Kings sign Landry (part 2)

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swisshh

Starter
#61
#61
A lot of players on the team didn't like playing for Westphal. I heard the same of Sammy D and Cousins' feelings are well known.

It was also pretty obvious that Landry was misused on offense when he was here. You can find posts by me from that time bitching about Landry taking jumpers at the high post where he is neither a good shooter or passer.

Going off that SactownRoyalty article, it makes the unspoken observation that many have made: this only makes sense if there's more trades, and if Landry is the scoring off the bench man and the low post threat when Cousins isn't on the floor.
 
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Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#62
#62
After looking at all of this objectively for a couple days I think I'm starting to get these moves that look strange on the surface. PDA obviously didn't feel that there were any SF's worthy of acquirement through free agency so he chose to sign a nice player at a different position for less money with the intention of trading away multiple players at a later date for a player that fills one of our needs. If it didn't happen through free agency it's going to happen via trade. It seems obvious that our excess of players at certain positions that a trade is looming.
 
Dr. Spaceman

Dr. Spaceman

Bench
#63
#63
rainmaker said:
You're in need of a lesson on what qualifies as star talent.

We can argue star or not, which I don't think he is right now, or star talent or not, but it's clear, clear a day Reke has star talent. Not recognizing that, then proceeding to ignore the toxic environment which he has been engulfed in for multiple seasons, his role always changing, and acting as if the entire picture has been painted is an incredibly big mistake. It's not about whether Reke is a star today or not, it's about the talent, the elite talent he has and can that be successful in a more professional environment. That yourself and others have convinced yourselves it can't and are more than willing to give up on this type of talent in this type of market, at age 23 no less, for a guy like Vasquez is more an indictment on your understanding of what an elite is or isn't as well as has that talent been given a chance to flourish. You keep making blanket statements which don't touch on circumstances nor look past the end result under Keith Smart, a grave mistake.

The quite pathetic aspect to all this, every other player in the select company above is a player kings fans would not hesitate to add to this roster. Sure they all have strengths and weaknesses, some more than others, but for years kings fans have concentrated on what Reke can't do rather than what he can, and what he can do, make no mistake about it, is in elite company.
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That was a fantastic, fantastic post. Our players have been trying to grow in such an extremely toxic environment that we began viewing every single one of them through this negative filter where flaws are highlighted in our search for answers (scapegoats) to our losing.

It's unfortunate, to say the least, that it's looking like we're not going to find out what we had in our hands until it's gone. I am a Kings fan through and through, but I will certainly be rooting for Tyreke's success in New Orleans, where the culture under Monty Williams will be potentially world-changing for him. They used us to build a playoff contender and I hope Tyreke's talents will finally be shown in the proper light.

Anyway, here's to hoping PDA proves me wrong. I want the Kings to win more than I enjoy watching any single player.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#64
#64
Chupacabra said:
After looking at all of this objectively for a couple days I think I'm starting to get these moves that look strange on the surface. PDA obviously didn't feel that there were any SF's worthy of acquirement through free agency so he chose to sign a nice player at a different position for less money with the intention of trading away multiple players at a later date for a player that fills one of our needs. If it didn't happen through free agency it's going to happen via trade. It seems obvious that our excess of players at certain positions that a trade is looming.
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Exactly! And in the meantime he's significantly upgraded both our locker room and our offensive efficiency. Can't wait to see what happens next!
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#65
#65
Just my opinion but I think JT will be next on the block in some kind of a combo deal possibly joined by IT to get a SF. Followed by Signing Aldrich and T. Douglas to cheaper deals.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#66
#66
upinsmoke said:
Just my opinion but I think JT will be next on the block in some kind of a combo deal possibly joined by IT to get a SF. Followed by Signing Aldrich and T. Douglas to cheaper deals.
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Agree with JT and IT... or maybe Patterson. They seem to be our best and most logical trade assets at this point. Not thinking we're gonna resign Douglas but Aldrich might make some sense.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#67
#67
roasthawg said:
Agree with JT and IT... or maybe Patterson. They seem to be our best and most logical trade assets at this point. Not thinking we're gonna resign Douglas but Aldrich might make some sense.
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I'd like to see us keep PPat as a stretch 4 to play with Cousins. I can see JT being gone in a deal to bring back a SF.
 
S

sergmatt

Bench
#68
#68
rainmaker said:
We can argue star or not, which I don't think he is right now, or star talent or not, but it's clear, clear a day Reke has star talent. Not recognizing that, then proceeding to ignore the toxic environment which he has been engulfed in for multiple seasons, his role always changing, and acting as if the entire picture has been painted is an incredibly big mistake. It's not about whether Reke is a star today or not, it's about the talent, the elite talent he has and can that be successful in a more professional environment. That yourself and others have convinced yourselves it can't and are more than willing to give up on this type of talent in this type of market, at age 23 no less, for a guy like Vasquez is more an indictment on your understanding of what an elite is or isn't as well as has that talent been given a chance to flourish. You keep making blanket statements which don't touch on circumstances nor look past the end result under Keith Smart, a grave mistake.

The quite pathetic aspect to all this, every other player in the select company above is a player kings fans would not hesitate to add to this roster. Sure they all have strengths and weaknesses, some more than others, but for years kings fans have concentrated on what Reke can't do rather than what he can, and what he can do, make no mistake about it, is in elite company.
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Mostly what I see above in this lengthy (albeit well put together) analogy of Tyreke Evans and his "star talent" are many excuses and comparing him to players that are actually recognized as "stars" because they win games.

You can make all of the excuses for Tyreke you want and make all of the comparisons you want but the bottom line is that other than New Orleans nobody else offering him "star talent" money. Almost every team in the league could have swung a sign-and-trade deal and absorbed Evans affordable "star talent" contract and yet none of them did......including the Kings own GM who apparently doesn't feel he's a "star talent" either.

If Tyreke is as good as you think he is, multiple teams would have been all over him in Free Agency.......especially good teams who wanted to put themselves over the top. Yet the only team that came calling and offered a good deal was another team in rebuilding mode. Tyreke is a good player but star or "star talent" nope.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#69
#69
People are saying that NO is now a playoff team with Reke and Holiday joining the team. NO also starting to talk about playing Reke at SF with a backcourt of Holliday and Gordon. Reke and Gordon are both guys that want the ball n their hand and penetrate. Gordon doesn't knock down the 3 with any consistency....abou 30-32 %. Holiday is a little more balanced. I'm just saying that defenses will be packing the paint on those guys although Ryan Anderson helps in that area but Aminu can't hit a 3. They ay have problems.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#72
#72
dude12 said:
People are saying that NO is now a playoff team with Reke and Holiday joining the team. NO also starting to talk about playing Reke at SF with a backcourt of Holliday and Gordon. Reke and Gordon are both guys that want the ball n their hand and penetrate. Gordon doesn't knock down the 3 with any consistency....abou 30-32 %. Holiday is a little more balanced. I'm just saying that defenses will be packing the paint on those guys although Ryan Anderson helps in that area but Aminu can't hit a 3. They ay have problems.
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IMO, NO will find that the 3 doesn't work. Their original plan of having him as a backup 2/3 seems very doable. I would imagine he'd thrive in that role if he wanted it.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#75
#75
roasthawg said:
Exactly! And in the meantime he's significantly upgraded both our locker room
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How exactly? How?

Tyreke wasn't the problem in the locker room. He was one of the best team players on the squad.

Landry has been here before. He's a solid journeyman worker, but the lockerroom was not great when he was here before, and his return forces the departure of one of our current best citizens at PF.

This whole poisonous lockerroom bit is getting suddenly overplayed as a justification anyway. We did not have a bunch of truly cancerous guys, we had a bunch of guys who fundamentally did not trust the coach, management, and each other. Nor should they have. And the guys who WERE closest to being personality problems are still here. IT is still here with a bruised ego and desire to beat the **** out of the guy who came in and took his spot. Marcus is still here struggling to play team ball and to play without a featured role. James Johnson was strange and is thankfully gone. Slamons and Outlaw aren't bad guys so much as incompetent guys. There's not a whole bunch of poisonous attitudes to clean up beyond Boogie, just a cohesive team to build with fewer duplicative players and built in conflicts, and so far we have made those just as bad if not worse.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#76
#76
jcwkings said:
I don't see them trading IT, he is the type of personality Vivek wants around.
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Actually this whole offseason has basically been one long insult to IT's personality, and right now he is probably the unhappiest guy on the roster with how things are going. he reacted very poorly to being benched last year, and now this year not only has he been rebenched with much talk of wanting more passing, but its his contract year, and he is going to want to be able to put up big numbers to secure a nice deal.

Personally I still like him for a change of pace guard, a true Mutt & Jeff pairing with Vasquez. And I had assumed with his tiny contract he would survive the purge. But I'm not sure they like him, and next offseason we would then be facing both our PGs having their contracts come up at the same time.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#77
#77
Bricklayer said:
How exactly? How?

Tyreke wasn't the problem in the locker room. He was one of the best team players on the squad.

Landry has been here before. He's a solid journeyman worker, but the lockerroom was not great when he was here before, and his return forces the departure of one of our current best citizens at PF.

This whole poisonous lockerroom bit is getting suddenly overplayed as a justification anyway. We did not have a bunch of truly cancerous guys, we had a bunch of guys who fundamentally did not trust the coach, management, and each other. Nor should they have. And the guys who WERE closest to being personality problems are still here. IT is still here with a bruised ego and desire to beat the **** out of the guy who came in and took his spot. Marcus is still here struggling to play team ball and to play without a featured role. James Johnson was strange and is thankfully gone. Slamons and Outlaw aren't bad guys so much as incompetent guys. There's not a whole bunch of poisonous attitudes to clean up beyond Boogie, just a cohesive team to build with fewer duplicative players and built in conflicts, and so far we have made those just as bad if not worse.
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Tyreke might not have been a problem but he definitley wasn't a rah-rah type of guy either. But I was talking about more from the perspective of Landry already loving Malone and his coaching style... it's gotta be an upgrade over a bunch of guys who don't know Malone to have a guy fully excited to be on board who has been with Malone in the past. Landry wanted to come here, he's excited to be here, and he loves the head coach. No one else currently on our roster can say all of those same things about themselves as of right now.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#80
#80
Andriod_KiNg said:
Has it been brought up that both our PFs are currently better than Landry, way better.
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I don't know about way better, but its certainly been brought up that they are nearly is not just as good. 89 Kings fan in the other thread even broke out 4 years worth of stats on it.

Signing midlevel guys who duplicate guys and are no particular upgrade is what Petrie always did. So, well, maybe we can call it a Kings tradition.
 
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T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#81
#81
Bricklayer said:
I don't know about way better, but its certainly been brought up that they are nearly is not just as good. 89 Kings fan in the other thread even broke out 4 years worth of stats on it.

Signing midlevel guys who duplicate guys and are no particular upgrade is what Petrie always did. Well. let's call it a tradition.
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Link me. I want to check out what he came up with
 
A

Arby's Roast Beef

Starter
#83
#83
There's a disturbing trend of (lack) of defensive players we're getting. DX really, really touted Ben McLemore's defense, but they have a habit of exaggeration at times, and I think they might be wrong about his defense. But we'll have to see. Vasquez is poor at contesting shots. Landry was by far Golden State's worst defender last year--let's just put this way, guys feasted on him when they were matched up with him on offense. And Landry also was Golden State's also had the worst rebounding/defensive playmaking with respect to position on the team. I know Landry's offense is good and incredibly consistent after all these years, but one of the prototypes that ages horribly in the league is undersized PFs. Landry is precisely that, and is a notoriously awful defender. I'm confused we actually paid so much money for so many years for him. We might have been bidding against ourselves, a bad habit of the previous regime and hopefully (not) of this regime. But this was an awful signing.

Believe it or not, Monta was a strong defender last season in Milwaukee. I don't know if it was the Skiles/Boylan effect, because Monta had a horrendous rep on this end in Golden State's junk defenses, but he's always had the quickness and the tools. So, if we're getting him, I'm somewhat interested and worried given the lack of defensive year-to-year consistency, as his offense isn't my cup of tea.

I guess we need to start getting players that can bring it on both ends. But we never seem to attain those, and for a guy reared up by stat geeks, D'Alessandro is completely going the wrong direction here.
 
Jkbiker

Jkbiker

Starter
#84
#84
http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/201...much-needed-flexibility-with-three-way-trade/

So if Warriors can not renounce Landry does that affect us signing him?"Previously, the plan was to renounce Jack and Landry — and possibly cut the non-guaranteed contracts of Murphy, Machado and Jones — to get the Warriors under the cap enough to sign Iguodala to a four-year, $48 million. But doing that would leave the Warriors with ZERO cap space. What’s more, they would have had to give up their mid-level exception, rookie exception and the trade exceptions they received from Utah. Golden State would only have minimum contracts and a $2.6 million “room exception” to fill out its roster.
To prevent that, the Warriors instead will sign-and-trade for Iguodala. This prevents renouncing Jack and Landry and their exceptions. The Nuggets will also get Foye from Utah in a sign-and-trade (for three years, $9 million, per the Deseret News). The Warriors will send another second-round pick (2018) to Utah."
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#85
#85
Jkbiker said:
http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/201...much-needed-flexibility-with-three-way-trade/

So if Warriors can not renounce Landry does that affect us signing him?"Previously, the plan was to renounce Jack and Landry — and possibly cut the non-guaranteed contracts of Murphy, Machado and Jones — to get the Warriors under the cap enough to sign Iguodala to a four-year, $48 million. But doing that would leave the Warriors with ZERO cap space. What’s more, they would have had to give up their mid-level exception, rookie exception and the trade exceptions they received from Utah. Golden State would only have minimum contracts and a $2.6 million “room exception” to fill out its roster.
To prevent that, the Warriors instead will sign-and-trade for Iguodala. This prevents renouncing Jack and Landry and their exceptions. The Nuggets will also get Foye from Utah in a sign-and-trade (for three years, $9 million, per the Deseret News). The Warriors will send another second-round pick (2018) to Utah."
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No.
 
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