Lakers discussion

hoopsfan

hoopsfan

Starter
#91
#91
He just turned 20 freakin' years old and only played basketball his senoir year in high school. I'm in no way saying he's the next Kareem, but thanks to Kareem he's showing great promise that he could become a very good big man in the near future.

At least he's taking what his teammates are giving him and doing what he can with it. For a young guy with mininmal experience, he's got good hands and a good feel for his position.
 
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Futuristic

G-League
#92
#92
RKid said:
Lets not get ahead of ourselves futuristic, afterall these teams are mediocre to say the least. But Like you I like what I see, and I like the improvement.

If we beat Phoenix in about 10 days than I will really start to believe that this team might be able to play in San Antonio in May.

For a team that is the third youngest in the league, I must hand it to Mitch. He has made this rebuilding effort as painless as it could possibly be, it feels more like retooling than anything. But its not over till we get number 15.

Edit: Ok, Mitch traded Butler for Kwame and that was dumb. But the reasoning behinded at the time was not. imho.
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I'm with you. I'd be happy with taking it a game at a time, and winning tonight vs. the Hornets.
 
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Futuristic

G-League
#93
#93
Superman said:
I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but I think the point was that he's no Kareem, which is how people are pumping him up after a few good weeks of basketball.

He's showing promise, to be sure, but he still doesn't have a very polished offensive game, doesn't have the go-to post move that every good big man needs, and the majority of his production is coming off of his teammates work, not through any greatness of his.
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Must be talking about Lakers fans from elsewhere. I haven't seen declarations as those since I've been here. But I could be wrong.

As far as your observation about Bynum... my sentiments exactly. He has no go to move that he has solidified, and an alternate go to move in case he gets in trouble.

As far as the comments about his points coming off his teammates' work, I haven't seen many centers who do not that have to get assisted on, or get passed the ball to for a play.
 
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S

Superman

All-Star
#94
#94
Futuristic said:
Must be talking about Lakers fans from elsewhere. I haven't seen declarations as those since I've been here. But I could be wrong.
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I'm exaggerating, of course, but so are they. I'm just saying that Bynum isn't as good as the hype he's been getting lately, specifically after the Suns game a couple weeks ago.

As far as your observation about Bynum... my sentiments exactly. He has no go to move that he has solidified, and an alternate go to move in case he gets in trouble.

As far as the comments about his points coming off his teammates' work, I haven't seen many centers who do that have to get assisted on, or get passed the ball to for a play.
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No. I mean that his points are mostly put backs, broken down defenses with him cleaning up, etc. He's not dominating anyone. He never sees a double team. He isn't being keyed in on by the other team's defense. His production comes because he plays with Kobe Bryant and other players who are more of an offensive threat than he is. When Kobe drives the lane and Bynum's man helps, who's left open? When Odom misses a jumper and the other big man doesn't box out, who gets the tip jam?

When I say that his points are coming off his teammates work, I mean that he's not getting the ball in the post and going to work on his man. He's getting clean up points.
 
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vladetomiller

Bench
#95
#95
Totally agree with you Supe and dont know why Garg was skeptical about my earlier remark.

Positives for Bynum

Good hands
Athletic and typically outhustles / jumps higher than his counterpart
Runs the floor well to get post position for some easy dunks / layups
Defensively he is getting the refs respect this year and has been huge on that side against penetration
Good defensive and offensive rebounding

Negatives

Apart from a few moves he had shown that I can remember (one against Shaq in first year, against the clippers a couple of post moves, a few hooks here and there, sprinkled moves here and there that are not really making me go WOW but makes me sit up and watch him closer ) hasnt shown any consistent go to move

Totally clueless when double teams came and shows that he is far away from being the go to guy who can create for others

Hasnt shown patience when the offense is not there, gets into a move irrespective of what the defense is doing and ends up with a bad shot / turnover

Hasnt shown a jumpshot yet but maybe thats minor as he is not expected to play that way anyways (he did try a three though and hit rim, and heard that is shooting some good % in practice on 3s)

Doesnt seem to be passionate unless the game is going on for him and is complaining too much to the refs, he shouldnt be looking at Duncan as a role model for a big man on that side. Comes across a whiner

I could put him in top 10 maybe but not at a place where he should command such media attention. Maybe because he caught everyone by surprise but thats hard to believe as he was a key piece in any trade talks that happened with them. Pretty much all saw the potential last year even, so I am guessing its the media's turn to show love for the lakers and maybe vote him into the MIP this year. I am seeing just so much love from the media for the lakers that I am even thinking if its the same media from last year and the same lakers team here
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#96
#96
Superman said:
I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but I think the point was that he's no Kareem, which is how people are pumping him up after a few good weeks of basketball.

He's showing promise, to be sure, but he still doesn't have a very polished offensive game, doesn't have the go-to post move that every good big man needs, and the majority of his production is coming off of his teammates work, not through any greatness of his.
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thats exactly what i meant... he isnt playing like the next shaq or tim duncan... he's playing like scot pollard, no one cares if he scores as long as its not kobe...
 
RKid

RKid

Bench
#97
#97
Futuristic said:
I'm with you. I'd be happy with taking it a game at a time, and winning tonight vs. the Hornets.
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This whole game at a time mentality the team and most of the fans (reading from laker message boards) are taking is really starting to take dividends. Another blowout and this time against a good team.

A phoenix loss today and we are tied in the loss column with the suns in the division.

Kobe really made me mad with his whining during the summer and his trade demands. But looking at how the season is going, as of right now, it is the best thing that could have happened to the lakers. It put a firecraker under their a$$.
 
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Futuristic

G-League
#98
#98
Not the next Shaq, or Duncan but was pretty good tonight vs. a very solid center in Chandler. Lots of jump hooks, and fade away jumpers from the post. Tonight was the first night I've seen him do that.. hardly any alley-oopps. 17 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks. Not bad and the Lakers beat the Hornets, 109-80.
 
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Freakout

G-League
#100
#100
I have seen Andrew hit hooks and banks with both hands. I have seen him use a up and under. I have seen him hit face up jumpshots. I have seen him drop step and convert. I have no idea where people are getting that he has no offensive moves. That is honestly one of the most comical things I have read.

Now I see that he still doesn't understand at times when and what shot to use but that comes from playing time and experience.

The comparison to Biedrins couldn't be farther from the truth.
 
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vladetomiller

Bench
#101
#101
Freakout said:
I have seen Andrew hit hooks and banks with both hands. I have seen him use a up and under. I have seen him hit face up jumpshots. I have seen him drop step and convert. I have no idea where people are getting that he has no offensive moves. That is honestly one of the most comical things I have read.
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I am not good at playing basketball, but once I went to meet a friend who was a college basketball player during their practice. A ball bounced my way and I was standing behind the baseline then, I picked up the ball and shot it from there, over the backboard and it went in, the guys on that side of the floor asked me to do it again and I refused as I wanted to have a perfect shooting % :)

I dont think anyone is questioning whether he can do those things, face up, drop step, up and under, jump hook etc etc. I and many here have seen him do that as well, but I dont think he has shown it consistently to say that he has a go to move to get a basket when the team absolutely needs a basket. The good ones do that, they will get you a basket that would decide the game if needed.

So it might be comical because you are reading it differently than what it was meant to be, and I am not talking just about me, this thread seems to have that general opinion. ofcourse there are few that are very very negative (comparing to scot pollard is a stretch) and some that are very very positive about him (like you).

Ps - I am also a known laker fan on this board
 
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Futuristic

G-League
#103
#103
Superman said:
I'm exaggerating, of course, but so are they. I'm just saying that Bynum isn't as good as the hype he's been getting lately, specifically after the Suns game a couple weeks ago.



No. I mean that his points are mostly put backs, broken down defenses with him cleaning up, etc. He's not dominating anyone. He never sees a double team. He isn't being keyed in on by the other team's defense. His production comes because he plays with Kobe Bryant and other players who are more of an offensive threat than he is. When Kobe drives the lane and Bynum's man helps, who's left open? When Odom misses a jumper and the other big man doesn't box out, who gets the tip jam?

When I say that his points are coming off his teammates work, I mean that he's not getting the ball in the post and going to work on his man. He's getting clean up points.
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You obviously didn't see him tonight vs. Chandler. Chandler is a very solid center, and a good defensive one. Bynum dominated him from both ends of the court. Regardless, the Lakers are winning and Bynum is a key contributor to that. Shaq or Duncan he's not but if the helps the Lakers win, I'm all for it.
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#104
#104
its funny now that i think about it, before kwame got hurt turiaf was playing like a stud too; because he was so wide open... laker fans better hope that bynum doesnt pull a dampier... because his numbers look really similar to damps in his contract year...
 
RKid

RKid

Bench
#105
#105
AriesMar27 said:
its funny now that i think about it, before kwame got hurt turiaf was playing like a stud too; because he was so wide open... laker fans better hope that bynum doesnt pull a dampier... because his numbers look really similar to damps in his contract year...
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Well Justin Williams disagrees with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCMBKzEHba0

By the end of May your entire front line will disagree with you too.

Lets talk about here and now, and right now Andrew Bynum is the difference between us being another mediocre middle of the pack team with a bleak future, and a young Western Conference Dark Horse which could really shock some teams.

Heres a good article comparing Bynum and Chgandler.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7657106?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=73
 
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Futuristic

G-League
#106
#106
The comparison to Dampier is interesting. Dampier was not the 10th pick, didn't have Kareem as his coach, didn't hire his own trainer and dietitian, wasn't known to be working hard after practice and we never heard about him working hard during the summer. I'd say apples to oranges.
 
Gargamel

Gargamel

Starter
#107
#107
Futuristic said:
The comparison to Dampier is interesting. Dampier was not the 10th pick, didn't have Kareem as his coach, didn't hire his own trainer and dietitian, wasn't known to be working hard after practice and we never heard about him working hard during the summer. I'd say apples to oranges.
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Aires27 has gone from comparing him to Brad Miller, then Biedrins, then Pollard, now Dampier. As Bynum continues to show more things, the comparisons are actually getting worse. :D
 
Gargamel

Gargamel

Starter
#108
#108
RKid said:
Lets talk about here and now, and right now Andrew Bynum is the difference between us being another mediocre middle of the pack team with a bleak future, and a young Western Conference Dark Horse which could really shock some teams.

Heres a good article comparing Bynum and Chandler.
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Chandler was asked something to the effect of, "Did Bynum catch you by surprise tonight?" and Chandler made it clear that his team knows all about Bynum through tape sessions, that he's upwards of 300 lbs and upwards of 7'1", and he made some strong moves that he just couldn't stop. Indicative of that was Bynum taking an offensive board out of Chandler's hands while he held it at full reach above his head (then a putback).
 
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vladetomiller

Bench
#109
#109
Gargamel said:
Aires27 has gone from comparing him to Brad Miller, then Biedrins, then Pollard, now Dampier. As Bynum continues to show more things, the comparisons are actually getting worse. :D
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But do you see anything wrong with that comparison. I know it is being totally negative in comparison to point to someone who is not that good and that is expected of a laker player on a kings board.

For the point at hand, apart from Pollard, comparisons have been valid. Damp played like an all star in the contract year and I was very surprised with his output that year, so not a bad comparison to Damp during his contract year though. I look at more like a compliment, however the wishful thinking might be that bynum would end up like damp which we have to wait and see
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#110
#110
the pollard thing was a joke... biedrins was just comparing his numbers and how he wasnt the only guy getting easy buckets... miller had similar number but was under performing by his standards so i didnt see why bynums numbers were so amazing... the dampier thing hit me when i was on realgm and read an article about how phil said that bynum is working hard because he is up for a contract extension.... which made me think... hmmm... damp is garbage with a huge contract and being out played by diop...

but damp is a perfect comparrison for bynum... no real offensive game and has all the "intangibles" that people seem to love in raw, unskilled bigmen...
 
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Freakout

G-League
#111
#111
AriesMar27 said:
the pollard thing was a joke... biedrins was just comparing his numbers and how he wasnt the only guy getting easy buckets... miller had similar number but was under performing by his standards so i didnt see why bynums numbers were so amazing... the dampier thing hit me when i was on realgm and read an article about how phil said that bynum is working hard because he is up for a contract extension.... which made me think... hmmm... damp is garbage with a huge contract and being out played by diop...

but damp is a perfect comparrison for bynum... no real offensive game and has all the "intangibles" that people seem to love in raw, unskilled bigmen...
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Not really but continue to believe that.
 
kingsfan916

kingsfan916

Starter
#113
#113
RKid said:
Well Justin Williams disagrees with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCMBKzEHba0

By the end of May your entire front line will disagree with you too.

Lets talk about here and now, and right now Andrew Bynum is the difference between us being another mediocre middle of the pack team with a bleak future, and a young Western Conference Dark Horse which could really shock some teams.

Heres a good article comparing Bynum and Chgandler.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7657106?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=73
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the justin williams dunk bynum is taller with hella long arms and last year JUstin was way lighter than bynum that year too so its not much
 
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AriesMar27

Guest
#114
#114
justin williams is a 6'8 scrub who happens to be a scrappy player... what kind of dominant force would bynum be if he couldnt dunk on him.... he has 4 inches and 40lbs on him....
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#115
#115
Futuristic said:
You obviously didn't see him tonight vs. Chandler. Chandler is a very solid center, and a good defensive one. Bynum dominated him from both ends of the court. Regardless, the Lakers are winning and Bynum is a key contributor to that. Shaq or Duncan he's not but if the helps the Lakers win, I'm all for it.
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I agree wholeheartedly. Even as a Kings fan, I really enjoy watching Bynum (mainly 'cause he's so young) and can see he will be part of a Lakers resurgence. Sigh!

Is Jackson still saying Kwame will start? That has GOT to be a needle to get Bynum to work on a low post game or something.
 
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Futuristic

G-League
#117
#117
Glenn said:
I agree wholeheartedly. Even as a Kings fan, I really enjoy watching Bynum (mainly 'cause he's so young) and can see he will be part of a Lakers resurgence. Sigh!

Is Jackson still saying Kwame will start? That has GOT to be a needle to get Bynum to work on a low post game or something.
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25 points 17 rebounds, 3 blocked shots vs. the Bucks. It's only the Bucks but that line is still very impressive. And he is showing post moves. I'm with you - he is fun to watch. Were you a Laker fan at one point?
 
Gargamel

Gargamel

Starter
#119
#119
AriesMar27 said:
the dampier thing hit me when i was on realgm and read an article about how phil said that bynum is working hard because he is up for a contract extension.... which made me think... hmmm... damp is garbage with a huge contract and being out played by diop...

but damp is a perfect comparrison for bynum... no real offensive game and has all the "intangibles" that people seem to love in raw, unskilled bigmen...
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You're believing Phil. Problem 1. He's a jokester.

As for the no real offensive game quote, I'm either seeing things to the contrary or I'm crazier than I thought I was.
 
RKid

RKid

Bench
#120
#120
Futuristic said:
25 points 17 rebounds, 3 blocked shots vs. the Bucks. It's only the Bucks but that line is still very impressive. And he is showing post moves. I'm with you - he is fun to watch. Were you a Laker fan at one point?
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Well yes its only the bucks, but he went up against the top pick of his draft class. Andrew Bogut.

Im not trying to convince anyone that this kid is the second coming or anything, I just dont agree with the comparisons that are being made.

#1 pick Bogut
14 pts 11 rbs

#10 pick Bynum
25 pts 17 rbs
 
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