[Game] Kings vs. Suns, 12/26/2020, 7PM PST, 10PM EST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Game ball to Fox.
When the Kings are 2-0 quit yer bitchin.
Outrebounded their opponent 2 games in a row. Last night by 15!
Holding the Suns to 103 points is a great accomplishment. Defensive intensity is improved.
Barnes is bodying up people and playing much more physical. Fox is playing great. Buddy is hot and cold. Last night he got zero assists.
Bagley is underwhelming, but is playing back into shape. Holmes brings the effort and enthusiasm which the Kings have always needed. Whiteside is great off the bench.
The Kings have very competent players coming off the bench in Joseph, Robinson, Whiteside, and especially Haliburton. Bjelica always seems slow afoot but made some good plays last night on offense. The second unit is going to make a big difference.
When the Kings are 2-0 quit yer bitchin.
Outrebounded their opponent 2 games in a row. Last night by 15!
Holding the Suns to 103 points is a great accomplishment. Defensive intensity is improved.
Barnes is bodying up people and playing much more physical. Fox is playing great. Buddy is hot and cold. Last night he got zero assists.
Bagley is underwhelming, but is playing back into shape. Holmes brings the effort and enthusiasm which the Kings have always needed. Whiteside is great off the bench.
The Kings have very competent players coming off the bench in Joseph, Robinson, Whiteside, and especially Haliburton. Bjelica always seems slow afoot but made some good plays last night on offense. The second unit is going to make a big difference.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well I think it first depends on what your offered, and second, whether your thinking short term or long term. If the Bucks came at the deadline and offered DiVincenzo for Bjelica, would you pass that up? Is making the playoff's more important than the long term future of the team? I can't answer that question until I know what's being offered, but if you have a long term plan, then you stick with it. Period!!!
km23
Bench
I like having to think about these potential problems
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Considering how good DiVincenzo has looked to start the season, if the Bucks offer him for Bjeli, I’m accepting, hanging up the phone, calling the phone company to cancel everything, and sniping the phone line before they can take that trade back.
steelevt
All-Star
Or maybe counter with a defensive minded backup point guard with championship pedigree and a partially guaranteed contract next year?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm surprised that some of you people aren't being critical of the type of athletic shoe Bagley's wearing. Two games, and two double/double's. There was a time when this forum would have been thrilled if JT had been able to do that. Or Willie for that matter. But no, not to be for Bagley, because he's not the player you wanted the Kings to draft. Well get over it. He hasn't even played an entire season of games yet. And the games he has played have been broken up into segments with large gaps in between. In short, his personal progress has been severely stifled.
Bagley is a very competitive player who wants to win. He's playing with a chip on his shoulder, which can be both good and bad. Good because it's incentive, but bad because it can cause you to try and do too much. Overall, I'm pleased with what he's accomplished so far. It's going to take some time for him to get back into the flow of the game. Last season the Kings were near the bottom of the league in rebounding, and now this season, we've killed the first two teams we've played on the boards. Bagley is part of the reason why.
Instead of criticizing him for not being someone else, just judge him for who he is, and what he accomplishes, or doesn't accomplish. But be fair! He's our player on our team. Support him, instead of being petty and nit picking. That doesn't mean you can't be critical, but don't ignore his accomplishments. Yeah, he doesn't use his right hand much when attacking the basket. Well neither does Fox. Can anyone tell me which hand Antetokoumpo uses? Do you even care? All you care about is the results, right? Well judge Bagley on his results, not on which hand he scores with.
By the way, he did attack the basket with his right hand one time last night, so all things in good time. Players aren't static, they're constantly working on their game. While on the subject of Antetokoumpo, (see what I did there) let's do a little comp.
Antetokoumpo:
1st year: 24 mpg - 6.8 ppg - 41.4% fgp - 34.7% 3pp - 4.4 rpg - 1.9 apg - 0.8 stl's - 0.8 blks - played in 77 games
2nd year: 31 mpg - 12.7 ppg - 49.1% fgp - 15.9% 3pp - 6.7 rpg - 2.6 apg - 0.9 stl's - 1.0 blks - played in 81 games
3rd year: 35 mpg - 16.9 ppg - 50.6% fgp - 25.7% 3pp - 7.0 rpg - 4.3 apg - 1.2 stl's - 1.4 blks - played in 80 games
Bagley:
1st year: 25 mpg - 14.9 ppg - 50.4% fgp - 31.3% 3pp - 7.6 rpg - 1.0 apg - 0.5 stl's 1.0 blks - played in 62 games
It wasn't until Antetokoumpo's 4th season that he exploded into the player he is today. In total, Giannis played 4,437 minutes of NBA basketball his first two years, compared to Bagley's 1,900 minutes in his first two years. If you don't think that extra experience doesn't matter then there's no point in having this discussion. Expectations have to be tempered by reality. We don't live in a fantasy world. Well, maybe some of you do...
Bagley is a very competitive player who wants to win. He's playing with a chip on his shoulder, which can be both good and bad. Good because it's incentive, but bad because it can cause you to try and do too much. Overall, I'm pleased with what he's accomplished so far. It's going to take some time for him to get back into the flow of the game. Last season the Kings were near the bottom of the league in rebounding, and now this season, we've killed the first two teams we've played on the boards. Bagley is part of the reason why.
Instead of criticizing him for not being someone else, just judge him for who he is, and what he accomplishes, or doesn't accomplish. But be fair! He's our player on our team. Support him, instead of being petty and nit picking. That doesn't mean you can't be critical, but don't ignore his accomplishments. Yeah, he doesn't use his right hand much when attacking the basket. Well neither does Fox. Can anyone tell me which hand Antetokoumpo uses? Do you even care? All you care about is the results, right? Well judge Bagley on his results, not on which hand he scores with.
By the way, he did attack the basket with his right hand one time last night, so all things in good time. Players aren't static, they're constantly working on their game. While on the subject of Antetokoumpo, (see what I did there) let's do a little comp.
Antetokoumpo:
1st year: 24 mpg - 6.8 ppg - 41.4% fgp - 34.7% 3pp - 4.4 rpg - 1.9 apg - 0.8 stl's - 0.8 blks - played in 77 games
2nd year: 31 mpg - 12.7 ppg - 49.1% fgp - 15.9% 3pp - 6.7 rpg - 2.6 apg - 0.9 stl's - 1.0 blks - played in 81 games
3rd year: 35 mpg - 16.9 ppg - 50.6% fgp - 25.7% 3pp - 7.0 rpg - 4.3 apg - 1.2 stl's - 1.4 blks - played in 80 games
Bagley:
1st year: 25 mpg - 14.9 ppg - 50.4% fgp - 31.3% 3pp - 7.6 rpg - 1.0 apg - 0.5 stl's 1.0 blks - played in 62 games
It wasn't until Antetokoumpo's 4th season that he exploded into the player he is today. In total, Giannis played 4,437 minutes of NBA basketball his first two years, compared to Bagley's 1,900 minutes in his first two years. If you don't think that extra experience doesn't matter then there's no point in having this discussion. Expectations have to be tempered by reality. We don't live in a fantasy world. Well, maybe some of you do...
One of the most welcome developments in these first two games has to be Harrison Barnes grabbing 9 & 11 rebounds. I don't expect him to average 10 boards a night but if he could manage to be above seven rather than his career average of just below five it allows the Kings to play him more at the 4 where I think he's better offensively.
Before the season started I figured he'd have to play alongside Whiteside to get minutes at the 4 spot and not put the team at a rebounding disadvantage. But while Whiteside is still a better defender/rim protector, it opens up options to play Bagley & Barnes with Fox, Hield and either Haliburton or Robinson.
Before the season started I figured he'd have to play alongside Whiteside to get minutes at the 4 spot and not put the team at a rebounding disadvantage. But while Whiteside is still a better defender/rim protector, it opens up options to play Bagley & Barnes with Fox, Hield and either Haliburton or Robinson.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I mostly agree with your post. I’d say only about 5 percent of forum posters are still hung up on not drafting Luka and the overwhelming majority of folks are rooting for Bags to succeed. Unfortunately Marvin is living with the pressure of being a number two pick and being chosen before a generational talent. That has very little to do with the Kings fan base as this would happen anywhere.
As of right now MB111 doesn’t play defense, shoot, pass or make free throws well. He rebounds and gets put backs well which his comparable to Holmes production minus the free throws.
He has some time to take his game to another level and I think he can do it. In fact I’m predicting 22 & 15 with 2 made threes for tonight’s game.
I think if Marvin can stay healthy we'll see gradual and continual improvement from him. Long term I think to be really successful he either (a) has to get stronger and improve as a defender so that he can be a full time center or (b) become a good enough shooter to play alongside another big without compromising floor spacing.
If he manages to do both then the Kings have a star on their hands.
I’m amazed at the amount of forum posts ripping on Bagley. It’s over analyzing to the extreme. Some of it is absurd. Guy gets a double double in 21 minutes. Yes, he’s got things to work on but hes also not as crapty as some are saying on defense. Far from it. And it’s the same situation when people were ripping into Fox about a week ago. If you focus on the Things he doesn’t do well, you forget, or in some forum members case ignore, what he can do. Yeah, Fox’s 3 point shot can be better but his other assets are off the chart.
The 2 instances last night of him rebounding and going coast to coast and then also getting out on the break and taking the feed and finishing, those are what he does extremely well and can’t be ignored. Not many bigs can do that. It forces the other team to account for him and those abilities. And he rebounds well.
I don’t think the Kings even know how to use Bagley yet. He’s better facing up instead of posting up I believe. And though he’s not getting assists, he hasn’t been stopping the ball for the most part, he continues to swing it. If he stays healthy, he’s a big piece of this franchises future and a cornerstone. I think it’s exciting as hell to see what he can become.
The 2 instances last night of him rebounding and going coast to coast and then also getting out on the break and taking the feed and finishing, those are what he does extremely well and can’t be ignored. Not many bigs can do that. It forces the other team to account for him and those abilities. And he rebounds well.
I don’t think the Kings even know how to use Bagley yet. He’s better facing up instead of posting up I believe. And though he’s not getting assists, he hasn’t been stopping the ball for the most part, he continues to swing it. If he stays healthy, he’s a big piece of this franchises future and a cornerstone. I think it’s exciting as hell to see what he can become.
People spend a lot of time talking about Bagley because his development will have a lot to do with how much the Kings can improve their record.
Barnes is rebounding well and playing position basketball. He is strong at the 3, but is showing signs of doing fine at the 4 with 3 guards.
Barnes is rebounding well and playing position basketball. He is strong at the 3, but is showing signs of doing fine at the 4 with 3 guards.
If Bagley had not gotten hurt in the first game last season followed by a string of unfortunate injuries to others we'd be in a very different reality right now. I am just glad that the start to this season is feeling like what we all hoped to see last season. We got an upgrade at GM and Haliburton for our trouble, Fox re-signed and a little bit of cap flexibility at the expense of Bogi and Giles (probably long term gain despite the pain of ripping off a few bandaids there).
Livinthedream
All-Star
I agree he's better facing up. He covers so much ground so quickly defenders can't recover. Even more evident going coast to coast. He moves faster with the ball in his hands, which is rare. Even more rare for a guy that's 6'11. Someone that big coming down hill at full speed is unstoppable. This is why he is not playing center full time. He can be so much more and shows flashes of it every game.
Closing this thread so there's no confusion with tonight's game thread.
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