iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Yeh I don’t dislike college ball I just prefer watching the best of the best.
Looking ahead to the 2023 Draft
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Ozymandias
All-Star
So some updates just went thru on ESPN's best available list, few things I notice;
-Brandon Miller's overtaken Scoota Henderson for the #2 spot. ESPN/DX/Givony held firm on Miller being outside the top-5 so long during the season, they've finally conceded.
-Taylor Hendricks up to #10. Jordan Hawkins up to #14.
-While many others have dropped Kyle Filipkowski to the 20's they have him at #16 still, which I kind of like, He's not the second coming of Mitch McGary, his game might be more built for today's NBA than he was able to show on that Duke team.
-Noah Clowney and Leonard Miller at 20 and 21 (kinda stinks, part of me hopes we take Leonard Miller with the 1st)
-Dookies, Dereck Lively drops a few spots to 22, Dariq Whitehead moves up a few spots to #24, which I agree with, Whitehead should be over Kris Murray IMO.
-Bilal Coulibaly jumps from #40 to #27.... he overtakes Max Lewis and yes GG Jackson who's down to #29
- Andre Jackson jumps a bunch of spots up, from the mid 2nd, to #31
-Terquavion Smith up to #32. (This one to me especially has some sort of 'someone knows something' type of vibe to it)
-2 players with strong showings in march UCLA's Amari Bailey and Mizzou's Kobe Brown continue to climb, now up to #42 and #43.
-Coleman Hawkins (Sacramento Native) jumps like 15 spots from the bottom of the 2nd to #47
-Strawther 'up' to #50, Jordan Walsh 'up' to #53
-Hakim Hart breaks into the top 60 (though there's only 58 picks this draft) for the first time all season.
-Slowly but surely Yannick Kraag jumps a few spots every update, now at #77.
-The Adama Sanogo disrespect continues. #87 after winning the championship and most outstanding player of the tournament. IDK i see people consistently having Oscar Tshiebwe over him, I'd take Sanogo, though honestly these players are firmly in the "we'll see what they can do in the g-league first" category, there's an overabundance of backup C's on the FA market every summer, so there's not much necessity to use picks on these types.
-Brandon Miller's overtaken Scoota Henderson for the #2 spot. ESPN/DX/Givony held firm on Miller being outside the top-5 so long during the season, they've finally conceded.
-Taylor Hendricks up to #10. Jordan Hawkins up to #14.
-While many others have dropped Kyle Filipkowski to the 20's they have him at #16 still, which I kind of like, He's not the second coming of Mitch McGary, his game might be more built for today's NBA than he was able to show on that Duke team.
-Noah Clowney and Leonard Miller at 20 and 21 (kinda stinks, part of me hopes we take Leonard Miller with the 1st)
-Dookies, Dereck Lively drops a few spots to 22, Dariq Whitehead moves up a few spots to #24, which I agree with, Whitehead should be over Kris Murray IMO.
-Bilal Coulibaly jumps from #40 to #27.... he overtakes Max Lewis and yes GG Jackson who's down to #29
- Andre Jackson jumps a bunch of spots up, from the mid 2nd, to #31
-Terquavion Smith up to #32. (This one to me especially has some sort of 'someone knows something' type of vibe to it)
-2 players with strong showings in march UCLA's Amari Bailey and Mizzou's Kobe Brown continue to climb, now up to #42 and #43.
-Coleman Hawkins (Sacramento Native) jumps like 15 spots from the bottom of the 2nd to #47
-Strawther 'up' to #50, Jordan Walsh 'up' to #53
-Hakim Hart breaks into the top 60 (though there's only 58 picks this draft) for the first time all season.
-Slowly but surely Yannick Kraag jumps a few spots every update, now at #77.
-The Adama Sanogo disrespect continues. #87 after winning the championship and most outstanding player of the tournament. IDK i see people consistently having Oscar Tshiebwe over him, I'd take Sanogo, though honestly these players are firmly in the "we'll see what they can do in the g-league first" category, there's an overabundance of backup C's on the FA market every summer, so there's not much necessity to use picks on these types.
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Tankathon's mock draft has the Kings taking Max Lewis, Brandin Podziemski, and Adama Sanogo with the 24th, 37th, and 54th picks respectively.
I wouldn't mind that draft.
But given who is on the board in their scenario I'd actually go:
#24 Colby Jones or Sidy Cissoko (maybe even James Nnaji)
#37 Julian Phillips
#54 Jordan Walsh
I wouldn't mind that draft.
But given who is on the board in their scenario I'd actually go:
#24 Colby Jones or Sidy Cissoko (maybe even James Nnaji)
#37 Julian Phillips
#54 Jordan Walsh
Ozymandias
All-Star
Theres kind of a rumor going around that Julian Phillips will hit the transfer portal and play for Auburn next season. But maybe thats just Auburn fans still bitter from not landing him in recruitment.
I dont think there's been much discussion in this thread of NIL payments. but lets remember that Phillips TURNED DOWN 800k to play for the G-League. Its fair to assume he got quite a lot of money from NIL to go to Tennessee this season. Could he make similar money to a 2nd rd pick with NIL $$ again next season while trying to catapult his value into a much bigger 1st nba deal? I wonder.
This type of thing was apparently part of the justification by the league/players association to keep the 1-and-done rules in place, they felt the NIL money players were getting now was a factor.
Ozymandias
All-Star
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Why is Trayce Jackson Davis not a first round pick? Good size, athletic, rim projector, really good passer, good on the boards. Efficient. He is 23, doesn’t shoot threes and not great from the line but I’m intrigued by him.
Been watching some Podziemski tape and oh my does he look absolutely perfectly in the DHO with Domas or being an elite C&S spacer if asked or being a secondary creator kind of like how Monk and Huerter currently are for us. Really surprising how sophisticated his offensive game is; like you said, dude looks like a pro out there with a go to move for just about any scenario. The stat profile is incredible on him too with an elite TS% for a big USG rate, he protects the ball, he's seemingly an excellent passer that looks to get his teammates involved. .313 FTr isn't bad at all for a dude who takes as many 3's and jump-shots as he does. Absolutely love to see the 8.8 RPG and the 13.7% TRB for a guard too. Shows a real knack for the ball and not afraid to mix it up inside. That's a real weakness the Kings have too, outside of Domas.
Doesn't address any of our team defensive concerns, but he looks like he can be a pretty good offensive player and a seriously elite shooter. I think he could really thrive in a secondary offensive role in our system; where he probably starts to struggle is if you ask him to take a similar workload that he did with Santa Clara.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Trayce could provide rim protection and has enough size and passing ability to not only take the back up 5 minutes but also run a lot of the same actions Domas does. 10 min in that role and then 5-15 minutes at the back up 4. Bring over Sasha to provide the shooting that Trayce lacks.
as of today I take Bilal at 24 as an upside swing and trade 37 and 54 for 32 and take Trayce
Fox Monk
KVon Monk whoever
Barnes Kessler Bilal
Murray Sasha Davis
Domas Davis Holmes
as of today I take Bilal at 24 as an upside swing and trade 37 and 54 for 32 and take Trayce
Fox Monk
KVon Monk whoever
Barnes Kessler Bilal
Murray Sasha Davis
Domas Davis Holmes
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Watch this highlight package and tell me which nba player it looks like to you.
In my eyes, TJD is massively underrated. I'm sure that the knock is that he doesn't shoot jumpers, but he's so good around the basket, why should he? Great rebounder, great post player, has flashed some excellent defense. I think whoever drafts him gets a bargain, and a bargain that is more or less ready to contribute, not a project. I know there are a lot of ways we can potentially go with #24 but TJD would not upset me at all.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
The thing is that big men are so undervalued at this point (see EJ Liddell dropping all the way down into the second round despite lots of projections of him having lotto talent in last year's draft) that I think I'd gamble on TJD being around at pick 37 rather than using the 24 on him instead of a wing prospect that probably won't last until the second round.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Many of those things can be said about Richaun Holmes though, right? and he's our 4th string C, basically an $11,000,000/per season cheerleader. I think that tells a bit of the story.
The idea we solve the Richaun Holmes issue with another C whos the exact same size and length as Holmes, seems like pure madness to me. Sabonis has a very strong core n is able to put his body into players to help him grab boards, n he led the league in rebounding, but that doesnt mean he's like David Robinson in 1991 dominating all matchups on the boards. We should have more players here with elite length to surround/sub in for Sabonis. Trying to win a championship is hard enough, trying to win it with a bunch of C's that have PF-like wingspans is surely even harder.
TJD doesnt help us with Ayton, doesnt help us with Jaren Jackson Jr., with Jokic, with Steven Adams, players like that have built their careers demolishing smaller C's like TJD. As strong as TJD is, surely theres NBA starting C's who will be quite unimpressed with his functional strength. IDK, maybe I'm wrong, but I dont see the pro-TJD posts here making those claims, which worries me.
There's been a decent amount of pro-TJD posts in this thread but I cant recall a single one of them saying "He's a starting C" in the NBA. If he's strictly a backup, that means u need to have a tailor-made situation for him, which I really question if thats the case here with the Kings, I'd lean towards NO.
I mean he's pretty close to the first, he's only got decent length, If his arms were as long as James Nnaji's he'd be in everyones first rds, or who knows if he'd needed 4 years of college to get drafted.
Jackson-Davis is a player I truly belive needs to land on a team that can plug him in right away. He's the same age as Goga Bitzade, who went 19th in the 2019 draft and was cut this year n the Magic picked him up off the scrapheap. There sorta has to be some urgency to select TJD in the first.
I personally like that ESPN has 18 year old James Nnaji higher than him, Nnaji is actually 4 and a half years younger than TJD, I think he's actually safer, but who knows. They also have GG Jackson projected 29th these days, do you really prefer the 23 year old 6'9 C over the 19year old 6'9 PF who runs liek the wind? Not me.
For me personally too I'd say that TJD is just too similar to Sabonis, I want Coach Brown to have different looks to throw at opponents, I dont think TJD really offers that. I'd say Leonard Miller looks like a way better/spicier fit here in the frontcourt than TJD, though they play different positions and it seems Miller might end up out of range.
Its a moot point because Donovan Clingan isnt gonna be in this draft but to take TJD over Clingan, I think you'd be crazy to do such a thing, its not quite as bad as taking Papagiannis over Ivica Zubac but I'd be worried.
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Ozymandias
All-Star
I think your onto something. I'd genuinely love to see how his career could play out starting in Sacramento. Hands-down my favorite guard in college to watch this season. On offense, what more can he even do? ya know, it's like he's way overqualified to be a hot hand off the bench for some NBA team.
Honestly I feel like he could turn into a sort of Dan Majarle type fan-favorite figure for us, he's got some Ben Gordon to his game, I love the way he shoots those floaters.. (terrible to see the recent Ben Gordon news just days after UConn wins the championship, seems he's really struggling with mental health).
I also dont think he's sort of caught in-between positions as much as Nico Mannion was for example. He's a solid 6'5 with very real combo skills.
N yeah so he's got some defensive limitations but its not for lack of toughness or effort, he's out there ready to mix it up, there's no way u can put up stats like that and be in anything less than great cardio shape..
Podziemski's gonna shoot the damn lights out for teams in private workouts.. I'm worried he shoots so well in private workouts he gets a promise and leapfrogs up the board, n things go radio silent from his camp, I wouldnt rule it out.
He just turned 20 in February too. Can't even imagine the hell this kid would raise out there on the west coast if he had to keep playing college ball next 2 seasons, he'd be in the running for the NPOY.
to me, you give this kid Dellavedova's roster spot, thats a major upgrade in my eyes. He fits next to Davion really well. Him and Monk can play together. He obviously fits next to Fox but who doesnt. To me you might even be able to get away with him at PG, Huerter at SG, Keegan at SF for playing a really tall lineup. IDK, i sorta refuse to believe he steps on anyones toes around here, his skillset seems to be right in the middle of what we've got.
spectacular highlights. the kid is a highlight factory. I'll always sing the importance of the step-back J in todays NBA, n this kid has one of the best in this draft if not the best, he's very good at using his eyes to set up clean looks, for headfakes or he'll act like he's looking at a teammate to pass n just pull up. sign me up!
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iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
i think it comes down to whether you buy the defense or not. Holmes was a good defensive player early in his career and then fizzled out on that end and did struggle against bigger players. It’s not out of the question that TJD could face a similar fate on that end. I still lean more towards him excelling defensively. On offense, he reminds me of Sengun some as he uses his spin move well and the above average passing.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
a bit of a bummer for us as that pushes all the prospect in the 20s up a spot
I think what also really stands out is he's not the most athletic dude, but he still gets shots off and he still can get to his spots on the floor at his pacing. You do always want great athleticism, but it really does stand out when a guy is so successful without it. Now, can that carry over to the NBA when he was a below-average athleticism for college? We'll see.
Like you said, I think he fits like a glove with basically all the guards on the team and gives us some protection if Monk doesn't resign and he can fill that slot.
Ozymandias
All-Star
This also has crazy implications for the 2024 draft! wow! Mackenzie Mgbako (possible top10 pick) has asked to be released from his LOI over this! what a bombshell.
Yep the depth thins a bit, It stinks in the sense that maybe we could've gotten him too.
Ozymandias
All-Star
I kinda like the idea of taking Ousmane N'Diaye at #54. See what he does in SL, offer him G-League spot n keep monitoring. He really does move quite well for 6'11. He just turned 19 last month.
I'm buying the hype on this player tbh. I think of the 39th pick of the 2018 draft Isaac Bonga, I think of Thon Maker, and actually a bit of Skal Labissiere, kinda feel like this player might have a better chance of sticking than those guys, his game is more 'new age'.
I just cant debunk why with added strength n better coaching he wouldnt have a chance to really surprise to the upside.
I figure If that 3pt shot comes thru for this kid, that alone will easily warrant the pick, n it just might, he shot 33% on lots of attempts this season.
His case isnt exactly the classic low 3pt shot attempts hail mary projection, also just the way this player moves n looks balanced at 6'11 has me kinda convinced. He seems to really crash the offensive boards too which is one of the reasons why I like him, I dont get the feel like his game is gimmicky, seems to have a translatable skillset to me. His footwork looks pretty good to me.
When you think about it from his POV, I'd think it;d be best for his chances to land on a team like the Kings, his game seems tailored to an uptempo system and thriving in transition.
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm a big Max Lewis guy. Of that group the only one I would consider taking over Max is Colby, who is more ready to play right now, but Lewis has the highest ceiling of any of them, and already has great ballhandling skills. He's able to create his own shot, and can get to the basket at will. Plus, he's an elite athlete. I like the others, but Nnaji is probably a couple of years away from being able to contribute meaningful minutes in the NBA, and Sidy's 3pt shot is still a work in progress.
I do like Phillips, but he needs to get stronger. Walsh is one of my favorite players in the draft. If he ever develops an outside shot, watch out! I have around 6 or 7 players that I like for the Kings at 24. But there's no way to predict who will be there. But just off the top of my head some of the players that I would like are, Max Lewis, Julian Strawther, Colby Jones, Leonard Miller, Dariq Whitehead, and Brandin Podziemski. Of course there are others that I like as well, but I don't think they have a chance in hell of dropping down to us.
There are some rumors that Dallas would be interested in trading their 1st rd pick for more immediate help. Right now if they end up with it, it would be the 10th pick in the draft if I'm not mistaken. So if the pick comes up and Taylor Hendricks is sitting there, would you be willing to trade our 1st rd pick and ? for the 10th pick? Probably the only player on the team that's not untouchable that they would want is an unrestricted free agent. I'm referring to Barnes of course. And he would certainly help their team. But it would have to be a sign and trade. Anyway, just a thought!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yep, I have to admit that I was surprised and I'm not sure what the brain trust at Duke was thinking. When Calipari has a big man recruit coming in for the next season, he'll usually encourage whose ever holding down that spot from the current season to enter the draft. Mgbako's actions don't surprise me. He wants minutes, and there's no doubt that those minutes would have been reduced with Filipowski there. If nothing else, I thought he would attend the combine and get feedback from the teams about where he might go in the draft. Hell, he might have even gotten a promise.
I understand Proctor and Mitchell returning. Both were going to be 2nd rd picks and by returning, they might be able to get bumped up into the first round next year. I like Mitchell and he didn't get a chance to show off all his skills this season.
I think either Barnes re-signs or leaves as a FA. I think it's unlikely he is used in a sign-and-trade at this point in his career.
That said, I am a big Hendricks fan, so I'd love to see a way to make that work.
Calipari is typically recruiting over his players and has built his rep on being an NBA pipeline. I know that Duke has been the same in the modern era but I was in my mid 20s the first time Coach K had a player leave early, I imagine some kids come to the school thinking like Flip. You can't really tell a kid to leave? You also can't promise the kid that stays the starting job if the new kid is better.
Tough situation all around, I imagine NIL money compounds this. The modern landscape never fails to astound me, particularly with the transfer portal and 4 and 5* guys that come to big programs and play like 3* guys and bail for mid-majors.
Tough situation all around, I imagine NIL money compounds this. The modern landscape never fails to astound me, particularly with the transfer portal and 4 and 5* guys that come to big programs and play like 3* guys and bail for mid-majors.
Ozymandias
All-Star
They're saying Louisville or North Carolina for Mgbako now, both are really solid spots for him to star.
Its crazy that Louisville could be as bad as they were this season n have a chance at reloading with Dennis Evans, Skyy Clark, Trentyn Flowers and possibly Mgbako.
Would be my favorite UNC squad in a long time if they land him too.
On the Duke front Jeremy Roach has declared for the draft but is maintaining his college eligibility, will be interesting to see what he decides to do/what kind of feedback he gets as he's not particularly great in any aspect but he's solid and tough.
Brice Sensabaugh scoring output is real intriuging. Has that huge 235 pound frame at 6'6 and looks like a huge wingspan too (although can't seem to find it anywhere). Just an absolute flamethrower and dude is not shy at all. What I do like is he's honestly one of the better 3-level scorers in the draft; I don't see any real weakness on the floor that he can't score from. He'll also give you self-creation in addition to being a pretty great C&S spacer. Something that should succeed well in our system. Maybe Big Dog 2.0 as a ceiling comp for him?
In terms of the stat profile, the scoring numbers are really insane for a 19 year old freshman
35% USG (Holy)
58.7% TS (very good with his shot volume)
40.5% 3 on 4.5 3PA
12.8% TOV
12.8% TRB
11% AST
Another thought is he kind of has the old man Harrison Barnes scoring game too, but with that "#1 option" scorers mentality. He's not near the high flyer that prospect Barnes was, but in terms of having a good handle, big frame and being able to adapt to different scoring roles on the floor.
Defensively... oof. Just not impressive. Lots of little lapses, lack of effort, gets beat and doesn't use his frame to his advantage. I think this is the risk with him; there's a lot of work for him to become a good defender at the NBA level. Or even a passable one. But he does have the physical tools to do so (imo), which could make him a steal if he's picked in the mid-late first.
In terms of the stat profile, the scoring numbers are really insane for a 19 year old freshman
35% USG (Holy)
58.7% TS (very good with his shot volume)
40.5% 3 on 4.5 3PA
12.8% TOV
12.8% TRB
11% AST
Another thought is he kind of has the old man Harrison Barnes scoring game too, but with that "#1 option" scorers mentality. He's not near the high flyer that prospect Barnes was, but in terms of having a good handle, big frame and being able to adapt to different scoring roles on the floor.
Defensively... oof. Just not impressive. Lots of little lapses, lack of effort, gets beat and doesn't use his frame to his advantage. I think this is the risk with him; there's a lot of work for him to become a good defender at the NBA level. Or even a passable one. But he does have the physical tools to do so (imo), which could make him a steal if he's picked in the mid-late first.
Ozymandias
All-Star
The thing is too, in the case of Mgbako, its completely ridiculous to try and hold back his playing time at the college level of play, its in his best interest to find a place to showcase as a potential top3 pick. 6'8" tough wing with a big frame n a soft touch on the jumpshot, In a draft with not much of a heirarchy at the top established he'd be crazy not to be in a position to stake his claim.
The story of Wendell Carter being recruited as "the guy" for Duke, then they add Marvin Bagley who they aslo recruit as "the guy" n step on Carters toes has made the rounds n I'm glad for Mgbako he's gonna find a more appropriate spot than do that dance.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Obviously, as stated before, I'm a big Podziemski fan, and would be happy with him at 24. In some ways, he reminds me a bit of Jordan Hawkins with his constant movement, except with better basketball IQ. And by no means am I implying that Hawkins has poor BBIQ, just that Brandin has better BBIQ! Podziemski doesn't take as many bad or forced shots as Hawkins does as an example. As far as my favorite guard to watch? I probably have three and two of them have already been mentioned. Hawkins and Podziemski! The third is Cason Wallace. All for different reasons of course. Honorable mention would go to Kobe Bufkin. I love Colby Jones as well but I look at him as more of a SF than I do a Guard..
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yeah the only question about Sensabaugh is his defense. Can he improve it enough to not be a liability. No one questions his ability to score the ball. He's without a doubt the best mid-range shooter in the draft. I'm stunned when he misses a 15 to 17 footer. And no one seems to be able to stop him with that stepback fadeaway shot. Plus, he'll post you up, and he can move bodies. I nicknamed him buckets. He'd be a great player off the bench to come in and put some points up for you. But will he be able to defend?
I wish Arizona was in play.
Ozymandias
All-Star
I honestly hope this is who we take in the first round.
When I see Leonard Miller running around like a maniac grabbing boards n getting out in transition I think 'that would look good on the Kings.'
When I see Sidy Cissoko playing stonewall defense, moving laterally with that strong frame, I think 'that would look good on the Kings.'
When I watch Bilal Coulibaly I think 'you've gotta be kidding me, this kid is in range of our pick? I find that hard to believe'
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