Let's look at the bright side for a moment.

[RookieOfTheDay]

I will follow the Kings where ever they go and what ever they are called. I am a fan of the Kings and not a fan of Sacramento. Isn't this a silly debate?

I'm not really a fan of Sacramento either. In fact, I'm not really a fan cities in general. I'm a country boy at heart who just kind of got stuck here by circumstance. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan of The Kings being in Sacramento, though. They were one of the few things that made the city exciting. Without The Kings, we're basically a bigger version of Stockton or Fresno. Whether they were good or bad, they were our team and something we could all rally behind. It just wouldn't be the same if they were in another city. They'd no longer feel like our team.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Right. Amare signed there because they paid him the big bucks. Carmello wanted to be traded there because Amare was already there. And if they end up with Paul or Williams, it will be because Amare and Carmello are already there. It all starts with The Knicks doing what it took to sign Amare in the first place. It's not like he just went there because it's New York. They made him the best offer. As for the Kings, in the "glory days" they didn't need any big free agents. By the time they did need them, the team was a wreck and they had their money tied up in too many mid level contracts. It was more poor management on The Kings part than the city of Sacramento itself being kryptonite to free agents or something. if the Kings had been as well run as the Jazz for the last two decades, do you really think they'd have all this trouble signing free agents?

First off Carmello has been wanting to go to NY for a while. Amare signing there had nothing to do with it. Second, why do you think all these guys want to go play for the Knicks? Isiah Thomas and his brilliant GM skills? The wonderfu record over the last decade? Yes they had the money, but they want to play on the big stage in the Big Apple at MSG in NYC. They have more or less said this.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

First off Carmello has been wanting to go to NY for a while. Amare signing there had nothing to do with it. Second, why do you think all these guys want to go play for the Knicks? Isiah Thomas and his brilliant GM skills? The wonderfu record over the last decade? Yes they had the money, but they want to play on the big stage in the Big Apple at MSG in NYC. They have more or less said this.

If team A in a small market and team B in a big market both have a lot of cap space, then I'd agree that team B has an advantage there. I'm saying it isn't the be all end all, though. First and foremost players want to get paid or win, or both ideally. The Knicks showed they were serious about winning when they outbid the Suns for Amare. That sets the tone and lets other players know you're serious about winning. As opposed to The Kings who did absolutely nothing in free agency. If you want to be taken seriously by big free agents, you have to actually made a public effort to get one every once in awhile. If The Kings had pursued Amare as aggressively as The Knicks did, who knows what would have happened. He made it pretty clear that he was about getting paid and not necessarily where he played.

 

[Hoovtrain]

If team A in a small market and team B in a big market both have a lot of cap space, then I'd agree that team B has an advantage there. I'm saying it isn't the be all end all, though. First and foremost players want to get paid or win, or both ideally. The Knicks showed they were serious about winning when they outbid the Suns for Amare. That sets the tone and lets players know you're for real. As opposed to The Kings who did absolutely nothing in free agency. If you want to be taken seriously by big free agents, you have to actually made public effort to get one. If The Kings had pursued Amare as aggressively as The Knicks did, who knows what would have happened. He made it pretty clear that he was about getting paid and not necessarily where he played.

Yes, that was all I was trying to say. A big market is clearly going to have an advantage vs. a small market. As far as the Knicks outbidding the Suns, that really wasn't the case. Amare was ready to go no matter what. He said numerous times he wanted to go to a bigger market (and a bigger paycheck) PHX just happened to not want to spend the money. Couple that with NY's plan B capspace, it was a no brainer. I will say this, NY overpaid for a 2nd tier superstar. So I guess even the big markets have to overpay every now and then.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Yes, that was all I was trying to say. A big market is clearly going to have an advantage vs. a small market. As far as the Knicks outbidding the Suns, that really wasn't the case. Amare was ready to go no matter what. He said numerous times he wanted to go to a bigger market (and a bigger paycheck) PHX just happened to not want to spend the money. Couple that with NY's plan B capspace, it was a no brainer. I will say this, NY overpaid for a 2nd tier superstar. So I guess even the big markets have to overpay every now and then.

Only if all other things are equal leaving market size as the deciding factor. A small market can still be a more attractive destination than a big one based on winning history and current state of the team. for example, Minneapolis is three times bigger of a market than Salt Lake City but i don't think anyone would claim that the Timberwoves can attract free agents more easily than the Jazz. it's all about perception and the Jazz are perceived as a winning organization and the Timbwerwolve are perceived as a losing organization which gives the Jazz the advantage in spite of being a much smaller market.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Only if all other things are equal leaving market size as the deciding factor. A small market can still be a more attractive destination than a big one based on winning history and current state of the team. for example, Minneapolis is three times bigger of a market than Salt Lake City but i don't think anyone would claim that the Timberwoves can attract free agents more easily than the Jazz. it's all about perception and the Jazz are perceived as a winning organization and the Timbwerwolve are perceived as a losing organization which gives the Jazz the advantage in spite of being a much smaller market.

Other than Boozer, what big FA has Utah signed? Not to discredit guys like Okur and Bell, but neither Utah or MIN are generally considered FA hotspots. Utah's success has generally been a result of drafts.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Other than Boozer, what big FA has Utah signed? Not to discredit guys like Okur and Bell, but neither Utah or MIN are generally considered FA hotspots. Utah's success has generally been a result of drafts.

I'm not too familiar at the moment with past free agent signings. I'd need to look those up to refresh my memory. I was just trying to demonstrate that Utah is a more attractive free agent destination than Minnesota. If you really stop and think about though, prior to this last season which was crazy, we've never really seen a lot of big name free agent moves. Most of the big free agents tend to resign with the teams that drafted them. Usually teams get good through the draft or with trades and then add role players in free agency. Also, Vlade was one of the best FA signings I can think of and that was before The kings were even any good.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I'm not too familiar at the moment with past free agent signings. I'd need to look those up to refresh my memory. I was just trying to demonstrate that Utah is a more attractive free agent destination than Minnesota. If you really stop and think about though, prior to this last season which was crazy, we've never really seen a lot of big name free agent moves. Most of the big free agents tend to resign with the teams that drafted them. Usually teams get good through the draft or with trades and then add role players in free agency. Also, Vlade was one of the best FA signings I can think of and that was before The kings were even any good.

As much as i love Vlade, he was a 2nd tier FA that was paid 1st tier money. Yes the kings were not very good when they signed Vlade, but there was a reason why they had to overpay to secure his services. On a side note, trying to post from an I phone sucks. Got to love the apple auto correct.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

As much as i love Vlade, he was a 2nd tier FA that was paid 1st tier money. Yes the kings were not very good when they signed Vlade, but there was a reason why they had to overpay to secure his services. On a side note, trying to post from an I phone sucks. Got to love the apple auto correct.

That's kind of part of the point I was making though. With the exception of last year, how many recent 1st tier free agent signings can you think of that weren't guys resigning with teams they were already on? Shaq is the only one I can think of off hand and that was nearly 15 years ago.

 

[Hoovtrain]

That's kind of part of the point I was making though. With the exception of last year, how many recent 1st tier free agent signings can you think of that weren't guys resigning with teams they were already on? Shaq is the only one I can think of off hand and that was nearly 15 years ago.

Nash is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. My whole point is that small market teams have to overpay in order to get a FA of value. A bigger market like Anaheim is much more condusive to luring FA's.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Nash is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. My whole point is that small market teams have to overpay in order to get a FA of value. A bigger market like Anaheim is much more condusive to luring FA's.

Time will tell. Personally, I think if The Kings were staying and a new arena was getting built that they'd have as good a chance getting free agents here as in Anaheim. I just think the idea that smaller markets can't compete or that it's harder for them to compete in general is inaccurate. Look at San Antonio and Salt Lake City. The two smallest markets in the league but also two of the best. All teams could learn a lesson from those two franchises about stability. They found a good coach and stuck with them no matter what. Stability is also attractive to prospective players. No one wants to go to Sacramento because the team has sucked for the last five years but had they hung on to Adelman and stayed somewhat respectable, i think things would be a little different now.

 

[Lafayette]

I will follow the Kings where ever they go and what ever they are called. I am a fan of the Kings and not a fan of Sacramento. Isn't this a silly debate?

Ditto!

 

[Hoovtrain]

Time will tell. Personally, I think if The Kings were staying and a new arena was getting built that they'd have as good a chance getting free agents here as in Anaheim. I just think the idea that smaller markets can't compete or that it's harder for them to compete in general is inaccurate. Look at San Antonio and Salt Lake City. The two smallest markets in the league but also two of the best. All teams could learn a lesson from those two franchises about stability. They found a good coach and stuck with them no matter what. Stability is also attractive to prospective players. No one wants to go to Sacramento because the team has sucked for the last five years but had they hung on to Adelman and stayed somewhat respectable, i think things would be a little different now.

Yes but Rookie, your reference to SA and Salt Lake City has no relevance to what we are debating. These 2 teams do not have a history of signing FA's. Their success has been a result of smart drafting and stability in FO and HC, as you said. We were not debating whether a small market can compete, but rather how it is easier to lure big FA's if you are in a bigger market. That is the debate at hand, or at least that's what I thought.

 

[BayAreaKingsFan]

As several posters have alluded earlier in this thread, everyone has their own feelings on this subject, and it doesn't really matter which side of the fence you're on. You're going to have the group that's going to stick with the team no matter what, while others (myself included) are going to be really bitter and sad about them leaving.

But in looking at the threads on this board and others the last few days, I would say that 80-90% of the people who are in the "I'm going to stay a fan of the team no matter where they go, what they're called, etc." group do not currently live in the Sacramento area. They watch their games on TV anyway, so it's obviously not going to matter where they play as much.

I on the other hand, live and work less then a mile from Arco and will constantly see reminders of what it was like to have them there. I've been going to games at the Arena since I was 8 years old, so I'm obviously going to be more emotionally vested then fans who have watched from afar. My 7 year old son has become infatuated with the team and is heartbroken at the idea that he can no longer go their games.

So us local fans are going to be alot more angry and resentful then others, because they were a part of the fabric of the community we live in.

And we don't need "out-of-towners" or "former Sac residents" to constantly come on this board and tell us to look at the freakin bright side of them moving!!!!! No matter how rational your argument may or may not be, and how much it could benefit the team in the long run, we don't give a rat's a$$!!!! To us, the Kings are Sacramento, and without Sacramento they may as well be the Clippers, Suns, Hornets, etc....

So let us vent, and be emotional at this time..... don't try to tell us it's going to be ok......

Thank you!!

 

[Hoovtrain]

As several posters have alluded earlier in this thread, everyone has their own feelings on this subject, and it doesn't really matter which side of the fence you're on. You're going to have the group that's going to stick with the team no matter what, while others (myself included) are going to be really bitter and sad about them leaving.

But in looking at the threads on this board and others the last few days, I would say that 80-90% of the people who are in the "I'm going to stay a fan of the team no matter where they go, what they're called, etc." group do not currently live in the Sacramento area. They watch their games on TV anyway, so it's obviously not going to matter where they play as much.

I on the other hand, live and work less then a mile from Arco and will constantly see reminders of what it was like to have them there. I've been going to games at the Arena since I was 8 years old, so I'm obviously going to be more emotionally vested then fans who have watched from afar. My 7 year old son has become infatuated with the team and is heartbroken at the idea that he can no longer go their games.

So us local fans are going to be alot more angry and resentful then others, because they were a part of the fabric of the community we live in.

And we don't need "out-of-towners" or "former Sac residents" to constantly come on this board and tell us to look at the freakin bright side of them moving!!!!! No matter how rational your argument may or may not be, and how much it could benefit the team in the long run, we don't give a rat's a$$!!!! To us, the Kings are Sacramento, and without Sacramento they may as well be the Clippers, Suns, Hornets, etc....

So let us vent, and be emotional at this time..... don't try to tell us it's going to be ok......

Thank you!!

I fall in to that 10% to 20% that was born here and currently live here, and will still root for the Kings no matter how painful it may be if they leave. I understand where you are coming from, but must respectfully disagree with you on the bolded part. To me they are always going to be the Sacramento Kings, no matter where they may be. That's just my feeling though, and I know there are many other's that share your point of view. Maybe I am just living in a state of denial

 

[Glenn]

We all have our ideas, we will not be changed by what someone else says, and why are we writing to each other unless we need our views validated?

 

[BayAreaKingsFan]

We all have our ideas, we will not be changed by what someone else says, and why are we writing to each other unless we need our views validated?

People write on this board and others to have their ideas HEARD, not validated -- you have over 1100 posts, and so going by your theory, you must have needed a lot of validation...

 

[Padrino]

We all have our ideas, we will not be changed by what someone else says, and why are we writing to each other unless we need our views validated?

this is precisely why. in times of emotional neediness, validation is extremely important to the psyche of the individual. writing a lawmaker who may or may not think twice about a letter of plea received from john or jane doe does not necessarily satisfy this neediness. feedback is important, whether it be positive or negative. that's why the message board, in general, is such a lynchpin of emotional release. the individual often gets immediate feedback. changing somebody else's ideological sensibility is rarely the goal. it's simply a place for ideas to be voiced, because the ears of those in power are rarely turned in the direction of those voices, especially if they're in the minority...

now, i applaud those in the sacramento area who are attempting to accomplish something that could be deemed "productive" towards keeping the kings in sacramento. but its still the 11th hour, and the voices of the little people still ring so quietly in sacramento when compared to the stone-walled, conservative, definitive views of those in office. if swaying the opinions of those on a fan forum seems like an unwieldy task, then consider the task of attempting to sway the opinions of lawmakers who have been trying to eradicate the kings from sacramento for years now!! its especially daunting, and while its certainly less productive to shout about it on message boards than shouting about it in more civic venues, i also don't think it's too difficult to appreciate why kings fans have flooded back to kingsfans.com for emotional support in a difficult time...

 

[king07]

Good thing I'm moving out of the country soon and will no longer be exposed to basketball. I would hate to be living in Sacramento after this year and have to deal with any of those scenarios. I personally would not be able to root for any of those teams including Kings in Anaheim, even though in the past i've said impulsively that I will become a warriors fans if the Kings move. I just wouldn't be able to do it and I sure as hell wouldn't be able to root for a socal team.

 

[Section 101]

Yes but Rookie, your reference to SA and Salt Lake City has no relevance to what we are debating. These 2 teams do not have a history of signing FA's. Their success has been a result of smart drafting and stability in FO and HC, as you said. We were not debating whether a small market can compete, but rather how it is easier to lure big FA's if you are in a bigger market. That is the debate at hand, or at least that's what I thought.

Free agents go to winning franchises. Doesn't matter what city they are in. Why do you think Lebron went to the heat instead of the knicks? Riley is a winner period. And no matter where the clippers play the owner is the reason they dont get free agents.

 

[Glenn]

this is precisely why. in times of emotional neediness, validation is extremely important to the psyche of the individual. writing a lawmaker who may or may not think twice about a letter of plea received from john or jane doe does not necessarily satisfy this neediness. feedback is important, whether it be positive or negative. that's why the message board, in general, is such a lynchpin of emotional release. the individual often gets immediate feedback. changing somebody else's ideological sensibility is rarely the goal. it's simply a place for ideas to be voiced, because the ears of those in power are rarely turned in the direction of those voices, especially if they're in the minority...

now, i applaud those in the sacramento area who are attempting to accomplish something that could be deemed "productive" towards keeping the kings in sacramento. but its still the 11th hour, and the voices of the little people still ring so quietly in sacramento when compared to the stone-walled, conservative, definitive views of those in office. if swaying the opinions of those on a fan forum seems like an unwieldy task, then consider the task of attempting to sway the opinions of lawmakers who have been trying to eradicate the kings from sacramento for years now!! its especially daunting, and while its certainly less productive to shout about it on message boards than shouting about it in more civic venues, i also don't think it's too difficult to appreciate why kings fans have flooded back to kingsfans.com for emotional support in a difficult time...

Thanks. I needed the education.

 

[kennadog]

Telling other people how they should feel is is stupid and completely devoid of sensitivity. Nobody's feelings are wrong, Feelings are just feelings, period. However anybody here feels, it just is how they feel. But to insult and criticize the fans in Sacramento like they are crybabies is beyond insulting. We have no reason to apologize or cover up our hurt feelings. We are losing something that has been part of the identity of the city we call home. So let us grieve however each one of us needs to and just shut up, because it is obviously beyond your understanding. Some Sacramento fans will choose to keep following the Kings and some won't. I will find it very painful to follow the Kings and it just won't be the same, ever. It may take me sone time to get over it, before I can watch a Kings game, without a teaqr and regrets.

Right now, I just wish the people criticizing us or trying to convince us our feelings are wrong would just LAY OFF IT!

 

[Hoovtrain]

Free agents go to winning franchises. Doesn't matter what city they are in. Why do you think Lebron went to the heat instead of the knicks? Riley is a winner period. And no matter where the clippers play the owner is the reason they dont get free agents.

Yeah, because MIA is such a small market . The whole point of this debate is whether or not being in a bigger market helps lure bigger FA's. I honestly don't see how it's even debatable that being in a bigger market is clearly going to give a team an advantage when courting FA's. There is a reason why Amare went to NY (clearly money as well) and a reason why Carmello just forced a trade there. Last time I checked, the Clips signed Baron Davis to a pretty hefty FA deal a couple years ago. There is a reason why Artest took significantly less money to sign with the Lakers. He could have gone to SA or UT, but he wanted to be in LA, just like Davis. And honestly, I believe Lebron didn't go to the Knicks because deep down he didn't feel he could deal with the pressure of playing on the biggest basketball stage of them all. There were actually some articles written about this. I will have to find them.

 

[AleksandarN]

As several posters have alluded earlier in this thread, everyone has their own feelings on this subject, and it doesn't really matter which side of the fence you're on. You're going to have the group that's going to stick with the team no matter what, while others (myself included) are going to be really bitter and sad about them leaving.

But in looking at the threads on this board and others the last few days, I would say that 80-90% of the people who are in the "I'm going to stay a fan of the team no matter where they go, what they're called, etc." group do not currently live in the Sacramento area. They watch their games on TV anyway, so it's obviously not going to matter where they play as much.

I on the other hand, live and work less then a mile from Arco and will constantly see reminders of what it was like to have them there. I've been going to games at the Arena since I was 8 years old, so I'm obviously going to be more emotionally vested then fans who have watched from afar. My 7 year old son has become infatuated with the team and is heartbroken at the idea that he can no longer go their games.

So us local fans are going to be alot more angry and resentful then others, because they were a part of the fabric of the community we live in.

And we don't need "out-of-towners" or "former Sac residents" to constantly come on this board and tell us to look at the freakin bright side of them moving!!!!! No matter how rational your argument may or may not be, and how much it could benefit the team in the long run, we don't give a rat's a$$!!!! To us, the Kings are Sacramento, and without Sacramento they may as well be the Clippers, Suns, Hornets, etc....

So let us vent, and be emotional at this time..... don't try to tell us it's going to be ok......

Thank you!!

Says who. That is very ignorant of you. What makes you think you and the rest of the local fans are more emotionally invested then people who do not live close by?

 

[Section 101]

Yeah, because MIA is such a small market . The whole point of this debate is whether or not being in a bigger market helps lure bigger FA's. I honestly don't see how it's even debatable that being in a bigger market is clearly going to give a team an advantage when courting FA's. There is a reason why Amare went to NY (clearly money as well) and a reason why Carmello just forced a trade there. Last time I checked, the Clips signed Baron Davis to a pretty hefty FA deal a couple years ago. There is a reason why Artest took significantly less money to sign with the Lakers. He could have gone to SA or UT, but he wanted to be in LA, just like Davis. And honestly, I believe Lebron didn't go to the Knicks because deep down he didn't feel he could deal with the pressure of playing on the biggest basketball stage of them all. There were actually some articles written about this. I will have to find them.

Gee, maybe Amare went becasuse A. they paid him. B. His old coach was there. Carmelo wanted to go there because A. He is from there B. His wife works there. Artest went to the lakers for one reason, getting a ring. It had nothing to do with LA.

It used to be that bigger markets were better because of the ads and marketing deals players could get. That has changed alot the past 20 years. The superstars are getting national ads and everyone has a shoe deal these days.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Gee, maybe Amare went becasuse A. they paid him. B. His old coach was there. Carmelo wanted to go there because A. He is from there B. His wife works there. Artest went to the lakers for one reason, getting a ring. It had nothing to do with LA.

It used to be that bigger markets were better because of the ads and marketing deals players could get. That has changed alot the past 20 years. The superstars are getting national ads and everyone has a shoe deal these days.

As I stated earlier, I conceded that part of the reason Amare went there was money. D'antoni had nothing to do with it. They didn't even get along in PHX. The big NY market coupled with the money was why.
And I'm pretty damn sure the allure of NY played a role to Carmel and his wife. Artest had been saying for years that wanted to go to LA to help expand his blossoming rap/production career. You don't think LA played a part in that? We can argue about this until we are blue in the face. So my question to you is, do you you think being in a bigger market helps attract bigger FA's? Simple question.

 

[Section 101]

As I stated earlier, I conceded that part of the reason Amare went there was money. D'antoni had nothing to do with it. They didn't even get along in PHX. The big NY market coupled with the money was why.
And I'm pretty damn sure the allure of NY played a role to Carmel and his wife. Artest had been saying for years that wanted to go to LA to help expand his blossoming rap/production career. You don't think LA played a part in that? We can argue about this until we are blue in the face. So my question to you is, do you you think being in a bigger market helps attract bigger FA's? Simple question.

Artest is from NY, he could further his rap career by going there. But he wouldnt have gotten a ring. Does a bigger market help? Depends on the market and the player, but I don't think its as important as it used to be with the global marketing now. What's more important to the players is a franchise that is commited to winning and has a winning history.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Artest is from NY, he could further his rap career by going there. But he wouldnt have gotten a ring.

Ok, so he was deciding between the 2 biggest markets and opted for the superior team. Like he was really choosing a lesser market by opting for LA? You still did not answer my question about big markets vs. Small markets and FA's

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Says who. That is very ignorant of you. What makes you think you and the rest of the local fans are more emotionally invested then people who do not live close by?

The fact that the non locals are mostly the ones who will still follow the team demonstrates that pretty clearly. There's nothing that unites a region like rooting for your sports team. outside fans can still be just as passionate but they never have that same level of attachment that local fans do.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Yes but Rookie, your reference to SA and Salt Lake City has no relevance to what we are debating. These 2 teams do not have a history of signing FA's. Their success has been a result of smart drafting and stability in FO and HC, as you said. We were not debating whether a small market can compete, but rather how it is easier to lure big FA's if you are in a bigger market. That is the debate at hand, or at least that's what I thought.

Sorry if I got off track there. I was pretty tired when I posted that. Basically, the point I was trying to make towards the end is that big name free agent signing are rare, period. There hasn't been enough of them to say that big or small markets have an advantage. too small of a sample size. Which is why i still maintain that attracting free agents has little to do with market size in most cases.