Larry Bird thinks we won the trade

The podcast was a great listen. Jerry and co suggested going after another SF/PF for the team like Patrick Williams.

He only played 5 games this season before undergoing a wrist surgery.

I would definitely do a Holmes + pick swap deal for Patrick Williams if the Bulls were interested. He's only 20 years-old, and the Bulls have no real big man depth behind Vucevic except for Tony Bradley.
 
I think we won the trade.

Guards are generally overhyped in this league because they handle the ball the most. Don't get me wrong. Tyrese is a really good player, but we got an all-star big man that we can build around.

Buddy could shoot, but his bbiq was roughly the temperature of a good sangiovese.

And, lest you think I have departed from my roots, I'm typing this as I eat pizza. Blessed Sunday to you all and I hope you went to church!
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
I think we won the trade.

Guards are generally overhyped in this league because they handle the ball the most. Don't get me wrong. Tyrese is a really good player, but we got an all-star big man that we can build around.

Buddy could shoot, but his bbiq was roughly the temperature of a good sangiovese.

And, lest you think I have departed from my roots. I'm typing this as I eat pizza. Blessed Sunday to you all and I hope you went to church!
Click to expand...
HE'S BACK EVERYBODY!
 
I think for the here and now, Kings got the best player in the deal. However, both teams had different strategies and I think both teams would be happy with their haul.

From Kings perspective, any time you can get an All-Star caliber player for a young promising player, a bad contract and expiring deal, you would be pretty happy with that return. Especially if you already have a borderline all-star type player already on your roster and you want to make a play odd team. Part of Fox's problem this year is that the ball has been taken out of his hands and he was playing more off ball. Now that the ball is back in his hands as the main ball handler, expect him to return to the level he was at last season and even improve on that going forward as he figures out a way to play off Sabonis.

From Pacer's perspective, if you are a team re-setting, trading away your best player for a young promising PG who has shown all-star potential, you do that trade every day. It has more certainty than a trade for mid first round picks.

I think both team are happy with their lot for the path they have chosen.
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
I think we won the trade.

Guards are generally overhyped in this league because they handle the ball the most. Don't get me wrong. Tyrese is a really good player, but we got an all-star big man that we can build around.

Buddy could shoot, but his bbiq was roughly the temperature of a good sangiovese.

And, lest you think I have departed from my roots, I'm typing this as I eat pizza. Blessed Sunday to you all and I hope you went to church!
Click to expand...
This is a really good point. As a basketball team, we got a LOT smarter and that is in a large way due to trading low basketball IQ players in Buddy and Marvin and replacing them with high basketball IQ player like Sabonis, Holidya, DiVincenzo et al.
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
I think we won the trade.

Guards are generally overhyped in this league because they handle the ball the most. Don't get me wrong. Tyrese is a really good player, but we got an all-star big man that we can build around.

Buddy could shoot, but his bbiq was roughly the temperature of a good sangiovese.

And, lest you think I have departed from my roots, I'm typing this as I eat pizza. Blessed Sunday to you all and I hope you went to church!
Click to expand...

Vinnnnnnnnnnnnnnerrtrrrrriiiiiiinnnnnnnoooo, same to you sir!
 
Larry is also right because one of the downsides of bigmen is usually that the ball goes into the post and doesnt come back out. Sabonis is an entire offensive strategy by himself, creating all sorts of movement and good shots for others. I am watching a completely different team than the one I wasn't watching a week ago.
 
Chupacabra said:
Larry is also right because one of the downsides of bigmen is usually that the ball goes into the post and doesnt come back out. Sabonis is an entire offensive strategy by himself, creating all sorts of movement and good shots for others. I am watching a completely different team than the one I wasn't watching a week ago.
Click to expand...

;) I'm right there with you Chupa!
 
Larry also told WCS he was a 100million dollar player, but it's to early to tell who won the trade right now and I don't think anyone is complaining about Sabonis.
 
ParniValjak said:
I think for the here and now, Kings got the best player in the deal. However, both teams had different strategies and I think both teams would be happy with their haul.

From Kings perspective, any time you can get an All-Star caliber player for a young promising player, a bad contract and expiring deal, you would be pretty happy with that return. Especially if you already have a borderline all-star type player already on your roster and you want to make a play odd team. Part of Fox's problem this year is that the ball has been taken out of his hands and he was playing more off ball. Now that the ball is back in his hands as the main ball handler, expect him to return to the level he was at last season and even improve on that going forward as he figures out a way to play off Sabonis.

From Pacer's perspective, if you are a team re-setting, trading away your best player for a young promising PG who has shown all-star potential, you do that trade every day. It has more certainty than a trade for mid first round picks.

I think both team are happy with their lot for the path they have chosen.
Click to expand...

This is it exactly.

A number of us have been clamoring for a full rebuild, but since it seems Vivek has given McNair orders to win now, these moves were about the best that could be done. Fox's value has likely dropped significantly around the league and he and Tyrese weren't an ideal pairing. Given that, trading Haliburton was likely the only way to improve this team significantly and in the short term.

I would have preferred to trade Fox for Domas, but I'm guessing that deal wasn't one Indiana was willing to do because they are looking to reset/rebuild and Haliburton's age & contract were big plusses for them, not to mention that he's the type of guard that fits on any roster.

But for all the hand wringing from the media, you'd think the Kings got no value from their biggest trade chip. Sabonis is on nearly the exact same timeline as Fox, is a 2x all-star, and exactly the type of big man you want to pair with an attacking, scoring guard like De'Aaron. While Holmes was a great fit with Hali as a vertical lob threat in the pick & roll, Domas is the kind of passer and screener you need to open up driving lanes for Fox and easy buckets for shooters. He unlocks Fox's game in a way that Tyrese couldn't. I love Haliburton's game. And I love rooting for the kid - something I'll continue to do even though I'll miss seeing him in a Kings uniform - but if the Kings weren't going to go to a full rebuild, this trade was about as good as it was going to get. For all the talk about Ben Simmons, this trade cost less than what Philly would have demanded and even if the Kings kept Fox, the fit would have been awkward at best. Sabonis fits perfectly.

And jettisoning Buddy, Thompson, and Bagley while getting back Holiday, Lamb, DiVincenzo, Lyles, and Jackson only makes this a smarter, deeper Kings team.

More than anything, I'm actually caring about this team again. Definitely a win-win deal in my book.
 
EIM86 said:
Larry is right imo. Finding a nice guard is way easier then finding a good big man
Click to expand...

Not a guard like Tyrese that can do everything well.

And this isn’t the 80’s, 90’s or even early 2000’s anymore.

The teams winning championships aren’t built around big men anymore.
Because the rules and style of play benefit wings and guards a lot more than post players.

Embiid is the only big playing today that harkens back to the days of old. When he chooses to plant himself inside and dominate, that is. And Embiid also provides a serious defensive presence.

What about those that don’t and are primarily offensive threats?

I wouldn’t hold your breath for the next time a team an offensive oriented BIG leads a team to a title over the top tier guards and wings of the league.

As someone that prefers the old days and old style which featured BIGS, I recognize that it ain’t happening under the current landscape.

That’s why Bagley over #77 was idiotic before a single Summer League game was played and why Sabonis over Tyrese will proven to be the wrong choice too.

Larry Bird thinks we won the trade because he’s still stuck in the past too.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Not a guard like Tyrese that can do everything well.

And this isn’t the 80’s, 90’s or even early 2000’s anymore.

The teams winning championships aren’t built around big men anymore.
Because the rules and style of play benefit wings and guards a lot more than post players.

Embiid is the only big playing today that harkens back to the days of old. When he chooses to plant himself inside and dominate, that is. And Embiid also provides a serious defensive presence.

What about those that don’t and are primarily offensive threats?

I wouldn’t hold your breath for the next time a team an offensive oriented BIG leads a team to a title over the top tier guards and wings of the league.

As someone that prefers the old days and old style which featured BIGS, I recognize that it ain’t happening under the current landscape.

That’s why Bagley over #77 was idiotic before a single Summer League game was played and why Sabonis over Tyrese will proven to be the wrong choice too.

Larry Bird thinks we won the trade because he’s still stuck in the past too.
Click to expand...


At 6 ft 11 in (2.11 m) and weighing close to 242 lbs, Milwaukee Bucks superstar Giannis Antetokounmpo is an actual ‘freak’ of nature.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Not a guard like Tyrese that can do everything well.

And this isn’t the 80’s, 90’s or even early 2000’s anymore.

The teams winning championships aren’t built around big men anymore.
Because the rules and style of play benefit wings and guards a lot more than post players.

Embiid is the only big playing today that harkens back to the days of old. When he chooses to plant himself inside and dominate, that is. And Embiid also provides a serious defensive presence.

What about those that don’t and are primarily offensive threats?

I wouldn’t hold your breath for the next time a team an offensive oriented BIG leads a team to a title over the top tier guards and wings of the league.

As someone that prefers the old days and old style which featured BIGS, I recognize that it ain’t happening under the current landscape.

That’s why Bagley over #77 was idiotic before a single Summer League game was played and why Sabonis over Tyrese will proven to be the wrong choice too.

Larry Bird thinks we won the trade because he’s still stuck in the past too.
Click to expand...

I guess defense isn't included in everything?
 
I'm sure if we could have traded Haliburton for a first ballot hall of famer we would have but not sure who is giving those away. I definitely was against this trade for some of the reasons 85 stated but we were going nowhere with Haliburton so something had to give. Trading the rest of the players we moved for a bunch of 2nd rounders or expirings isn't moving the needle. Sabonis will. Will it bring a parade down K street? eh. Could it get us to a WCF again - I think so.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I'm sure if we could have traded Haliburton for a first ballot hall of famer we would have but not sure who is giving those away. I definitely was against this trade for some of the reasons 85 stated but we were going nowhere with Haliburton so something had to give. Trading the rest of the players we moved for a bunch of 2nd rounders or expirings isn't moving the needle. Sabonis will. Will it bring a parade down K street? eh. Could it get us to a WCF again - I think so.
Click to expand...

If there's one thing I hate about the modern sports landscape, it's the championship or bust mentality. Would I like the Kings to win the championship? Sure. But I would also like them to play enjoyable basketball first. If this group caps out at a 6-7 seed or whatever, it's still miles ahead of what we're had before and we can at least figure out how to reach that next level while playing at a level that doesn't make me want to bash my brains in.
 
Last edited:
Tetsujin said:
If there's one thing I hate about the modern sports landscape, it's the championship or bust mentality. Would I like the Kings to win the championship? Sure. But I would also like them to play enjoyable basketball first. If this group caps out at a 6-7 seed or whatever, it's still miles ahead go what we're had before and we can at least figure out how to reach that next level while playing at a level that doesn't make me want to bash my brains in.
Click to expand...

It's a strange byproduct of the internet age, where everything must exist at the end of two poles. Everything is either the best thing ever or the worst thing ever. Moderation is no longer an admirable trait. Amongst NBA fans, this has translated to either competing for a championship or bottoming out as the only viable paths forward for any franchise.

Of course, I'd also agree with most that hopping onto a treadmill of mediocrity is hardly ideal. But when your franchise is a dumpster fire and fifteen years removed from the post-season, simply being a competent franchise and a consistent playoff contender has a ton of appeal. I'd love to see the Kings achieve a few seasons of sustained success before I even start worrying about whether or not the team's "core"--whatever shape it ultimately takes--is championship-worthy.
 
Its pretty simple. If you are going for the win now move, then you move Tyrese as he is more of a long term project than Fox. If you are going for a long term rebuild, then you are not trading in Sabonis and you are trading out Fox.

The fact that we picked the direction to win now, then the pick between trading Haliburton or Fox is pretty self explanatory.

This doesn't even take into the account what other team is looking for which clearly was a young player to add to their blow it up rebuild.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Not a guard like Tyrese that can do everything well.

And this isn’t the 80’s, 90’s or even early 2000’s anymore.

The teams winning championships aren’t built around big men anymore.
Because the rules and style of play benefit wings and guards a lot more than post players.

Embiid is the only big playing today that harkens back to the days of old. When he chooses to plant himself inside and dominate, that is. And Embiid also provides a serious defensive presence.

What about those that don’t and are primarily offensive threats?

I wouldn’t hold your breath for the next time a team an offensive oriented BIG leads a team to a title over the top tier guards and wings of the league.

As someone that prefers the old days and old style which featured BIGS, I recognize that it ain’t happening under the current landscape.

That’s why Bagley over #77 was idiotic before a single Summer League game was played and why Sabonis over Tyrese will proven to be the wrong choice too.

Larry Bird thinks we won the trade because he’s still stuck in the past too.
Click to expand...

i wouldn’t say Ty does everything well. His main strength is Bball IQ which is elite and a high percentage 3 pt shot. Outside of that and good but not elite handles he’s pretty average. Not fast, strong, athletic, shot takes long to load, and a poor defender

Also I think a good big man is still extremely important in todays game. Most teams aren’t built like the dubs or can be built like the dubs where they can afford to give up size. Outside of the dubs dynasty, basically every team had a legit big man a la PF/C
 
Last edited:
pdxKingsFan said:
I'm sure if we could have traded Haliburton for a first ballot hall of famer we would have but not sure who is giving those away. I definitely was against this trade for some of the reasons 85 stated but we were going nowhere with Haliburton so something had to give. Trading the rest of the players we moved for a bunch of 2nd rounders or expirings isn't moving the needle. Sabonis will. Will it bring a parade down K street? eh. Could it get us to a WCF again - I think so.
Click to expand...

Going nowhere *this year* but blowing it up and building around Haliburton is about having the chance to assemble a contender over a 3-5 year window. That’s 3-5 years to *start* competing, which is year 0 for us now. We tore up our runway for contention and moved our playoff window to today as year 0, where ideally we make the playoffs but definitely need to by next year. I trust this FO to find the right head coach and make the right further moves. And I also trust Jerry & Larry’s take. But will be disappointed if this group doesn’t overachieve because for better or worse the Tyrese trade is gonna color how I see things for a long time
 
EIM86 said:
i wouldn’t say Ty does everything well. His main strength is Bball IQ which is elite and a high percentage 3 pt shot. Outside of that and good but not elite handles he’s pretty average. Not fast, strong, athletic, shot takes long to load, and a poor defender

Also I think a good big men is still extremely important in todays game. Most teams aren’t built like the dubs or can be built like the dubs where they can afford to give up size. Outside of the dubs dynasty, basically every team had a legit big man a la PF/C
Click to expand...
And that's working under the assumption that Draymond isn't a "legit big man"
 
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