Last Night's Broadcast--The real Grant

[bajaden]

There is a school of thought that "agree to disagree" is a tacit admission that you can't defend your position on the merits. I happen to personally subscribe to that school of thought; it looks like swisshh might, also.

Now this is a funny statement from someone that I consider a bright person. Let me see. I like liver and you don't. What are the merits of my statement. Hmmmm! let me see. Ahhhh, it has a lot of iron in it. Let me see, there has to be something else. Yeah, I like it.

Come on! Your smarter than that. I like him and you don't. Thats where it ends. What am I suspossed to do. Talk about all the charities he supports. What a wonderful husband and father he is. If he is? Its subjective. To say that I'm unable to defend the merits of my argument is just plain ridiculous. I don't have to defend liking anything. Its a matter of my taste. And if you or anyone else doesn't happen to like my taste in broadcasters then thats just too damm bad!!!!!!

 

[Luv4Kings]

I am going to disagree with you on this portion of your post. I actually feel that Grant is not very in tune with what is going on in the game. So many times something will happen in the game, like a foul for instance. It is clear from the couch what the foul was and who it was on, yet Grant will continually make the wrong call on what the foul was and who on. One example off of the top of my head was the game in PHX the other night. Lopez barreled over Thompson for a layup, then as Thompson went to the ground Lopez flips ball to him in what should have been a T. Thompson responds by throwing the ball back down the court at Lopez and hits Amare, who then responds by throwing the ball back at JT. Well Thompson gets the T and Grant and Jerry spend the next minute trying to figure out why JT got the T. They then come to the conclusion after watching replays (while a potential confrontation between Amare and JT is brewing. This should be another thread, the horrible camera work and timing on the broadcasts) that the T was issued because he must have complained when it was clear to everyone watching that it happened because he threw the ball at Lopez. Not one mention of this was made. It's stuff like that that irritates me to no end watching his broadcasts. How come I can tell what’s going on from my home while he has the luxury of a front row seat and a monitor and still can't get the correct calls or be able pick up on the details of the game.

I guess I should have put in a smiley face to show that I wrote that in what I thought was dripping with sarcasm...

 

[Luv4Kings]

Hey, I find Bayless very interesting to listen to. I just don't believe anything he says. I'm not a big Jim Rome fan. But he must be doing something right. He continues to get ratings.

Look, this whole conservation, if thats what it is, is an exercise in futility. As long as Grant gets ratings, he's not going anywhere. That includes both his radio show and his Kings broadcasts. Some may not like that and want it changed. Thats life in the big city folks. It is what it is. If you don't like it, don't listen. I believe in freedom of speech. I don't believe in censorship. I don't want a select few deciding what I can or can not listen to. Therefore at times there are people on the airwaves that I can't stand. You've got to take the bad with the good. Or vice-versa.

I also like playing devils advocate....

I'm not sure anyone called for Grant to be fired. I think we were just explaining why we don't like him or listen to him if we don't have to.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

As long as Grant gets ratings, he's not going anywhere. That includes both his radio show and his Kings broadcasts. ome may not like that and want it changed.

This is why I've turned his show off, and the next neilson guide I get will reflect this.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I guess I should have put in a smiley face to show that I wrote that in what I thought was dripping with sarcasm...

Oh thank god. I was really trying to keep myself composed while writing a response.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Your reasoning is pretty ridiculous. I'm saying that tons of people listen to Grant when he's on the Rome show. Your argument is basically, 'well it sucks.......'

No, my argument is that tons of people have bad judgement. "Tons of people" watch American Idol. "Tons of people" listen to Rush Limbaugh. I don't trust "tons of people."

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive: something can be really popular and still be really bad.

 

[cstorm]

...I like liver and you don't. What are the merits of my statement. Hmmmm! let me see. Ahhhh, it has a lot of iron in it. Let me see, there has to be something else. Yeah, I like it...

Liver! Really? Yuk.

 

[kupman]

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive: something can be really popular and still be really bad.

Starbucks proves this.

 

[Rookie]

No, my argument is that tons of people have bad judgement. "Tons of people" watch American Idol. "Tons of people" listen to Rush Limbaugh. I don't trust "tons of people."

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive: something can be really popular and still be really bad.

Like some stated..its all perception.

You don't trust tons of people and so do I but I wouldn't say their judgement are bad because they like something and you don't. Now that's bad judgement.

Not everyone find basketball fun to watch..does that mean they have bad judgement?

 

[cstorm]

Starbucks proves this.

Not to mention every boy band ever known and half the teen pop stars who grace the airwaves...and country music...(trying to sneak that one by )

 

[Rookie]

Starbucks proves this.

Bad to you..which is ok. I don't like starbucks either. My wife does, does it mean she has bad taste?

I doubt it because she married me.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Now this is a funny statement from someone that I consider a bright person. Let me see. I like liver and you don't. What are the merits of my statement. Hmmmm! let me see. Ahhhh, it has a lot of iron in it. Let me see, there has to be something else. Yeah, I like it.

bajaden, please re-read my initial foray into this discussion. And also re-read all of my replies. I don't take issue with people liking Napear; I take issue with people saying that Napear is one of the best in the business. He isn't, so I replied to say so. And then people started replying with "Well, you just don't like Grant because of such and such." And I replied, "No, I don't like Grant because I don't think he's any good."

I mean, I've already clarified my position in post #36, but I guess I have to do it again: I don't have a problem with people saying that they like Napear, I have a problem with people saying that Napear is one of the best. Saying that he's good because his show is popular, or hasn't been fired, is a poor argument, and I and others have pointed out why.



TL,DR: Like Napear all you want; just don't try and convince me that he's any good.

 

[ESP47]

You think I'm the type of fan that would have a problem with a media personality talking bad about Kings players? Are you new here? I challenge you to find anything in my post history that portrays me as a "glass half full/protect the shield" type of fan.

You want to know why I don't like Napear? Just apply Occam's Razor. Instead of trying to fabricate reasons like he bashes players, or he doesn't treat players like the "second coming of MJ" (which is a Straw Man if I've ever heard one), don't overlook the obvious: that I simply don't think he's good at his job. The same way that I didn't think that Angela Tsai was good at her job. I think that his play-by-play is not any good, and Reynolds' color commentary is even worse.

The only television broadcast crews that are clearly worse than Napear and Reynolds are:

Boston
New York
Miami
San Antonio
Golden State
Houston

These crews are as good or slightly better:

Phoenix
Orlando
Cleveland
Los Angeles Clippers
New Jersey
Detroit

And these crews, in my opinion, are clearly better:

Portland
Oklahoma City
Charlotte
Toronto
Utah
Atlanta
Denver
Minnesota
New Orleans
Chicago
Indiana
Dallas
Memphis
Philadelphia
Washington
Milwaukee
Los Angeles lakers

Maybe I'm the only one, but I have a very hard time believing that you've watched so much basketball, that you can formulate a list in your head of every teams announcing team and then list them in groups from best to worst. Not only does that require watching tons and tons of games involving every team, but it also involves watching a ton of games from their market so you hear their announcers. Unless you're a sports journalist, I just don't believe that you've watched every teams market so many times that you can accurately come up with a list like that without just guessing on half the teams.

 

[bajaden]

This is why I've turned his show off, and the next neilson guide I get will reflect this.

There you go! Thats the only way to affect someone on the air. Now if you were just one of ten listeners that would have impact.

 

[bajaden]

bajaden, please re-read my initial foray into this discussion. And also re-read all of my replies. I don't take issue with people liking Napear; I take issue with people saying that Napear is one of the best in the business. He isn't, so I replied to say so. And then people started replying with "Well, you just don't like Grant because of such and such." And I replied, "No, I don't like Grant because I don't think he's any good."

I mean, I've already clarified my position in post #36, but I guess I have to do it again: I don't have a problem with people saying that they like Napear, I have a problem with people saying that Napear is one of the best. Saying that he's good because his show is popular, or hasn't been fired, is a poor argument, and I and others have pointed out why.



TL,DR: Like Napear all you want; just don't try and convince me that he's any good.

Point taken. And I won't. Just don't touch my Liver...

 

[NME]

Just don't touch my Liver...

There's a visual!

 

[swisshh]

There is no cop out. I happen to disagree with your opinion of Grant. You don't like him, I do. You think he's boring, I don't. My opinion is just as good as your opinion. Your problem is that you don't respect anyone else's opinion but your own, or those that agree with you. I do!!!!!! So I don't call your opinion a cop out.

You want to fight over this. I could care less. You want to be right and you want everyone to admit that your right. Sorry, as I said, its subjective. Some people like reality TV. Some don't!!!!! There is no right or wrong when it comes to the media, unless their lying to you. And if they are, don't listen!! Its real simple.

Look, if someone likes pistachio nut ice cream, I respect that. Though respect really isn't the issue here.

Let me try to deal this out. Ultimately, people are confusing preference with quality.

I like black walnut ice cream at Baskin Robbins. Let's say you'd rather have chocolate ice cream than black walnut. Fine. You prefer chocolate to black walnut, and as of this moment, I prefer black walnut to chocolate. Now what if I were to say chocolate is the most vile taste on the planet? Is that still a respectable opinion? Chocolate has become a mainstay flavor for reasons. Would it not bring into question my ability to determine quality? To use Brick's lady example, I'll say I prefer Jennifer Connelly to Kate Beckinsale. Now I hope that can be 'respected', but if one says Connelly is a vile looking creature. . . should they be judging the issue of what is attractive? Are they to be taken seriously? There is a sort of science to beauty, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

This is the basis of criticism. Roger Ebert isn't king of film critics because he looks good on camera. He has researched films and studied them. He puts effort into this.

So,

My opinion is just as good as your opinion.

Shows that maybe your opinion is opinion same as what my opinion would be, but I am offering analysis and actually paying attention to what we're discussing. What you don't realize is that I am not offering opinion. I am not trying to get you to try black walnut ice cream. I am speaking from listening to play-by-play guys and radio shows, and looking for quality and weakness. You're still on the base level of opinion. So you're point is not as good as mine, because I back my point up. Grant is full of crutches, he employs a lower level audience and exists as just another sports media parrot. If you can not respond to these issues then you are using a cop-out. Give your 'opinion' merit and we will then be working at the same level.

 

[Luv4Kings]

I think Slim is trying to claim a difference between "I like something" and an evaluation of performance against certain standards.

If we all agreed on what standards we had for a play-by-play announcer and then evaluated each broadcaster according to those expectations, then we'd have a grading system whereby Napier would have a ranking.

I think Slim has as set of standards in mind and he's evaluating Grant accordingly. The problem is, we may not all agree on the standards to begin with and therefore, can't come to an evaluation of Grant that we can all agree on.

 

[Rookie]

I am offering analysis and actually paying attention to what we're discussing. What you don't realize is that I am not offering opinion. I am not trying to get you to try black walnut ice cream. I am speaking from listening to play-by-play guys and radio shows, and looking for quality and weakness. You're still on the base level of opinion. So you're point is not as good as mine, because I back my point up. Grant is full of crutches, he employs a lower level audience and exists as just another sports media parrot. If you can not respond to these issues then you are using a cop-out. Give your 'opinion' merit and we will then be working at the same level.

I happen to like Grant and yes I do listen to other sport talk show. I watch other games beside the Kings on both TNT and ESPN. Some guy I like more than Grant and some guy I wish Grant would replace him. Don't tell me that your analysis is better than others and that others opinion is of lower quality without investigating why they made such an opinion. IMO assumption like that is arrogant.

I agreed with Slim in that he's not the top but difference is I like Grant and he doesn't. We both can move on...no need to think the other doesn't have as much understanding on what is good or bad announcer.

 

[Amory]

I was trying to not get involved in this post because I dislike Grants "attitude" probably more then anyone.

We use to turn the volume down on the kings games and put on 1140 (because of the delay it gets pretty annoying).

Also, makes me sick listening to him on the radio because he treats everyone like crap. People say that it is good because that makes more people listen to his show. I actually won't listen to Grant because he is such a jerk.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

No, my argument is that tons of people have bad judgement. "Tons of people" watch American Idol. "Tons of people" listen to Rush Limbaugh. I don't trust "tons of people."

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive: something can be really popular and still be really bad.

First of all, where did I say popular=good? You clearly took my post out of context, which is inaccurate on your part.

Second, you revert back to the idea that 'you don't trust tons of people'. Again, you are one opinion. Awesome for you. My big point is that many people apparently like it, which doesn't have anything to do with what you think.

Hopefully you won't repeat your argument for a third time.

 

[G_M]

Sacramento is the 27th largest radio market in the country.

Why would KHTK employ the guy and the Maloofs keep him on the payroll if he was no good? Aren't they in the entertainment business?

Like baja has said I have no dog in this hunt but I'm fascinated year in year out at the amount of chatter created by a radio/play by play guy. I guess I'm too busy watching the game to really scrutinize what he is saying....

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I have a very hard time believing that you've watched so much basketball, that you can formulate a list in your head of every teams announcing team and then list them in groups from best to worst. Not only does that require watching tons and tons of games involving every team, but it also involves watching a ton of games from their market so you hear their announcers. Unless you're a sports journalist, I just don't believe that you've watched every teams market so many times that you can accurately come up with a list like that without just guessing on half the teams.

Believe whatever you want to believe, I don't have to convince you. I will just say that I've had League Pass for seven years now and, apparently unlike many other Kings Fans here, I watch way more than just the Kings. Not only do I actively follow five other teams, and watch every game that they play when their schedule doesn't conflict with the Kings, but basketball is basically the only thing I watch on television at all; between League Pass' new deal of replaying the games until 1700 the next day, and League Pass Broadband, I basically spend my entire day off watching basketball. I can assure you that I've seen every local broadcast of every team in the NBA, dozens of times, and I have had plenty of opportunity to form what I feel is a fair opinion of their capabilities.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

First of all, where did I say popular=good? You clearly took my post out of context, which is inaccurate on your part.

Second, you revert back to the idea that 'you don't trust tons of people'. Again, you are one opinion. Awesome for you. My big point is that many people apparently like it, which doesn't have anything to do with what you think.

Hopefully you won't repeat your argument for a third time.

I am not rebutting your argument, and I never was in the first place, because you're saying something that has nothing to do with what I am. Your "big point" is irrelevant to my contribution to this thread. You keep telling me that he's popular, and people like his show, which has nothing to do with whether or not he is, objectively, any good. I don't care who likes Napear, just stop trying to tell me that he's good, when he isn't.

You seem to not be reading any of my posts where I don't quote you directly, so let me re-post what I said to bajaden, to spare me from having to repeat myself again:

bajaden, please re-read my initial foray into this discussion. And also re-read all of my replies. I don't take issue with people liking Napear; I take issue with people saying that Napear is one of the best in the business. He isn't, so I replied to say so. And then people started replying with "Well, you just don't like Grant because of such and such." And I replied, "No, I don't like Grant because I don't think he's any good."

I mean, I've already clarified my position in post #36, but I guess I have to do it again: I don't have a problem with people saying that they like Napear, I have a problem with people saying that Napear is one of the best. Saying that he's good because his show is popular, or hasn't been fired, is a poor argument, and I and others have pointed out why.



TL,DR: Like Napear all you want; just don't try and convince me that he's any good.

 

[tradepeja]

Gary Gerould is cash

 

[Aenadin]

gary gerould!!!!! heard clips of him in kings games usually and he is awesome!

why cant he broadcast the kings?

 

[PurpleHaze]

gary gerould!!!!! heard clips of him in kings games usually and he is awesome!

why cant he broadcast the kings?

The G-Man was original classy TV voice of the Kings and held that job for a couple seasons before Napear took over. As I recall, even later on in the 90's G-Man did a few fill in Kings TV broadcasts from time-to-time.

Back to the OP. I think Napear is adequate in his job as the local play-by-play TV guy. I dislike him most of all on his weekday radio sports talk show. There he's everything I said earlier in this thread as others have pointed out likewise.

BTW, G-Man all through 80's and 90's whined constantly about refs "bad calls" on the radio broadcasts and it was down right embarrassing. Finally, when the team started winning way more he wised up a lot. Now he chooses his spots much more carefully when crying and getting hysterical about some call against the Kings.

 

[bajaden]

Look, if someone likes pistachio nut ice cream, I respect that. Though respect really isn't the issue here.

Let me try to deal this out. Ultimately, people are confusing preference with quality.

I like black walnut ice cream at Baskin Robbins. Let's say you'd rather have chocolate ice cream than black walnut. Fine. You prefer chocolate to black walnut, and as of this moment, I prefer black walnut to chocolate. Now what if I were to say chocolate is the most vile taste on the planet? Is that still a respectable opinion? Chocolate has become a mainstay flavor for reasons. Would it not bring into question my ability to determine quality? To use Brick's lady example, I'll say I prefer Jennifer Connelly to Kate Beckinsale. Now I hope that can be 'respected', but if one says Connelly is a vile looking creature. . . should they be judging the issue of what is attractive? Are they to be taken seriously? There is a sort of science to beauty, even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

This is the basis of criticism. Roger Ebert isn't king of film critics because he looks good on camera. He has researched films and studied them. He puts effort into this.

So,



Shows that maybe your opinion is opinion same as what my opinion would be, but I am offering analysis and actually paying attention to what we're discussing. What you don't realize is that I am not offering opinion. I am not trying to get you to try black walnut ice cream. I am speaking from listening to play-by-play guys and radio shows, and looking for quality and weakness. You're still on the base level of opinion. So you're point is not as good as mine, because I back my point up. Grant is full of crutches, he employs a lower level audience and exists as just another sports media parrot. If you can not respond to these issues then you are using a cop-out. Give your 'opinion' merit and we will then be working at the same level.

Well thats probably the nicest condesending post that I've ever had. At least you've made me hungry. Let me go back to my orginal premise. Your posting as though your the supreme judge of what quality is. Your setting the standard. And thats fine in as far as it goes, as long as your setting the standard just for yourself. But your not. And I think you just called me part of a lower level audience. Thanks!

I never cared for heavy metal music. So I would probably call it something less than quality. But just because I don't like it, doesn't mean its not quality. Once again, its subjective. What you think is crap, someone else may think is just great. Now I'm fine with that. But you seem to be taking an elitist view that what you think is quality should be the standard for everyone. Now maybe I'm wrong about that, but thats how it sounds.

You seem to think that because you've listened to a wide assortment of radio broadcasters that your opinion is better than mine. Well I grew up with Harry Carrey and Jack Buck in St. Louis. I've probably listened to every anouncing team in the NBA over the years. I've listened to Curt Goudey and Keith Jackson. I've listened to KNBR, and I don't like the razor, but I do like Tom Tolbert. I think Bill King was one of the best announcers I've ever heard. Is that enough for you to respect my opinion? Am I qualified now? Are should I go on? And in the end, it still comes down to what an individual likes. Or not.

Now I've met Grant. I've been present when he preps for his radio show. I happened to be involved with someone that worked there. One thing I know about him is that he's the consummate professional when it comes to preparing for the show. On a personal level, I don't like the dude. But thats because of other reasons. And I try not to let my personal reasons affect my judgement of his air time. Its a matter of personal taste. I personally can't stand Kozimor. But I like him on a personal level. When I listen to a sports show, I want that person, or persons, to talk about sports. Not who they had dinner with last night. Not what movie they just saw. Or what musician they like the most. Grant talks sports. He gives me what I want. I don't always agree with him, but no one is perfect.

You don't like him. And thats fine. But please don't tell me I'm not on your level because of some nonsense about quality. Or because you happen to be more educated on sports shows than I'am, so you know better. I'm not trying to convince you to like him. I could care less. But don't go looking down your nose at that those who do like him. There is no right or wrong here. By the way, I like Black Walnut ice cream. And I like Chocolate. So I guess we don't have to argue over that one.

 

[Gary]

Remember that one Houston Rocket Broadcaster a while back.. ARGH. forgetting his name... Dangit.. He is on my list of worst ever but I cannot remember the guys name... DOH! He was much much worse than Grant imo heh.

I know he was a former player, and it's not Drexlet or Bullard... ERGH.. Someone has to remember who I am talking about.

 

[bajaden]

Believe whatever you want to believe, I don't have to convince you. I will just say that I've had League Pass for seven years now and, apparently unlike many other Kings Fans here, I watch way more than just the Kings. Not only do I actively follow five other teams, and watch every game that they play when their schedule doesn't conflict with the Kings, but basketball is basically the only thing I watch on television at all; between League Pass' new deal of replaying the games until 1700 the next day, and League Pass Broadband, I basically spend my entire day off watching basketball. I can assure you that I've seen every local broadcast of every team in the NBA, dozens of times, and I have had plenty of opportunity to form what I feel is a fair opinion of their capabilities.

I've also had league pass for a very long time. And I also watch a lot of other teams play. I just like basketball. But may I suggest, if you don't already, that you start watching more college basketball. Sometimes I just feel alone, and would like some company..