[Game] Kings vs Mavs, 8/4/2020 11:30AM PST 3:30AM JST

SacTownKid said:
Eh, maybe but it might not have mattered. Lets be honest. The effort was great but the truth is anyone with eyeballs could still see a team allowing open 3's being unable to closeout (mostly when big) and one of the best 3 point shooting teams missing the shots they wanted. Seth plays this and it's probably ugly at some point. He's been their one semi-consistent threat from outside during the re-start.
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so you are saying better to get it over with than to keep the hope alive lol :). you are probably right. i do believe though that we were hurt by the virus. we hit our stride before the break and were playing well. I think they have been increasing form in these 3 games and are starting to play better but its going to be too late
 
SacTownKid said:
Eh, maybe but it might not have mattered. Lets be honest. The effort was great but the truth is anyone with eyeballs could still see a team allowing open 3's being unable to closeout (mostly when big) and one of the best 3 point shooting teams missing the shots they wanted. Seth plays this and it's probably ugly at some point. He's been their one semi-consistent threat from outside during the re-start.
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It’s easy to point to the missed three’s, but wasn’t that offset by all the GD free throws?? If they didn’t get those and shot better from 3, might have been in the same spot regardless.

Btw, shame on the NBA for reversing the charge call on #77 just to spare him from foul trouble. That was a charge all day, every day. Don’t care if Barnes was ever so slightly moving. That charge call happens game in game out and the KINGS are called for it all the freaking time. #77 initiated contact and barreled over Barnes.

Calls just like that are what led to 50 free throws.
 
burekijogurt said:
so you are saying better to get it over with than to keep the hope alive lol :). you are probably right. i do believe though that we were hurt by the virus. we hit our stride before the break and were playing well. I think they have been increasing form in these 3 games and are starting to play better but its going to be too late
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Haha. Well I do think it's getting to that point where feelings and confidence are so damaged it doesn't matter what you do. We've heard the tune before and it sounds like tuning out. We followed that stride and I'm sure there are posts in game threads about it. What worked then was working all season (small ball) and the positives they were relying on otherwise I don't think were sustainable. The games prior were starting to get shaky and circumstances involving the opposing team and schedule were breaking in the Kings favor. That stride was good but I don't think it was taking this team anywhere long term and what worked was still being tinkered with in game for no real good reason.
 
SacTownKid said:
He made Doncic work but in the end talent wins out. Corey is a good role player but I'd still take Buddy and Bogdan taking 10 shots to get going as a more likely winning strategy than watching the majority minutes go to your 2nd PG. This is all so flawed it's surreal.
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Then you’d be sitting over in the same corner sulking with Walton and making excuses. Bogi was awful today and everyone could see he didn’t have it except the guy making the decisions. The same guy that left Buddy on the bench when he was actually hitting a few shots today.

Can’t figure Walton out. At all.

He sticks with Buddy the first game when he can’t hit a shot, then leaves him out today in favor of Bogi when he actually shot the ball much better between the two. That 2-3 minute stretch after Fox put the KINGS up 6 is what did them in. They couldn’t score. Because they kept giving the ball to the guy that proved he couldn’t shoot it this particular game.

That tactic is akin to not drawing up plays for a player that can’t miss.
 
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KingsFanSince85 said:
It’s easy to point to the missed three’s, but wasn’t that offset by all the GD free throws?? If they didn’t get those and shot better from 3, might have been in the same spot regardless.

Btw, shame on the NBA for reversing the charge call on #77 just to spare him from foul trouble. That was a charge all day, every day. Don’t care if Barnes was ever so slightly moving. That charge call happens game in game out and the KINGS are called for it all the freaking time. #77 initiated contact and barreled over Barnes.

Calls just like that are what led to 50 free throws.
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Some fouls were BS for sure and the reverse call was crap but in todays NBA teams want one of two things, basket shots (free throws can be settled on) and 3's. The Kings are a very giving team apparently. You can take either/or, or feast on a combo platter of all of the above. Another thing that has to be realized is the Kings set themselves up to foul. When you rely on closeouts and switching while not playing units effective at either it leaves you one option, FOULING. The Kings help defensive strategy also likely leads to fouls. They help in the paint with a PG or SG usually. What are they going to stop at the rim? They had Bjelica do it more today which is probably better but then he's responsible to closeout. On a good day he can put in the effort but this is also why you don't burn him into the ground like that. This isn't the first time Walton has done that to him. What a joke.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Then you’d be sitting over in the same corner sulking with Walton and making excuses. Bogi was awful today and everyone could see he didn’t have it except the guy making the decisions. The same guy that left Buddy on the bench when he was actually hitting a few shots today.

Can’t figure Walton out. At all.

He sticks with Buddy the first game when he can’t hit a shot, then leaves him out today in favor of Bogi when he actually shot the ball much better between the two. That 2-3 minute stretch after Fox put the KINGS up 6 is what did them in. They couldn’t score. Because they kept giving the ball to the guy that proved he couldn’t shoot it this particular game.

That tactic is akin to not drawing up plays for a player than can’t miss.
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Maybe some nights but talent wins out. Logic is logic. Roll with the cards you're dealt. Preferably the face cards. However you want to put it. I'd rather the bounce of the ball take you out rather than yourself before the game has started because you think a team led by a career 6 ppg scorer is your best shot. Gee wonder if all these things add up over the course of a season? One point of clarity this season is that Buddy going off is the only thing that has saved Walton in plenty of games. Or taken ugly losses into comeback territory. Sometimes the best thing a coach can do is rotate in and out properly then step aside. So far he's not doing the first and probably doing too much of the latter.
 
Just finished watching the recording.
I just want to point it was one hell of an effort on the refs part. Just when it looked bleak for them and Dallas, their persistence was rewarded.

Good effort on the Kings part. The 4th quarter and overtime iso offense with the lack of any movement, ball or player wise was just horrific.

Kudos for Walton to instill Cojo in place of Bjelica to set the tone defensively but the reality is Walton is not very good.

And I’m of the opinion that we shouldn’t give Bogi anything resembling a big or semi big contract. These first 3 games in the bubble are a clear example of what Bogi is.....good game 1, worse in game 2, downright helped cost the game in game 3. He’s a coach killer. I like him but not for the contract he wants and his inconsistency is going to kill us. We can get the same production from an overall game standpoint from Bazemore.

Same goes for Bjelica. Really like him. But hes a net negative way to many games. Make the hard call and go in another direction.

I don’t think we need to rebuild. But we do need to move on from some pieces and get better fitting more athletic and quicker pieces. And Bagley is a key piece. He and Holmes are the center rotation.

Really need to play Jeffries the remainder of the way. And quite honestly Guy and James. I’m assuming we are out. If we got a chance you wait on Guy and James but at some point this is free opportunity to evaluate and get a head start on next year.
 
dude12 said:
Just finished watching the recording.
I just want to point it was one hell of an effort on the refs part. Just when it looked bleak for them and Dallas, their persistence was rewarded.

Good effort on the Kings part. The 4th quarter and overtime iso offense with the lack of any movement, ball or player wise was just horrific.

Kudos for Walton to instill Cojo in place of Bjelica to set the tone defensively but the reality is Walton is not very good.

And I’m of the opinion that we shouldn’t give Bogi anything resembling a big or semi big contract. These first 3 games in the bubble are a clear example of what Bogi is.....good game 1, worse in game 2, downright helped cost the game in game 3. He’s a coach killer. I like him but not for the contract he wants and his inconsistency is going to kill us. We can get the same production from an overall game standpoint from Bazemore.

Same goes for Bjelica. Really like him. But hes a net negative way to many games. Make the hard call and go in another direction.

I don’t think we need to rebuild. But we do need to move on from some pieces and get better fitting more athletic and quicker pieces. And Bagley is a key piece. He and Holmes are the center rotation.

Really need to play Jeffries the remainder of the way. And quite honestly Guy and James. I’m assuming we are out. If we got a chance you wait on Guy and James but at some point this is free opportunity to evaluate and get a head start on next year.
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Waltons version of small ball has always been 2 PG. The whole point in playing "small" is that you maintain enough size to not have to always double and help. Jeffries could be a great asset. He can probably guard a lot of centers with these lineups. Yeah, if Walton isn't going to push some clutter to the back of the bench then Vlade has to stop overfilling his cup.
 
SacTownKid said:
Barnes is actually the key to any success by almost all 5 man metrics. Not as a performer but as the glue/fit that makes a small ball team work. Especially defensively. Walton relies on switches and closeouts, no duh why playing big doesn't seem to work. Small worked in this one BTW even though 2 PG is still a loser coach! Has been since Fox was drafted although Joseph is a much better option than the previous ones of Yogi, Frank Mason, and George Hill. We discussed this in the season as well but starting off big puts this team in a hole. Starting small then transitioning big isn't ideal but it seems to stave off that typical lurch at the beginning of games.
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I understand all of that, but at some point Barnes needs to step up and do more than just be a fit that allows us to play a certain style of basketball, especially one that we haven't even really seen actual success with. He's the highest paid player on our team for God's sake.
 
Sucks to be at this point... but I'm glad this is happening. This team needs to totally bottom out and Vivek needs to finally be embarrassed at the product on the court. Vlade just paid a ton of money for Buddy and Barnes, Bogi is on his way to a 15mil+ extension and Fox will be getting his rookie max... for what? 100+ mil core to not be a competitive team?

Nothing is going to change until the power structure changes. Just depends how far ownership wants this ship to sink to realize it.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
I understand all of that, but at some point Barnes needs to step up and do more than just be a fit that allows us to play a certain style of basketball, especially one that we haven't even really seen actual success with. He's the highest paid player on our team for God's sake.
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That's not his fault. Who paid him? Barnes is a decent player, somewhere around an average NBA player, but he's not a guy with a skill-set you should be relying on night in and night out. Ideally, he's a good stretch 4 who spaces the floor, plays solid defense, runs the floor well in transition and can get you some occasional ISO buckets while getting to the line.

Meanwhile, TJ Warren, who costs $10 million less/ year than Barnes does, has outperformed him all year and is going absolutely bonkers in the restart. And PHX was literally giving him away for free and even attaching a high 2nd round pick for someone to take him. I'd think they would have really been interested in all our future 2nds, considering they got nothing back from Indy.
 
One thing that has to be said loud and clear is that our best players are just playing bad basketball.

Yes, Fox is putting up a great numbers for himself, but he was incapable of calling a single play in the last 5 minutes. Those iso attacks over 2-3 opposing players are the way we play basketball for fun outside of the building. He can score 40 each night as far as I’m concerned but Kings are going nowhere with him as a #1 player. Just compared Doncic’s game with Fox’s game tonight and you will understand the difference. Fox is not a facilitator, he doesn’t have a high BBIQ and cannot score on a consistent basis.

I’m personally done with Bogdan. He should try finding the rhythm somewhere else nect season and maybe even go back to Europe if that doesn’t work. No confidence, too much hesitation, bad decisions, bad shots... Bazemore is doing everything that Bogdan should be doing right now for a lot less money and less hype.

I don’t understand why many people insist on blaming Bjelica this much. First off, he’s a backup PF playing high minutes because Bagley is constantly injured. Secondly, he’s shooting the ball nicely and providing spacing for us. He’s also a good facilitator and moves the ball great to find the open guy (Bazemore, Buddy, Bogdan). Lastly, he’s genuinly hustling and trying his best. If he took the amount of shots Fox and Buddy are taking, he’d score 20+ every game easily. He’s not the reason we’re losing, at least not in top 5.

Fire Walton, fire Divac, acquire all star player who has a few great years ahead and build around him. Tired of young prospects who never develop enough and tired of mediocre players who are here to hustle but don’t know much more than that.
 
ppine said:
Bogdonavic continues with his dribble itis and throwing up clunkers. The guy does not have it.
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I don’t get the fascination with him. He’s an average player who can flash above, but usually doesn’t, plays stupidly more often than not, and is wildly inconsistent.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
I understand all of that, but at some point Barnes needs to step up and do more than just be a fit that allows us to play a certain style of basketball, especially one that we haven't even really seen actual success with. He's the highest paid player on our team for God's sake.
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You can't let the tinkering cloud the moments of success. His willingness to fit could be a major positive and we all knew for that role he would be overpaid as similar players in his position these days do. Remember many thought he was going to usurp the offense and iso the team into infinity when they traded for him. Now it looks like they might need it! With what Walton has done along with the injuries hes had to deal with all we have to go on is moments. And those moments paint a pretty clear picture. Small ball is best. Buddy and Barnes are two of the consistent components in those units succeeding. The offensive rating and defensive ratings equal out to positive in most of those scenarios. Whereas, the big starting unit in the first two bubble games came out to an average of -44.7.
 
SLAB said:
I don’t get the fascination with him. He’s an average player who can flash above, but usually doesn’t, plays stupidly more often than not, and is wildly inconsistent.
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Lets put some of this in perspective though too. What is Bogdans main NBA level skill? Pick and roll right? Who is running pick and roll from the bench? Now, I think Buddy is about as traditional a SG as you get yet he's running pick and roll while Bogdan is being used as a traditional SG and/or taking the ball away from the supposed franchise player. The math wins out even if there are glimpses of the math being beaten.
 
The_Jamal said:
Sucks to be at this point... but I'm glad this is happening. This team needs to totally bottom out and Vivek needs to finally be embarrassed at the product on the court. Vlade just paid a ton of money for Buddy and Barnes, Bogi is on his way to a 15mil+ extension and Fox will be getting his rookie max... for what? 100+ mil core to not be a competitive team?

Nothing is going to change until the power structure changes. Just depends how far ownership wants this ship to sink to realize it.
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I'm not a nice man. Vivek supposedly has lost a lot in his investments. He has controlling interest but not majority ownership meaning if he wanted to cash out unable to afford more losses. It wouldn't cost a true whale a huge amount to buy controlling interest with minority ownership and he never was a true whale just a big fish. I'm hoping he's gotten cold feet
 
I am still in shock watching Luka dominate games at the age of 21. I will never say "Luka who?" again.
Meanwhile, we are learning that Bagley may be just too fragile to compete every night with full grown men.
 
dude12 said:
Just finished watching the recording.
I just want to point it was one hell of an effort on the refs part. Just when it looked bleak for them and Dallas, their persistence was rewarded.

Good effort on the Kings part. The 4th quarter and overtime iso offense with the lack of any movement, ball or player wise was just horrific.

Kudos for Walton to instill Cojo in place of Bjelica to set the tone defensively but the reality is Walton is not very good.

And I’m of the opinion that we shouldn’t give Bogi anything resembling a big or semi big contract. These first 3 games in the bubble are a clear example of what Bogi is.....good game 1, worse in game 2, downright helped cost the game in game 3. He’s a coach killer. I like him but not for the contract he wants and his inconsistency is going to kill us. We can get the same production from an overall game standpoint from Bazemore.

Same goes for Bjelica. Really like him. But hes a net negative way to many games. Make the hard call and go in another direction.

I don’t think we need to rebuild. But we do need to move on from some pieces and get better fitting more athletic and quicker pieces. And Bagley is a key piece. He and Holmes are the center rotation.

Really need to play Jeffries the remainder of the way. And quite honestly Guy and James. I’m assuming we are out. If we got a chance you wait on Guy and James but at some point this is free opportunity to evaluate and get a head start on next year.
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I've never thought that Bjelica should be starting at the PF position. He's an off the bench player in my mind. Barnes, is best as a third option, but they should call his number more. He's taken a total of 19 shots in all three games. Buddy took more shots in this game alone. Barnes is what he is. a decent to good defender, and the consummate team player. Meaning he's not one to freelance if his numbers not called. There were games this season when Walton went to Barnes time after time and he kept us in games. But he's not going to go Michael Jordan on you. You want to argue he's a little overpaid, fine, but that's not his fault.

The only reason we weren't blown out in this game is because the Mav's couldn't make a three point shot. If they had hit anything close to their normal percentage, they would have beat us by 20 pt's. I would agree that the ref's seemed to love the Mav's, sending them to the line 50 times, but they did attack the basket more than we did, and they killed us on the boards, 61 to 47. They got way too many 2nd chance points. Our team has no inside presence. Our best post up player is Barnes, but you have to give him the right match up. Posting up against Porzingis is not the ideal matchup.

I'm also curious why Walton went with Joseph for Bjelica instead of either Bazemore or Jeffries? I mean you replaced a 6'10" player with a 6'3" player. Why not a taller player that's also a good defender? I'm really surprised the Mav's didn't take advantage of some of the switch matchups they got. By the way, Bjelica passed up 5 wide open three's before he finally shot one, and that was in the 4th quarter. The whole idea of him being on the floor is to shoot the three, something he's known to be good at. Play to your strengths Beli!!!
 
bajaden said:
I've never thought that Bjelica should be starting at the PF position. He's an off the bench player in my mind. Barnes, is best as a third option, but they should call his number more. He's taken a total of 19 shots in all three games. Buddy took more shots in this game alone. Barnes is what he is. a decent to good defender, and the consummate team player. Meaning he's not one to freelance if his numbers not called. There were games this season when Walton went to Barnes time after time and he kept us in games. But he's not going to go Michael Jordan on you. You want to argue he's a little overpaid, fine, but that's not his fault.

The only reason we weren't blown out in this game is because the Mav's couldn't make a three point shot. If they had hit anything close to their normal percentage, they would have beat us by 20 pt's. I would agree that the ref's seemed to love the Mav's, sending them to the line 50 times, but they did attack the basket more than we did, and they killed us on the boards, 61 to 47. They got way too many 2nd chance points. Our team has no inside presence. Our best post up player is Barnes, but you have to give him the right match up. Posting up against Porzingis is not the ideal matchup.

I'm also curious why Walton went with Joseph for Bjelica instead of either Bazemore or Jeffries? I mean you replaced a 6'10" player with a 6'3" player. Why not a taller player that's also a good defender? I'm really surprised the Mav's didn't take advantage of some of the switch matchups they got. By the way, Bjelica passed up 5 wide open three's before he finally shot one, and that was in the 4th quarter. The whole idea of him being on the floor is to shoot the three, something he's known to be good at. Play to your strengths Beli!!!
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I think Barnes is valuable. He is able to guard multiple types.
Each of these guys taken individually have abilities that can help you win. Bjelica offensively in the right matchup can help, CoJo as a defensive combo guard stopper can help but he’s bad at PG offense, But these guys are squarely in our rotation and their deficiencies hurt when Buddy and or Bogi aren’t having a good game.

I also just don’t dig the lack or athleticism or speed from Bjelica, Bogi, Cojo....Barnes at the 3. I would love to see what happens with a rotation involving Fox, Bazemore, Hield, Jeffries, James, Holmes, Bagley, Barnes, Parker and even Guy. Spot situational minutes for Bjelica, Giles, Len when we need the big body. I want us to get Uber athletic......increase The overall quickness. All I know is this isn’t working.
 
dude12 said:
I think Barnes is valuable. He is able to guard multiple types.
Each of these guys taken individually have abilities that can help you win. Bjelica offensively in the right matchup can help, CoJo as a defensive combo guard stopper can help but he’s bad at PG offense, But these guys are squarely in our rotation and their deficiencies hurt when Buddy and or Bogi aren’t having a good game.

I also just don’t dig the lack or athleticism or speed from Bjelica, Bogi, Cojo....Barnes at the 3. I would love to see what happens with a rotation involving Fox, Bazemore, Hield, Jeffries, James, Holmes, Bagley, Barnes, Parker and even Guy. Spot situational minutes for Bjelica, Giles, Len when we need the big body. I want us to get Uber athletic......increase The overall quickness. All I know is this isn’t working.
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I really thought that speed and athleticism was the route this team was taking when they drafted Bagley and tried to get Levine from the Bulls. I was ready to watch the plan and see how it panned out.

But I'm beyond frustrated at the fact that we keep bringing in coaches who prefer crafty, deliberate, ball pounding players over players with speed and athleticism. It's easier to get behind the team if you at least understand the plan.
 
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