[Game] Kings @ Rockets, 11/6/2023 5pm Pacific 8pm Eastern
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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This is nowhere near as bad as you think. Keegan had an off shooting game and was a bit hesitant/scared to shoot the ball. On this play specifically, he was able to get to his shot and get an open 3, but hesitated, and then put the ball on the floor and traveled.
Wasted offensive possession ending in a TO because your best shooter was in his own head. That’s when Mike called in for a sub. 100% deserved imo
Srzly
G-League
I’m not even sure if Mike’s story is 100% true. Brown said it like “I think Keegan said ‘eff you’” and as someone who has watched Keegan his entire college career, this would be so out of character for him. You never even see him talk to the refs or get animated (and he still gets a rookie whistle) so I can’t imagine him really saying that to a coach unless it was in a playful manner.
If Keegan did really say that out of anger then yeah there is a problem and Mike needs to take a new approach. He is already overthinking and playing like someone afraid to make a mistake.
People also trying to take shots at Domas too that he's "not worth" his contract.
Typical Kings fans lol. One of the best players in franchise history and very clearly the 2nd best coach in franchise history and we're already trying to push them out the door after 2 bad games.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
To be fair, we need to see more than a season and change to crown someone as one of the best in franchise history
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Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
I mean I hear you. I definitely hear you. But these last two games should at least be triggering some alarm bells in people - even if you concede that we played above our heads last year - and particularly after the ASB when we went on that run and created separation up into that third seed - even flirting with the top seed.
All that said - the way the team has looked these past two games is what has me concerned. I'm not calling for anyone's firing or even taking shots at Coach Brown. What I am saying is I didn't expect us to look this unprepared for adversity and also didn't think our offense would be so one dimensional.
I'm still predicting 82 wins. I just think the path to get there is a little bit narrower.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Alright everyone has had a chance to air their grievances. Maybe we can start to transition to constructive dialog. What can we do with our current roster, rotation, play style etc. what would you do if you were the coach?
1. Bring Davion off the bench if Fox isn't good to go. Don't fully bench him obviously, but he's struggling to run the offense and we just have so many hapless offensive possessions where we're passing the ball around the perimeter and not getting any rim pressure. The Kings offense is 22.4 points worse with him on the floor this season. 124 minutes him on, 170 minutes him off. It's not fair to put that all on him, but damn. He's certainly one of the main culprits to why we've stalled out on O and this staggering number matches the eye-test when he's running the offense.
2. Start Monk regardless if Fox is back or not. I've been the biggest Huerter cheerleader on the forum, but you got to find a way to spark this team and get another on-ball threat on the floor. Fox/Monk best-friend connection is one way to try. And despite our insane struggles offensively the last 2 games, the Kings offense is 6.4 points better with him on the floor than off. 131 On/ 163 min Off. So a pretty clear sample that he's making things happen out there. Yes, it affects the bench rotation, but we need to get the core guys right first. Then worry about the bench. There's no sense in trying to keep the bench intact if our top 6 isn't working.
3. Pick up the damn Pace. We're 22nd in pace so far this season. Of course no Fox affects that, but that's inexcusable for our roster. We win because we blow teams out of the water scoring 130+ a game. This grind it out, slow it down gameplan is never going to work for this roster.
4. Lyles at the 5 when he gets back. Javale has actually been a pleasant surprise, but this team needs to find it's identity again. We're going to run you out the building and drop 130 on your head. I want to see Fox-Monk-Sasha-Lyles grouping offensively.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Get healthy and run it back. That’s all there is. I don’t think it will be nearly as successful as last year, but still a playoff team.
I’d 100% look for a Davion move and a new backup PG more in line with Fox’s style. Those seem like makable non-fantasy / NBA2K style moves.
Unfortunately the team minus Fox just doesn’t have enough talent to compete. No dynamic scorer, or a guy that can break down a defense in the halfcourt.
TaxMan
Starter
Yes!! This is what I was alluding to in a post after the game last night. He pushed them hard last year, and clearly it worked. Everyone on the team (Fox and Domas in particular) pointed to his structure and accountability as being very important in changing our culture. What I'm worried about is that Brown is now taking that to the next level and it may be potentially counter productive (or at least the speed at which he's pushing them may be too fast). He is doing this out of a place of love and pushing them to fulfil what he feels is their true promise. However, there is a really thin line on this stuff between motivation and pushing a team to greatness, and getting in their head and eventually tuning him out. I definitely don't feel like we are anywhere close to the "tuning him out" phase, but possibly creating some paralysis by getting in their heads right now.
I'm concerned but far from sell the farm. Sabonis needs to shoot midrange shots if open(been saying that since last year. But then the excuse was his thumb), I dont think Davion is that answer at back up pg he's seems pretty one-dimensional, Keegan needs to make better choices, Brown need to figure something out as well. I agree he may be getting too much into their heads.
I want to make it clear that just becuase I critize a player or coach it dosent mean I think we should trade them for peanuts as soon as possible. I see people here making this assuption of others. Personally I think the higher up the more security you have as I think consistency and culture is more important than some bean counters think. So with that I think Hueter and Davion need to do something or we guve that time to some of the other guys. Maybe sawp monk in at 2.
I was hoping for a little more diversity in the offensive plays this year.
I want to make it clear that just becuase I critize a player or coach it dosent mean I think we should trade them for peanuts as soon as possible. I see people here making this assuption of others. Personally I think the higher up the more security you have as I think consistency and culture is more important than some bean counters think. So with that I think Hueter and Davion need to do something or we guve that time to some of the other guys. Maybe sawp monk in at 2.
I was hoping for a little more diversity in the offensive plays this year.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
yeh sometimes I feel like Monk’s main role this year is to feed McGee lobs. It’s been effective but I’d like to see him do more on offense.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I'm starting to wonder if this team would be better with Trey Lyles starting at power forward to play higher minutes once healthy.....and moving Barnes to the second unit where he would be motivated/forced to take more shots as a higher option on the floor
TaxMan
Starter
I will be concerned if we look like this after fox has been back for a couple games. All of our guys become "better" players with Fox in the lineup. Right now we are left without a go-to player. The guys we have out there recognize this and they are all pressing to find their way. Monk is the only player on this roster capable of filling that void right now, and while I love Malik he can be hot and cold and often try to do too much. As others have pointed out, the loss of Davis has been shockingly glaring as another guy we had last year that, while he's not really an iso go-to guy, does have balls of steel and is not afraid to let it fly.
Not a horrible idea. HB hasn't been bit by the "I forgot how to shoot" bug, but he's been insanely passive all year. Especially these past 3 games where we really needed him to step up and be a 15+ FGA guy. Or hell, even a 10+ FGA guy.
10 PPG ( 7 FGA)
0.7 APG
1.3 RPG
the last 3 with Fox out is inexcusable.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I’d like to see Brown get the ball to HB in the midrange area maybe on cuts and let him draw contact. Getting to the line is a great way to stop the bleeding.
I’d increase Monks minutes regardless if he starts or not.
use the Keegan Domas 2 way game more but not just the DHO for threes. Would like to see more cuts for mid range or drives
I like Colby’s ability to get into the lane. Maybe you let him take over the role of feeding McGee while still being able to hit floaters. Gives us another look aside from threes and bully ball.
I do think there is a bunch of over thinking going on instead of read and react.
I’d increase Monks minutes regardless if he starts or not.
use the Keegan Domas 2 way game more but not just the DHO for threes. Would like to see more cuts for mid range or drives
I like Colby’s ability to get into the lane. Maybe you let him take over the role of feeding McGee while still being able to hit floaters. Gives us another look aside from threes and bully ball.
I do think there is a bunch of over thinking going on instead of read and react.
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Yeah, it's one of the weirder things I've seen in recent memory from an NBA starter vet. He comes out blistering hot in the first game,...then doesn't even seem to try to see if he can keep a real productive start going. So at this point, the way to force him not to defer, is to play with the second unit where in his head, he's the best player and 1 or 2 option
Tizzy Flip
Starter
Let’s prove Sabonis’ worth without Fox in the lineup. Play bully ball with him. Play him down low and feed him the ball, push him to force the action around the basket. Get him going and then force the defense to help, which should then get open shots for everyone else. We are shooting way too many contested 3s and it’s primarily due to the opposing teams not respecting Sabonis as a threat outside the key
I feel like HB should get the call once in awhile. Seems like the offense is one dimseional, especially with no Fox. Show them one thing and then another, then change back. Again the old kings did this. Webber/Bibby screen and pop and then once they got used to that it was Vlade Peja with back door cuts, or baseline fakes back out to 3, then you get Bobby and Hedo off the bench. Right now it seems like DHO or bust, and "maybe the bench can do something."
Srzly
G-League
I’d replace Davion with Monk, have Sabonis start taking outside shots to hopefully get teams to respect it and unclog the paint, and I’d focus on Keegan getting multiple sets every time he is in where he plays a 2 man game with Sabonis and tell him to attack and look to score.
I like Colby more than Davion at this point so if Brown insists on having monk come off the bench then have Colby start.
Need Sabonis to draw his defender away from the paint somehow. Teams are clogging the lane so it is hard to drive to the hoop and they can play over aggressive on shooters knowing there is help in the paint. Sabonis can make outside shots but he isn’t really even looking at the hoop right now.
Way too much overthinking right now by everyone out there.
I'm going to set aside the problematic implications of this statement, and simply ask you why you think that her appearance would factor into people's opinions of her commentary, when you can't see her while she's doing commentary?
Why would I ever listen to the post-game press conference? 63 percent of the season I'm up close to an hour past my bedtime just to make it to the end of the game; you think I'm staying up for the press conference? Those things are almost always entirely a waste of time, in my opinion; they're a useless sound montage. Nobody's going to say anything interesting, anyway, no matter what they get asked. And, if they do, it'll be on the internet in the morning.
And why wouldn't I want the color commentator to talk more? What's the alternative, that they lay out for the play-by-play announcer? Why would I want that? I don't need the PBP caller to give me a literal transcript of what's happening in the game: I'm watching the game. Like, most of us agree that G-Man is the best in the business, but he's doing that for the benefit of people who can't see the game. I don't need Kayte to lay out so that Kyle Draper can tell me that Sabonis ran a DHO with Huerter: I just saw it. If your TV play-by-play announcer is describing everything that's happening, like a damned stenographer, they're the one who's talking too much. And, by the way, probably at least a third of the things that Kayte is saying when she's "talking too much" she probably wouldn't have needed to say, if the Kings had filled her role as sideline reporter with somebody else, when she was promoted to the color job; she's basically doing both during the broadcast.
I feel like much of the lack of diversity in the offense can be attributed to Murray and Huerter's slow starts. If your wings aren't producing offensively, there are only so many options you can utilize.
He's taking about 4 jumpers a game
6/15 on mid-range shots for 41%
2/8 on 3's for 25%
Not great, but our spacing issues are far more about the guys who are actually supposed to be spacing. Ideally he's around 46% in the mid-range and 32-33% from 3.
Huerter: 24.2% on 5.5 3PA
Keegan: 26% on 8.3 3PA (OOF)
Sasha: 27.3% on 3.7 3PA
Davion: 30% on 3.3 3PA
Duarte: 33.3% on 3.0 3PA
Actually good shooting:
HB: 46.4% on 4.7 3PA ( SHOOT MORE)
Monk: 40% on 5.8 3PA ( SHOOT MORE)
Fox: 37.5% on 8.0 3PA (Damn dude is pulling)
Srzly
G-League
The Rockets weren’t letting us get open looks from 3 though, from what I remember seeing, but could be wrong. They were playing so physical in the perimeter and gave no space to our shooters but Sengun was always in the paint on drives. That’s part of why I think we had so many late shot clock situations. No one was really open on the perimeter except Sabonis and only Fox and Monk have confidence to create their own shots right now.
I think having Lyles would have been huge against this rockets team. A small 5 that could defend sengun and space the floor.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Live by the three, die by the three.
My tinfoil hat theory is that we're being forced to play a gimmicky "Vivek ball" that the Warriors deciphered for the rest of the league in the post season last year.
... but hating on/scapegoating Vivek is just my safe space when the team sucks, so what do I know.
My tinfoil hat theory is that we're being forced to play a gimmicky "Vivek ball" that the Warriors deciphered for the rest of the league in the post season last year.
... but hating on/scapegoating Vivek is just my safe space when the team sucks, so what do I know.
upinsmoke
All-Star
Dude did you ever play sports? It happens all the time.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The surprising thing for me is that it was Houston Rockets who pulled back the curtain to expose King deficiencies. They are one year ahead of "my" schedule. First, we knew the Kings were vulnerable if Fox went down. Houston exploited and exposed the vulnerability. Brown's experimentation at pg against the Rockets spoke to some desperation to find a serviceable backup for Fox against an athletic pressuring team. Second, we knew the Kings weren't the most athletic of teams. Houston exposed that as well. Third, we knew the West was going to be brutal this year. Who exactly is worse in the West? Memphis because Ja is out temporarily and Adams for the season? Who else? Everybody else is better, imo. This season is going to be a grind it out war of attrition, which means it's going to test us fans, not just all the teams of the West. Next up is Portland with the athletic Sharpe, Henderson, Grant, Ayton & Co. We'll see how the Kings deal with a little adversity.
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