Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

[funkykingston]

All Kareem did his freshman year of college was average 33 pts on 68% shooting and grab 21.5 rbs in 21 games. And he was 18 at the time.

And be so dominant that they outlawed dunking.

I like Mo Bamba. I like a few kids in this draft.

But I find it hard to get worked up about one guy in particular especially since I have no say in who the Kings draft anyway.

My only hope is that they get this right. With no pick in 2019 and generally little success in free agency this is going to be the last chance to add a game changing player for while.

 

[Ozymandias]

Oh please. We are not going to - nor should we - build a team with the sole idea of beating the Warriors. Like it or not, most of us AREN'T the myopic ignorant fans you seem to feel we are.

I get it. You're sold on Bamba. That's cool and you might end up being right. You also might end up being wrong. Nobody knows at this point.

I think youre scorned or wounded, i think theres a lack of historical and longterm context thats actually far and away my main issue, too many comments that exist in a vacuum

its like theres this sense of dread that theres been busts before so its their duty to pick safely. I think the kings have done a terrible job over the years and have trampled over their fans hopes and expectations and it's led to this where people are exxagerating percieved warts well beyond reason and in turn are looking for a hero or better yet savior instead of a well rounded team.

Only thing im mad about is how people cant seem to wrap their minds around why mo is, hass been and will be efficient on offense. How many times are my responses to these erroneous claims going to go unresponded to? Theres a colloquialism about children who throw stones then hide their hands im reminded of. I await a more thorough debunking attempt with bated breath, ones ive seen thus far don't cut the mustard.

 

[ockingsfan]

At the end of last year hayward was out and rudy led a trouncing against the warriors, they hate playing the jazz and rudy and always give em lots of credit postgame. Tell us thho how a dominant C is more of a matchup issue? Beat them trading 2's for 3's?

GSW swept Utah last year in the playoffs with Gobert. And this year Utah couldn't beat Houston with Gobert and Mitchell.

Also, where does GSW say they hate playing Utah and Gobert? I would think they have more respect for Houston, than a team they swept.

If your standard for success is to stop KD and Klay, then I'm sorry, but Utah couldn't do it with Gobert, what makes you think that Mo would fair any better against the GSW and Houstons of the NBA?

 

[hrdboild]

I think youre scorned or wounded, i think theres a lack of historical and longterm context thats actually far and away my main issue, too many comments that exist in a vacuum

its like theres this sense of dread that theres been busts before so its their duty to pick safely. I think the kings have done a terrible job over the years and have trampled over their fans hopes and expectations and it's led to this where people are exxagerating percieved warts well beyond reason and in turn are looking for a hero instead of a well rounded team.

Only thing im mad about is how people cant seem to wrap their minds around why mo is, hass been and will be efficient on offense. How many times are my responses to these erroneous claims going to go unresponded too. Theres a colloquialism about children who throw stones then hide their hands im reminded of. I await a more thorough debunking attempt with bated breath, ones ive seen thus far don't cut the mustard.

I like Mo Bamba a lot too.... I think he's a lot more talented on offense than he typically gets credit for and I would have no problem with him being the #2 pick if that's how the front office chooses to go. I like Luka more but there's no sure things here and it's easy to see what the potential is with Bamba. You might get more detailed responses if you post your comments about Bamba in the Bamba thread instead of the Luka Doncic one -- but in general the sentiment on this particular board has been mostly negative toward Bamba all year. I tried to dispel some of that early on but I've just accepted that's how it's going to be here. Can't win 'em all. And I don't see him as a very likely pick for us anyway.

 

[Blob]

GSW swept Utah last year in the playoffs with Gobert. And this year Utah couldn't beat Houston with Gobert and Mitchell.

If your standard for the Kings is stop KD and Klay, then I'm sorry but Utah couldn't do it with Gobert, what makes you think that Mo would fair any better against the GSW and Houstons of the NBA?

I remember Rudy coming into the league. I thought he was going to be a bust. He was so awkward. I am not exaggerating when I say he was cringe worthy. Just running up and down the floor looked arduous for him! Bamba is so much better coming into the league. There's a real basketball player there who happens to possess an unbelievable physical profile with unbelievable sprint time. He can make the three and he happened to be eligible for an Ivy League school! This kid Ozy is perhaps a little manic in his tone but he makes valid points. Meanwhile we are making cross country trips to entertain this dude with a jacked back and no credentials.

 

[Ozymandias]

GSW swept Utah last year in the playoffs with Gobert. And this year Utah couldn't beat Houston with Gobert and Mitchell.

If your standard for the Kings is stop KD and Klay, then I'm sorry but Utah couldn't do it with Gobert, what makes you think that Mo would fair any better against the GSW and Houstons of the NBA?

Utah beat Houston on their homefloor without their starting PG in game 2 in one of the most thrilling games of the playoffs. Do you hear utah's homecrowd? Their rabid. For years they built around Hayward he left them at the altar and Rudy helped carry them further than hayward ever didTheir fans love the team, they love rudy. I was a jazz fan i patrolled jazzfanz.Com for years. Those fans have a team their proud of.Gobert and Mitchell are major building nlocks.

Mo is a potential nightmare matchup, he's a 1 man anti smallball army. And its not like the kings will have another shot at a player like this anytime soon.

 

[Telemachus]

I like Mo Bamba a lot too.... I think he's a lot more talented on offense than he typically gets credit for and I would have no problem with him being the #2 pick if that's how the front office chooses to go. I like Luka more but there's no sure things here and it's easy to see what the potential is with Bamba. You might get more detailed responses if you post your comments about Bamba in the Bamba thread instead of the Luka Doncic one -- but in general the sentiment on this particular board has been mostly negative toward Bamba all year. I tried to dispel some of that early on but I've just accepted that's how it's going to be here. Can't win 'em all. And I don't see him as a very likely pick for us anyway.

I don't know that most here don't like Bamba, I think most just like many of the other top players more. I don't think you can look at Bamba's potential without looking at his floor. To me, his floor is a little more athletic Manute Bol. Now he will likely be better than that, but most thought the same about Bol.

 

[ockingsfan]

Mo is a potential nightmare matchup, he's a 1 man anti smallball army. And its not like the kings will have another shot at a player like this anytime soon.

Utah was swept by GSW last year. Utah lost to small ball Houston in 5 games this year.

Having a Gobert-esq big doesn't really scream small ball neutralizer to.

BTW, a shot blocker is neutralized when playing a perimeter oriented and good 3 point shooting team.

If the shot blocker is standing in the lane to block shots and the other team is launching 3 pointers and 15-20 foot jumpers, the shot blocker can not do anything to block the shot. Against a good 3 point shooting team, the shot blocker essentially becomes a rebounder only.

A shot blocker like Gobert and Bamba can't block a 3 point shot in the lane, that would be goal tending.

 

[hrdboild]

If I get time later I might go back and time stamp these with key points, but it's fun to watch the whole game and see what happens in context. The play at 20:13 in the second video is particularly fun -- the result was a turnover, unfortunately, as the pass was a little off target but the audacity to even attempt that move is impressive!

 

[funkykingston]

Only thing im mad about is how people cant seem to wrap their minds around why mo is, hass been and will be efficient on offense. How many times are my responses to these erroneous claims going to go unresponded to? Theres a colloquialism about children who throw stones then hide their hands im reminded of. I await a more thorough debunking attempt with bated breath, ones ive seen thus far don't cut the mustard.

Is there anyone actually arguing that Bamba won't be efficient on offense?

That's not really the issue. Can he be the best player on a winning team? That's a better question.

The Kings don't have a star player or a go-to scorer. Bamba is an ideal piece for a team like the Celtics. Is he a franchise player for the Kings?

Honest question, who do you think the Jazz believe is more critical for their success moving forward - Mitchell or Gobert?

I like Bamba, but I think it's likely that he's an elite role player as a rim protector, rebounder and third/fourth option on offense.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

All Kareem did his freshman year of college was average 33 pts on 68% shooting and grab 21.5 rbs in 21 games. And he was 18 at the time.

So, I'm not sure where you're getting this. Kareem didn't play his freshman year in college, because at the time freshmen weren't eligible. And those numbers don't match his sophomore year. Are those numbers from Kareem's JV squad?

 

[Telemachus]

So, I'm not sure where you're getting this. Kareem didn't play his freshman year in college, because at the time freshmen weren't eligible. And those numbers don't match his sophomore year. Are those numbers from Kareem's JV squad?

On Basketball-Reference it is listed as his first year at UCLA. I know that freshmen red-shirted back then, but did sometimes play (only 21 games).
We can go with his sophomore year (age 19) just as easily. He scored 29 pts on 67% shooting and grabbed 15.5 rbs.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

On Basketball-Reference it is listed as his first year at UCLA. I know that freshmen red-shirted back then, but did sometimes play (only 21 games).
We can go with his sophomore year (age 19) just as easily. He scored 29 pts on 67% shooting and grabbed 15.5 rbs.

Interesting. His pro page lists his JV year (in gray, but it's subtle). His college page doesn't list it.

Either way, I wasn't worried about anything but the accuracy point. Kareem was awesome, I supremely doubt Bamba will turn out to be that good, I mean talk about a best case scenario!

Also: yes, I see that a bunch of this thread needs to get dumped into the Bamba thread...not even gonna try from my phone...

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Bamba fans:

Bamba
Ceiling: Kareem w/ a 3-pter
Floor: Gobert w/ a 3-pter

Doncic
Ceiling: Hayward (but when he first came into the league, not the current All-Star version)
Floor: Dejan Bodiroga

 

[Ozymandias]

Is there anyone actually arguing that Bamba won't be efficient on offense?

That's not really the issue. Can he be the best player on a winning team? That's a better question.

The Kings don't have a star player or a go-to scorer. Bamba is an ideal piece for a team like the Celtics. Is he a franchise player for the Kings?

Honest question, who do you think the Jazz believe is more critical for their success moving forward - Mitchell or Gobert?

I like Bamba, but I think it's likely that he's an elite role player as a rim protector, rebounder and third/fourth option on offense.

Ye several people have attempted to marginalize his offense like he's a nonfactor. Its crazy.

I think mo is a franchise big 100% conviction. He posseses the psychological profile of the greats, he will not fail, only injury can slow him down..Im 30 and have followed recruiting and this draft stuff since ima teenager and theres not a speck of doubt in my mind he's one of the absolute best bigs ive seen, and im a kentucky fan too, i followed the anthony davis story. He can help the kings. Bamba is an ideal piece for pretty much every team tbh............... He could be the best C in franchise history as Rudy is for Utah. Mo is and could be many of the things Cousins never was.... Im a big DMC fan too.

Gobert is one of the best ive ever seen. i thiNk extremely highly of him and for what its worth i thought he was a lottery talent in that draft. I called trey burke over dennis schroder an unforgivable blunder but i said utah saved their draft trading for rudy on a forum night of that draft. Mo is further along than rudy at the same stage, he's got a lot of work to do to catchup. Mo's a way better shooter capable of yao ft %’s.

Rudy is the more crucial component. He is the rising tide that raises all boats. He is the anchor to their league best defense. Has been robbed of 2 DPOY's IMO. Joe ingles is out there causing issues because he's got the long arm of the law behind him.

Mo is not a roleplayer as he bulks up his fg% Will be very high and a team with continuity will look to find him for lots of ez buckets.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Honest question, who do you think the Jazz believe is more critical for their success moving forward - Mitchell or Gobert?

I like Bamba, but I think it's likely that he's an elite role player as a rim protector, rebounder and third/fourth option on offense.

I actually think this is a closer issue than many here think. Curious what our resident Jazz fans have to say. From where I sit, the fact that Utah was able to still play so well despite losing Hayward has as much to do with Gobert keeping their defense elite (#2 in defensive rating this season, #3 last season) than it was finding a steal in Mitchell to replace Hayward's offense. Gobert exceeds Mitchell in net rating, real-plus minus, and win shares as well. Gobert also led the team in win shares three of the last four seasons. I'd say it's easier to imagine the Jazz maintaining success at their level without Mitchell than it is without Gobert.

So, if I was sure Bamba would be Gobert or better, I absolutely would consider him at #2. But I'm not convinced of that projection. So, I favor Doncic.

 

[Ozymandias]

Also: yes, I see that a bunch of this thread needs to get dumped into the Bamba thread...

All of these threads should just be dumped into one huge following potential draftees thread tbh. The nature lf these conversations are like a hyperlink movie i dunno how compartmentalizing them makes more sense. I didnt mean to derail.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Its just bgeyond absurd the standards people have here for mo. It's like you fault him for not having proper competition to go up against or for being not fully developed at 20........ Name me anyone who was that size and age and had great ability to hold post position..... I'll wait..... Not Kareem, the nba's all time leading scorer didnt measure very well in this regard, all the teams knew to play him physical, he turned out ok.

99% of the competition mo's been up against he can just jump over and snatch the ball, thats how it'll look if thyey put draymond on him and mo is such a freak he'll be able to make it look ez vs NBA athletes too.

I hope you see the irony of the bolded part. It's literally what you have been saying about almost all the prospects. No need to force feed us your opinions, we can think for ourselves.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

All of these threads should just be dumped into one huge following potential draftees thread tbh. The nature lf these conversations are like a hyperlink movie i dunno how compartmentalizing them makes more sense. I didnt mean to derail.

No biggie, I'm not really much of one for "thread purity", but we're trying, I guess. It's all fine and good when the discussion is centered around one player, but it's pretty much inevitable that comparisons begin and then trying to keep stuff straight is nearly impossible. Oh well, c'est la vie.

 

[Ozymandias]

I hope you see the irony of the bolded part. It's literally what you have been saying about almost all the prospects. No need to force feed us your opinions, we can think for ourselves.

Im not a salesman. I dont care to convince you, thats not my intent. Im here for discussion.

Huh? Quote me . What have i been saying about all the prospects? I think i do a pretty good job discerning between them..

I havent even really scratched the surface on the competition topic tbh, or thats how i feel.

 

[Fear the Putin]

You know...we can argue about potential, physical attributes, current abilities, and so forth. What we sometimes overlook is the ability to be aware at all times on the court. To constantly strategize, to constantly think outside the box and be analytical on the court. Every sport is a game of inches, centimeters, and split second decisions that can alter the game, or even the series as we just saw with the Cavaliers in Game 1. Doncic's intelligence and basketball IQ is unreal for a 19 year-old. Generally, athletes develop that wisdom over time, but with the baseline that Doncic is working with, his ability to simply control games is what will be invaluable for the team he lands on.

He will get stronger, smarter, craftier, and from all accounts, his great work ethic will only become even better.

I am simply tired of incompetence on the floor. The "me first" that has plagued our scrubs and the inability to think a couple of steps ahead. Yes the Warriors are amazingly talented, but they are all smart basketball players ahead of anything. I want players who are mentally strong, who can outwit their opponents, outmaneuver them by thinking ahead. The game of basketball is so much more than just pure athleticism. You have to win the mental game before you get anywhere.

 

[roasthawg]

Is there anyone actually arguing that Bamba won't be efficient on offense?

That's not really the issue. Can he be the best player on a winning team? That's a better question.

The Kings don't have a star player or a go-to scorer. Bamba is an ideal piece for a team like the Celtics. Is he a franchise player for the Kings?

Honest question, who do you think the Jazz believe is more critical for their success moving forward - Mitchell or Gobert?

I like Bamba, but I think it's likely that he's an elite role player as a rim protector, rebounder and third/fourth option on offense.

Yeah, I'd probably take Mitchell over Gobert. It's close though. A couple of questions though... Is there a Donovan Mitchell available to us in this draft? And does Bamba have a better than decent chance to be even better than Gobert?

 

[Sac.Kings]

Im not a salesman. I dont care to convince you, thats not my intent. Im here for discussion.

Huh? Quote me . What have i been saying about all the prospects? I think i do a pretty good job discerning between them..

I havent even really scratched the surface on the competition topic tbh, or thats how i feel.

Oh no? There's a post from you just 5 or 6 spots up stating that Bamba is a franchise big man because you don't have a shred of doubt that he is one and because his mentality is that of a HOF level player. Mind you this is the Dončić thread and not the Bamba one, which you have already filled to the brim with your expectations of him. All this is fine and I'm not offended in the least, but don't force feed me Bamba in an unrelated thread. You like Bamba and think he's gonna be a franchise big. I get it, I'm sure we all do by now. Some of us just don't feel the same way. I just think there's better talent to be had at 2 and better/more multidimensional players available. And yes I think Dončić is one of them.

 

[funkykingston]

Yeah, I'd probably take Mitchell over Gobert. It's close though. A couple of questions though... Is there a Donovan Mitchell available to us in this draft? And does Bamba have a better than decent chance to be even better than Gobert?

I suppose it depends on what you mean by a Donovan Mitchell. The closest player in terms of style, size, game etc in this draft is probably Lonnie Walker but I don't see him having anywhere near that type of impact as a rookie. But if you mean a player that will have that level of impact on a team as a rookie then I could see a few guys that could change a team culture almost immediately.

COULD Bamba be better than Gobert? Sure.

He's quicker, much more fluid, and more productive at the same stage while also showing good shooting mechanics.

What impressed me most with Gobert was how hard he worked to improve. Bamba certainly has more potential, it really just depends on how bad he wants it.

 

[Reverend]

If I get time later I might go back and time stamp these with key points, but it's fun to watch the whole game and see what happens in context. The play at 20:13 in the second video is particularly fun -- the result was a turnover, unfortunately, as the pass was a little off target but the audacity to even attempt that move is impressive!

That was impressive, thanks for sharing. I’ve been going back and forth between prospects from Luka to Porter to Bagley, but I think I’m back on Luka. He is just simply the best playmaker in the draft and would fit in and be productive plus make our guys better from day one.

I admit, the fear of missing out on another Donovan Mitchell by not swinging for the fences with Bagley or Porter still lingers but I think Luka is getting nit picked probably more than any player in the draft and despite it he’s still projected by most to go 2nd. I’ve gotta believe there’s something to be said about that.

 

[Blob]

I think Luka is getting nit picked probably more than any player in the draft and despite it he’s still projected by most to go 2nd. I’ve gotta believe there’s something to be said about that.

He may be the 2nd best player in the draft, but picking a player based on a consensus is one of the worst ways to make a decision. It is a way to defer responsibility and accountability so if the decision goes awry you can absolve yourself of blame. I have made a nice living by taking contrarian position against other Forex traders. Now don't do the opposite to be a contrarian. But if everybody is thinking one way, I think you should be more skeptical than sold. The opinion of the masses is often the easiest and simplest, not right. And here's the thing too, Luka is a good story. He has movie star looks, he has the wry smile, his rise has been meteoric, he plays a style of game the endears him to fans. This is good story. Everyone loves a good story. They want to be part of it. This stirs emotions. Emotions are then used to rationalize decisions. This is how you make mistakes.

 

[206Fan]

That was impressive, thanks for sharing. I’ve been going back and forth between prospects from Luka to Porter to Bagley, but I think I’m back on Luka. He is just simply the best playmaker in the draft and would fit in and be productive plus make our guys better from day one.

I admit, the fear of missing out on another Donovan Mitchell by not swinging for the fences with Bagley or Porter still lingers but I think Luka is getting nit picked probably more than any player in the draft and despite it he’s still projected by most to go 2nd. I’ve gotta believe there’s something to be said about that.

yeah, there's always going to be a fear of missing out. I watched Mitchell in the playoffs and went, "wow, why can't we draft THAT". This #2 pick is extremely important and we need to examine all the prospects carefully. It's why I shrug when twitter fans say stuff like "if Vlade doesn't draft Doncic, he needs to be fired".

He has serious questions surrounding his athleticism, and now we're having a big KF debate on whether or not athleticism is important in the NBA. I don't necessarily think Luka is getting more nitpicked than others. We're evaluating Doncic as the potential #1 draft pick(many here believe he's the best player in the draft). He has to live up to the names of Ben Simmons, Karl Anthony-Towns, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, etc. Through 4 years, Andrew Wiggins has become nearly a 20ppg scorer, yet, people view him as a disappointment. Standards are held extremely high for the top picks. Doncic is no exception to this rule.

 

[VF21]

I think youre scorned or wounded, i think theres a lack of historical and longterm context thats actually far and away my main issue, too many comments that exist in a vacuum

its like theres this sense of dread that theres been busts before so its their duty to pick safely. I think the kings have done a terrible job over the years and have trampled over their fans hopes and expectations and it's led to this where people are exxagerating percieved warts well beyond reason and in turn are looking for a hero or better yet savior instead of a well rounded team.

Only thing im mad about is how people cant seem to wrap their minds around why mo is, hass been and will be efficient on offense. How many times are my responses to these erroneous claims going to go unresponded to? Theres a colloquialism about children who throw stones then hide their hands im reminded of. I await a more thorough debunking attempt with bated breath, ones ive seen thus far don't cut the mustard.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Most times, people who continue to harp on the same argument over and over and over eventually find they're only arguing with themselves.

You're totally entitled to your opinions. All I'm saying is you need to quit being surprised/disturbed that everyone doesn't agree with you. You've had Mo Bamba on your radar for quite some time. It's possible you've developed such an affinity for him that you're blind to some of the faults others see.

All I'm saying is there is no guarantee on any of these guys. There's no need to continually belittle those whose opinions do not coincide with yours. We're all here to pass the time and have some fun.

 

[funkykingston]

yeah, there's always going to be a fear of missing out. I watched Mitchell in the playoffs and went, "wow, why can't we draft THAT". This #2 pick is extremely important and we need to examine all the prospects carefully. It's why I shrug when twitter fans say stuff like "if Vlade doesn't draft Doncic, he needs to be fired".

He has serious questions surrounding his athleticism, and now we're having a big KF debate on whether or not athleticism is important in the NBA. I don't necessarily think Luka is getting more nitpicked than others. We're evaluating Doncic as the potential #1 draft pick(many here believe he's the best player in the draft). He has to live up to the names of Ben Simmons, Karl Anthony-Towns, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, etc. Through 4 years, Andrew Wiggins has become nearly a 20ppg scorer, yet, people view him as a disappointment. Standards are held extremely high for the top picks. Doncic is no exception to this rule.

There are three guys at the top of this draft (I'm ignoring Ayton) who can potentially change the culture of a team. Bamba and Jackson Jr can on the defensive end while Doncic can in terms of style of play, moving the ball etc.

Bagley may be the most talented player among them but I don't think he changes the team concept like those three - rather he's a plug-and-play double double machine.

I love the idea of Doncic elevating everyone around him and I'd be happy if he was the pick.

Right now I'm leaning Bagley though I freely acknowledge that Memphis is almost certainly a better fit for him. He'd have a DPOY center next to him, a veteran PG running the offense and have less pressure and more freedom to just play his game.

 

[ockingsfan]

He has to live up to the names of Ben Simmons, Karl Anthony-Towns, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, etc. Through 4 years, Andrew Wiggins has become nearly a 20ppg scorer, yet, people view him as a disappointment. Standards are held extremely high for the top picks. Doncic is no exception to this rule.

Luka would be the #2 pick, if we take him, so I don't think we would need to compare him to actual former #1 picks.

That pressure would belong to Ayton, if Phoenix takes him #1, as expected.