Kings trade Tyrese and Buddy for Sabonis and Holiday and Lamb

SLAB said:
We’ll see. Does Monte risk another season if Fox and Domas are somehow an oil and water anti-combo?
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It'd be pretty foolish to make that determination in the final 25 games of the year and I'd be stunned if McNair did so. I'd want to see what they look like with the McNair coach and a fresh supporting cast suited to their game around them before considering any trade. The whole point of this deal is you think Sabonis/Fox can be a consistent playoff duo. You have to give that time to work itself out before abandoning the project.
 
The_Jamal said:
I think this is just move 1 for what Monte wants his retool to be. Fox/Sabonis will be here game 1 next season, but literally everyone and everything else could be on the chopping block. I'd bet every single dollar I have the team won't enter game 1 next season with a new draft pick being the only change to what's currently on the team.

Is what it is. We've all been advocating for a proper rebuild for literally like 5+ years. Monte chose a different direction (likely at the behest of ownership) and put himself on the clock coinciding with the Sabonis contract. He'll get 2 years with his coach/Fox/Sabonis and the core he puts around them otherwise he's out.
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Yep I agree if he isn’t out sooner. Vivek will be unhappy if/when he fails to make the play-offs and is painted as a bigger clown than he already currently is.
 
sactowndog said:
Yep I agree if he isn’t out sooner. Vivek will be unhappy if/when he fails to make the play-offs and is painted as a bigger clown than he already currently is.
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I don't see that. I agree with Jamal's post above yours. If anything this move bought McNair more time. He can sell Vivek on time needed to retool the roster around Fox/Sabonis, probably get buy in on a wide coaching search, etc.

I think standing pat and making no deals would have been the thing to put him in the hot seat.

A lot of us here have argued that a full rebuild around Haliburton was the right move. Sell low on Fox and trade Barnes, Hield, Bagley etc for young players, draft capital and cap room. In that scenario I think you test the waters to trade Holmes but keep him if there isn't a great deal because he works so well with Tyrese. Build through the draft etc. But I don't think Ranadive would allow that.

So the only real option would be win now moves. As those go, this isn't a terrible deal, regardless of what national sports media says. We'll see what act 2 of this play is soon I hope.
 
Section 101 said:
You know they can trade him at the deadline in 2 years if they don't think he will resign.
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One challenge is that his camp will likely demand/expect max. As of now, I don't see him as that level of player, but if he demands it, can we afford to let him walk for nothing after the price we paid to get him?

Teams would like to avoid such players get to final years of their contract, and an extension is often negotiated ahead. If he gets to the final year of his contract, at least some of the offers will dry up, as teams will hope they can sign him for free. Trading teams also fear that he might not sign long term (though back channel negotiations allow them to get a pulse on the situation). Some of the teams at least might fear this, and may not offer too much.
 
sactowndog said:
Yep I agree if he isn’t out sooner. Vivek will be unhappy if/when he fails to make the play-offs and is painted as a bigger clown than he already currently is.
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He just traded for an all-star level player. We got better talent wise. Added a wing in Holiday. Hurts to lose Hali but we got better. You have been crying for a wing and we got 1 maybe 2 in Lamb……. What’s the problem?
 
SwipaTical said:
Why does fox get the "they haven't put enough talent around him" excuse for 5 years but hali doesn't after a year and a half?
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I don’t know I didn’t say that. Not sure who you are quoting. I mean I don’t care either way. If you guys like him so much Indiana games are broadcast just like the Kings are. It’s over and done. If dealing with it is hard to do I can help you here—-> https://www.nba.com/pacers/schedule
 
Entity said:
I don’t know I didn’t say that. Not sure who you are quoting. I mean I don’t care either way. If you guys like him so much Indiana games are broadcast just like the Kings are. It’s over and done. If dealing with it is hard to do I can help you here—-> https://www.nba.com/pacers/schedule
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Such a garbage weak card to pull. Sounding like Grant after the Luka debacle.
 
Entity said:
I don’t know I didn’t say that. Not sure who you are quoting. I mean I don’t care either way. If you guys like him so much Indiana games are broadcast just like the Kings are. It’s over and done. If dealing with it is hard to do I can help you here—-> https://www.nba.com/pacers/schedule
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You mentioned stats on a bad team. Fox gets the same flack but the fox den always comes back with the rhetoric I mentioned. Why does it work for one and not the other?

And idc either I'm over the trade and optimistic for the future. Just making a point. Be fair.
 
SwipaTical said:
Why does fox get the "they haven't put enough talent around him" excuse for 5 years but hali doesn't after a year and a half?
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Cuz people aren’t crapping on ty like they were on fox. They both play poor defense but fox is to blame. They’re both starting on a losing team but it’s fox that gets the blame. Ty doesn’t need the excuse cuz no one was blaming him yet. It would have come after fox was traded and ty got a pay raise. Trust me. But since ty was on a rookie contract and only his second year, he shouldn’t bear the responsibility of vaulting this crap team to playoff contenders. He had potential to do so and I wish he was with the team still to see it through, but it’s tiresome that fans need to pit our good players against each other all the time.
 
dude12 said:
He just traded for an all-star level player. We got better talent wise. Added a wing in Holiday. Hurts to lose Hali but we got better. You have been crying for a wing and we got 1 maybe 2 in Lamb……. What’s the problem?
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And on the sly they got the two guys in Lamb/Holiday that have the most firm grasp of off ball movement on that team. Lamb coming from UCONN especially is built on moving off the ball and mobility away from action.
 
steelevt said:
Cuz people aren’t crapping on ty like they were on fox. They both play poor defense but fox is to blame. They’re both starting on a losing team but it’s fox that gets the blame. Ty doesn’t need the excuse cuz no one was blaming him yet. It would have come after fox was traded and ty got a pay raise. Trust me. But since ty was on a rookie contract and only his second year, he shouldn’t bear the responsibility of vaulting this crap team to playoff contenders. He had potential to do so and I wish he was with the team still to see it through, but it’s tiresome that fans need to pit our good players against each other all the time.
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5 years to 1 doesn't change things a tad ?
 
kingsfan101 said:
One challenge is that his camp will likely demand/expect max. As of now, I don't see him as that level of player, but if he demands it, can we afford to let him walk for nothing after the price we paid to get him?

Teams would like to avoid such players get to final years of their contract, and an extension is often negotiated ahead. If he gets to the final year of his contract, at least some of the offers will dry up, as teams will hope they can sign him for free. Trading teams also fear that he might not sign long term (though back channel negotiations allow them to get a pulse on the situation). Some of the teams at least might fear this, and may not offer too much.
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Not to be facetious, but if we kept Haliburton we'd have similar concerns about whether he would ask for a max deal, if he's worth that max deal etc.

This a major issue for bad teams. They lack talent so a guy who would be a good player on a contending team is forced to be their best player and gets paid like a franchise guy when he isn't. On the other hand, on a good team that same guy is a 2nd or 3rd (or even 4th) option and gets a contract more in line with his actual value. It can go too far the other way, where a team is so good that rivals poach their 4th best player thinking he can be a star if given more opportunity. We saw this with Harrison Barnes being signed away from the Warriors by the Mavs.

But in general the reality is that if McNair could actually build a winning team in Sacramento and add at least one more impact player, not only would Sabonis be more likely to stay, he'd probably not be getting a max deal to do so.
 
SwipaTical said:
You mentioned stats on a bad team. Fox gets the same flack but the fox den always comes back with the rhetoric I mentioned. Why does it work for one and not the other?

And idc either I'm over the trade and optimistic for the future. Just making a point. Be fair.
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It works for all players though?

Bad teams have a way of distorting a players' stats. Booker scored more points per game in Ayton's rookie year when they sucked eggs than he does this year. It doesn't make him a better or worse player.

Absolutely no one appears to be making the argument that Ty was put in a position to succeed while Fox wasn't so I'm not sure what card it is you're trying to play. If anything the narrative was that the front office was failing both guys by not balancing the roster one way or another.
 
Tetsujin said:
It works for all players though?

Bad teams have a way of distorting a players' stats. Booker scored more points per game in Ayton's rookie year when they sucked eggs than he does this year. It doesn't make him a better or worse player.

Absolutely no one appears to be making the argument that Ty was put in a position to succeed while Fox wasn't so I'm not sure what card it is you're trying to play. If anything the narrative was that the front office was failing both guys by not balancing the roster one way or another.
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He was putting hali down for empty stats. The irony

Entity said:
no comparing games at all. Comparing fan hype. Haliburton is a slightly above average player. some of you act like he is gonna be a multi year all-star. he needs the ball to be effective at all when he is off ball he is invisible and he doesn't make anybody any better. he can jump passing lanes but on ball defense is on par with Buddy.
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Then this beauty, again ironic considering there's a player still on the roster that is described perfectly by what I bolded.
 
SwipaTical said:
He was putting hali down for empty stats. The irony


Then this beauty, again ironic considering there's a player still on the roster that is described perfectly by what I bolded.
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...So your argument is "Both Fox AND Haliburton are putting up empty stats on a bad team."?
 
SwipaTical said:
He was putting hali down for empty stats. The irony


Then this beauty, again ironic considering there's a player still on the roster that is described perfectly by what I bolded.
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exactly. isn't it stupid to have 2 on the same team? one had to go. sorry it was your favorite. you are one guy others are on the other side.
 
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