Kingster
Hall of Famer
How do you like it? Rare, medium, or well done?
KINGS! Summer League in Vegas! GM 1 7/7/17
- Thread starter New Era
- Start date
How do you like it? Rare, medium, or well done?
steelevt
All-Star
I step away from the board for an hour and when I come back, I see a poster calling out a couple others talking smack about PapaG, implying they don't know what they're talking about. Then go on and read 7 pages of the rest of the board talking smack lol. No one is saying he's garbage, he's just having a bad game and not showing much improvement compared to others. He's being outplayed by Jack f'n Cooley. Everyone can see it. No one is saying cut him but if someone is playing bad and 99% of the board can see it, they will post about it.
Ps. I think that fox kid is a keeper
Ps. I think that fox kid is a keeper
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Papa is still 20 and has a lot to work with. I think he will be solid..
I think I'm most concerned about Malachi. Just taking ISO contested stuff..
I think I'm most concerned about Malachi. Just taking ISO contested stuff..
jcassio
Starter
Fox: awesome for 1st game
Jackson: surprisingly impressive
Malachi: didn't show a lot tonight, other than good defense & 1 beautiful three
Hield: hero ball, and not hitting his shots; still, biggest weakness is ball-handling
Skal: ok, but out of rhythm
Papa: really out of rhythm; if he had a normal size neck, he'd be 6'9
Cooley: looks/plays like David Lee, but without the shot
Jackson: surprisingly impressive
Malachi: didn't show a lot tonight, other than good defense & 1 beautiful three
Hield: hero ball, and not hitting his shots; still, biggest weakness is ball-handling
Skal: ok, but out of rhythm
Papa: really out of rhythm; if he had a normal size neck, he'd be 6'9
Cooley: looks/plays like David Lee, but without the shot
First impressions...
Couldn't be happier about how Fox is playing, that's my dude. He's showing the same intensity on defense I've come to expect. We're not going to see 4 steals per game against NBA competition but I would get in his ear early about being the second PG to ever win a DPOY award because I think he could get there if he wants it bad enough. Nice to see those midrange step backs going down too. Best player on the floor tonight.
Frank Mason doesn't look comfortable out there. He's playing too fast and strong arming his shot attempts. I like him as a compliment to Fox because he can play off the ball and knock down shots but he's got to slow down and let the game come to him more.
Malachi Richardson is having trouble getting good looks. Some of that is the spacing in Summer League but he's fallen into his Syracuse chucker mode here tonight. I'd like to see him do more than just throw up jumpers.
Marquese Chriss had a nice game. He got into it with Fox and Papagiannis a bit early but I think he's always going to play with a chip on his shoulder against us because we traded him on draft night. When he's aggressive he's a difference maker out there and he think he was the second best player on the court tonight. I'm back to kinda wishing we hadn't made that trade actually. There were only 2 players tonight that looked the part of high level NBA starters and he was one of them. We still could have picked up Skal with the Charlotte pick.
Justin Jackson had a very nice game. I knew he could score but he was also making some nice reads on defense and looking like a savvy veteran in this setting. He's got length and touch on his jumper and could be a solid rotation guy down the line.
Papagiannis... Oh Papagiannis. Bringing the attitude wherever he goes and its starting to get old. We just traded or last Center because he couldn't stop picking fights with everyone and everyone else on the team seems to have gotten the message. Strong work on the boards and he was able to consistently get good position down low but he was clanking everything off the rim and as the game sped up he kept slowing down and couldn't keep up anymore. As a developmental project we could certainly do worse. Everybody needs an enforcer at some point but I wish he would concentrate a little more on his moves and stop worrying about what the other team is doing.
Buddy was scoring but he never left his mark on the game as you would expect him to the way he closed out the season. A little too trigger happy for my liking, he missed all 6 of his threes and looked like he was shooting them a little off balance. The pump fake, two dribble, pull up move is looking like it'll always be there for him though which is a good sign. Shaking off the rust here, hopefully he'll have a better game next time.
Skal is the same tantalizing package of potential wrapped in inexperience that we've come to know and love. I still love his back to the basket game. He uses those long limbs to generate surprising leverage given his skinny frame and he's able to bulldoze his way into good looks even if he missed a few chippies today. This guy is going to be a handful when he gets stronger and more confident and he's already building some nice chemistry with De'Aaron Fox.
Josh Jackson is going to be a stud. He hasn't shown yet that he can take over a game but there are flashes of All NBA potential in his game... the ball skills and body control he uses on his drives are both special. This is what he did all year at Kansas. Just when you start to forget he's there he makes a big play to keep his team ahead. If Phoenix keeps Bledsoe that's a perfect situation for him. He can be the third banana next to Bledsoe and Booker and just pick his spots when to attack. If Chriss plays this well during the regular season to they could have a decent team in Phoenix this year. They won't be a pushover.
Dragan Bender showed the long range touch that made him a top 5 pick but not much else. Still, a 7 footer who can space the floor is going to get playing time eventually. Tough to say who won this latest installment of the Georgios-Dragan grudge match. Both guys still look like career backups at this point.
And lastly, playing the role of savvy veteran for Phoenix's Summer League squad was Davon Reed, a second round pick this year after 4 years at Miami who just inked a rare 4 year deal for a second rounder. That's already looking like a smart move for Phoenix's front office. A little more three than D in his game at this point but he knows how to play which is sometimes all it takes to seperate yourself from the "high upside" crowd that dominates the first half of the draft every year. He looks like a guy to watch for this season.
All in all I was pretty happy with our team's performance. Fox was worth the price of admission and the rest will improve as they get used to playing together. Start the clock for when we'll get our first Harry Giles sighting. Losing our first Summer League game with 3/5ths of our starting lineup on the floor could be seen as a disappointment but Phoenix's team is also stacked with lottery talent and it's more about the "how" than the "what" of it in this context. A bit of a mixed bag overall with plenty of kinks to work out but it's hard not to be excited about seeing Fox in a Kings uniform for many more years to come. Damn that kid is fast!
Couldn't be happier about how Fox is playing, that's my dude. He's showing the same intensity on defense I've come to expect. We're not going to see 4 steals per game against NBA competition but I would get in his ear early about being the second PG to ever win a DPOY award because I think he could get there if he wants it bad enough. Nice to see those midrange step backs going down too. Best player on the floor tonight.
Frank Mason doesn't look comfortable out there. He's playing too fast and strong arming his shot attempts. I like him as a compliment to Fox because he can play off the ball and knock down shots but he's got to slow down and let the game come to him more.
Malachi Richardson is having trouble getting good looks. Some of that is the spacing in Summer League but he's fallen into his Syracuse chucker mode here tonight. I'd like to see him do more than just throw up jumpers.
Marquese Chriss had a nice game. He got into it with Fox and Papagiannis a bit early but I think he's always going to play with a chip on his shoulder against us because we traded him on draft night. When he's aggressive he's a difference maker out there and he think he was the second best player on the court tonight. I'm back to kinda wishing we hadn't made that trade actually. There were only 2 players tonight that looked the part of high level NBA starters and he was one of them. We still could have picked up Skal with the Charlotte pick.
Justin Jackson had a very nice game. I knew he could score but he was also making some nice reads on defense and looking like a savvy veteran in this setting. He's got length and touch on his jumper and could be a solid rotation guy down the line.
Papagiannis... Oh Papagiannis. Bringing the attitude wherever he goes and its starting to get old. We just traded or last Center because he couldn't stop picking fights with everyone and everyone else on the team seems to have gotten the message. Strong work on the boards and he was able to consistently get good position down low but he was clanking everything off the rim and as the game sped up he kept slowing down and couldn't keep up anymore. As a developmental project we could certainly do worse. Everybody needs an enforcer at some point but I wish he would concentrate a little more on his moves and stop worrying about what the other team is doing.
Buddy was scoring but he never left his mark on the game as you would expect him to the way he closed out the season. A little too trigger happy for my liking, he missed all 6 of his threes and looked like he was shooting them a little off balance. The pump fake, two dribble, pull up move is looking like it'll always be there for him though which is a good sign. Shaking off the rust here, hopefully he'll have a better game next time.
Skal is the same tantalizing package of potential wrapped in inexperience that we've come to know and love. I still love his back to the basket game. He uses those long limbs to generate surprising leverage given his skinny frame and he's able to bulldoze his way into good looks even if he missed a few chippies today. This guy is going to be a handful when he gets stronger and more confident and he's already building some nice chemistry with De'Aaron Fox.
Josh Jackson is going to be a stud. He hasn't shown yet that he can take over a game but there are flashes of All NBA potential in his game... the ball skills and body control he uses on his drives are both special. This is what he did all year at Kansas. Just when you start to forget he's there he makes a big play to keep his team ahead. If Phoenix keeps Bledsoe that's a perfect situation for him. He can be the third banana next to Bledsoe and Booker and just pick his spots when to attack. If Chriss plays this well during the regular season to they could have a decent team in Phoenix this year. They won't be a pushover.
Dragan Bender showed the long range touch that made him a top 5 pick but not much else. Still, a 7 footer who can space the floor is going to get playing time eventually. Tough to say who won this latest installment of the Georgios-Dragan grudge match. Both guys still look like career backups at this point.
And lastly, playing the role of savvy veteran for Phoenix's Summer League squad was Davon Reed, a second round pick this year after 4 years at Miami who just inked a rare 4 year deal for a second rounder. That's already looking like a smart move for Phoenix's front office. A little more three than D in his game at this point but he knows how to play which is sometimes all it takes to seperate yourself from the "high upside" crowd that dominates the first half of the draft every year. He looks like a guy to watch for this season.
All in all I was pretty happy with our team's performance. Fox was worth the price of admission and the rest will improve as they get used to playing together. Start the clock for when we'll get our first Harry Giles sighting. Losing our first Summer League game with 3/5ths of our starting lineup on the floor could be seen as a disappointment but Phoenix's team is also stacked with lottery talent and it's more about the "how" than the "what" of it in this context. A bit of a mixed bag overall with plenty of kinks to work out but it's hard not to be excited about seeing Fox in a Kings uniform for many more years to come. Damn that kid is fast!
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kingjatt
Starter
Noticed that Fox is an absolute stud and competitor. Its early but we may have our superstar, he clearly was the best player on the court tonight.
Justin Jackson has great instincts offensively, he did get pushed around defensively a little bit.
There no true 3 on this team and the 2s are forced out of position to try to guard guys who are clearly stronger.
Papa was bad but it helped watching the #8 pick be even worse.
Justin Jackson has great instincts offensively, he did get pushed around defensively a little bit.
There no true 3 on this team and the 2s are forced out of position to try to guard guys who are clearly stronger.
Papa was bad but it helped watching the #8 pick be even worse.
roasthawg
Starter
Great post, agree with it all. I also found myself regretting the Chriss trade all of a sudden. He can't shoot but he's a beast. Pappa and Malachi looked worthless. Skal is more skilled than Chriss but no where near as physical.
Fox was the story though. The John Wall comparisons look legit. This kid could be a franchise changing talent. I'm all in on him. Very exciting.
Entity
Hall of Famer
No we had exactly one player that played tonight that doesn't have a contract. You said he thrived last season which I thought was a joke. He had 14 points in spoon feed garbage game.
He will be filed away with jimmer, trob, I doubt he gets to bmac level. Once rookie contract is up he is off to Greece
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Precisely. For all we know, the coaching staff didn't draw up any sets for him in the first game and might in the next one.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Lol... I can't disagree with this post any harder if I tried! Giving up on a 20 year old center following a bad SL game? Give me a break!
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
You say that as if you were not aware of his game before he was drafted. Malachi played purely iso ball at Syracuse and was completely hit or miss. What I saw tonight from him was what I saw at Syracuse that made me disappointed when we drafted him. I don't think he is going to be a good NBA player. Hope he proves me wrong.
parker
Bench
Don't forget that Bogdan was also part of the trade and we haven't seen him yet.
I don't know what you were watching, but I was really impressed with Chriss in this game. He's got some sloppiness and his enthusiasm still gets the better of him at times but he's best when he plays with a bit of an edge and I didn't see that from him very much during his rookie season. You could point to the shooting percentages and the turnovers and say he was hurting his team but I think he's the guy who willed them to the win. The box score says he had one block but I saw at least 3. More than anything else what separates the great players from the good ones is that the great ones know they're good enough to win and they find a way to make it happen, whether that means forcing shots into the defense and getting to the line (he took 13 foul shots against us), erasing a sure-thing layup with a chase down block, getting in guys faces and letting them know that you won't back down, or all of the above. He was the one guy on that Phoenix squad that brought the energy, intensity, and swagger all game long and there's no better sign of that then the other team's fans taking potshots at him on the message board.
But be honest, you would all love him for that if he were on our team. He'll be a fan favorite in Phoenix and also the player most likely to generate "I really don't like that guy" quotes in every opposing team's arena he plays in. Every team needs a guy like that!
sterö
Bench
My thoughts: The rookies clearly outplayed the sophomores.
Overall, very good game by Fox and Jackson. Fox already seems to make the players around him better, which is a great sign. Mason didn't have his best game, but I think he'll be fine.
What's concerning is the play of Buddy Hield, Papa G, Skal, and Malachi. Buddy 0/6 from 3pt land, including two wide open 3s that would have brought us back late. Papa G has to spend the majority of this year in Reno, no way is he ready to play against the big boys. And Skal looked very insecure on offense. Not taking wide open jumpers, just to dribble into a more difficult shots. And 1 rebound in 28 minutes is not terrible. Finally, Malachi's shot selection has to improve drastically. And, I just don't see him getting many minutes at SF.
In grades that would be:
Fox - A-
Jackson - A-
Cooley - C+ (for the hustle)
Skal - C+
Mason - C
Buddy - C-
Malachi - D+
Papa G - D
Overall, very good game by Fox and Jackson. Fox already seems to make the players around him better, which is a great sign. Mason didn't have his best game, but I think he'll be fine.
What's concerning is the play of Buddy Hield, Papa G, Skal, and Malachi. Buddy 0/6 from 3pt land, including two wide open 3s that would have brought us back late. Papa G has to spend the majority of this year in Reno, no way is he ready to play against the big boys. And Skal looked very insecure on offense. Not taking wide open jumpers, just to dribble into a more difficult shots. And 1 rebound in 28 minutes is not terrible. Finally, Malachi's shot selection has to improve drastically. And, I just don't see him getting many minutes at SF.
In grades that would be:
Fox - A-
Jackson - A-
Cooley - C+ (for the hustle)
Skal - C+
Mason - C
Buddy - C-
Malachi - D+
Papa G - D
Papagiannis, Skal, and Mason were horrible.
Papagiannis: Offered almost nothing on the floor aside from fouls. He has 3 inches and over 30+lbs on Marquese Chriss, but had extreme troubles backing him down on offense. He reminded me of 2016 SL Papa. Nothing was good from him today. Fumbled almost all of his passes. Unnecessarily puts the ball on the floor when wide open under the rim. Ended up with 11 rebs, but a few of them just fell to him. Poor showing by Papa.
Skal: Dude ended up with 1 reb in 28minutes of play. Extremely soft today and showed his inexperience. On offense, he passed up open mid-range shots for a few contested ones. Got lost many times in offensive sets(he even bumped into our own PnR screener). On defense, he was worse. Not much to rave about. Can't decide who was worse, Skal or Papa.
Mason: Looked extremely uncomfortable. Came out of the gates chucking up shots, but after missing, he slowed it down. However, he was a non-factor in the game. His ball handling and quickness was lacking against the SL talent. Looked more like a SG who can handle the ball. When Fox was out of the game, it was clear that we didn't have a PG on the floor. I'll give him slack since it was his 1st game, but he's one of our older "young" players on the team.
I expect Skal and Mason to have bounce-back games though. However, as for Papa, I think it's clear he'll be spending a lot of next season in the GLeague. Yes it's just 1 SL game, but he's clearly not ready for the NBA yet. Still not too sure what Vlade saw in Papa. Even at 20yearsold, if Papa was an undrafted free agent, I doubt anyone would expect him to get a training camp invite... Dude needs to step up his game big time. He was a net negative on both ends.
Papagiannis: Offered almost nothing on the floor aside from fouls. He has 3 inches and over 30+lbs on Marquese Chriss, but had extreme troubles backing him down on offense. He reminded me of 2016 SL Papa. Nothing was good from him today. Fumbled almost all of his passes. Unnecessarily puts the ball on the floor when wide open under the rim. Ended up with 11 rebs, but a few of them just fell to him. Poor showing by Papa.
Skal: Dude ended up with 1 reb in 28minutes of play. Extremely soft today and showed his inexperience. On offense, he passed up open mid-range shots for a few contested ones. Got lost many times in offensive sets(he even bumped into our own PnR screener). On defense, he was worse. Not much to rave about. Can't decide who was worse, Skal or Papa.
Mason: Looked extremely uncomfortable. Came out of the gates chucking up shots, but after missing, he slowed it down. However, he was a non-factor in the game. His ball handling and quickness was lacking against the SL talent. Looked more like a SG who can handle the ball. When Fox was out of the game, it was clear that we didn't have a PG on the floor. I'll give him slack since it was his 1st game, but he's one of our older "young" players on the team.
I expect Skal and Mason to have bounce-back games though. However, as for Papa, I think it's clear he'll be spending a lot of next season in the GLeague. Yes it's just 1 SL game, but he's clearly not ready for the NBA yet. Still not too sure what Vlade saw in Papa. Even at 20yearsold, if Papa was an undrafted free agent, I doubt anyone would expect him to get a training camp invite... Dude needs to step up his game big time. He was a net negative on both ends.
Kings_of_California
Starter
My thoughts on each young player -
Fox: Incredibly fast. Needs to polish a few things but looks to have superstar potential.
Mason: Had trouble finishing, but I'm not concerned. I think he will compose himself.
Jackson: Very thin, but looked solid. Not sure he can provide much besides scoring.
Papa: His lack of touch is concerning. I know it's SL, but still... he's having trouble with small things.
Richardson: TBH, I never liked him. I hope he pans out but he just looks like a chucker.
Buddy: He missed a lot of shots but it's just one game. He has a sweet stroke, I'm high on him.
Skal: Meh. We've seem him in real games so it's hard to judge the meaning of one SL game.
Excited to see what all of these guys can show moving forward.
Fox: Incredibly fast. Needs to polish a few things but looks to have superstar potential.
Mason: Had trouble finishing, but I'm not concerned. I think he will compose himself.
Jackson: Very thin, but looked solid. Not sure he can provide much besides scoring.
Papa: His lack of touch is concerning. I know it's SL, but still... he's having trouble with small things.
Richardson: TBH, I never liked him. I hope he pans out but he just looks like a chucker.
Buddy: He missed a lot of shots but it's just one game. He has a sweet stroke, I'm high on him.
Skal: Meh. We've seem him in real games so it's hard to judge the meaning of one SL game.
Excited to see what all of these guys can show moving forward.
I've always liked Chriss, but he's seriously giving me Gerald Green vibes. Low IQ, but plays hard. Chriss was really bad imo. He'll miss 2 shots in a row, but come back with a monster highlight dunk. So it's easy to forget the earlier missed shots because he comes back storming. He had the greenest greenlight of any player on that team, and ended up taking around 21shots? Here's his statline: 19pts 9rebs 1blk 1stl 8tos 9pfs on 5-17 FG, 0-4 3pt, 9-13 FT.I don't know what you were watching, but I was really impressed with Chriss in this game. He's got some sloppiness and his enthusiasm still gets the better of him at times but he's best when he plays with a bit of an edge and I didn't see that from him very much during his rookie season. You could point to the shooting percentages and the turnovers and say he was hurting his team but I think he's the guy who willed them to the win. The box score says he had one block but I saw at least 3. More than anything else what separates the great players from the good ones is that the great ones know they're good enough to win and they find a way to make it happen, whether that means forcing shots into the defense and getting to the line (he took 13 foul shots against us), erasing a sure-thing layup with a chase down block, getting in guys faces and letting them know that you won't back down, or all of the above. He was the one guy on that Phoenix squad that brought the energy, intensity, and swagger all game long and there's no better sign of that then the other team's fans taking potshots at him on the message board.
ouch.
His IQ is one of the worst I've seen of any player. I think he has a gigantic potential, but personally, low IQ players are just so hard for me to watch.
My impressions from a somewhat crappy stream...
Summer league, first game, never get your hopes up...
Holy s&%$ this Fox kid is for real.
The rest is about what I expected. But Fox. Damn.
Summer league, first game, never get your hopes up...
Holy s&%$ this Fox kid is for real.
The rest is about what I expected. But Fox. Damn.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Missed the game but watched some Fox highlights.
He looks pretty legit. He gets that shot right and he's unguardable. Nifty passes too. I'm expecting growing pains, but I'm also expecting him to be the real deal in 3 seasons or so. Kid is only 19!
Meanwhile Ball had a garbage debut for The Lakers.... really tickles my schadenfreude!
He looks pretty legit. He gets that shot right and he's unguardable. Nifty passes too. I'm expecting growing pains, but I'm also expecting him to be the real deal in 3 seasons or so. Kid is only 19!
Meanwhile Ball had a garbage debut for The Lakers.... really tickles my schadenfreude!
The Effort Police
Starter
The Kings bigs played bad, and so did the Suns bigs. And looking at another game it seems Thon Maker didn't do too hot either.
There probably is something to this idea that Summer League is not a place where bigs thrive.
There probably is something to this idea that Summer League is not a place where bigs thrive.
Fox being in the vicinity probably.
He was the overall leading scorer for both teams, was giving our bigs (and some of our guards) fits with his defense, and his team won the game. I agree that he was sloppy and followed up great plays with boneheaded ones but a lot of those miscues were more about timing than basketball IQ from what I saw. Which is totally understandable in game 1 of Summer League with so many teammates he's never played with before. And again, who else would you credit as leading Phoenix to the win? Reed and Bender knocked down shots but they weren't really creating anything. Fox was the engine driving our offense and Chriss was the engine driving theirs. I try not to get too complicated with it. Sometimes winning is the ultimate intangible. If you're the best player on the floor for your team that night and your team wins then you had a good game.
