Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)

#62
Anyone watching the Mavs and Sixers game? Doncic surprising me with the quick hands on defense. Having a hard time getting a step on NBA athletes though without a few picks to help him get free. His first step and step back are a little on the slow side. Probably the key to his success in the NBA is for the Mavs to run pick and rolls with him handling and making decisions. Very gifted passer.
 
#65
Not going to lie I'm super impressed by Luka as he was getting more comfortable he was at times going by (probably his biggest NBA weakness atm) two really excellent defenders in Simmons/Covington the kid has something about him Mavericks fully healthy could surprise a lot of people.
 
#66
Not going to lie I'm super impressed by Luka as he was getting more comfortable he was at times going by (probably his biggest NBA weakness atm) two really excellent defenders in Simmons/Covington the kid has something about him Mavericks fully healthy could surprise a lot of people.
We watched a different game the. lol. I saw him getting stone walled left and right on isos and taking wild step back shots that he still struggled to gain seperation on. His first step is really below average. He was getting free after receiving a solid pick and made good decisions when running p/r with the Mavs big men. He played excellent defense against Dario Saric though. Really reminds me of a taller Ricky Rubio. Gonna be a good 4th or 5th option on a playoff team. That Mavs team goes as DSJ progresses.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#67
We watched a different game the. lol. I saw him getting stone walled left and right on isos and taking wild step back shots that he still struggled to gain seperation on. His first step is really below average. He was getting free after receiving a solid pick and made good decisions when running p/r with the Mavs big men. He played excellent defense against Dario Saric though. Really reminds me of a taller Ricky Rubio. Gonna be a good 4th or 5th option on a playoff team. That Mavs team goes as DSJ progresses.
There's no doubt Luka is skilled enough to ball out in this league. The problem that we saw in his first actual NBA action is that he's not exactly a naturally gifted athlete and that he's going to have to really put the effort in in the weight room to get where he needs to go.
 
#68
We watched a different game the. lol. I saw him getting stone walled left and right on isos and taking wild step back shots that he still struggled to gain seperation on. His first step is really below average. He was getting free after receiving a solid pick and made good decisions when running p/r with the Mavs big men. He played excellent defense against Dario Saric though. Really reminds me of a taller Ricky Rubio. Gonna be a good 4th or 5th option on a playoff team. That Mavs team goes as DSJ progresses.
I watched most of the 1H and I agree with you. He needs to change his body. Needs to sacrifice bulk for quickness--kinda like what Nash did.

He used a lot of behind the back dribbles, step backs, craft to shake defenders, which he was successful with. But that's going to get scouted out. I don't rate players that need to zig and zag highly. It was one of the main reasons why I didn't see Fultz as a superstar. Very rare NBA players can play that way at a high level. JWill changed his game. Skip to my Lou changed his game. What separates most NBA players from college players is efficiency--of movement, volume of shots, etc--look at Andre Miller and his 20 year career. Dude could barely move the last few years, but he was still in the league while crazy athletic college PGs were in corporate America.

Doncic's vision, passing, and shooting will translate. Look's legit 6'8/6'9. He'll be a very good player. Sometimes all star. But there's no reason to assume that he's going to be a super star. Maybe.
 
#69
We watched a different game the. lol. I saw him getting stone walled left and right on isos and taking wild step back shots that he still struggled to gain seperation on. His first step is really below average. He was getting free after receiving a solid pick and made good decisions when running p/r with the Mavs big men. He played excellent defense against Dario Saric though. Really reminds me of a taller Ricky Rubio. Gonna be a good 4th or 5th option on a playoff team. That Mavs team goes as DSJ progresses.
lol 4th 5th option stop it man he’s already a wizard in pick and roll and was getting teammates open shot every time.

Not going to lie I'm super impressed by Luka as he was getting more comfortable he was at times going by (probably his biggest NBA weakness atm) two really excellent defenders in Simmons/Covington the kid has something about him Mavericks fully healthy could surprise a lot of people.
Ya they were going at it and Ben will be an All nba defender and Covington is elite
 
#74
I was a big time fan of Doncic, but the highlights seem like a lot of fluff.
Fluff because basketball comes out so naturally from his hands. He makes everything look so easy, very similar to Bogdan.
Not bad, but also not that amazing either
It's preseason, of course. Friendly match. But there are couple of hints he's above average. He sees what's happening on the court way early for a 19 yo rookie, I'm not talking about the "highlights" passes but the "normal" ones (00.54 is the example of a perfect timing pass).
 
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Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#77
Luka is going to be good, we can all see it and at 19 hes only going to get better.

Im happy with Fox who is going to have his own break out year and we are riding out with him. Vlade had his chance at Luka and didnt feel it was warranted so end of the day thats on him.
And so is Bagley so it's kinda dumb that we all apparently have to bash one guy in order to like the other.
 
#78
And so is Bagley so it's kinda dumb that we all apparently have to bash one guy in order to like the other.
I don’t see him bashing Bagley but a lot of people don’t give Doncic credit that he could get better. People see him as a close to finished product for whatever reason

Please explain how his highlights are a lot of fluff? Some of you guys are really starting to reach with your reasons for why you don't think Doncic is good.
Guess he’s not dunking and showboating, otherwise he’s running an offense like a 10 year get and draining 3s with ease
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#79
I don’t see him bashing Bagley but a lot of people don’t give Doncic credit that he could get better. People see him as a close to finished product for whatever reason



Guess he’s not dunking and showboating, otherwise he’s running an offense like a 10 year get and draining 3s with ease
The problem with him running the offense like a ten year vet is that he's also displayed the athleticism of a ten year vet as well. Now obviously a couple of years of an NBA conditioning program (with all due respect to Euroleague, their conditioning programs aren't exactly the best) will probably help him in that regard but my main concern with Luka was and remains to be whether or not he has the body and physical traits needed to be a consistent star at the NBA level.
 
#80
The problem with him running the offense like a ten year vet is that he's also displayed the athleticism of a ten year vet as well. Now obviously a couple of years of an NBA conditioning program (with all due respect to Euroleague, their conditioning programs aren't exactly the best) will probably help him in that regard but my main concern with Luka was and remains to be whether or not he has the body and physical traits needed to be a consistent star at the NBA level.
At his size his athleticism will be fine I think he can be like Gallanari but with elite vision, Gallo gets 16+ppg at his athleticism.

Athleticism and physical traits get overhyped too much especially when a 19 year old is that skilled. He should be better when he trims the fat though
 
#81
And so is Bagley so it's kinda dumb that we all apparently have to bash one guy in order to like the other.
No one said Bagley can't get better. Of course he can. Same as Doncic.
Right now it's pretty clear who is the better player between these two.
I'm not worried about athleticism at all. Ok, it's not bad having it. But talent, IQ and fundamentals are way more important. If I can have all together even better, it means I got Lebron.
Spurs won a championship against the Heat moving smartly the ball, with Miami running and jumping around trying to catch the ball like my golden retriever.
Dallas won a championship with a sub par athletic team as well.
On the other hand, I don't remember a low IQ team winning it all.
 
#82
My predraft concerns about Doncic have showed up in the preaseason.
  • Athleticism, with where he is at right now as a 19yearold, I would say his athleticism is below average for an NBA athlete. I've been saying it for a while now, but I think he added weight incorrectly at RM. He needs to slim down and rework his entire body under an NBA team. He looks on the sluggish end. His body should be his #1 priority this season.
  • Lack of shot creating, he doesn't have the wiggle room nor quickness to beat defenders off the dribble. Many of his shots are just catch and shoot because he can't get much scoring going.
  • Struggles to create any type of separation. If it's not a screen, he struggles to create space. He also heavily relies on using his body to power his way through. Look at this against Ben Simmons. Simmons is a great athlete for his size, but Doncic absolutely can't get by at ALL. This was a common problem even in Euroleague where he would just try to bully his way to the basket, but end up just having to reset. https://streamable.com/zo7kn
  • This was a great behind the back dribble, but he's going up against Mike Muscala who's able to keep up with him all the way to the rim. His load off was also pretty slow, and I'm surprised Embiid didn't block it. https://streamable.com/o1rlf
I think Doncic has looked considerably better than Bagley, but he is not without faults himself.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#83
No one said Bagley can't get better. Of course he can. Same as Doncic.
Right now it's pretty clear who is the better player between these two.
I'm not worried about athleticism at all. Ok, it's not bad having it. But talent, IQ and fundamentals are way more important. If I can have all together even better, it means I got Lebron.
Spurs won a championship against the Heat moving smartly the ball, with Miami running and jumping around trying to catch the ball like my golden retriever.
Dallas won a championship with a sub par athletic team as well.
On the other hand, I don't remember a low IQ team winning it all.
I don't think anyone's making the argument that Bagley is going to be better than Luka this year. Luka's been considered the most NBA-ready rookie to come into the league for quite some time so you'll find little resistance there.

I think the main push/pull where people tend to get caught up in arguments is whether or not Luka and less-than-amazing athleticism and his NBA ready game has as much room to grow as Bagley and his ridiculous athleticism and less-than-polished game. Though I was a draft-Doncic guy, I've always sorta tended towards the side of thinking that Bagley eventually becomes the better overall player of the two once their careers are all said and done.
 
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#84
I don’t think the FO can survive if Doncic looks substantially better this year. Even if Fox/Giles/Mason and everyone else turn up roses, it was just such a crucial decision that jobs will and should be lost at the end of this year or it remains the case (Yes, trajectories will be judged, don’t care about the have to wait thing)
 
#85
I don't think anyone's making the argument that Bagley is going to be better than Luka this year. Luka's been considered the most NBA-ready rookie to come into the league for quite some time so you'll find little resistance there.

I think the main push/pull where people tend to get caught up in arguments is whether or not Luka and less-than-amazing athleticism and his NBA ready game has as much room to grow as Bagley and his ridiculous athleticism and less-than-polished game. Though I was a draft-Doncic guy, I've always sorta tended towards the side of thinking that Bagley eventually becomes the better overall player of the two once their careers are all said and done.
Agreed.

ROY is going to go between Ayton, Doncic or Knox. They are the ones ready to contribute from day 1.

I'm not saying that Bagley will be the best player in 3 years, but winning ROY doesn't guarantee anyone of NBA stardom. Just ask Tyreke, MCW, and Malcolm Brogdon, etc.

Players and GM's need to be judged on the finished product, and that takes at least 3 years to really show, not the rookie season.

That being said, I think Bagley still has the potential to become the best player from this draft.
 
#86
I don’t think the FO can survive if Doncic looks substantially better this year. Even if Fox/Giles/Mason and everyone else turn up roses, it was just such a crucial decision that jobs will and should be lost at the end of this year or it remains the case (Yes, trajectories will be judged, don’t care about the have to wait thing)
Especially when we have nobody to put at SF
 
#89
I can't wait to see him in a full game. The highlights show quite a bit of court awareness and feel for the game.
That game he had like 5 more assists if teammates made there open shots. (Hate Lonzo but will give him credit) Doncic has the same type of impact as Lonzo that don’t show up on the stats. But unlike Lonzo he’ll still produce great numbers
 
#90
Agreed.

ROY is going to go between Ayton, Doncic or Knox. They are the ones ready to contribute from day 1.

I'm not saying that Bagley will be the best player in 3 years, but winning ROY doesn't guarantee anyone of NBA stardom. Just ask Tyreke, MCW, and Malcolm Brogdon, etc.

Players and GM's need to be judged on the finished product, and that takes at least 3 years to really show, not the rookie season.

That being said, I think Bagley still has the potential to become the best player from this draft.
Dont sleep on Giles bud