Looking ahead to the 2023 Draft
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Has the playoffs changed anyone’s minds on what we need or the type of player to go after?
I’d say a score first player had moved up a bit for me. I still think a rim protector is needed
I’d say a score first player had moved up a bit for me. I still think a rim protector is needed
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
We need a defensive wall on one end of the floor, and another reliable scoring threat on the other.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Looks to me like we could use a 6'10 SF that isnt skinny, who can block shots, defend and shoot the 3, but I'm pretty sure every team could use that. GG Jackson and Leonard Miller are 2names that standout in that regard, Sidy Cissoko to a lesser degree. Bobi Klintman could end up a factor here too, though it seems unlikely and he's destined for another draft.
and yeah more 3 pt firepower.. Podziemski, Kobe Bufkin, Max Lewis
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Nope. Wings, Wings and more Wings that are excellent defensively. Ideally someone who can swing up to the 2 or even 1 on defense. And a rim protector of some sort that you can reliably get 12-15 MPG behind Domas.
I don't look at this team and think "Oh we could really use Beal/Lavine or DeRozan" type of scorer. We need Bridges/OG/Siakam type of defender or like a Vandy/Hartenstein type rim protector.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
i would have said the same thing before the playoffs but at least in this series, a shot maker on our side has us up 3-1 at the very least imo. I don’t know if I could say the same thing about a great wing defender. Some of that might be because their best player is a small guard and that could look different against say the Suns. I’d take a great two way wing if we find one though. I’m still hoping for Bilal and Jackson Davis in the draft
I'm just not going to overact to our insanely poor shooting this series though:
Playoffs:
Fox: 54% TS || 34.2% from 3-- 9.5 3PA (damn)
HB: 51% TS || 25% from 3--5 3PA
Monk: 56.9% TS || 35% from 3--5 3PA
Huerter 42% TS || 14.3% from 3-- 5.3 3PA
Lyles: 51% TS || 33.3% from 3-- 3.8 3PA
Keegan: 57% TS || 40% from 3-- 3.8 3PA (although this is way skewed since all of this came in one game) --
Davion: 60% TS || 33.3% from 3-- 3.8 3PA ||
Domas: 50.8% TS || No 3PA
Regular season:
Fox: 59.9% TS || 32.4% from 3-- 5.0 3PA
HB: 63.2% TS || 37.4% from 3-- 4.3 3PA
Monk: 58.7% TS || 35.9% from 3-- 5.2 3PA
Huerter: 61.7% TS || 40.2% from 3-- 6.8 3PA
Lyles: 60.7% TS || 36.3% from 3-- 3.2 3PA
Keegan: 59.7% TS || 41.1% from 3-- 6.3 3PA
Davion: 54.5% TS || 32.0% from 3-- 2.5 3PA
Sabonis: 66.8% TS || 37.3% from 3-- 1.1 3PA
I get that playoffs are always tougher and we're vs the team that basically perfected our style of play, but the entire team outside of Davion is just underperforming their shooting/efficiency numbers by a significant significant margin from the regular season. I think you got to work out why we're underperforming and shooting so poorly before really classifying we need an offensive upgrade somewhere.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Exactly, it's a two in one kind of thing perhaps. I think the last game proved that it was largely system after all. Keegan got his shots to fall as the DHO came back last game so that was that. As I've brought up before, I think this team is eerily similar to the millennium team. Until Petrie made the trade for Bibby and got that extra scoring punch the passing game never seemed to translate to the post season and in the first 3 games of the Kings/Warriors series the Kings passing game disappearing and the 3's going away are obviously tied together. Sure the Kings should be hitting these 1 pass or iso square up 3's but they were in such a rhythm off the pass during the season it's hard to break from that now. Also, this is where those iso stats come back to bite a team. The 4 most consistent, or actually, only real iso threats during the year in Fox, Monk, Davion, and Barnes are not at all coincidentally also the biggest impact players so far in this series. That tells me that indeed, the playoffs are still the playoffs and the regular season is still the regular season. At least to some extent.
To some extent though, the Warriors are pretty close to a worst case scenario in terms of a team equipped to slow down our DHO and slow down Sabonis with how good Dray and Looney are. Throw in GPII and Wiggins on the perimeter (Klay on occassion) and very few other teams in the league have that same ability to just totally destroy our DHO sets. I mean, we were the best ORtg team of all-time for a reason; no one was able to really figure it out.
Idk. I think we're learning a lot about the core, but you also don't want to make sweeping changes based off one series and in which your star is banged up (Broken thumb/bruised sternum) and now your other star player has a broken finger and may or may not play the rest of the series.
Great stats, I've been wondering about our underperforming offense in these playoffs (relative to our regular season), and I think I've ultimately come down to it being playoff basketball vs. regular season basketball. Defense gets a lot more intense in the playoffs, and the refs are allowing way more physicality than they do in the regular season. Our players all year long have struggled against longer AND more physical teams. Golden State doesn't really have the length or size, but they've been to the playoffs 100x before and know how to play a certain level of physical defense that disrupts the team.
I think another thing we can all agree about the playoffs is that individual performances matter a lot more than the team performance. I mean hell, we won the first game solely off the backs of Fox and Monk. Having guys who can self-create and get their own shots are big time game-changers for the playoffs. As of right now, the only guy who seems to be able to consistently get their own bucket is Fox. I think we can add HB to that list, but he hasn't really been used in his typical ISO role this series, but his future with the team is uncertain. Monk is just way too inconsistent and unpredictable.
This is where I think it would help having another legitimate shot-creator or wing scorer who knows how to find their own offense. As someone who wasn't really a big fan of Maxwell Lewis before, I'm starting to hone in on him as a possible 1st round pick.
I'm right there with you. Individual scoring and shot-making has really been elevated in the playoffs. I'm not really sure how much a late 1st round rookie will help us for next year's playoffs, but I think it's 100% a need for this team in the future. Here's my arch-type needs:
1. Scoring wing who can self-create
2. 3&D PF who can switch on the perimeter
3. Defensive big who can protect the rim
4. 3&D SF (big wing) who can hit 3s at a high level clip
I find myself switching #2 and #3 a lot because of Alex Len. He's not our future, but if we can bring him back on a vet min contract, a rim protector becomes less of a need. Having a 3&D PF feels a bit like a luxury because we haven't really needed one for the playoffs, but I think it's a need for regular season play.
Yeah I like Lewis a lot as an option. And 2 other guys sort of projected around our range in Colby Jones and Dariq Whitehead. Whitehead's stat profile just isn't good, but he's still so young, has all that pedigree from high school and certainly showed flashes of being able to be a scoring creation wing with an elite shot. I think he'd be outstanding in a developmental role here where he wouldn't have a ton of offensive responsibility right away. But if everything clicks, I think he's my favorite upside guy around this slot.
Colby Jones really stands out being 6'6 with his level of playmaking ability. And while he never really blows you away with the scoring, he's still a guy who can at all 3 levels. 65% FT is concerning and didn't have a huge FT rate either.
Still, worth taking notice of that level of creation from a 2/3. One of the better "big" playmakers in this draft imo.
I'm a big believer in Whitehead. I think his injury slowed him down and there's more that he wasn't able to show off in college. His trajectory and career at Duke ended up very similar to AJ Griffin. He's still just 18-years-old making him one of the younger players in the draft. On this team, make him a 3&D player while slowly adding more to his game every year. There's a path to success for him, but I think other teams will see the same thing and he could go up as high as late lotto, probably teens? If he's there at #24, draft him and don't look back
I like Colby Jones as a jack-of-all trades type of player. I think he'd be more of a luxury pick, but I also think he'd be able to contribute more immediately than most of the other guys in a similar range.
The guy who really stands out to me and I'm wondering isn't getting 1st round pick buzz is Jaylen Clark. Is it because he'll be 22 by the start of the season. Are teams really not going to learn their lesson with letting another Herb Jones fall to the 2nd?
Started watching some more UCLA and he's absolutely just a terror on defense at the wing. Versatility, great lateral movement and real desire to play hard-nosed defense. Contests everything. I get he's not a very polished offensive player yet, but he's still improved every single season, even becoming passable this last year. And still, who cares? The name of the game in the NBA is finding defenders who can flex 1-3 and defend the perimeter dribble-drive and defend in ISO. I think he's very much a guy you can flex to the 3 in the NBA because his frame is rock solid and he plays physical. Guys aren't just overpowering him and shooting over him.
Prospects like Clark are how you show we're serious about putting an actual competent defense on the floor. You bet on him being a superb on that end and hopefully letting our system carry him to being respectable enough on offense.
Started watching some more UCLA and he's absolutely just a terror on defense at the wing. Versatility, great lateral movement and real desire to play hard-nosed defense. Contests everything. I get he's not a very polished offensive player yet, but he's still improved every single season, even becoming passable this last year. And still, who cares? The name of the game in the NBA is finding defenders who can flex 1-3 and defend the perimeter dribble-drive and defend in ISO. I think he's very much a guy you can flex to the 3 in the NBA because his frame is rock solid and he plays physical. Guys aren't just overpowering him and shooting over him.
Prospects like Clark are how you show we're serious about putting an actual competent defense on the floor. You bet on him being a superb on that end and hopefully letting our system carry him to being respectable enough on offense.
Well, you can start with the fact that he tore his Achilles (extent of the injury seems to be hushed up) right before Tournament time. Take a guy who never could shoot and relies on supreme athleticism, tear his Achilles, and ask a team to draft him maybe 6 months maybe a year before he can get on court again...it's a risk.
Ozymandias
All-Star
I dont really agree with this at all because its mostly just the starters and the backups playing, we can upgrade the 3rd stringers.. There's just a matter of overturn with the roster too, not all of these guys are signed for next year
Were underperforming because clean looks arent going in... So the way you solve that is to get more shooters.. We have Davion Mitchell taking 5 3pt attempts in the highest magnitude games, that says a lot..
Sabonis 3pt shooting % appears to be fools gold.. He doesnt even want to take midrange shots..
Monk isnt gonna be hot every single night, and on those nights is where you can really tell the team could still use more shooting.
Coach Brown likes to go with hot hands too so why not potentially find more of them..
Bufkin could operate for us sort of like how Jordan Poole works for the Warriors. He's not only a reliable shooter but very shifty. This player could help us next year, the idea that our team is too good to be helped by our 1st rd pick is severely lacking context.
I mean I never said this or even implied it. I think we're mostly talking about what sort of archetype WOULD help the Kings most in the short and long-term. I'd obviously never say no to Jordan Poole or if Bufkin is the best talent in our draft slot.
I've been having the same debate with Sactownkid all year. I don't think the offense needs a overhaul or a 3rd star to be a successful playoff team. I do think we need to address the defensive concerns well before thinking we need to consolidate our offensive assets into a 3rd guy (Huerter/Keegan/HB, etc). Right now, the Kings have exactly one above average defender in their entire core. If you could find a wing defender with that same level of pedigree, I would prioritize that over an offensive first prospect.
Whitehead scares me. Projected first rounder that seems to have 2nd round project written all over him.
41% from 2pt land is not something that can be ignored. 3pt% is solid but I'm not completely sold. 3&Dish type players are all over the NBA. They're basically AAAA players that can defend no matter where they're at but they just can't seem to get their offense in tune on the big stage. I don't know how often it happens but I doubt many college players that are that inefficient from 2, wind up being solid offensive contributors in the NBA. Could be wrong but I just haven't seen it anecdotally. I feel like he'd be a Cam Reddish type.
Ozymandias
All-Star
I mean the minutes get distributed to hot hands around here. So in games when weve tried them all with not all that much success a player like Bufkin would sure be nice to have around, Podziemski and Riley Kugel in that same vein, these are players who can hit wide open 3's and also shake you on the perimeter n make a drive or a pass.
If you want to prioritize defense there's many ways to go about it. The first follow up question has gotta be; how important is the 3pt shooting of said defender?
*Should be noted the combine measurements will weigh more heavily on the defense first guys..
the darkhorse/least obvious candidate is for them to go after a backup C if they feel there's one that can help not only in the paint but to recover defensively to the perimeter, so the choices seem to be pretty slim I'd say its Lively and Nnaji.
Since PG is covered, our starting lineup is covered, Lyles Monk and Mitchell are established rotation guys, that narrows down the search to Combo Guards thru PF/SF types, and your gonna want someoen who might be able to handle what our guys like Huerter or T Davis struggle with right now, so I'd say your talking players 6'5 and above.
Coulibaly, Rupert, GG Jackson, Whitehead, Leonard Miller, Sidy Cissoko, Clowney, Andre Jackson Jr., Keyontae Johnson, Ricky Council IV, Djurisic, Dillon Mitchell, Terrence Shannon Jr., Kevin McCullar, Strawther, Jordan Walsh, Julian Phillips, Oliver Maxence-Prosper, Jaylen Clark, Yannick Kraag, Bobi Klintmann, Omari Moore, Eli John N'Daiye, Kobe Brown, Hakim Hart, Josiah James, Matt Murrell, Michael Caciedo, Berke Buyuktuncel, Olivier Nkamhoua, Chris Livingston, Jalen Bridges, Hunter Tyson and Jordan Miller (to name a few)
Ozymandias
All-Star
I think his fit on the team with Duke probably had some adverse affect on that 2pt %, they have Lively and Mark Mitchell feasting on those freebie 2 point shots.
Its a solid point though. Could be onto something. Though I disagree with the 2nd round project part, I think he's one of the more ready teenagers we'll see in this draft, and he's still 18, mostly in a defensive capacity, which is how he'd have to earn his PT here on the Kings.
Cam Reddish is a player who really fell in love with that 3pt shot somewhere late in his HS career and has been shooting them en masse ever since, who knows if Whitehead will suffer a similar fate but my guess is not, he's got more of that blue-collar flavor to his game
The way people seem to digest that 3pt % scares me. He's not a "can't leave him open" guy, he's somewhere between good and pretty good. If he was some great 3pt shooter no way would he be on the board in the mid 20's. Plus multipositional defender whos strong and also he's a plus in transition and a powerful finisher.
I'm sure gonna be interested to see the combine measurements, soon I hope we get a lot of clarity on the wings and forwards from private workouts n late process rumors.
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Yeah, he's a guy where you take him lowers this "risk" of him blowing up in your face. If he's a top 10 pick like Reddish was, then, yeah, you're probably going to be disappointed. But at 24? Not to say we should be wasting FRP, but I think that'd be a decent slot for a real upside swing like Whitehead and just hope his whole last year was him recovering from the injury. He's still so young that you could really "stash" him for a couple seasons in a small role and really work his development.
There are a lot of toolsy guys going around this range though, especially on the wing or at the 4. I think Ozy was onto it with a guy like Maxwell Lewis. Still some problem in the profile, but has true wing size and length, was an excellent C&S 3pt shooter and showed a fairly nice scoring pedigree. Definite upside to be a 2-way wing too.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yeah, the combine measurements are going to be important this year with the huge glut of 2-4 wing-forwards in the class. I mean, it feels like people have been selling low on Emoni Bates over the last three years or so based on his perceived t-rex arms alone. If his wingspan only turns out to be like an inch or two below average, I could see him rising the draft ladder as we approach June.
Ozymandias
All-Star
What Bates weighs in at will be interesting too. He's obviously very thin. I'd sure like to have him at 54, seems like the Kings offense would be good for him to get clean looks without having to dribble much, though he's obviously destined for the G-League.
I'm glad this is the last combine players get to sit out and stuff, thats glorious. I've always had this theory that if the Cavs knew how fat Anthony Bennett was they might not have taken him #1
Ozymandias
All-Star
Some players will use this offseason time better than others.. Seeing Norman Powell perform so well for the Clippers reminded me of this. he was once a guy who had reportedly fixed the hitch in his shot during the summer leading up to that draft where he went middle of the 2nd rd. Now he's made big $$$ on multiple contracts and is playing great NBA ball.
Some players will get in the gym and shoot like crazy or some fatbodies will really lean down some skinny guys can bulk up a bit. Part of what makes all this an inexact science.
Some players will get in the gym and shoot like crazy or some fatbodies will really lean down some skinny guys can bulk up a bit. Part of what makes all this an inexact science.
Ozymandias
All-Star
https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-2023-early-entry-candidates
Heres the list of 242 early entrants the NBA just announced
Heres the list of 242 early entrants the NBA just announced
Ozymandias
All-Star
Isaiah Miranda's name is on that list of early entrants !!!!!!
This footage is over a year old btw but LETS TAKE HIM at 54! True 7'1" with a 7'6" wingspan and he can shoot n dribble n block shots hes skilled and mobile, major upside development project. He's essentially a player to be stashed in the G-League and you get him to strengthen up.
If you want to see a sleeper whos not being mentioned anywhere look no further than this player, he has a rare combination of size and skill, he's a stretch 5.
This footage is over a year old btw but LETS TAKE HIM at 54! True 7'1" with a 7'6" wingspan and he can shoot n dribble n block shots hes skilled and mobile, major upside development project. He's essentially a player to be stashed in the G-League and you get him to strengthen up.
If you want to see a sleeper whos not being mentioned anywhere look no further than this player, he has a rare combination of size and skill, he's a stretch 5.
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Ozymandias
All-Star
so many cool names on that list of early entrants;
Mady Traore who played like 20 minutes for New Mexico State his freshman year is on there..
Everyones favorite Bagley brother Marcus is on that list after playing 2 games this season after playing 3 last.
Johni Broome, a JUCO xfer at Auburn who seems better than people give him credit for. 6'10 shotblocker.
Tyrese Hunter at Texas is on there. Mongolian Mike. Charles Bediako!
Jordan Nesbitt at Hampton declared, no way would he keep his name in needs to shoot the 3 way better..
Wesley Cardet Jr. !! He shot 34% from 3 in his Sophomore season at Chicago State. Tough 210lb 6'6 guard can pass the ball 81% fts.
Cardet Jr. is sort of like Kings SL legend Ray McCallum Jr. in that he could've played high major D1 if he wanted to but instead chose a smaller school.
Small army of international guys I dont recognize.
Mady Traore who played like 20 minutes for New Mexico State his freshman year is on there..
Everyones favorite Bagley brother Marcus is on that list after playing 2 games this season after playing 3 last.
Johni Broome, a JUCO xfer at Auburn who seems better than people give him credit for. 6'10 shotblocker.
Tyrese Hunter at Texas is on there. Mongolian Mike. Charles Bediako!
Jordan Nesbitt at Hampton declared, no way would he keep his name in needs to shoot the 3 way better..
Wesley Cardet Jr. !! He shot 34% from 3 in his Sophomore season at Chicago State. Tough 210lb 6'6 guard can pass the ball 81% fts.
Small army of international guys I dont recognize.
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One guy who had a concerning low 2pt % was Jabari Smith Jr. I think both guys will be fine in the league, but your concern is valid. He doesn't have much of an in-between game, but he's flashed potential since college. 3pt shot is where he's good at.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Tonights game 5 loss makes me think that James Nnaji might really be the biggest swing for the fences we could take.
I know we have this sort of awkward backlog at C but really thats inconsequential, the rotation we have is mostly solid n isnt easy to upgrade.
One of the weakest links remains the backup C spot and no one can fill that like Nnaji because of his combination of size strength length mobility and explosion. We'll have Lyles here when a Finesse C is needed so its a much better fit than what we've got currently(except Len is far more trustworthy from the FT line).
Start him off in the G-League n get him ready to play 10 mpg, could payoff bigtime for us, the defense could use it.
What if we could land him at #38? Thatd sure be nice.
Leonard Miller @24
James Nnaji @38
Baylor Scheierman @54
I know we have this sort of awkward backlog at C but really thats inconsequential, the rotation we have is mostly solid n isnt easy to upgrade.
One of the weakest links remains the backup C spot and no one can fill that like Nnaji because of his combination of size strength length mobility and explosion. We'll have Lyles here when a Finesse C is needed so its a much better fit than what we've got currently(except Len is far more trustworthy from the FT line).
What if we could land him at #38? Thatd sure be nice.
Leonard Miller @24
James Nnaji @38
Baylor Scheierman @54
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I do think we need a long-term replacement for Len as our backup C. Would've been nice of the FO had any ounce of belief in Queta who has been doing well in the League, but I think Nnaji brings a level of athleticism that Queta doesn't have. I'd be thrilled if he's there at #38!
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