Kings trade Tyrese and Buddy for Sabonis and Holiday and Lamb

[Mike]

I have no issue with acquiring Sabonis. He’s 25 years old and has two all star appearances to his name. However, his game is flawed because he doesn’t block shots and he isn’t an accurate three point shooter. So either we need to find ourselves a shot blocking, floor spacing 4/5 or we play with two non-shooters in the front court. Time is on Sabonis’ side to develop a consistent three point shot. It wasn’t until Vucevic’s last seasons in Orlando that he started to shoot treys; and the same for Millsap, he didn’t shoot treys until he joined Atlanta. So Sabonis could develop that part of his game, but it’s by no means a guarantee.

If the aim is to build around Fox and Sabonis, two inconsistent outside shooters, then we’ll need to fill out the line up with shooters. Currently we don’t have that, so they’ll need to be acquired through the draft, free agency, or trades. This route could work, but I’m not convinced it is the best strategy since we are still a long way from being a good team.

 

[EIM86]

Indiana is in full rebuild mode. Unlike the kings, they will find a deal for buddy and it will be a huge reality check to kings fans just how inept this organization is.

Buddy has probably peaked as a player as he in his prime. This year is probably more of an outlier, but I’m glad we moved on from him. Vivek thinking he was the next Curry was hilarious.

 

[EIM86]

I have no issue with acquiring Sabonis. He’s 25 years old and has two all star appearances to his name. However, his game is flawed because he doesn’t block shots and he isn’t an accurate three point shooter. So either we need to find ourselves a shot blocking, floor spacing 4/5 or we play with two non-shooters in the front court. Time is on Sabonis’ side to develop a consistent three point shot. It wasn’t until Vucevic’s last seasons in Orlando that he started to shoot treys; and the same for Millsap, he didn’t shoot treys until he joined Atlanta. So Sabonis could develop that part of his game, but it’s by no means a guarantee.

If the aim is to build around Fox and Sabonis, two inconsistent outside shooters, then we’ll need to fill out the line up with shooters. Currently we don’t have that, so they’ll need to be acquired through the draft, free agency, or trades. This route could work, but I’m not convinced it is the best strategy since we are still a long way from being a good team.

Barnes and Holidays are good outside shooters. Lamb was also at 40% last year, having a down year this season though. Mitchell also 37.7% last 10 games. It’s not like we are outright terrible from the 3, on Paper

 

[Tetsujin]

Barnes and Holidays are good outside shooters. Lamb was also at 40% last year, having a down year this season though. Mitchell also 37.7% last 10 games. It’s not like we are outright terrible from the 3, on Paper

Holliday shooting the 3 better than Buddy this season.

 

[Chupacabra]

Oh, I get the apprehension. He's a throwback big man, and not an elite rim protector. He's not a terrible defender, he is the only player on the Pacers that is a plus on offense and defense, according to 538's RAPTOR. If Monte can trade for a more nimble-footed partner for him, then our interior will be fine.

Sabonis is not a great 3-point shooter, but he does have a good elbow jumper, and is in the top 20 for player efficiency, something I feel is being overlooked. He is being this efficient, on a team, that is one of the worst in the NBA in 3-point shooting, bottom 5 bad. Sabonis is a more fleet of foot Cousins with insane efficiency. I know he will become a fan favorite quite quickly.

I will miss Haliburton a lot, but I am excited to see Sabonis. It's insane that Monte was able to get this done without giving up any draft capital.

I think the idea is that Haliburton was the draft capital here. He isn't done with his 2nd year and Indiana knows what they're getting, as opposed to a pick.

 

[hrdboild]

Guess you're not expecting Sabonis to make the all Star team next year either lol

All criteria apply only at the time of the trade so he's free to keep making All Star teams now without losing his (imaginary) superman bird rights.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I always thought Sabonis would be a nice addition to the team. But it’s sad that it took a Hali, who just came out of a franchise record for youngest with 17 assist game, to get Sabonis her.
Oh well, maybe Monte does love bully ball. So it’s probably Swag time.

 

[SacTownKid]

I have no issue with acquiring Sabonis. He’s 25 years old and has two all star appearances to his name. However, his game is flawed because he doesn’t block shots and he isn’t an accurate three point shooter. So either we need to find ourselves a shot blocking, floor spacing 4/5 or we play with two non-shooters in the front court. Time is on Sabonis’ side to develop a consistent three point shot. It wasn’t until Vucevic’s last seasons in Orlando that he started to shoot treys; and the same for Millsap, he didn’t shoot treys until he joined Atlanta. So Sabonis could develop that part of his game, but it’s by no means a guarantee.

If the aim is to build around Fox and Sabonis, two inconsistent outside shooters, then we’ll need to fill out the line up with shooters. Currently we don’t have that, so they’ll need to be acquired through the draft, free agency, or trades. This route could work, but I’m not convinced it is the best strategy since we are still a long way from being a good team.

My opinion is don't let the mistakes of Indy continue. Do what they should have done, put Sabonis at C and surround him with versatile length and skill. Barnes and Grant would be a nice compliment to him.

 

[Joshoua]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1491178335120293891

20/12/6 are elite number it’s why I think we should be building around Sabonis those numbers are on par with his all star year

 

[serbiangoat]

My opinion is don't let the mistakes of Indy continue. Do what they should have done, put Sabonis at C and surround him with versatile length and skill. Barnes and Grant would be a nice compliment to him.

I agree Sabonis is a smaller skilled center stop trying to make him a PF. Unless there's a young Ibaka out there I say just get the best 3/4 the Kings can find (not Barnes long term) and play them together. Sabonis has shown he can be a really good #2 behind prime Victor Olidipo not so much a #1 option it's on Fox to be a legit #1 to make it work.

Is the Morris brother who didn't get dropped by Jokic available in trade talks? Have him and Barnes at the 3/4.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Maybe Monte wants it like Cleveland with 3 bigs up front. That's why a Randle or Toppin for Barnes is still lingering.
So starting lineup would be like Sabonis, Bagley, Randle, Fox, and Davion.

 

[Joshoua]

Maybe Monte wants it like Cleveland with 3 bigs up front. That's why a Randle or Toppin for Barnes is still lingering.
So starting lineup would be like Sabonis, Bagley, Randle, Fox, and Davion.

Our best shooter would be Davion come on man.. whose playing SF we’d be bad on defense and offense

I agree Sabonis is a smaller skilled center stop trying to make him a PF. Unless there's a young Ibaka out there I say just get the best 3/4 the Kings can find (not Barnes long term) and play them together. Sabonis has shown he can be a really good #2 behind prime Victor Olidipo not so much a #1 option it's on Fox to be a legit #1 to make it work.

Is the Morris brother who didn't get dropped by Jokic available in trade talks? Have him and Barnes at the 3/4.

I wouldn’t support the Kings till he left never will I support a team with either Morris twin on them

 

[Geoff]

I was shocked when I saw this news a few hours ago and I've been sitting on it, thinking about it and trying to understand why it was done.

I think I get it now:

This is about maximization of value. Unfortunately, De'Aaron has regressed this year, and it has hurt his trade value.

I bet you Monte's initial offer was De'Aaron and there was no bite.

And unfortunately, with the great play of Davion and Haliburton, that trade value probably wasn't going to get much higher.

Tyrese's trade value, on the other hand, is sky high right now. He has loads of potential and is on a rookie contract, definitely something attractive for the pacers.

I really don't think this is so much the franchise going all in on Fox as it is maximizing trade values.

What is likely to happen now is that Fox is going to blow up and rebuild his trade value.

Now the sitting out makes more sense to me.

Fox was probably sitting out to showcase Haliburton and to actually get his ankle right.

Perhaps Monte also saw something during this time that made him want to pull the trigger not sure.


So all in all what is probably going to happen now is that the Kings are going to shoot for the play-in and Fox's value will increase.

Then as far as what will happen in the off-season is fair game. Could be that Fox is traded for a top pick or another player that fits the team more, you never know.

I really loved Hali and I think we all did that's why it feels like such a gut punch to us. He was really a great personality and competitor.

I also think what this means is that Barnes and/or Holmes will be gone by the trade deadline, so long as they get a piece that fits the team more. Holmes and Barnes value are likely pretty high right now, especially Barnes perhaps also due to the sitting out of De'Aaron.

This is a great analysis. We can only hope that it was true (offering Fox but no interest). Time will tell if this was the right move.

 

[serbiangoat]

Keep Holmes now he's a excellent back up 5, no reason to trade one of the best back ups in the NBA imo. Sabonis/Holmes is 48 minutes of (small) energy and toughness.

 

[krylia sovetov]

My wallet says I am. I'm not season ticket holder, I've averaged probably around $3k to $5k the last few years on going to games. I'm not spending another dime on this team until the Monte stank is gone.

it's vivek to blame

at some point i believe his hands are tied. i wouldn't fire monte just for the sake of drafting.
our GM should in first place a good talent evaluator.
if his trades turn out do be disaster, ok let's keep him till 2023 draft.

but don't forget vivek is saving money on every step. we entered in this season with walton because of money saving. we put assistant coach in charge because of money saving.
we took monte as our GM at a low salary because of the money saving. so we will stick with monte for time being...

also, can anybody count all NBA cash considerations that occured in last 5 years? on all occasions, draft, trades, whenever they're possible?
something tells me we're absolute number 1

 

[Mike]

Maybe Monte wants it like Cleveland with 3 bigs up front. That's why a Randle or Toppin for Barnes is still lingering.
So starting lineup would be like Sabonis, Bagley, Randle, Fox, and Davion.

Jarrett Allen is a good shot blocker and rebounder, and at times with Brooklyn showed he could shoot the ball. Evan Mobley is a good shot blocker and rebounder, with the ability to stretch the floor, but for whatever reason his treys aren’t falling consistently at the minute. Lauri Markenan is a good three point shooter and same goes for Kevin Love when he goes on court.

Difference with that potential trio for us is there isn’t a natural shot blocker amongst them and none of them are consistent three point shooters, they are all inconsistent. I guess age is on their side to develop a consistent shot, but I don’t think they would work as a trio. I’d certainly not want to pair Sabonis and Randle because of the similar ways they score. It would be like the Monroe and Drummond partnership all over again in Detroit.

 

[NewArena]

Garbage trade, garbage org.

4-5 seed my @$$. What a joke. More like 4th or 5th pick in every upcoming draft. Then miss on the draft pick or trade the player for garbage like they did today.

The KINGS under Vivek are a pyramid scheme with no return on investment in sight.

Have fun supporting this nonsense and living in fantasyland.

BYE!

 

[NewArena]

Indiana is in full rebuild mode. Unlike the kings, they will find a deal for buddy and it will be a huge reality check to kings fans just how inept this organization is.

lmao i highly doubt it

 

[Mike]

This is a great analysis. We can only hope that it was true (offering Fox but no interest). Time will tell if this was the right move.

There probably isn’t a huge demand for a point guard that is an inefficient scorer and below average defender. I don’t discount his talent and near all star capabilities when he’s in form, but increasingly I see Fox more like Monta Ellis than all star.

 

[funkykingston]

There probably isn’t a huge demand for a point guard that is an inefficient scorer and below average defender. I don’t discount his talent and near all star capabilities when he’s in form, but increasingly I see Fox more like Monta Ellis than all star.

Fox's contract is also a big part of how teams will value him. Personally I think Haliburton is the better player full stop, but others could argue that in a vacuum Fox is the better of the two. But when you consider that Tyrese will be making $4.2M and $5.8M over the next two seasons while Fox will make $30.3M and $32.6M, that's a huge difference.

It affects not only your future cap flexibility but also the amount of salary you have to send back in a trade to get him.

Over the next two seasons Fox will cost about $5.6M and $8.3M more than Buddy and Tyrese combined.

Fox regressing is a huge deal, especially when he's now very overpaid relative to his production/impact.

 

[kb02]

Fox's contract is also a big part of how teams will value him. Personally I think Haliburton is the better player full stop, but others could argue that in a vacuum Fox is the better of the two. But when you consider that Tyrese will be making $4.2M and $5.8M over the next two seasons while Fox will make $30.3M and $32.6M, that's a huge difference.

It affects not only your future cap flexibility but also the amount of salary you have to send back in a trade to get him.

Over the next two seasons Fox will cost about $5.6M and $8.3M more than Buddy and Tyrese combined.

Fox regressing is a huge deal, especially when he's now very overpaid relative to his production/impact.

Becoming pretty obvious that Monte would've traded Fox first, but because of his regression and contract, Fox simply wasn't valued by the rest of the league.

 

[Livinthedream]

Becoming pretty obvious that Monte would've traded Fox first, but because of his regression and contract, Fox simply wasn't valued by the rest of the league.

That and the fact you have to build around Fox to get the most out of him. Haliburton can play with anyone.

 

[kb02]

it's vivek to blame

at some point i believe his hands are tied. i wouldn't fire monte just for the sake of drafting.
our GM should in first place a good talent evaluator.
if his trades turn out do be disaster, ok let's keep him till 2023 draft.

but don't forget vivek is saving money on every step. we entered in this season with walton because of money saving. we put assistant coach in charge because of money saving.
we took monte as our GM at a low salary because of the money saving. so we will stick with monte for time being...

also, can anybody count all NBA cash considerations that occured in last 5 years? on all occasions, draft, trades, whenever they're possible?
something tells me we're absolute number 1

At the end of the day, it falls on Vivek. This team is bleeding money and needs a winner. I get it from a business perspective; however, Monte doesn't get a pass for failing to execute in the right window. Had he decided to break up the Hali and Fox back court last off season, the return would've been significantly better. Now he's stuck with Fox until probably, at the earliest, this off season. If Fox doesn't fit with Sabonis, dude is getting traded this off season. Hopefully, Fox will be able to recover some value by then. And recovering value isn't improving his raw numbers. He'll do that. It's improving his 3 point efficiency, bringing others into the game, and playing less selfishly. I didn't see any skip passes from Fox last night, he was guilty of being a black hole (the best example was that late pass to Mitchell on the break; Hali would've passed ahead to Mitchell, who would've passed back to Hali for an easy layup), he started playing bully ball in the 2h going 1 vs 5 three times (missing on 2/3), and Mitchell and Fox were guilty of my turn, your turn ball handling (they need to connect).

Ultimately, the best outcome from this trade is Sabonis is the new cornerstone. Not Fox. Easier to trade someone, who isn't your cornerstone.

 

[twslam07]

Really sad to see Halliburton go and really sad to see there not being an emphasis on the defensive side of the ball. We’ve basically been in the bottom 3rd of the league on defense 16 years straight.

Sabonis is good and young but difficult to build around. Fox is good and young but difficult to build around. Fox and Sabonis are both not particularly good defenders. McNair has his work cut out for him to say the least.

On a somewhat side note, it’s obvious that we’re willing to sell off youth, assets, etc. to try and win now. But if that’s the case, why is Barnes talked about so much in trade talks? He seems like someone McNair would want to keep to try and help them win now. You have to ask the question…if I’m trading Barnes, who am I getting back at SF/PF? There doesn’t seem to be a lot out there that makes sense.

I think most everyone on this site knows I’d like to see a Holmes for PJ Washington/Ish Smith and that trade makes even more sense with Sabonis at C considering Washington is a solid defender, weak side shot blocker, shooter, and passer. That leaves you with a Mitchell-Fox-Barnes-Washington-Sabonis starting lineup. Not horrible but still too many defensive holes for my liking which got me thinking of a way to move Barnes while trying to…

• Not hurt our win now chances this year
• Improve the defense
• Improve the rim protection
• Improve the future of the team

…and I landed on this trade:

MEM Gets: Harrison Barnes
MEM Gives: Kyle Anderson & Ziaire Williams
Why for MEM? Consolidate some of their rotation pieces for a piece who can help them more with their playoff push.

SAC Gets: Kyle Anderson & Ziaire Williams
SAC Gives: Harrison Barnes
Why for SAC? Anderson gives us a stop gap SF/PF this year to keep our win now chances alive. Also get Ziaire to give us another young asset to add to our long term core.



PG - Mitchell / Smith
SG - Fox / Holiday / Lamb / Ramsey / Davis
SF - Anderson / Williams / Woodard
PF - Washington / Harkless / Bagley / Metu
C - Sabonis / Jones / Len


Anderson and Washington are a significant upgrade defensively over Barnes and Bagley and they’re both much better rim protectors to help cover for Sabonis. The passing and playmaking also sees a huge upgrade. All 5 starters would be able to make somewhat complex reads and find the open man. Shooting could be the biggest question mark among this group as we’d be going from Fox-Haliburton-Barnes-Bagley-Holmes to Mitchell-Fox-Anderson-Washington-Sabonis. Washington is shooting 39% from 3, Anderson 35% from 3 (47% from corner 3), Sabonis 32% from 3, and Mitchell has been shooting 35% from 3 since Dec 1st. It’s not going to be elite but the fact that’d we at least have 5 guys that are capable of knocking down 3s may open up the floor a bit more.

Then going into the 2022 off-season, we’d have the following players under contract:


PG - Mitchell
SG - Fox / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Williams / Holiday / Woodard
PF - Washington / Harkless / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len
2022 Picks - SAC 1st / SAC 2nd / CHI 2nd

If we keep our cap sheet clean, this also leaves us about ~$50 mil in cap space during the 2023 off-season with Fox, Sabonis, Washington (cap hold), Mitchell, Williams, Woodard, 2022 SAC 1st, and 2023 SAC 1st. If that bunch of youngsters looks promising, who knows? Maybe we can bring a substantial free agent to boost us even more.

Moving Hield’s salary was an under the radar move that’s not going to get attention from casual fans but it makes our cap sheet extremely clean and flexible for that 2023 off-season while having all of our major assets still locked up.

I guess another possible trade is...

MIN Gets: Harrison Barnes
SAC Gets: Malik Beasley & Jaden McDaniels

Beasley's salary for the 2023-24 season is unguaranteed which lines up with the rest of our contracts that will expire and McDaniels is a young, solid fit next to McDaniels at SF/PF with his defense, rim protection, & shooting. In the meantime, we have Holiday & Beasley to be our stop gap SFs to align with McNair's desire to win now.

 

[Dongoodboy]

I guess another possible trade is...

MIN Gets: Harrison Barnes
SAC Gets: Malik Beasley & Jaden McDaniels

Beasley's salary for the 2023-24 season is unguaranteed which lines up with the rest of our contracts that will expire and McDaniels is a young, solid fit next to McDaniels at SF/PF with his defense, rim protection, & shooting. In the meantime, we have Holiday & Beasley to be our stop gap SFs to align with McNair's desire to win now.

No way Wolves agree to this.

 

[reptilexcq2]

Kings owner is a problem. No way they consent this trade unless the owner is involved. What have Vivek done to make this team better? They should just trade Buddy, Bagley and some others only.

 

[twslam07]

No way Wolves agree to this.

I actually think it's a little light for the Kings. The trade I posted was just the framework.

 

[Tetsujin]

No way Wolves agree to this.

TWolves have been looking to add size. All the rumors I heard suggest they’d prefer Holmes but Barnes probably isn’t out of the question either.

 

[White_Chocolate]

My brain can rationalize this deal, but it hurts everywhere else. I’m really going to miss Hali. Dude was a winner through and through

 

[twslam07]

TWolves have Ben looking to add size. All the rumors I heard suggest they’d prefer Holmes but Barnes probably isn’t out of the question either.

They are extremely guard heavy with Bevlery (6'1"), Okogie (6'4"), Edwards (6'4), Beasley (6'4"), & Russell (6'5"). They have Vanderbilt as a solid defensive presence next to Towns at PF which should make losing McDaniels a little easier to swallow and then they fill that SF spot with a full sized SF who can add some scoring and space the floor consistently while clearing their log jam at guard/moving a bad contract (Beasley).