[Game] Kings @ Spurs 11/11/24 5pm PST, 8pm EST

[iowamcnabb]

Digging hard for a positive here but I thought Lyles had his best game of the season. That’s not really saying much but he looked more active tonight, made 2 threes, grabbed some boards and had 2 blocks and a steal. He has said his legs haven’t been there all season,
Hopefully this is the start of him getting going.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Notice I said at what point not start now. But if this team fails to make the play-offs and loses their draft pick I would fire Monte on the spot.

Three point percentage, This Year - Last Year:

Fox: -8.7%
Keegan: -7.9%
Monk: -7.1%
Huerter: -2.1%
Lyles: -14.1%
Ellis: -8.4%
Domas: -0.4%

McDermott: -13.2%
McLaughlin: -18.6%

DeRozan: +6.7%

DeMar is literally the only player on our team who is currently shooting better from three than last year, and he wasn't on our team last year. Yes, let's blame Monte for everybody on our team suddenly being unable to shoot.

 

[The_Jamal]

Three point percentage, This Year - Last Year:

Fox: -8.7%
Keegan: -7.9%
Monk: -7.1%
Huerter: -2.1%
Lyles: -14.1%
Ellis: -8.4%
Domas: -0.4%

McDermott: -13.2%
McLaughlin: -18.6%

DeRozan: +6.7%

DeMar is literally the only player on our team who is currently shooting better from three than last year, and he wasn't on our team last year. Yes, let's blame Monte for everybody on our team suddenly being unable to shoot.

Truly just madness. Have to wonder whoever the shooting coach is and if they made some massive sweeping tweaks to our jumpers.

We've been able to keep pace, which is a damn Christmas miracle in itself. But tonight is the perfect reminder that this thing can crumble quick if these guys don't rebound to their shooting norms.

 

[Remi]

Three point percentage, This Year - Last Year:

Fox: -8.7%
Keegan: -7.9%
Monk: -7.1%
Huerter: -2.1%
Lyles: -14.1%
Ellis: -8.4%
Domas: -0.4%

McDermott: -13.2%
McLaughlin: -18.6%

DeRozan: +6.7%

DeMar is literally the only player on our team who is currently shooting better from three than last year, and he wasn't on our team last year. Yes, let's blame Monte for everybody on our team suddenly being unable to shoot.

Seems team needs badly some only 3s practices to regain shooting ability.

 

[ick300]

Seems team needs badly some only 3s practices to regain shooting ability.

Honesly that is going down since last season as well ...
Only Fox was better last season in compare to the seaoson before , but this year all are just bad ...
Maybe is time to stop pushing for defence and play more attack in trainings
P.S. But after all today was a b2b game which is our weakness in my opinion , epxecially after a OT win in the first game

 

[Caccia]

Just bring TD back on a 10 day. at least he knows the system and can hit shots.

That was my thought exactly, but it is premature. Terence Davis recently signed with the Milwaukee Bucks' G-league team, and technically, he is a free agent with respect to the NBA. Any team can sign him. His Achilles tendon tear was on 4 January, however. He says "this is a very serious injury. I want to be in the best headspace possible and the best shape... I'm right around the corner for a return."

https://behindthebuckpass.com/nba-veteran-comeback-bucks-g-league-injury-update

 

[joemama]

Keegan is fading on shots. He had an open mid-range and still.faded back so far he airballed it. For corner 3s he doesn't fade but still misses frequently.

Huerter is back to one or two hitches mid-shot, so he's officially "back."

Surprisingly Domas 3pt shots were line drives and so are Dougies.

Fox hand makes his shot different nearly each look and Monk is out.

Only 2 I trust to tqke a 3 rn are Jmac and Keon, both reserves and one rarely used.

Trying to outshoot other teams will not work.

 

[GWD]

Three point percentage, This Year - Last Year:

Fox: -8.7%
Keegan: -7.9%
Monk: -7.1%
Huerter: -2.1%
Lyles: -14.1%
Ellis: -8.4%
Domas: -0.4%

McDermott: -13.2%
McLaughlin: -18.6%

DeRozan: +6.7%

DeMar is literally the only player on our team who is currently shooting better from three than last year, and he wasn't on our team last year. Yes, let's blame Monte for everybody on our team suddenly being unable to shoot.

Very interesting development. The players that have been playing the Brown system for a while are under-producing now. One new team member (DeRozan) is flourishing comparatively, while other new players are floundering. It is similar to the situation when Brown was new two seasons ago. Murray, Huerter, Monk, Lyles, and others seemed to excel then. Last season was a bit of a drop-off in shooting and the Kings missed the playoffs. So far this season reflects a further decline, specifically in both three point offense and defense.

Monte is not to blame as Capt. implies. Monte supplies the tools. It is incumbent on the coaching staff, specifically Mike Brown, to productively use those tools and develop a system that maximizes the unique and existing abilities of players. Perhaps the Brown system stales as time evolves could explain the decline in player performance. DeRozan may be the measuring stick to see if that is the case.

 

[ESP47]

Three point percentage, This Year - Last Year:

Fox: -8.7%
Keegan: -7.9%
Monk: -7.1%
Huerter: -2.1%
Lyles: -14.1%
Ellis: -8.4%
Domas: -0.4%

McDermott: -13.2%
McLaughlin: -18.6%

DeRozan: +6.7%

DeMar is literally the only player on our team who is currently shooting better from three than last year, and he wasn't on our team last year. Yes, let's blame Monte for everybody on our team suddenly being unable to shoot.

Reminds me of the Atlanta Braves between last year and this year. DeRozan is the Marcel Ozuna of the team. Literally everyone else, dumpster fire.

 

[ESP47]

Very interesting development. The players that have been playing the Brown system for a while are under-producing now. One new team member (DeRozan) is flourishing comparatively, while other new players are floundering. It is similar to the situation when Brown was new two seasons ago. Murray, Huerter, Monk, Lyles, and others seemed to excel then. Last season was a bit of a drop-off in shooting and the Kings missed the playoffs. So far this season reflects a further decline, specifically in both three point offense and defense.

Monte is not to blame as Capt. implies. Monte supplies the tools. It is incumbent on the coaching staff, specifically Mike Brown, to productively use those tools and develop a system that maximizes the unique and existing abilities of players. Perhaps the Brown system stales as time evolves could explain the decline in player performance. DeRozan may be the measuring stick to see if that is the case.

I'd blame Brown if it was difficult for our guys to get their shots off but they're getting good looks and just bricking nearly all of them. I don't know what else Brown can do.

I will however blame him for our team allowing other teams to get wide open looks from 3 all game. It's why we have the 3rd worst 3pt defense. Constantly crashing down to double team when the situation doesn't call for it or sagging off for no reason is exactly why teams are shooting about 20 wide open practice 3s on us a game.

 

[iowamcnabb]

The West is so stacked it feels like most teams are going to play .500 ball for long stretches and then the ones that will separate will go on 3 or 4 game winning streaks a few times a year. Hopefully that’s us

 

[reptilexcq2]

One thing Mike Brown sucks at is substitution and matching strategy. If the Kings ever lose advantage on the court...it is because Mike Brown is playing at risk. He still preaches about the small lineups that he adopted from Golden State era but this Kings team loses advantages due to lack of length and athleticism. The coach that I am actually impressed with substitution is Jordi Fernandez. I remember one time Brown was ill and Jordi had to take over as coach and I was really impressed with his substitution. He puts the right guy in to offset the other team of any advantage...sort of like a chess match. But Mike Brown like to take risk and like I said, you can't do it with this team due to lack of length and athleticism. Like sometimes, I rather him play Len than Lyle. Putting Lyle at center against someone like Wemba is just stupid.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'd blame Brown if it was difficult for our guys to get their shots off but they're getting good looks and just bricking nearly all of them. I don't know what else Brown can do.

Hey, on the bright side we're finally nailing our free throws!

 

[iowamcnabb]

Any coaches or former players on the forum? Without totally changing the defensive philosophy, is there any smaller tweaks we can try to reduce the amount of open threes while still allowing “no middle”…?

 

[Jones2006]

I gotta admit on a back to back against Wemby I was surprised to not see Len get run. It seems they’re just Willy nilly changing the rotations every few games … and then you wonder why the bench can never find their rhythm / groove. There’s no consistency in the rotations. Lyles played well but he can still get minutes with Len.

I just think guys have to work harder with no Len in there, he’s a safety blanket sort of. Defensively he protects guts who are beat. Even offensively if Fox can’t get separation, just call a Len screen as a last resort. I understand I’m pro - Len, but I just would like the rotations to stay consistent for at least a 6-10 game stretch so we can judge a bit what we’re working with.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Any coaches or former players on the forum? Without totally changing the defensive philosophy, is there any smaller tweaks we can try to reduce the amount of open threes while still allowing “no middle”…?

Couple of quick thoughts:
1) apply on-ball pressure as soon as PG gets past half court. Minnesota does this really well and makes it hard for team to initiate their offense. Now they have the personnel to do that with their long wings. But we often let the other team go unimpeded, allow them to run their base sets without much stress, and get good shots early in the shot clock. The numbers show much higher shooting % with 15+ secs left on shot clock
2) less weakside help on high screens and play under screens more. We like to go over the top on high screens, have a weakside defender help out, who then leaves the person they were guarding wide open
3) related to #2, it feels like Sabonis is being told to not hedge on screens, play off the screener, and protect against a lob. Well would you rather have Booker and Beal shoot wide open 3s, or have Nurkic try and create offense. I would like to see Sabonis switch a bit more, use his body to re-route shooters, and then fall back

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Three point percentage, This Year - Last Year:

Fox: -8.7%
Keegan: -7.9%
Monk: -7.1%
Huerter: -2.1%
Lyles: -14.1%
Ellis: -8.4%
Domas: -0.4%

McDermott: -13.2%
McLaughlin: -18.6%

DeRozan: +6.7%

DeMar is literally the only player on our team who is currently shooting better from three than last year, and he wasn't on our team last year. Yes, let's blame Monte for everybody on our team suddenly being unable to shoot.

I dug into the numbers, and we are simply missing our "open" 3s (which NBA defines as shots with defender 4-6ft away). Get ready for this.... for open 3s, we are averaging a whopping 22.8% (3.1 - 13.6 3pa). Last year, we were averaging 34% for these shots which was about league average. Player-wise for these shots, Fox is 22%, Keegan is 17% (he was 29% last year which was still not good), Huerter 30%, Monk 31%. I forced myself not to look at Lyles' stats.

We're also down on "wide open" 3s, but it's not a huge decline like it is for open 3s. The big insight is how much worse we shoot when a defender is in closeout range but not close enough to be more than a distraction vs. not having a defender in sight. When you rely on a DHO offense, one of the base premises is you create enough space to get 3s that are open. But it's not going to scheme a whole lot of wide open 3s. I'm sure Brown is seeing the same info and probably thinks this is more of an extended slump than anything else. I tend to agree there but it would be good to get more wide open 3s to get the team some confidence.

One other thing I saw is we're only shooting 30% when we launch 3s with 18-22 secs left in shot clock, so fast break 3s or quick pass and shots (what Lyles has been bricking all season). We were 38% last season, so us missing these quick shots has led to these runs we saw with the Spurs and Raptors.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Any coaches or former players on the forum? Without totally changing the defensive philosophy, is there any smaller tweaks we can try to reduce the amount of open threes while still allowing “no middle”…?

You play straight up man to man....and don't help when someone else gets beat. Stay attached to capable 3 point shooters at all times. Really simple stuff, that some of us have been calling for a couple years.

Sure, they will get some easy 2's, but what you gain is not allowing them to get comfortable with regular open 3's. Call it "analytical defense" if you want. Take away the 3 and don't change your strategy when they make some 2's

 

[iowamcnabb]

You play straight up man to man....and don't help when someone else gets beat. Stay attached to capable 3 point shooters at all times. Really simple stuff, that some of us have been calling for a couple years.

Sure, they will get some easy 2's, but what you gain is not allowing them to get comfortable with regular open 3's. Call it "analytical defense" if you want. Take away the 3 and don't change your strategy when they make some 2's

You are talking no switching or switching is ok but no hedging when someone else gets beat?

 

[Caccia]

You play straight up man to man....and don't help when someone else gets beat. Stay attached to capable 3 point shooters at all times. Really simple stuff, that some of us have been calling for a couple years.

Sure, they will get some easy 2's, but what you gain is not allowing them to get comfortable with regular open 3's. Call it "analytical defense" if you want. Take away the 3 and don't change your strategy when they make some 2's

I am neither a coach nor a former player, but have been watching basketball all my life. A defense has to be flexible. What you suggest will work for many teams, but you need to have a different strategy when facing someone like New Orleans, who will just kill you inside if you allow them to.

In other words, adjust the defensive strategy to try and take away your opponent's strength.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

You are talking no switching or switching is ok but no hedging when someone else gets beat?

Switch if you really need to from a good screen, but don't hedge or cheat off your man

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I am neither a coach nor a former player, but have been watching basketball all my life. A defense has to be flexible. What you suggest will work for many teams, but you need to have a different strategy when facing someone like New Orleans, who will just kill you inside if you allow them to.

In other words, adjust the defensive strategy to try and take away your opponent's strength.

"Flexible" sounds good in theory. However, by in large the Kings opponent strength and what really kills them is 3 point shooting. Has been that way for a long time now

 

[OptimusRhyme]

That was my thought exactly, but it is premature. Terence Davis recently signed with the Milwaukee Bucks' G-league team, and technically, he is a free agent with respect to the NBA. Any team can sign him. His Achilles tendon tear was on 4 January, however. He says "this is a very serious injury. I want to be in the best headspace possible and the best shape... I'm right around the corner for a return."

https://behindthebuckpass.com/nba-veteran-comeback-bucks-g-league-injury-update

dont know why they ever let him go. he was a beast when he caught fire

 

[Spike]

dont know why they ever let him go. he was a beast when he caught fire

Sometimes you need an unpredictable chaos agent.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Sometimes you need an unpredictable chaos agent.

Malik would like to speak to your manager.

 

[Spike]

Malik would like to speak to your manager.

He's a normal now.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

dont know why they ever let him go. he was a beast when he caught fire

They mistakenly figured that Chris Duarte was a better option