Kings vs Warriors - Summer League Game 2

[HereWeBoogie]

so that can take pressure off of him.

exactly. right now he is the primary focus of the Defense. wont be the case when he is on the floor in the NBA.

Grieves will find him open. and we saw how many times DMC passed the ball out to WIDE OPEN 3pt shooters last year

 

[Entity]

so funny how people want to throw the guy to the sharks after 2 summer league games on a dysfunctional thrown together team full of no talent.

Sick of ppl saying that. He is top 10 pick. He is supposed to be the talent. Thompson Evans cousins all had no talent with them they showed what they had. And so has Ben.

 

[swisshh]

Ray had better stats this game, but I feel he was hurting the team at times. His defense has been good in both games, but he wasn't finding guys open on the break and his passes were late most of the night. Had a lot of skip passes he missed, and was forcing stuff at times.

I would like to see Ben on some curls for mid-range jumpers. One thing that should work with the full team is Ben feeding Cousins on the low post. He's a willing passer and teams have to respect his cut and shot. It also lessens the need for him to dribble drive.

 

[Bricklayer]

so funny how people want to throw the guy to the sharks after 2 summer league games on a dysfunctional thrown together team full of no talent.

I think it speaks to his lack of overall skill that that is a problem.

You compare it to a guy like McCallum, and he thrives.

Which again, skillsetwise strongly suggests we drafted a roleplayer. Can't do much himself. Needs a system and teammates to make him better. Could still be a good roleplayer if the shooting comes around, but that's all yet to be seen.

 

[Hallama]

Sick of ppl saying that. He is top 10 pick. He is supposed to be the talent. Thompson Evans cousins all had no talent with them they showed what they had. And so has Ben.

I recall a couple 1-12's from Cuz in the SL.

 

[Entity]

Ray had better stats this game, but I feel he was hurting the team at times. His defense has been good in both games, but he wasn't finding guys open on the break and his passes were late most of the night. Had a lot of skip passes he missed, and was forcing stuff at times.

I would like to see Ben on some curls for mid-range jumpers. One thing that should work with the full team is Ben feeding Cousins on the low post. He's a willing passer and teams have to respect his cut and shot. It also lessens the need for him to dribble drive.

Ray doesn't nave contract. hard to pass when your #1 option is shooting like 7%. At that point if your are Ray you have to show you got some skills and try to earn a contract. I don't blame him. would you keep feeding Ben??

 

[Bricklayer]

I recall a couple 1-12's from Cuz in the SL.

Huge huge difference. HUGE.

Its all skillset in these things, and I knew Cousins was magic from the first SL game. So did many others, that's why he won rookie of the month for his summer league performance. The lousy shooting in the final couple of games was purely because he was exhausted and pissed at Mario Elie for throwing him out there exhausted, but the things he could do were just remarkable.

 

[annihilator_33]

I recall a couple 1-12's from Cuz in the SL.

Game Log
Date Opponent Result MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Jul 18 vs. DAL L 54 - 85 27 1 - 12 0 - 0 4 - 7 0 6 6 0 1 1 5 2 6
Jul 17 @ CHI W 76 - 75 31 3 - 15 0 - 0 4 - 4 2 5 7 0 1 2 3 5 10
Jul 16 vs. TOR L 82 - 88 28 5 - 18 0 - 1 6 - 7 4 8 12 2 1 1 6 10 16
Jul 14 @ MIN W 79 - 78 35 9 - 17 0 - 0 4 - 7 2 10 12 5 4 1 5 2 22
Jul 13 @ LAL W 90 - 84 31 8 - 20 0 - 0 3 - 3 6 6 12 3 2 2 5 6 19
Jul 12 @ DET W 97 - 68 26 5 - 11 0 - 0 4 - 6 3 7 10 1 0 0 5 4 14

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Sick of ppl saying that. He is top 10 pick. He is supposed to be the talent. Thompson Evans cousins all had no talent with them they showed what they had. And so has Ben.

ok then. i guess NBA careers can be determined by 2 Summer League games. Kevin Durants career was over after his 4-19 performance followed by a 5-17 performance. and i guess we should have just put Von Wafer right into the NBA All-Star game after he scored 42pts in summer league?

 

[Entity]

I recall a couple 1-12's from Cuz in the SL.

I recall 4 double double's in 6 games.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

The lousy shooting in the final couple of games was purely because he was exhausted and pissed at Mario Elie for throwing him out there exhausted, but the things he could do were just remarkable.

it was actually his first 2 games where his FG% was atrocious, just like Ben.

 

[Entity]

ok then. i guess NBA careers can be determined by 2 Summer League games. Kevin Durants career was over after his 4-19 performance followed by a 5-17 performance. and i guess we should have just put Von Wafer right into the NBA All-Star game after he scored 42pts in summer league?

so youre not concerned at all? I mean you act like this is no problem. I see a problem. I see a guy that on an off shooting night can't contribute in any other way. he can't dribble and his defense is sub par. He may be ok but never a #2 option with that skillset. he could be like 4th I think we just proved that we need an all star SF. not a role playing SF. we need a #2 option. at this moment in time. Our #2 option is marcus thornton smh.

 

[annihilator_33]

it was actually his first 2 games where his FG% was atrocious, just like Ben.

It was the final 3 games where he shot poorly, like Brick said, he was completely gassed

 

[Entity]

#1 mistake in kings history trading Chris Webber for crap. #2 mistake trading Evans at all. yeah i said Evans I don't give a crap who don't like it.

 

[dmj]

The thing about McLemore is this: we knew he would struggle creating his own shot at first. That is the scouting report on him and no one would should be surprised by that part of his game right now. The plus side of this is that he is still young and very athletic, which is the reason you don't give up on that part of his game just yet.

The thing that you really can't judge is his shooting. Lots of players have poor shooting performances in actual NBA games, and there are plenty of examples of great players who shot poorly in the summer league (Durant, Curry). Two games is just way too small of a sample size to even start to worry about his shot.

 

[Bricklayer]

it was actually his first 2 games where his FG% was atrocious, just like Ben.

No it wasn't. I watched every game. He got tired, and psisy and threw up junk the last couple. His start was brilliant.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

so youre not concerned at all?

not really. but im going to wait till he plays all of his summer league games before i get concerned. and even if he plays like this the whole time, im not going to completely write him off yet like some of you seem to be doing already

 

[HereWeBoogie]

No it wasn't. I watched every game. He got tired, and psisy and threw up junk the last couple. His start was brilliant.

yep! my mistake, i read the stat list backwards LOL!

 

[Kingsfan23]

it was actually his first 2 games where his FG% was atrocious, just like Ben.

Bringing up a case like Durant's 4-19 is the outlier. I would guess 97% (?) of those who have shot like that in their first two games in the summer league have never been solid rotational nba players

 

[cuad]

Ray McCall is a good player.

 

[mac]

The thing about McLemore is this: we knew he would struggle creating his own shot at first. That is the scouting report on him and no one would should be surprised by that part of his game right now. The plus side of this is that he is still young and very athletic, which is the reason you don't give up on that part of his game just yet.

The thing that you really can't judge is his shooting. Lots of players have poor shooting performances in actual NBA games, and there are plenty of examples of great players who shot poorly in the summer league (Durant, Curry). Two games is just way too small of a sample size to even start to worry about his shot.

I suppose the difference between McLemore and Durant/Curry then becomes that he doesn't offer anything other than shooting at this point of his career. FG% aside, both Durant and Curry are far more capable creators off the dribble and that means they can get to the rim when their shot isn't falling or set guys up off of penetration. Therein lies the problem.

Also, just looking at the general concensus here it seems that many feel McLemore will suddenly become open in the regular season just because we have Cousins (the defense is NOT going to plan their schemes around stopping Vasquez/JT/Ppat/Landry/Luc/Salmons). If I'm facing the Kings I'm getting one guy to just stick to McLemore, very much like what the Heat did to Danny Green in game 6/7 and what we should have done with guys like Korver and Ryan Andersen. Now if you want to free Ben up it's going to take a lot of off-ball movement frmo both him and his team mates in setting screens for him and such. Seems like a lot of effort to get your #2 option on the board if you ask me ... He will have to get better at creating for himself if he's ever going to be in an all-star discussion.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Bringing up a case like Durant's 4-19 is the outlier. I would guess 97% (?) of those who have shot like that in their first two games in the summer league have never been solid rotational nba players

Curry shot horrible in summer league

 

[mac]

Curry shot horrible in summer league

See my post. And it kinda applies even if Ben is hitting his shots.

 

[dmj]

I suppose the difference between McLemore and Durant/Curry then becomes that he doesn't offer anything other than shooting at this point of his career. FG% aside, both Durant and Curry are far more capable creators off the dribble and that means they can get to the rim when their shot isn't falling or set guys up off of penetration. Therein lies the problem.

Also, just looking at the general concensus here it seems that many feel McLemore will suddenly become open in the regular season just because we have Cousins (the defense is NOT going to plan their schemes around stopping Vasquez/JT/Ppat/Landry/Luc/Salmons). If I'm facing the Kings I'm getting one guy to just stick to McLemore, very much like what the Heat did to Danny Green in game 6/7 and what we should have done with guys like Korver and Ryan Andersen. Now if you want to free Ben up it's going to take a lot of off-ball movement frmo both him and his team mates in setting screens for him and such. Seems like a lot of effort to get your #2 option on the board if you ask me ... He will have to get better at creating for himself if he's ever going to be in an all-star discussion.

Well I definitely agree that he is going to have to work on ball-handling in order to become a good NBA player, and I honestly don't have any illusions about him being on the level of Durant. That being said, young guys who can jump out of the gym and shoot extremely well have all-star potential. You give players like that a couple of seasons, minimum, before you make declare them a bust.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Ray McCall is a good player, but players like him, little chucking guards, are a dime a dozen. Who's this cutey that I wanted us to draft instead?

Stiffs are too. Ray is tough, competes, can defend, rebound, lead and I feel can really climb the ladder for us up the pg hierarchy over the coming years

 

[mac]

Well I definitely agree that he is going to have to work on ball-handling in order to become a good NBA player, and I honestly don't have any illusions about him being on the level of Durant. That being said, young guys who can jump out of the gym and shoot extremely well have all-star potential. You give players like that a couple of seasons, minimum, before you make declare them a bust.

I'm not entirely in agreement with you that athleticism + shooting alone gives you all-star potential, but I will sure give him at least half a season before declaring him a bust. And whether I do or not depends more on what I see in terms of his skills than the actual numbers he puts up. For the record, I thought TRob was a bust, but even now I don't think Jimmer is a bust. I don't think Jimmer will be an all-star, but I see him being coveted as much as Redick. Robinson on the other hand, I see as one of the Morris brothers at best. I could be wrong.

But back to Ben - you know who else is athletic and is a good shooter but can't handle the ball? Danny Green. Not an all-star, but valuable role player. Improvement in ball-handling IMO is more critical for Ben to become a star than shooting is/was for Tyreke.

 

[ElRey]

Ben had a better game this time, much more controlled and didn't force shots. Still Not a good shooting night but definitely improvement. He doesn't look like he's in game shape, maybe that's why his shot has been short. Had two airballs. Definitely need to work on his handles.

 

[Livinthedream]

So we know exactly what Benny Mac's career is going to be after a couple of summer league games? Amazing. This style is not good for his game, period. He plays a team game, not a street ball. That doesn't make him unskilled. Summer league is for guys trying to make an impression to make the team. They could care less about setting up teammates or finding the open man, per se. Ben gets to open spots on the court and waits for his team to find him. Not going to happen. That's not him being lost. That's him expecting the other players to play team ball. No matter if Benny Mac fumbled the ball or not, he looked better when he put his head down and went to the hoop.

What his style is conducive to is the type of team ball that this FO said they are trying to create.

Rick Fox pretty much said it. Be careful about putting your top draft picks in this summer league if it's not going to be good for their game (confidence). If you want Ben to develop at all in this league, the team needs to do exactly what they did in the first game. Run him off screens constantly and let him shoot. Put him in a position to succeed. If you want to build confidence and aggressiveness, tell him to shoot til his heart is content, and forget about FG%. That way he's not thinking about missing shots. When training camp starts, you can reel him in a bit.

 

[Entity]

I expect Ben to have a really good game tomorrow. and the same ppl saying blah blah its only summer league will then be on the other end of the spectrum forgetting themselves it is only summer league.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Well, at least he shot better than 4-23! Looking at things the way they stand, it's clear M16 has to work on his game, handling in particular. The shooting thing I am not concerned with and don't really care at this point unless it begins to carry into the season and stays that way. I understand he is struggling, but you have to look at the entirety of the situation. He is playing in Summer League and he isn't the type of player that flourishes in this type of basketball atmosphere. He isn't an alpha dog because he can't create for himself (yet?) and summer league tends to be dominated by these players. He depends on others. When he plays in the regular season, he will have Cousins and Vasquez looking for him and it will be easier. Still would like to see improvements during summer league though. Luckily for us, he is 20 and not 30, so improvement can happen. It's a good thing we have several psychics on the forum here that already know what McLemore will be so we don't have to wait and see. What a relief !