Kings trade Richaun Holmes and 24th overall pick to Mavericks for ????

[Section 101]

I love me some Richaun Holmes. Given the revolving door and mediocre play we saw at backup center until Len held it down late last year, amazing to me that Richaun got so little opportunity (though, having just checked his game logs, he appeared in more games than I realized).

In any case, I wish him well - which ain't easy, cuz I don't wish Dallas well.

More revisionist history. After last years eye injury and kid situation Holmes has not been the same player. He never regained his form. I hope he's able to get it back.

 

[Telemachus]

More revisionist history. After last years eye injury and kid situation Holmes has not been the same player. He never regained his form. I hope he's able to get it back.

I think Holmes biggest problem last season was he is primarily a pick and roll player on offense. He should be able to do that with either Kyrie or Doncic. Time will tell.

 

[sactowndog]

The problem here is the assumption we draft those guys if we kept the pick. The only reason they're in our draft slot is because that's who the Mavs wanted.

Like if Monte took Colby at 24 and Omax went 28, does he get blamed if Omax is a star? In that case, shouldn't every GM who passed on Giannis never work again?

the player was there and available. Monte could have (and I said at draft time in both cases) and should have kept both.

I know you have bemoaned Vlade passing on Anunoby multiple times. I think these may turn out just as bad.

 

[sactowndog]

Given his other big talking point this summer (“there’s no one on this roster to guard 2/3s!”), it’s odd that OMax is his major sticking point, given that, well, he’s probably not going to be guarding many 2/3s in an ideal world.

not sure why you say that as he is almost the ideal physical prototype to do exactly that.

6’7”. 2nd in lane agility drills, 7’ 1” wingspan.

 

[sactowndog]

I think Holmes biggest problem last season was he is primarily a pick and roll player on offense. He should be able to do that with either Kyrie or Doncic. Time will tell.

Right. Holmes biggest issue is he fit well with Hali and horrible with Fox. I think Hali being traded was way more impactful than the eye or domestic issues.

 

[sactowndog]

you better believe I've been looking for a good one with him, haha. We'll see what we can figure out closer to the season.

just so you know I rarely lose my charity bets. Ask @pdxKingsFan ;-)

by the way not saying OMax becomes an all-star as he won’t. But I do think he has a decent chance to be another Anunoby.

 

[Tetsujin]

not sure why you say that as he is almost the ideal physical prototype to do exactly that.

6’7”. 2nd in lane agility drills, 7’ 1” wingspan.

I’m asking you this in all sincerity. Have you ever actually seen OMax play or are you basing your entire argument off his combine measurements?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

just so you know I rarely lose my charity bets. Ask @pdxKingsFan ;-)

I've never made a charity bet, just paid up for a certain multi-time loser.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Right. Holmes biggest issue is he fit well with Hali and horrible with Fox. I think Hali being traded was way more impactful than the eye or domestic issues.

Keeping in mind that Holmes earned the starting job before Haliburton was on the team

 

[pdxKingsFan]

god I hate facts.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

god I hate facts.

Facts are overrated.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Facts are overrated.

Lord knows I ain't afraid to evaluate basketball by vibe.

 

[Section 101]

Right. Holmes biggest issue is he fit well with Hali and horrible with Fox. I think Hali being traded was way more impactful than the eye or domestic issues.

Wrong, he was fine his first year before Hali got here. His stats were pretty close the first 2 years. In fact, his shooting % was higher before Hali.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I count three that are "worth getting excited about", and 3 more that are worth a second contract (including Whiteside who actually took 2-3 teams to develop into worthy of that second contract which was probably his 3rd or 4th. That's less than 50% for a guy that was generally considered a good talent evaluator before the Maloofs got too meddlesome.

I know that some or many disagree, but I've always felt the shift from the Magoofs being "hands off" to "meddlesome" really started to show during the 2005-2006 season and after. That's when the Peja for Artest trade occurred then followed up by not retaining Coach Adelman that following Summer. Those of us that remember that time also remember the relationship between GP and Coach Adelman. There's little to no chance GP wanted to let Adelman go.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't feel like Petrie would have traded Peja away for Artest if not for the Magoofs influence. I've also been staunch in the opinion that Petrie was more likely to draft Steph Curry at #4 in 2009 rather than Tyreke Evans -- who the Magoofs publicly defended at center court with the "it's changing" speech. I was actually quite surprised when Curry wasn't the pick.

Curry's skill set even back then was much more in line with the type of player Petrie coveted (shooting, passing, ball-handling, high BBIQ). Curry appeared to be at least Bibby 2.0. But Evans fit the mold of a larger version of Derrick Rose who'd recently won rookie of the year. I've always felt the Magoofs were overly intrugued with Evans and pressured GP into making that selection. GP is a class guy, so he's never much thrown the owners under the bus and taken responsibility for all basketball operations decisions, but there was a clear shift from Petrie's typical M.O. circa 2006.

And we all know how the Magoofs tenure turned out from 2006 - 2013 from the downturn of recession to eventually trying to move the team before selling it.

 

[Section 101]

I think Holmes biggest problem last season was he is primarily a pick and roll player on offense. He should be able to do that with either Kyrie or Doncic. Time will tell.

And he wasn't even hitting his push shots. He had chances and even had a good game when Sabonis was out. But he couldn't do it consistently.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I know that some or many disagree, but I've always felt the shift from the Magoofs being "hands off" to "meddlesome" really started to show during the 2005-2006 season and after. That's when the Peja for Artest trade occurred then followed up by not retaining Coach Adelman that following Summer. Those of us that remember that time also remember the relationship between GP and Coach Adelman. There's little to no chance GP wanted to let Adelman go.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't feel like Petrie would have traded Peja away for Artest if not for the Magoofs influence. I've also been staunch in the opinion that Petrie was more likely to draft Steph Curry at #4 in 2009 rather than Tyreke Evans -- who the Magoofs publicly defended at center court with the "it's changing" speech. I was actually quite surprised when Curry wasn't the pick.

Curry's skill set even back then was much more in line with the type of player Petrie coveted (shooting, passing, ball-handling, high BBIQ). Curry appeared to be at least Bibby 2.0. But Evans fit the mold of a larger version of Derrick Rose who'd recently won rookie of the year. I've always felt the Magoofs were overly intrugued with Evans and pressured GP into making that selection. GP is a class guy, so he's never much thrown the owners under the bus and taken responsibility for all basketball operations decisions, but there was a clear shift from Petrie's typical M.O. circa 2006.

It's definitely hard to say. Clearly Adelman being let go was all them - I think the coaching carousel that followed was all them - they legitimately thought they could still contend with the husk of the golden era team. That said I wasn't including lotto picks so I think the late 20s and early second round picks were mostly all Petrie. I'm sticking him with Douby too.

 

[sactowndog]

I've never made a charity bet, just paid up for a certain multi-time loser.

my bad. Wrong out of state small state fan. Sorry @iowamcnabb

 

[KingsFanSince85]

It's definitely hard to say. Clearly Adelman being let go was all them - I think the coaching carousel that followed was all them - they legitimately thought they could still contend with the husk of the golden era team. That said I wasn't including lotto picks so I think the late 20s and early second round picks were mostly all Petrie. I'm sticking him with Douby too.

Oh I’m not absolving him of Douby. That actually fit his M.O. anyway, as Quincy was thought of as a sharpshooter and could handle the ball a little bit. He just didn’t develop as hoped. Which seems to happen more than not.

But Peja for Artest didn’t fit the M.O. nor did Tyreke over Steph.

I will say Jimmer fit the M.O., though. He also just didn’t develop as hoped. I mean, even his “elite” shooting never translated as expected. Even though his handles or instincts never became good enough to be a PG, if his shooting would have carried over from college he’d have been useful as a super sub. He just lost confidence and never really got it back.

I still lament GP not carrying over to Vivek and the new ownership, as he essentially told them to strongly consider Giannis. Imagine if that had happened with prime Cousins on the team. Hell, the KINGS conceivably could have drafted Steph, Boogie and Giannis. Imagine that core by 2016, the first season at G1C.

 

[Woot!]

More revisionist history. After last years eye injury and kid situation Holmes has not been the same player. He never regained his form. I hope he's able to get it back.

It's "revisionist history" to say that Holmes got insufficient opportunity to prove that he could be the primary backup behind Sabonis? I think "revisionist history" doesn't mean what you think it means. He certainly didn't look as good last year as he had previously - that much we agree on.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Right. Holmes biggest issue is he fit well with Hali and horrible with Fox. I think Hali being traded was way more impactful than the eye or domestic issues.

Holmes' success was due to Walton deciding to feature him, this predated Haliburton by a year.

 

[Section 101]

It's "revisionist history" to say that Holmes got insufficient opportunity to prove that he could be the primary backup behind Sabonis? I think "revisionist history" doesn't mean what you think it means. He certainly didn't look as good last year as he had previously - that much we agree on.

You earn your opportunities in practice. Clearly the coaching staff saw the samething as everyone else when he got PT. He lost something and we haven't even talked about the defensive end.

 

[kingsfan101]

Here's a handy list of notable picks the Kings made outside the lotto in the Petrie era as we try to evaluate where picks in the 20s and early second round ultimately play out:
2001 25 Gerald Wallace
2002 28 Dan Dickau
2004 26 Kevin Martin
2005 23 Francisco Garcia
2006 19 Quincy Douby
2008 42 Sean Singletary
2008 43 Patrick Ewing Jr.
2009 23 Omri Casspi
2010 33 Hassan Whiteside
2011 35 Tyler Honeycutt
2011 60 Isaiah Thomas
2012 36 Orlando Johnson
2013 36 Ray McCallum Jr.


I count three that are "worth getting excited about", and 3 more that are worth a second contract (including Whiteside who actually took 2-3 teams to develop into worthy of that second contract which was probably his 3rd or 4th. That's less than 50% for a guy that was generally considered a good talent evaluator before the Maloofs got too meddlesome.

I've been making this point for a while, but a lot of that success came when we had RA as the coach.

Once RA left, even our lottery picks were mostly duds. Some of it might be luck, but it can't all be luck.

So, while I give a lot of credit to Geoff, I think he owes some of it to coach.