagine living my life that way. It's only basketball, people. Luka may never end up being the player some of us thought he might be, either due to perceived athletic shortcomings or injury, or ???. And MBIII may end up being the best player in the draft. Or he may not. It's a crapshoot, and nobody will know anything for sure for several years, if then.

And I say this as someone who wanted the Kings to draft Luka. But hey, I also liked Tyreke as well. We see how that turned out.

Can we all please stop foaming at the mouth and spitting fire over every little thing and let these rookies get some experience before we proclaim everyone winners and losers? Can we see how the team comes together and plays? Why is there this rush to judgement?
 
#41
Unfortunately, unless Bagley becomes Amare Stoudemire, the Kings are going to get laughed at about the pick. Everyone already decided that Bagley was a bad pick. It's frankly just ridiculous and people refuse to give credit to the Kings if they do something right.

Early returns are on the side of the Mavs. This is a young kid with years of pro experience. Bagley should come in right away able to play but he has nowhere near the experience of Doncic. It's totally unfair to compare the two considering a) the circumstances Bagley is in from day 1 on a team with so many players at his postion and b) the pedigree Doncic has already along with being on a team that makes no bones about his spot on the squad. I still think both teams make it out just fine.
 
#43
Unfortunately, unless Bagley becomes Amare Stoudemire, the Kings are going to get laughed at about the pick. Everyone already decided that Bagley was a bad pick. It's frankly just ridiculous and people refuse to give credit to the Kings if they do something right.
I hope Bagley will become a better player than Stoudemire as we used a 2nd overall pick on him.
Not just a great athlete who looked good thanks to Nash. And we don't have Nash.
 
#44
I hope Bagley will become a better player than Stoudemire as we used a 2nd overall pick on him.
Not just a great athlete who looked good thanks to Nash. And we don't have Nash.
That's completely unreasonable. STAT has a career average of 18.9pts 7.8rebs 1.2blks 1.2stls. When healthy, he was a 25ppg scorer. You do realize that he put up 20ppg before Nash came back right? Then 25ppg in NY without Nash too. He's a great player who would've been locked in for the HOF if not for his very unfortunate injuries.

Getting STAT with the #2 overall pick is a gigantic win. You're being extremely unfair and tough on Bagley. Me thinks it has something to do with your profile pic. I also wanted Doncic, but I'm not going to put unreasonable expectations on Bagley.

It's like me saying I hope Doncic becomes much better than Paul George as we used the #2 pick on him. Uhh what?
 
#45
Stat was an average basketball player with elite athleticism.
I didn't put unreasonable expectations on Bagley, I just never been a fan of Stat.
 
#46
I was as high on Doncic as anyone at the time of the draft and was upset that we took Bagley. I took my time to sulk and now I'm over it. It's time to cheer for our boy Bagley.

Unfortunately, I think Doncic is one of those players that will look good from the get go whereas Bagley may struggle initially with the idea that he has higher potential in the long run. If the first part is true, we're probably going to see a lot of "i told you sos" around here even though the jury will still be out.
yeah agreed. Doncic is the most NBA ready player and thats what you get from playing in europe.

In any case, Bagley will turn out fine. It will take 3 years though and expectations need to be tapered
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#47
That's completely unreasonable. STAT has a career average of 18.9pts 7.8rebs 1.2blks 1.2stls. When healthy, he was a 25ppg scorer. You do realize that he put up 20ppg before Nash came back right? Then 25ppg in NY without Nash too. He's a great player who would've been locked in for the HOF if not for his very unfortunate injuries.

Getting STAT with the #2 overall pick is a gigantic win. You're being extremely unfair and tough on Bagley. Me thinks it has something to do with your profile pic. I also wanted Doncic, but I'm not going to put unreasonable expectations on Bagley.

It's like me saying I hope Doncic becomes much better than Paul George as we used the #2 pick on him. Uhh what?
This. Stoudemire was a multi-time all-star who overcame multiple catastrophic injuries to have a decades long NBA career. He was a 20 ppg/8 rpg guy before the leg injuries, back injuries, and fact that he had to wear goggles to keep from going blind during a game finally knocked him out of the league.

It's not like Nash turned the dudes who replaced Amar'e (Channing Frye and Robin Lopez) into all-stars either.
 
#49
I want to believe in Bagley so bad. He’s a King. He’s our guy now, but I find myself squinting harder and harder to uncover the potential that will lead him to becoming an elite player in this league.

- not a good shooter
- not a good ball handler
- not a good playmaker
- not good at creating his own shot
- not a good defender
- not a good finisher with his off hand

His good attributes don't really seem to add up to the value of a #2 pick.

- excellent athlete
- excellent motor
- excellent rebounder

Doncic's strengths define a much clearer path to stardom from my point of view.

This one is going to be hard for me. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't know if I can take another blown pick. I've been mostly okay with Vlade's picks as he's taken the player I've wanted for the most part:

Vlade's Pick / My Pick
2015: Cauley-Stein / Cauley-Stein
2016: Papagiannis / Baldwin
2016: Labissiere / Labissiere
2017: Fox / Fox
2017: Jackson / Giles
2017: Giles / Anunoby
2017: Mason / J. Evans
2018: Bagley / Doncic
2018: Traded* / Bates-Diop

Like Vlade, I've had some misses like Cauley-Stein, Baldwin (although he's looked better as of late), Evans, & maybe Labissiere, but I'm sitting here thinking that we would be a lot better off with...

Evans
Baldwin
Bates-Diop
Doncic
Anunoby

vs.

Mason
Jackson
Bagley
Papagiannis


However, a lot of that is dependent on Doncic vs. Bagley. Please, for the love of God, prove me wrong Bagley.
 
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#50
Don't worry, it's just October.
We can update in March/April when a player is resting for the playoff and the other one is padding some nice stats.
Anyone wanna bet?

I didn't want to take a shot at Bagley with the Stoudemire comparison.
I was trying to pointing out how Stoudemire has always been overrated (imo).
I'd be happy and more than satisfied if Bagley turns into a all-star caliber player.
 
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#51
Don't worry, it's just October.
We can update in March/April when a player is resting for the playoff and the other one is padding some nice stats.
Anyone wanna bet?

I didn't want to take a shot at Bagley with the Stoudemire comparison.
I was trying to pointing out how Stoudemire has always been overrated (imo).
I'd be happy and more than satisfied if Bagley turns into a all-star caliber player.
Calling Bagley Stoudemire is taking a shot at STAT not Bagley if anything
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#52
Don't worry, it's just October.
We can update in March/April when a player is resting for the playoff and the other one is padding some nice stats.
Anyone wanna bet?

I didn't want to take a shot at Bagley with the Stoudemire comparison.
I was trying to pointing out how Stoudemire has always been overrated (imo).
I'd be happy and more than satisfied if Bagley turns into a all-star caliber player.
Or the most likely scenario where both dudes aren't in the playoff race at all.
 
#53
Stat was an average basketball player with elite athleticism.
I didn't put unreasonable expectations on Bagley, I just never been a fan of Stat.
Stop it lol.

Stat couldn't defend a pinecone, but he's one of the best offensive big men in NBA history. Ju
I want to believe in Bagley so bad. He’s a King. He’s our guy now, but I find myself squinting harder and harder to uncover the potential that will lead him to becoming an elite player in this league.

- not a good shooter
- not a good ball handler
- not a good playmaker
- not good at creating his own shot
- not a good defender
- not a good finisher with his off hand

His good attributes don't really seem to add up to the value of a #2 pick.

- excellent athlete
- excellent motor
- excellent rebounder

Doncic's strengths define a much clearer path to stardom from my point of view.

This one is going to be hard for me. I really hope I'm wrong because I don't know if I can take another blown pick. I've been mostly okay with Vlade's picks as he's taken the player I've wanted for the most part:

Vlade's Pick / My Pick
2015: Cauley-Stein / Cauley-Stein
2016: Papagiannis / Baldwin
2016: Labissiere / Labissiere
2017: Fox / Fox
2017: Jackson / Giles
2017: Giles / Anunoby
2017: Mason / J. Evans
2018: Bagley / Doncic
2018: Traded* / Bates-Diop

Like Vlade, I've had some misses like Cauley-Stein, Baldwin (although he's looked better as of late), Evans, & maybe Labissiere, but I'm sitting here thinking that we would be a lot better off with...

Evans
Baldwin
Bates-Diop
Doncic
Anunoby

vs.

Mason
Jackson
Bagley
Papagiannis


However, a lot of that is dependent on Doncic vs. Bagley. Please, for the love of God, prove me wrong Bagley.
This pick obviously is going to define Vlade and always has been since we got lucky and moved up. Where I'm getting frustrated is people in the game thread already claiming we're "getting bit in the ass by passing on Doncic" after 1 preseason game against the Suns and Doncic looking good against the Beijing Ducks.

We'll see. Bagley still hasn't gotten to run with a legit lead ball-handler yet (again had very few minutes next to Buddy or Fox last night, if any at all) and he looks much further along on defense than anyone expected. Ayton got Bagley a few times, but most of his damage came against him working WCS over and over in the PnR. The Suns did great at putting Ayton in good spots last night; most of his work came off the PnR or where he hit a 15 foot jumper. I don't think I saw him once go to work by himself on the block or create off his own bounce. Which is totally fine; getting your rookie big man easy looks should be the priority.
 
#54
Stop it lol.

Stat couldn't defend a pinecone, but he's one of the best offensive big men in NBA history. Ju
Oh God, that's a poor league then.

Seriously how can you define one of the best offensive big men in NBA history a guy with no three point shot, no post game and average at best passer?
 
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Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#55
Oh God, that's a poor league then.

Seriously how can you define one of the best offensive big men in NBA history a guy with no three point shot, no post game and average at best passer?
Jesus Christ, it's like you think Amare was Thomas Robinson or something.

Until five or so years ago, very few bigs had a three point shot, Amar'e had enough of a post game to be effective, and not every big man has to be goddamn Sabonis out there to be considered good.
 
#56
Stop it lol.

Stat couldn't defend a pinecone, but he's one of the best offensive big men in NBA history. Ju


This pick obviously is going to define Vlade and always has been since we got lucky and moved up. Where I'm getting frustrated is people in the game thread already claiming we're "getting bit in the ass by passing on Doncic" after 1 preseason game against the Suns and Doncic looking good against the Beijing Ducks.

We'll see. Bagley still hasn't gotten to run with a legit lead ball-handler yet (again had very few minutes next to Buddy or Fox last night, if any at all) and he looks much further along on defense than anyone expected. Ayton got Bagley a few times, but most of his damage came against him working WCS over and over in the PnR. The Suns did great at putting Ayton in good spots last night; most of his work came off the PnR or where he hit a 15 foot jumper. I don't think I saw him once go to work by himself on the block or create off his own bounce. Which is totally fine; getting your rookie big man easy looks should be the priority.
He was ESPN’s most disappointing pick in SL. Did you watch any of that in addition to the 1 preseason game against the Suns?
 
#60
Jesus Christ, it's like you think Amare was Thomas Robinson or something.

Until five or so years ago, very few bigs had a three point shot, Amar'e had enough of a post game to be effective, and not every big man has to be goddamn Sabonis out there to be considered good.
He didn't say he was good. He literally said "one of the best offensive big men in NBA history". His words. And that's laughable, honestly.
He was productive, ok. But then, if I have to discuss just about numbers I'd rather go and check basketball reference than talking about basketball on this board.

Where I'm getting frustrated is people in the game thread already claiming we're "getting bit in the ass by passing on Doncic" after 1 preseason game against the Suns and Doncic looking good against the Beijing Ducks.
And where I'm getting frustrated is people judging Doncic for the game against Beijing Ducks.
I agree we have to wait to judge Bagley a poor pick, that's not fair because he just started to play pro-ball.
But most of the people are in love with Doncic because he did look good against a lot of the best NBA players in official games.
That's why people suggest we're "getting bit in the ass by passing on Doncic", not for his game against some chinese team.
Time will tell us more about this, there is a fair chance Monstars will steal Doncic talent.
 
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