Kyle Lowry Discussion

[KingsCitizen]

The problem with Thornton right now is the same thing why a lot people value MKG over Barnes. A simple case of a well-rounded player vs all-offense player.

One to blame for this is basically Smart's system of playing basketball, which until this time I couldn't figure out yet. If only Smart played Tyreke as full-time PG of this team next to Thornton and left people at awe with that combo, we'll instead should be talking about trading IT/Jimmer for a 6th man right now.

So that's it. After the sample Smart throw on the floor for 66 games, most of the folks here are believers that Evans would be our better SG. And in this dilemma, Thornton should either come off the bench or be trade if he can't stomach it.

Anyway, I think Lowry is a good player. But IMO, the better PG next to Reke(if he'll be our SG) is a guy like Derek Fisher. Not a Laker fan, but what Fisher does most of his career is to bring the ball up, call for a play, give the ball to Kobe, and wait in the corner for a three. Replace Kobe with Reke in that equation, and that's the sort of PG Reke needs. Actually Jimmer is already at 60% of that level. Jimmer just needs to settle and be a confident PG. I think the PG spot is there for him to take. I hope he realize that before we get tired of waiting for him to reach his potential.

 

[hrdboild]

I was writing a post earlier and accidentally deleted it so I gave up, but basically what I was trying to say is that Thornton isn't a great fit on this team because Tyreke and Cousins are our building blocks and all three of those guys need the ball in their hands to score-- but he probably has a lot of value around the league because he's signed to a reasonable contract for 3 more years and there just aren't a lot of SGs in the league right now who can get you 18-20ppg. There's Kobe, Wade, Ellis, Johnson, Gordon, Thornton, and Martin. That's it. I don't dislike Thornton, but he and Thomas are really the only players we can offer in a trade right now that might actually warrant a return phone call so his name is going to come up in a lot of trade proposals this summer. And Lowry, in contrast, is a really good fit for us. He would improve our defense, improve our offensive efficiency, and improve our three point shooting. He's been a better three point shooter than Thornton the past two years.

A lot of people are looking at Houston's roster and saying they don't need a SG but Courtney Lee is a restricted free agent and Martin will be unrestricted in a year. They're still transitioning out of the roster built around Yao Ming and into whatever the future will be so a lot of things are in flux for them. They only have five players signed right now: Lowry, Martin, Scola, Morris, and Parsons. That makes it hard to formulate a trade with them but fortunately we're both under the cap so salaries don't have to match. Lowry is a very good player, but he only has two years left on his deal. That means he ought to get a good player in return, but not a great one...

Remember all we got for Kevin Martin was a year of Carl Landry, and that was when Martin was at his peak and signed to a long-term deal already. Trade value is not always equivalent to talent, there are a lot of other factors involved. Just like anywhere else, a trade asset is only worth as much as someone is willing to offer. If Houston does consider moving Martin (and I think they should -- he hasn't gotten better in 3 years, he's still a liability on defense, and now his efficiency has started to slip with the changes to the shooting foul rules) then Thornton is a pretty good pickup for them. And they probably already have their starting PG lined up if they re-sign Dragic. If need be, Thomas or Whiteside could sweeten the deal. Or worst-case we could consider swapping picks. Guys like Terrence Jones, Arnett Moultrie, Moe Harkless, or Quincy Miller might still be available at Houston's pick.

 

[Bricklayer]

Lowry would do well enough off the ball and defensively he's pretty dang good. What I worry about with a guy like Lowry (which might seem pretty petty) is that He's not a real ball dominant PG. Almost too passive form what I have seen, and being that Martin was my favorite King for a while I still watch him in Houston. If Evans was at SG and Lowry were to bring a passive approach to SG then what would be the difference than Lowry basically being "Beno" to Evans PG? When they played Dragic and Lowry together it kind of looked like Dragic was controlling things. I don't want another 6'0 SG.

I would absolutely KILL to have Lowry come in and play Beno to Reke's Reke. That was the way through for this franchise before we started ****ing things up. Except this Beno has actually become a better and more prolific three point shooter and can really defend. If that's the way Lowry wants to play it, then sign me the bleep up.

What you can NOT have next to Reke is a PG who thinks the show is about him. But I want the very best all around fill in all the corners guy I can get there.

 

[Bricklayer]

I agree 100%. Thornton is very underrated around here in my opinion. The general solution to our roster issues seems to be 'trade Thornton' or 'move Thornton to the bench' ... neither options I love.

Thornton for Lowry? I don't think I make that deal...but I suppose it largely depends on what else we do. I'm not sure Houston would either, because Dragic is a FA and they have Kevin .. but we have players who can do some of the things Lowry can do. We have guys that need the ball already. Evans/Thomas/Lowry would be a bigger mess than the one we have right now.

And I like Lowry, I just think this league is pretty stacked with good point guards. Almost every team has one, or one they think can become a good one. Thornton is just a rarer player... with the unique ability to shoot and attack the basket. He and DeMarcus are the biggest 'winners' on the roster right now, or at least they are the most expressive about it. I know he wants to win. You can see it.

3pt shots a game + percentage
11-12 Lowry: 4.5FGA .374
10-11 Lowry: 4.6FGA .376

11-12 Thorn: 6.1FGA .345
10-11 Thorn: 5.4FGA .361 (Sacto numbers after trade)


See? That's the interesting trait Lowry has added. You make this trade you might actually be getting BETTER from the 3pt stripe. Not in overall scoring obviously. But we don't NEED scoring. We don't need guys chewing shots. Now I have advocated for a nice 1/2/3 weapons Cuz/Reke/Thornton hierarchy in the past...but in order for that to work you have to throw Geoff Petrie off the cruise boat, can the coach, and strip the team down to where it should be, OKC style -- three big weapons and a bunch of defensive roleplayers. Not all these lesser offensive weapons nonsense chewing shots and confusing things. But if you are going to have all that crap on your roster, then the next thing you don't need is that #3 weapon. You can't afford all those munched shots when you've got all these undersized gunners running around looking for their own, many of them not being worth a damn if they are not getting them. Then you start to look at Thornton's 17.5FGA last year, and 15.7FGA this year, compare them to Lowry's 10.9FGA this year and 10.8FGA last year and realize you can gain back 5-7FGs a game in such a move, and redistributing them around could relieve a lot of the intolerable pressure there was last year. And you do it while gaining a superior ballhandler/passer/defender.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

3pt shots a game + percentage
11-12 Lowry: 4.5FGA .374
10-11 Lowry: 4.6FGA .376

11-12 Thorn: 6.1FGA .345
10-11 Thorn: 5.4FGA .361 (Sacto numbers after trade)


See? That's the interesting trait Lowry has added. You make this trade you might actually be getting BETTER from the 3pt stripe. Not in overall scoring obviously. But we don't NEED scoring. We don't need guys chewing shots. Now I have advocated for a nice 1/2/3 weapons Cuz/Reke/Thornton hierarchy in the past...but in order for that to work you have to throw Geoff Petrie off the cruise boat, can the coach, and strip the team down to where it should be, OKC style -- three big weapons and a bunch of defensive roleplayers. Not all these lesser offensive weapons nonsense chewing shots and confusing things. But if you are going to have all that crap on your roster, then the next thing you don't need is that #3 weapon. You can't afford all those munched shots when you've got all these undersized gunners running around looking for their own, many of them not being worth a damn if they are not getting them. Then you start to look at Thornton's 17.5FGA last year, and 15.7FGA this year, compare them to Lowry's 10.9FGA this year and 10.8FGA last year and realize you can gain back 5-7FGs a game in such a move, and redistributing them around could relieve a lot of the intolerable pressure there was last year. And you do it while gaining a superior ballhandler/passer/defender.

The most impressive thing about Lowry to me is that he went from a .272 to .376 from the 3pt line in one year. It gives you some hope that Evans will figure out his shooting thing to a certain extent.

The league is trending towards a 2-PG or a PG/Combo Guard duo at the starting guard spots, so pairing Lowry with Evans is interesting. I struggle with dealing Thornton because in some world the Evans-Thornton-Cousins trio works. I know it can. An Evans - Lowry - Cousins trio adds a few more variables. I don't know if Lowry wants to play the combo guard to Evans point, or the other way around. He obviously doesn't want to start next to Dragic.

I'm not even sure Evans can really make the most of his talents playing the 2. Some people feel like it's a no brainer ... but the best Tryeke Evans I ever saw had him playing the lead guard role, and if that is the plan, I don't know if Lowry wants to sign up for that.

If it were up to me I'd give Evans another shot at the point, Thornton at the two, and Isaiah as the Lou Williams type off the bench. I think he's the more natural 6th man type anyways. Contrary to popular belief, Thornton can actually score without dominating the ball. He's a good cutter, a good deep threat off of a drive, and he's always running the floor for transition baskets. In a half court setting, you rarely see him force the way Evans and Cousins do. (Things I don't mind those guys doing, by the way) .. he doesn't do the Evans dribble dribble dribble shoot thing, or when Cousins forces a drive. When he takes a bad shot he takes a bad shot right away... which is an odd way to say that I don't think he stalls the offense all that much. Does he take bad shots? yes, but they are mostly in transition where he doesn't pass or right when he gets the ball on offense for a contested jumper. His shots don't waste the clock is the best way I can put it.

I wouldn't throw a fit if a deal centered around Thornton and Lowry went down, I'm just not totally on board. Like I said before ... If you give me Evans-Thornton-Defender/shooter-Cousins-Defender with Thomas, Jimmer, JT, Hayes, Terrence Williams, John Salmons, and Francisco Garcia as options off the bench .. a coach that cannot put a 8th seed playoff run with that roster shouldn't be coaching.

 

[pshn80]

you would need to balance out the roster with good shooter at 3 if reke/lowry are the backcourt.

Isn't that what we need anyway? One of our best outside shooters is Thornton who is too short to play with Lowry, IT, and maybe even Evans. With Evans the poor match up may not be because of Thornton's height.

 

[Sac.Kings]

The key difficulty here is that assuming same coach and front office you have to assume we WILL play IT a lot of minutes next year. We all know that after all the minutes and hype invested in him. So once you have that as your backdrop, as your constant, you have to take that into account and try to figure how to work around it. Would love to have Lowry. But no matter how you come down on trade Reke (foolish) trade Thornton whatever, just the mere pairing of Lowry and IT creates some real issues. Neither guy is going to get 16min a night from this franchise. So...you either have to create a messy platoon with neither guy happy, or you have to not put them together in the first place, or you have to actually play them together as quite possibly the smallest major minute backcourt pairing in modern NBA history. That's not hyperbole.

Can Lowry log some minutes and try to do the Bobby Jackson at SG? Maybe. He's a strong tough dude. But its a lot like moving Reke to SF. You are taking him from his strength, where he's proven he's hihgly effective defensively, and you are setting him up to fail.

I could make all this work if I were like a computer game GM/coach/god emperor. There is a way through here. But the reality is you are have to rely on severely flawed decisionmakers and various interfereing agendas.

Sometimes, the benefits just simply outweigh the risks. Lowry would allow the starting five to make sense. He is a very good PG and trading Thornton for him (the most preferable scenario) would finally put Tyreke at SG (where he should be, not at SF), and we can worry about SF and PF the rest of the offseason. Those few minutes that IT and Lowry would be on the court together would not change much, and can be controlled by the coach if it really becomes a detriment. IT just finished his rookie season, it is not like he is Kobe and can demand whatever he wants. You don't have to play IT a lot of minutes, as you state. It seems rather ridiculous that a team would not allow improvement so they can play a guy who was 7th in the rookie rankings significant minutes. If there is something that will make the team better rather than the disappointment we continue to watch, then I am all for it. Lowry would make sense, and he brings what we sorely need, defense at the PG position. If worse comes to worse, trade IT. There are ways around the problems you state!

 

[sidney]

Best combination I think would be starting Lowry + Tyreke with Thornton off the bench. That's a pretty impressive combination.

That would mean IT goes. Houston has said they want to move up in the draft. If we are unlucky in the lottery:
IT + Hayes + Garcia + Pick 5-7 for Lowry + Dalembert + Pick 14 or 16

If we're not in love with anyone in that 5-7 range that makes a lot of sense on both sites. Would just need to get a clear starter at SF to keep Smart from starting Tyreke at SF and going small.

Lowry/Tyreke
Tyreke/ Thornton
Player X/T-Williams
Cousins/JT
Dalembert/JT

That looks like a team that could actually make it to the playoffs

 

[Bricklayer]

Lowry/Tyreke
Tyreke/ Thornton
Player X/T-Williams
Cousins/JT
Dalembert/JT

That looks like a team that could actually make it to the playoffs

Are you, sir, actually suggesting we put together an 8 man rotation full of long atheltic players who excel at defense?? LUDICROUS!!

I think you need to find another team to root for -- such heresy will not be tolerated around here.

P.S. Looks good to me.

 

[baller13]

Lowry is the perfect fit on this team. Whoever compared him to Beno is insane. Beno is a terrible defender and Lowry is one of the best defensive point guards in the league. And at the end of the day it really doesnt matter if Tyreke plays Pg or not because he is going to have the ball anyways. He may not bring the ball up the floor but he is going to get it in the halfcourt, and if we are on a fast break just find him or lowry and you have 2 guys that can start the break. And teams are not going to put their PG on tyreke anymore. They are going to put thier pg on lowry or thornton or whoever else we have. I think the days of teams letting tyreke post up their pg's are over.

 

[kpm308]

I don't entirely trust Lowry to be the same player here that he was the last two years in Houston. Granted he is young and has been developing, but until recently he's had a lot of ups and downs throughout the seasons as his situation and roles change. I also as a general rule don't trust players who played their best ball under Adelman, he is just so much better at putting a player in a position to succeed than most coaches, especially our coach. With our history of having guys like Landry, Hickson Hayes, and Salmons come in and play significantly worse than they did with their previous teams, I'm just not quite sure if Lowry is good enough to actually come in and make a difference rather than getting sucked in as another casualty of our organization.

 

[mac]

3pt shots a game + percentage
11-12 Lowry: 4.5FGA .374
10-11 Lowry: 4.6FGA .376

11-12 Thorn: 6.1FGA .345
10-11 Thorn: 5.4FGA .361 (Sacto numbers after trade)


See? That's the interesting trait Lowry has added. You make this trade you might actually be getting BETTER from the 3pt stripe. Not in overall scoring obviously. But we don't NEED scoring. We don't need guys chewing shots. Now I have advocated for a nice 1/2/3 weapons Cuz/Reke/Thornton hierarchy in the past...but in order for that to work you have to throw Geoff Petrie off the cruise boat, can the coach, and strip the team down to where it should be, OKC style -- three big weapons and a bunch of defensive roleplayers. Not all these lesser offensive weapons nonsense chewing shots and confusing things. But if you are going to have all that crap on your roster, then the next thing you don't need is that #3 weapon. You can't afford all those munched shots when you've got all these undersized gunners running around looking for their own, many of them not being worth a damn if they are not getting them. Then you start to look at Thornton's 17.5FGA last year, and 15.7FGA this year, compare them to Lowry's 10.9FGA this year and 10.8FGA last year and realize you can gain back 5-7FGs a game in such a move, and redistributing them around could relieve a lot of the intolerable pressure there was last year. And you do it while gaining a superior ballhandler/passer/defender.

I would add that Petrie's screw-ups aside, Thornton cannot be that #3 guy for us as part of a unit playing with Tyreke and DMC because he's not contributing in aspects other than scoring. When he first came to SAC he was rebounding, setting guys up and scoring, and we all thought that he'd be great next to Tyreke and DMC because he wouldn't have to work as hard to score, and could still rebound and set guys up. Instead, we got a Thornton that decided to neglect the other aspects of his game in order to focus on scoring, gambling on steals to run out on the break etc. In other words, we got a new version of Kevin Martin, which we already know cannot work with Tyreke. If Thornton's priority is to score then he has to be coming off the bench - he cannot play on the same unit as Tyreke and DMC, or he'll just be taking the ball from them.

 

[baller13]

I would add that Petrie's screw-ups aside, Thornton cannot be that #3 guy for us as part of a unit playing with Tyreke and DMC because he's not contributing in aspects other than scoring. When he first came to SAC he was rebounding, setting guys up and scoring, and we all thought that he'd be great next to Tyreke and DMC because he wouldn't have to work as hard to score, and could still rebound and set guys up. Instead, we got a Thornton that decided to neglect the other aspects of his game in order to focus on scoring, gambling on steals to run out on the break etc. In other words, we got a new version of Kevin Martin, which we already know cannot work with Tyreke. If Thornton's priority is to score then he has to be coming off the bench - he cannot play on the same unit as Tyreke and DMC, or he'll just be taking the ball from them.

I agree completley

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't entirely trust Lowry to be the same player here that he was the last two years in Houston. Granted he is young and has been developing, but until recently he's had a lot of ups and downs throughout the seasons as his situation and roles change. I also as a general rule don't trust players who played their best ball under Adelman, he is just so much better at putting a player in a position to succeed than most coaches, especially our coach. With our history of having guys like Landry, Hickson Hayes, and Salmons come in and play significantly worse than they did with their previous teams, I'm just not quite sure if Lowry is good enough to actually come in and make a difference rather than getting sucked in as another casualty of our organization.

Thing is Lowry's numbers barely budged from Adelman to McHale, and he was already a heck of an interesting player before that. The added outside sdhot is really the thing that let him go from sub to starter though.

 

[Glenn]

I don't entirely trust Lowry to be the same player here that he was the last two years in Houston. Granted he is young and has been developing, but until recently he's had a lot of ups and downs throughout the seasons as his situation and roles change. I also as a general rule don't trust players who played their best ball under Adelman, he is just so much better at putting a player in a position to succeed than most coaches, especially our coach. With our history of having guys like Landry, Hickson Hayes, and Salmons come in and play significantly worse than they did with their previous teams, I'm just not quite sure if Lowry is good enough to actually come in and make a difference rather than getting sucked in as another casualty of our organization.

Although I think this is a good note, I think we all know it but just because we don't have Adleman is no excuse for not getting the best player. I'm sure you agree. The days of Keigie Natmusphal may end some day and a new experienced coach will walk in and say, wow, let's get this team going. And it will go.

 

[Rookie]

IT will prove next season to all the doubter why he should be one of the top rookie as well as proving to the people in here why Lowry discussion is irrelevant. The guy got heart and dedication to be better and I can see him getting better.

I personally wouldn't do a Lowry and Thornton trade. We would get two similar players in IT/Lowry at PG, which isn't bad but to lose a solid SG is. Evans is still an unproven star. The only thing he got going for him is his ability to take it to the rim but until he can proved himself at the SG, I wouldn't trade Thornton. I think Evans needs to prove himself before I dumped any solid player to build a team around his game.

The only thing that this team need the most is a solid starting SF/PF. Unless you can get one of those for Thornton or IT, I wouldn't move them.

 

[ParniValjak]

I can't believe people are not interested in Lowry because of IT! Huh?!

I don't think we will get Lowry but if we do, you burn IT and you don't give it a second thought. IT is a nice player and good player to have but Lowry is a big time upgrade at that position and I would not blink if given a choice between the two.

Lowry and Evans would be a perfect fit together and would form one of the best defensive backcourts in the NBA. If we do get Lowry though, I agree with Bricklayer that our coach and front office would be stupid enough to play IT and Lowry for extended minutes together. In this case I would be looking to trade IT for a piece that is a better fit.

I still can't get over how good a backcourt Lowry-Evans would make. That is as good as you could wish for. Offensively they mesh brilliantly and defensively they can be beastly!

 

[RichieInRocklin]

Carolija, I agree with you 100%. Evans is a shooting guard and just a year or two from being an All-Star. If you've been watching the playoffs, the unstoppables have been the ones that can penetrate at will (i.e., Wade, James, Parker, Westbrook, Harden,Bryant, etal.). Evans is as good as any of them in penetrating, and just needs time and good coaching to develop pull ups and an outside shot. With Lowry, we would have a DEFENSIVE presence in the back court that would really help our overall defense. Evans is a combo guard, like Wade, and nobody minds, in Miami, whether he controls the ball 30% or 80% of the time because he's that good. Evans will be able to "approach" Wade's talents in a few years. Let's get him some help in the form of Lowry and a really good luck draft (read Davis), and fill in with a good SF and we'll be tough in several years.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Carolija, I agree with you 100%. Evans is a shooting guard and just a year or two from being an All-Star. If you've been watching the playoffs, the unstoppables have been the ones that can penetrate at will (i.e., Wade, James, Parker, Westbrook, Harden,Bryant, etal.). Evans is as good as any of them in penetrating, and just needs time and good coaching to develop pull ups and an outside shot. With Lowry, we would have a DEFENSIVE presence in the back court that would really help our overall defense. Evans is a combo guard, like Wade, and nobody minds, in Miami, whether he controls the ball 30% or 80% of the time because he's that good. Evans will be able to "approach" Wade's talents in a few years. Let's get him some help in the form of Lowry and a really good luck draft (read Davis), and fill in with a good SF and we'll be tough in several years.

Yep. Philly n Indiana did not have the elite penetrator that commands double teams. Hibbert is a nice player but he isn't automatic buckets down low. Sac would be much better off w Lowry than it or Thornton. Shooters at the 1 or 2 position r easier to find and acquire.

 

[ESP47]

Lowry is a rare talent. All too often, fans fall in love with the "good" players on their bad team. IT is a solid player but he wouldn't look as good as he did if he was on a better team. Lowry is a triple double threat any time he's on the court. Other than Cousins and Tyreke, everyone on this team should be expendable. It's funny how a team can win 25% of their games, yet the fans want to keep most of the players.

 

[Rookie]

Beside Cuz...everyone on the team is expandable IMO. The thing I find funny is that people already view Evans as a star and even comparing him to the elite players in the NBA. I'm not saying he can't be in the future but he hadn't proven it yet. Until then he is not worthy of building a team around. I said build the team around Cuz. From what I've seen, IT worked well with Cuz.

I find it funny as well that because we only win 25% that we change out half of our roster and expect the team to developed any kind of chemistry. I prefer to keep role players as well as good players that I believe can put the puzzle together. Not just mixing the pot with a bunch of "rare" talents and dumping everyone because of a bad shorten season. Lowry for IT, I may accept because the talent at PG will be improved..however can he be the glue to the team. From what I've read, it seems he thinks he can be a person that team should build around. Makes you wonder about his ego. But I think IT can be that glue to the team...plus he got that smile.

 

[upinsmoke]

I would like to Keep both IT and MT and have our pick and Hayes be the biggest part of our package to HOU and recieve their 14TH pick and Lowry in return.

 

[Glenn]

I would like to Keep both IT and MT and have our pick and Hayes be the biggest part of our package to HOU and recieve their 14TH pick and Lowry in return.

Any trade involving our pick should at least wait until after tomorrow. If we get #1, I wouldn't trade Davis for nothin' right now. I am not saying he is going to be the best PF in the history of the game but the combo of Cousins and Davis just might go down intory with the best duo in history. Davis is a great defensive player but he also has a comfortable shot out to the three point line because he used to be a guard (or maybe because he's just damn good). This guy is a mass of upside who already would be one of the best shot blockers in the game. I don't think I'd trade the top 3 but there is a matter of height I'd like to know about Robinson. I suspect he is 6' 9 1/2" in shoes which is big enough for a muscular hustle guy but a confirmation of that would seal the deal. Not even sure I'd quibble over an inch but I'd hate to make the choice with those stats.

Lowry may be the next coming of the greatest candy in the world but 6' is 6' and 6'9" is 6'9" and there are far more 6 footers around than the tall guys. It is said that the league is a point guard league. That doesn't mean we don't pick big and smash the ball down people's throats offensively and defensively.

 

[ESP47]

Beside Cuz...everyone on the team is expandable IMO. The thing I find funny is that people already view Evans as a star and even comparing him to the elite players in the NBA. I'm not saying he can't be in the future but he hadn't proven it yet. Until then he is not worthy of building a team around. I said build the team around Cuz. From what I've seen, IT worked well with Cuz.

I find it funny as well that because we only win 25% that we change out half of our roster and expect the team to developed any kind of chemistry. I prefer to keep role players as well as good players that I believe can put the puzzle together. Not just mixing the pot with a bunch of "rare" talents and dumping everyone because of a bad shorten season. Lowry for IT, I may accept because the talent at PG will be improved..however can he be the glue to the team. From what I've read, it seems he thinks he can be a person that team should build around. Makes you wonder about his ego. But I think IT can be that glue to the team...plus he got that smile.

You really think this roster needs chemistry? This team needs to be rebuilt. Garcia, Greene, Salmons, Outlaw, Honeycutt and the rest of the guys on our team who can't shoot, pass or play defense need to go. Keep Demarcus, Tyreke, IT, Thorton as a 6th man and JT as the backup PF and rebuild the team from there. Half this team is made up of players who are over the hill and players that were never even good enough to reach the hill. No amount of chemistry is going to turn a team of scrubs into a playoff team.

Houston would laugh at Lowry for IT. Thomas was a nice surprise for us but he is not even on the same level as Lowry.

 

[hrdboild]

You really think this roster needs chemistry? This team needs to be rebuilt. Garcia, Greene, Salmons, Outlaw, Honeycutt and the rest of the guys on our team who can't shoot, pass or play defense need to go.

You just listed all 5 (!) of our small forwards. And by the end of the year none of them were in the regular rotation. Whether it's the draft, free agency, or a trade we need this gallery of misfit forwards to stop now.

 

[kpm308]

Thing is Lowry's numbers barely budged from Adelman to McHale, and he was already a heck of an interesting player before that. The added outside sdhot is really the thing that let him go from sub to starter though.

I like Lowry, so I don't want to sound like I'm trying to make him out to be terrible or anything, but the pessimist in me would attribute a lot of this past season to carryover from the Adelman system. Especially this year, with the short training camp and offseason, McHale stuck with a lot of the same general offense that the team was used to playing, and then slowly started to institute his own as the season went on, to the point where when Lowry returned from injury in Apri, the system had moved away from him, and his minutes and his production went down substantially. I have a feeling that Lowry realizes the same point that I'm trying to make, he isn't the type of player to just fit into any system and produce, he has a certain way he can be productive, and he knows that it won't happen with the way McHale wants him to play, and that's why he's looking to get out right now.

I agree the 3 point shooting is the big question mark. If he is actually that much better from long range than he was two years ago that is huge. However, being the pessimist that I am, I remember John Salmons shooting .417 for us and Chicago in 09, then following it up with two years around .380 in Milwaukee. This year, playing with this team, .295 from 3. The difference being that he can be a good shooter when he gets to pick his spots to take those 3s, not being forced into taking it every time he gets a kickout and is open.

So what it all comes down to me is what we woul have to give up to take the risk. If he can come here and play as well as he has played I'm all for it, and if you could get him for Thornton I'm all for it, but there are guys in this league that are dependent on the situation and some that aren't. If you bring in Jamal Crawford you know what you're going to get no matter the system, his game doesn't change, Joakim Noah is the same, Gerald Wallace has made a huge difference wherever he has gone since he left us. On the other hand Raymond Felton looked like an all star last year because of the system and this year he looked like he shouldn't have been in the league, same with Boris Diaw who was cut by the Bobcats and now looks like an integral piece to the championship favorites. Some players just rely on the situation more than others, and I'm afraid that Lowry is one of those.

 

[kpm308]

Lowry is a rare talent. All too often, fans fall in love with the "good" players on their bad team. IT is a solid player but he wouldn't look as good as he did if he was on a better team. Lowry is a triple double threat any time he's on the court. Other than Cousins and Tyreke, everyone on this team should be expendable. It's funny how a team can win 25% of their games, yet the fans want to keep most of the players.

Just as often fans fall in love with a player that has had one or two good years on a better team than theirs and expect him to keep it up. Considering he's been in the league for 7 years and has 2 triple doubles to his name, he may be a threat but not much of one.

 

[baller13]

IT will prove next season to all the doubter why he should be one of the top rookie as well as proving to the people in here why Lowry discussion is irrelevant. The guy got heart and dedication to be better and I can see him getting better.

I personally wouldn't do a Lowry and Thornton trade. We would get two similar players in IT/Lowry at PG, which isn't bad but to lose a solid SG is. Evans is still an unproven star. The only thing he got going for him is his ability to take it to the rim but until he can proved himself at the SG, I wouldn't trade Thornton. I think Evans needs to prove himself before I dumped any solid player to build a team around his game.

The only thing that this team need the most is a solid starting SF/PF. Unless you can get one of those for Thornton or IT, I wouldn't move them.

IT may have heart and dedication but unfortunatley that isnt going to make that little guy grow. I know he is tough but he is still giving up a lot of size almost every night.

 

[swisshh]

Having two good PGs is not a bad thing.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

Won't reiterate what's already been said about him, but I love Lowry. Just a very good, do-it-all kind of PG.

Would IT, Hayes & Honeycutt get something done with Houston?