[Game] Kings vs Rockets, 1/2/2021, 2PM PST, 5PM EST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Livinthedream
All-Star
People have a right to dislike who they want to, but it's unfair to put labels on someone that just aren't true. I have never heard he doesn't work hard.
Siranthony
Starter
It was disappointing to see the team from the bubble show up yesterday. I hear people talk about Basketball IQ all the time. But Halibrton really shows what BB IQ is. I think BB IQ is being selfless. Being a team player. Passing first, playing defense and making good decisions. We have talent but only one player who is a leader.
I don't think it's that complicated or philosophical - we just don't have enough playmakers / shooters. Ideally you'd want guys who can do both, but if not then at least have enough guys who are good at each separately. Fox is more of a scorer than a playmaker, and while Buddy is trying and actually getting Holmes/Bagley some good looks rolling to the basket you really don't want him to be even your secondary playmaker. Without Hali, we really lack shooting and playmaking on the bench.
John Galt
Starter
are you serious? You can SEE that he doesn't work hard. Is he stronger than he was 3 years ago? Does he shoot with his right hand better than he did 3 years ago? Do you see any indications that he does work hard? It is not a reach. He was #2 pick - kid phenom - he expects success to happen.
kb02
All-Star
Funny. Dort is a catch and on a great contract. Jones is significantly worse than Bags. Bags for Mikal?
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
look at his body now compared to when he first came into the league. Look at his shooting stroke on the perimeter and, yes, his passing. He is improving, just not in the one arbitrary area you’ve randomly deemed most important.
King Baller
All-Star
Looking for a goat to put the loss on is not unreasonable. But Bagley is not it, sorry. He barely played from the middle of the 3rd quarter on. Cojo, Buddy, Swipa, HB and Holmes played most of the 4th. Yes the fabled small unit. Houston just beat the Kings.
See who played when here---> http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20210102&game=SACHOU
Trading Bagley now makes no sense. The right play IMO is to develop him into a better player who then is an asset. Either playing for the Kings or on the trading block.
I get it though. The other 2018 draftees have played well. MBIII has been hurt and only played the equivalent of one season. He is only 21 and is a Big. Bigs normally take longer to develop.
By the way, claiming he does not put in the work makes little sense. No one has ever said he does not work hard, regardless of your perception.
DesertFox
Starter
I hope they keep him if they think he can still develop.
If the Kings trade Bagley, I'll be disappointed only in Bagley for not showing the team he has the upside worth keeping. His draft slot no longer matters, he must be looked at for who he is.
They've had him for 2 and a half years, and if they get an offer thry think worthy, then deal him. They dumped Thomas Robinson half a season in and got Patrick Patterson, a bad trade when you think of the #5 pick, but good when you look at the results. They waited a whole season to dump Stauskus, for the privilege of losing picks.
The season is still early, but it is looking like he is going to be an 11 million dollar, low efficiency, offense-first big. Montrezl Harrell and Serge Ibaka make 9million. The clock is ticking.
rosa u podne
Bench
Mikal is the player I wanted the Kings to draft instead of (gulp) Luka. While he is not Luka level, he is at least a perfect complement to Fox. Good shooter, a good defender, plays team ball, does not request the ball in his hands. I suspect Suns management would LOL on that trade proposal.
In Rockets #2, the Kings' offense collapsed in the second half. Were they tired, did they get lazy, or did they panic? They scored a total of 30 points in a half because they stopped moving without the ball. They were standing around, they got dribblitis, they forced a lot of bad shots after 24 seconds. Their offense was reduced to pushing the ball or Fox making penetration. How can this happen to a pro basketball team with experienced players? They looked like a high school team.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Except the Kings have been actually playing well in the first half of games where Bagley gets the bulk of his minutes.
The team doesn't need a scapegoat. They need to make half time adjustments and get their rotations straight.
kb02
All-Star
Pretty certain Suns management would LOL that proposal. We haven't heard much about Woodard. Maybe it's time to develop our own Dort.
whozit
Starter
Doesn't that make the coaching the scapegoat? My question is how long before one particular individual gets shown the door. You lose the fans when they can't attend, they may not attend when they can.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I mean, the Suns management also passed on Luka to draft Ayton and then two seasons later passed on the ideal third guard/future wingman for Booker in Haliburton to draft Ayton's backup so let's not pretend the Suns front office is a bunch of savants or anything.
kb02
All-Star
I agree. I'm not lauding that Phoenix FO at all. Just making a comment on the value of Bridges vs. Bags right now.
It may seem as though I'm down on Bags. I'm not. Would gladly eat crow.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I think the ultimate thing that the keep him/trade him argument boils down to is that either way, it would be in the Kings best interest to see the dude play late game minutes to either give him the experience with the other young members of the core and/or to rebuild his trade value enough that you get assets back in a deal.
whozit
Starter
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Both could be true.
Livinthedream
All-Star
kb02
All-Star
I want Bags to see late game minutes as well, but I'm not ready to choose a side yet (Bags development or Walton's totally understandable intentions), because of the following reasons:
1. I think all coaches want to win. Unlike lifelong fans, coaches have short battery lives. Walsh got pushed out. Seifert was a winning coach and he got tanked. Ben Howland took the Bruins to two final fours and got fired. It's just how things are for coaches.
2. Think Walton, despite his age and despite the fancy GSW NBA 2.0 background, is conservative. In crunch time, he's going to choose what is a known known over an unknown unknown.
3. I feel like I need to say this again, but I'm totally okay with the Kings firing Walton. What I think is a total farce, however, is that Gentry would play Bags or the kids more minutes. Gentry won't.
4. And even if Walton was canned, I don't know if McNair would go full Presti. Where he fires a proven coach (Donovan) and hires a new unproven coach who matches the team's arc (Dagineaul?). Hiring a young, innovative coach who is willing to play unproven rookies when his tenure is not dictated by whether the team wins or loses. Now, admittedly, I love that OKC front office. I'd trade an unprotected Kings first for Presti. Forget Hinkie. Presti is the dude. He settles on a strategy and then goes all in. Dude lost Durant, got George, sold Russ and George, and now have SGA, Bazely (who is looking like a young Odom), and Dort (who is looking like a 2 guard version of Artest). Plus 20 first round draft picks. And vet salary conversions in Hill and Horford once he's eaten up the bad $ years with salary cap space.
So, TLDR, I guess it's carry on with the status quo for now. We'll see.
It's not the team that needs a scapegoat. It's the masses that need it. And they settle on a new one basically every year.
gil renard
Bench
The excuses here for trashBag never stop. We non-homers know how this is going to end.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
With Bagley probably looking like a stud on some other team and some of the same people advocating dumping him angrily shouting about us having traded him? It's the Kings, so that's probably most likely.
gil renard
Bench
Lol. He’s more likely to be out of the league in three years than become a stud. This guy has Anthony Bennett written all over him...low IQ, lazy work ethic, bad attitude. The fans making excuses for MB are all a bunch of Vlade-stans still carrying water for him.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
No one connected to the team or basketball in general has ever been anything less than complimentary about Bagley's work ethic and Bagley's "bad attitude" largely seems to be fans attributing his dad's comments to him rather than anything the guy has actually done himself.
Anthony Bennett was fat, under skilled, and undersized. Bagley is pretty much none of those but has had injury issues and also had to deal with one coach who actively railed against him being on the team to the point of getting fired and another coach who is running offensive sets from the 1990s. I am by no means even a huge Bagley fan from a prospect perspective but he's still just 21 and only 81 games into his career. Giving up on him now, especially in the middle of a season that most of us were in favor of tanking through and maximizing playing time for the youngsters, is less than ideal.
And, I should add, I am far from a "Vlade-stan", whatever the hell that means.
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Stan for the GM who's gone.
Now face north.
Think about direction wonder what's Vlade smoking now.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Early contender for post of the year.
gil renard
Bench
He and his dad along with that other cancer Buddy had that coach fired. How’d that work out? Dave had them playing the best ball of their careers, now you couldn’t even give them away for a bag of chips. We need to cut bait with these cancerous malcontent/social media diva type of players if we’re going to build a winning culture here.
Also, you are one of the (many) Vlade-stans that populate this particular site. I recall you and the mods cheerleading when Vlade replaced Dave with Puke Lalton.
John Galt
Starter
Bagley refused to come back and play with a sore hand last year after the doctors had cleared him. After the doctors had cleared him. It happened. He has done nothing to counter the perception that he is a marshmallow. I hope he does... but so far.. nah.
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