[Game] Kings vs. Pelicans, 5 April 2022, 7pm PT/10pm ET

[The_Jamal]

To which we can compare the astute-drafting Spurs, for whom over the last 20 years the following players have made it to their second contract:
Tony Parker
Tiago Splitter
Kawhi Leonard
Dejounte Murray
Derrick White
Manu Ginobili sort of (was drafted more than 20 years ago but came over less than 20 years ago)

So two of the players on there (and the sort-of) are better than the Kings' players (not like Cousins and Fox are slouches) but the count is the same. 5 (+1) have made it to the second contract.

Parker a 3x all-star, fringe-HoF, Manu is a Hof (if we're counting him in our list), Murray is well on his way to being a career all-star type, Kawhi is a HoF, Derrick White is a quality starting guard and Tiago Splitter, the worst guy on the list, was a quality rotational big for 5 years with the Spurs before falling off.

Not to mention, they probably have the worst draft capital to work with in the NBA the last 20 years because of how consistently dominant they've been, only recently falling off. I think they win.

But point well taken overall. My initial thought was the Kings have been especially bad at getting guys to second contracts, but perhaps that sort of "2nd contract hit rate" is somewhat standard. If you factor in busts and trades, most teams are probably in that 5-10 range. Perhaps our bigger problem is on rookie guys we did hit on, we let them walk for nothing without a plan.

 

[iowamcnabb]

8?

I got... Reke, Cuz, IT, Hali.

Davion was pretty iffy for most of the year, so I'm being a stickler. Fox was a garbo rookie.

I feel like I'm snubbing somebody, but definitely couldn't think of 8 good rookies with a gun to my head haha.

I was probably being kind but Mitchell, Bogi, Omri and JT made the cut for me.

 

[Turgenev]

And Bagley was first team All rookie if you want to use that as a 'successful rookie' measure.*

*Quickly leaves the thread

 

[serbiangoat]

Parker a 3x all-star, fringe-HoF, Manu is a Hof (if we're counting him in our list), Murray is well on his way to being a career all-star type, Kawhi is a HoF, Derrick White is a quality starting guard and Tiago Splitter, the worst guy on the list, was a quality rotational big for 5 years with the Spurs before falling off.

Not to mention, they probably have the worst draft capital to work with in the NBA the last 20 years because of how consistently dominant they've been, only recently falling off. I think they win.

But point well taken overall. My initial thought was the Kings have been especially bad at getting guys to second contracts, but perhaps that sort of "2nd contract hit rate" is somewhat standard. If you factor in busts and trades, most teams are probably in that 5-10 range. Perhaps our bigger problem is on rookie guys we did hit on, we let them walk for nothing without a plan.

Parker is 100% HOF

 

[SacTownKid]

Parker a 3x all-star, fringe-HoF, Manu is a Hof (if we're counting him in our list), Murray is well on his way to being a career all-star type, Kawhi is a HoF, Derrick White is a quality starting guard and Tiago Splitter, the worst guy on the list, was a quality rotational big for 5 years with the Spurs before falling off.

Not to mention, they probably have the worst draft capital to work with in the NBA the last 20 years because of how consistently dominant they've been, only recently falling off. I think they win.

But point well taken overall. My initial thought was the Kings have been especially bad at getting guys to second contracts, but perhaps that sort of "2nd contract hit rate" is somewhat standard. If you factor in busts and trades, most teams are probably in that 5-10 range. Perhaps our bigger problem is on rookie guys we did hit on, we let them walk for nothing without a plan.

And most of the players were drafted when the Spurs were contenders, not lotto leeches like the Kings, haha.

 

[gunks]

Bogi was all rookie

Ah good catch! Probably forgot about ole Bogi since I absolutely hated him here on the Kings, but objectively he was definitely a good rookie.

One of Vlade's 3 decent moves as GM.

 

[EIM86]

Really is. And the guys even worth a 2nd contract (IT,Reke,Bogi) we let walk with no return due to incredibly poor planning from the FO or just plain stupidity. You could argue those 3 are all in the top 6 of rookie contract hits (Kevin Martin somewhere in there and Boogie/Fox 1 and 2), and we just let them go without a plan.

Thankfully, the early returns on Monte have been excellent in terms of bunking this trend. Hali at 12 got you a top 25 player in a trade (hopefully long-term) and Davion looks well on his way to being a starting quality player. Found Jones and Metu off the street and both look like NBA players. Bought extremely low on a quality rotation/starter in DDV. No idea if Trey Lyles is just a flash in the pan on his career best streak with us, but he's been excellent and still just 26.

Small steps, but this is how you start to build a team out of the dumps. Making winning transactions and finding NBA talent for very little cost investment.

Us calling Monte a “tinkerer” is turning out to be a good thing so far. I would say the overall talent of the team has gone up rather then down. Yeah he’s made some questionable moves but none of them were franchise breaking (as of today). However, he’s also made a splash that the fan base has been begging for. We’ve heard he’s got the ultimatum of playoffs or fired. Let’s hope he can build a team to the former.

 

[Kingster]

Even though I like Mitchell very much for his defense, heart and overall winner vibe, I still have gnawing doubts about how he complements Sabonis in the future. And to my mind Sabonis is where the design of the offense should start. I don't see how a smaller guard who dribbles a lot on offense to get space for shooting or passing is going to fit in a Sabonis-centered offense that features a lot of cutting by guards. I could see Fox in that role as a slasher and cutter. But Mitchell? If he's playing with Sabonis he's going to have to conservatively pick his spots to put the ball on the floor and be much more efficient with his dribble, not dribbling around "freelance" looking for space to shoot or pass. Hopefully, a good coach will give him some wise direction next year on picking his dribbling spots and how to play with Sabonis. It's going to be interesting to watch.

 

[nunob8]

Tough when he decidedly has a slower reaction to everything on the court when everything is happening at a faster pace in the 4th. Good that he got to experience it though.

Kinda tough to get used to the speed of the game when our dumbass coach refuses to play him, Queta has a total of 82 minutes played with Sacramento, so its hard to expect him to get up to speed like this.

 

[ESP47]

Really is. And the guys even worth a 2nd contract (IT,Reke,Bogi) we let walk with no return due to incredibly poor planning from the FO or just plain stupidity. You could argue those 3 are all in the top 6 of rookie contract hits (Kevin Martin somewhere in there and Boogie/Fox 1 and 2), and we just let them go without a plan.

Thankfully, the early returns on Monte have been excellent in terms of bunking this trend. Hali at 12 got you a top 25 player in a trade (hopefully long-term) and Davion looks well on his way to being a starting quality player. Found Jones and Metu off the street and both look like NBA players. Bought extremely low on a quality rotation/starter in DDV. No idea if Trey Lyles is just a flash in the pan on his career best streak with us, but he's been excellent and still just 26.

Small steps, but this is how you start to build a team out of the dumps. Making winning transactions and finding NBA talent for very little cost investment.

Hey we got Greivis Vasquez and Alex Oriakhi in those deals!

The Gerbil trading IT for Oriakhi was one of the dumbest deals of all time. IT was coming off of a 3.2 VORP season. We haven't had a player in the 3s since Cousins. The fact that these GMs get paid to do stuff like this is completely mind blowing.

At least Monte traded value for value. If you traded IT for a similar VORP player this year, you'd be looking at players like Garland, Holiday, Bane, LaVine and so forth. But instead, he traded IT for the 57th pick in the draft, who never stepped foot on an NBA court. I don't even understand how he is still employed in the NBA after a move like that.

Monte needs to hit on this draft and he needs Davion to take a step next year. Moving pieces around the chess board to get a better fit is a good idea when trading value for value but the team is so far behind that they need to add new value pieces to the board. Swapping them for similar value players just isn't going to cut it when it comes to a playoff run IMO.

 

[The_Jamal]

Hey we got Greivis Vasquez and Alex Oriakhi in those deals!

The Gerbil trading IT for Oriakhi was one of the dumbest deals of all time. IT was coming off of a 3.2 VORP season. We haven't had a player in the 3s since Cousins. The fact that these GMs get paid to do stuff like this is completely mind blowing.

At least Monte traded value for value. If you traded IT for a similar VORP player this year, you'd be looking at players like Garland, Holiday, Bane, LaVine and so forth. But instead, he traded IT for the 57th pick in the draft, who never stepped foot on an NBA court. I don't even understand how he is still employed in the NBA after a move like that.

Monte needs to hit on this draft and he needs Davion to take a step next year. Moving pieces around the chess board to get a better fit is a good idea when trading value for value but the team is so far behind that they need to add new value pieces to the board. Swapping them for similar value players just isn't going to cut it when it comes to a playoff run IMO.

Yeah, we let a dude with a 5th place in MVP voting on his resume walk because we didn't want to pay him an extra 500k/season lol. It's not quite passing on Luka level, or firing Malone level, but trading IT for nothing because we didn't want to pay him is absolutely on the family feud board of "Why the Kings have sucked for 16 years".

And yeah, McNair needs to crush this off-season. Really is the tipping point of potentially turning this ship around (Finding a great coach, hitting another FRP, etc), or another quick descent into suck if we don't show a winner to Sabonis and he's got his feet out the door.

 

[ESP47]

Yeah, we let a dude with a 5th place in MVP voting on his resume walk because we didn't want to pay him an extra 500k/season lol. It's not quite passing on Luka level, or firing Malone level, but trading IT for nothing because we didn't want to pay him is absolutely on the family feud board of "Why the Kings have sucked for 16 years".

And yeah, McNair needs to crush this off-season. Really is the tipping point of potentially turning this ship around (Finding a great coach, hitting another FRP, etc), or another quick descent into suck if we don't show a winner to Sabonis and he's got his feet out the door.

Yep that's true. He needs to hit on a coach just as bad as he needs to hit on a player. Our team plays amateur basketball compared to many of the other teams out there. It's painful to watch other bad teams look better than the Kings, despite not having half the talent.

 

[EIM86]

Yep that's true. He needs to hit on a coach just as bad as he needs to hit on a player. Our team plays amateur basketball compared to many of the other teams out there. It's painful to watch other bad teams look better than the Kings, despite not having half the talent.

I would say hitting on coach is way more important. If the coach has a clear plan and is implementing it with his current group of players, the GM’s job gets a lot easier to do what he needs to do.

 

[steelevt]

Hey we got Greivis Vasquez and Alex Oriakhi in those deals!

The Gerbil trading IT for Oriakhi was one of the dumbest deals of all time. IT was coming off of a 3.2 VORP season. We haven't had a player in the 3s since Cousins. The fact that these GMs get paid to do stuff like this is completely mind blowing.

At least Monte traded value for value. If you traded IT for a similar VORP player this year, you'd be looking at players like Garland, Holiday, Bane, LaVine and so forth. But instead, he traded IT for the 57th pick in the draft, who never stepped foot on an NBA court. I don't even understand how he is still employed in the NBA after a move like that.

Monte needs to hit on this draft and he needs Davion to take a step next year. Moving pieces around the chess board to get a better fit is a good idea when trading value for value but the team is so far behind that they need to add new value pieces to the board. Swapping them for similar value players just isn't going to cut it when it comes to a playoff run IMO.

Trading the 60th draft pick for the 57th pick? Sounds like a win to me