Kings rebuilt in two deals + time

[Smills91]

Trade #1:
Kings deal - Ron Artest
Mavs deal - Devin Harris, Greg Buckner, 2008 lotto protected 1st

Kings get two assets to build for the future with and Harris/Martin would be the quickest backcourt duo in the league. Greg Buckner has 2 years left on his deal and is relatively insignificant in the deal other than trade filler.

Mavs get the PERFECT player for their needs.
Artest = Offensive Post Presence/Ball Handler to allow Terry to play off the ball/defensive stopper/all-star/DPOY

This deal allows the Mavs to reload and try for the title again next year.


Trade #2:
Kings deal: Mike Bibby
Kings receive: Marvin Williams/Speedy Claxton

Kings get a young prospect to replace Ron at SF and Claxton provides depth at the PG.

Hawks get a PG to help them win now with JJ/Bibby the Hawks have one of the elite backcourts in the league. Getting Bibby for Claxton improves the Hawks salary cap situation.

After these two deals the Kings have essentially their young team built below their big contracts that expire in 2010.

Kings current roster:
C: Brad Miller, Mikki Moore, Spencer Hawes
PF: Kenny Thomas, SAR, Justin Williams
SF: Marvin Williams, Francisco Garcia, Greg Buckner
SG: Kevin MArtin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Devin Harris, Speedy Claxton, Mustafa Shakur

Kings young core:
C: Spencer Hawes
PF: Justin Williams
SF: Marvin Williams/Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin/Quincy Douby
PG: Devin Harris

 

[dude12]

I like both deals for the Kings if it would happen. Since the Mavs have Josh Howard at SF though, the need for Artest is diminished unless they put Howard at SG and Terry stays at the PG spot. It could be too much for Dallas to give up. Harris is pretty good in his own right and tacking on a 1st rounder. Granted its a late 1st rounder so that makes it more possible. I would love to have Harris.

I've been looking at Atlanta as a team that could use Bibby right now. This would allow Acie Law to come off the bench. They get rid of the Claxton contract. Claxton just had an unbelievable abysmal year. He's better than that and potentially he regains his trade value. Marvin Williams would be a nice addition. Hawks can afford to trade one of those young SF/PF combo guys they have. This trade is more doable and makes sense for both teams. I'd like to see it happen.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I'd hold on to Bibby in hopes that he will opt out this season. Then we get cap space. If not we can allways trade him later. I would suspect that this season he HAS to look better than last season effectively increasing his trade value.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Trade #1:
Kings deal - Ron Artest
Mavs deal - Devin Harris, Greg Buckner, 2008 lotto protected 1st

Kings get two assets to build for the future with and Harris/Martin would be the quickest backcourt duo in the league. Greg Buckner has 2 years left on his deal and is relatively insignificant in the deal other than trade filler.

Mavs get the PERFECT player for their needs.
Artest = Offensive Post Presence/Ball Handler to allow Terry to play off the ball/defensive stopper/all-star/DPOY

This deal allows the Mavs to reload and try for the title again next year.

Dallas needs Harris more than you think. He is the key to stopping opposing quick guards. He was crucial in stopping parker when they made it to the finals. No way they ship him out for a headcase like artest.

Trade #2:
Kings deal: Mike Bibby
Kings receive: Marvin Williams/Speedy Claxton

Kings get a young prospect to replace Ron at SF and Claxton provides depth at the PG.

Hawks get a PG to help them win now with JJ/Bibby the Hawks have one of the elite backcourts in the league. Getting Bibby for Claxton improves the Hawks salary cap situation.

After these two deals the Kings have essentially their young team built below their big contracts that expire in 2010.

Kings current roster:
C: Brad Miller, Mikki Moore, Spencer Hawes
PF: Kenny Thomas, SAR, Justin Williams
SF: Marvin Williams, Francisco Garcia, Greg Buckner
SG: Kevin MArtin, John Salmons, Quincy Douby
PG: Devin Harris, Speedy Claxton, Mustafa Shakur

Kings young core:
C: Spencer Hawes
PF: Justin Williams
SF: Marvin Williams/Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin/Quincy Douby
PG: Devin Harris

The hawks might do the second deal tho. however, they did just pick up law iv in the draft. if they are planning to continue on the rebuilding quest.. this deal might not make sense for them.



deals that would make sense for the kings would be trying to deal some of the aging front court miller/kt/sar and any other players that are preventing our young guys from developing.

 

[Jespher]

I thought no team could trade with Atlanta because of the ownership issues. Seriously, if they wouldn't even consider Amare Stoudemire, why would they want Mike Bibby?

I do like the Dallas trade though, nice future back court. Throw Bibby in with them and Francisco to make it deep and lethal.

 

[beb0p]

The Mavs turned down a Harris + ender for Bibby deal, so I don't see them taking on a similar deal for Artest. Like KMart23 said, they need Harris's quickness and defense more than they need Artest's.

As for Atlanta. They're still in love with Marvin Williams. The one youngster they want to trade is Josh Childress. Anyone else will take a lot more than Bibby/Artest to pry him away.

 

[tyrant]

all is well except for kenny thomas starting at the PF

 

[Smills91]

The Mavs turned down a Harris + ender for Bibby deal, so I don't see them taking on a similar deal for Artest. Like KMart23 said, they need Harris's quickness and defense more than they need Artest's.

As for Atlanta. They're still in love with Marvin Williams. The one youngster they want to trade is Josh Childress. Anyone else will take a lot more than Bibby/Artest to pry him away.

Artest makes almost HALF of what Bibby makes...how is this a similar deal?

 

[beb0p]

Artest makes almost HALF of what Bibby makes...how is this a similar deal?

I'm not talking about money. We all know Cuban is willing to go way over the luxury tax, so money is not an issue with the Mavs.

I'm talking about giving up Harris + ender for Artest vs. Harris + ender for Bibby. Similar deal, meaning they give up Harris + ender in both deals. And they've already turned down one.

 

[dude12]

I think the Hawks should make a move at some point and blend an older veteran or 2 with the youngsters.

C- Pachulia
PF- Horton, S Williams
SF- M Williams, J Smith
SG- Johnson, Childress
PG- Law, Claxton, Lue

Williams and Smith can swing at the 3 and 4. Perhaps us acquiring Smith instead would be ok or Shelden Williams. I just think that by adding a veteran, they could take the next step. I think that Bibby would fit nicely here.

 

[Smills91]

I'm not talking about money. We all know Cuban is willing to go way over the luxury tax, so money is not an issue with the Mavs.

I'm talking about giving up Harris + ender for Artest vs. Harris + ender for Bibby. Similar deal, meaning they give up Harris + ender in both deals. And they've already turned down one.

Who's this ender...I understand Petrie offered Bibby for Croshere and Harris...but Artest for Harris and BUCKNER(not an ender - has 4 years left on his deal with a team option after 2). Is a pretty reasonable deal from both teams perspective.

 

[beb0p]

Who's this ender...I understand Petrie offered Bibby for Croshere and Harris...but Artest for Harris and BUCKNER(not an ender - has 4 years left on his deal with a team option after 2). Is a pretty reasonable deal from both teams perspective.

Oh I assumed Buckner is an ender, because why would we want him otherwise?? So we take on Buckner's $15 millions of uselessness (we have no need for another SG/SF) just to get Harris? I don't think Harris is worth it. I mean, he is a good young player who may develop into a solid starter, but nothing more.

But that doesn't address the core problem: the Mavs need Harris' defense and speed. He just happens to fit their game plan and the Mavs don't have another player who can fill Harris' role.

 

[Smills91]

Oh I assumed Buckner is an ender, because why would we want him otherwise?? So we take on Buckner's $15 millions of uselessness (we have no need for another SG/SF) just to get Harris? I don't think Harris is worth it. I mean, he is a good young player who may develop into a solid starter, but nothing more.

But that doesn't address the core problem: the Mavs need Harris' defense and speed. He just happens to fit their game plan and the Mavs don't have another player who can fill Harris' role.

You take on buckner because his salary in all honesty is irrelevant. For our purposes he's got 2 years left. He expires before our big 3 expire(Brad/Kenny/SAR). So he's just salary filler. The deal is Artest for Harris which is MORE than reasonable for both sides.

And in terms of needing DEFENSE I don't think Artest has much shortage in that department...they'd be getting a STEP UP in that department.

 

[beb0p]

You take on buckner because his salary in all honesty is irrelevant. For our purposes he's got 2 years left. He expires before our big 3 expire(Brad/Kenny/SAR). So he's just salary filler. The deal is Artest for Harris which is MORE than reasonable for both sides.

And in terms of needing DEFENSE I don't think Artest has much shortage in that department...they'd be getting a STEP UP in that department.

You can't mix apples and oranges. Artest is not the type of player to guard those lighting-fast 6'1 PG. And even if he can, he is not a PG guard who slashes into the lane and dishes off in a consistent basis and pushes the tempo like Harris .

 

[Smills91]

You can't mix apples and oranges. Artest is not the type of player to guard those lighting-fast 6'1 PG. And even if he can, he is not a PG guard who slashes into the lane and dishes off in a consistent basis and pushes the tempo like Harris .

Well on the other side of the coin, Harris doesn't bring the toughness and post presence on offense to the Mavs either. Sure they're different players, but overall, Artest makes the Mavs a much better team overall for the immediate future IMO. Harris would give the Kings their PG of the future and a lightning quick/athletic backcourt duo of Harris/Martin.

If we trade Artest, that's what I want to see happen.

 

[Vlade4GM]

What do they need Artest for? They have Josh Howard. Neither Howard nor Artest are sg's.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Well on the other side of the coin, Harris doesn't bring the toughness and post presence on offense to the Mavs either. Sure they're different players, but overall, Artest makes the Mavs a much better team overall for the immediate future IMO. Harris would give the Kings their PG of the future and a lightning quick/athletic backcourt duo of Harris/Martin.

If we trade Artest, that's what I want to see happen.

They're probably more willing to give Jason Terry for Artest than they are with Harris.

Actually, believe it or not, Harris has become a key piece for the Mavs' excellent defense last year--they were one of the best are holding their opponents down in points per game, and Harris is looked upon as their defensive stopper. No, it wasn't Stackhouse. It wasn't Terry. It was Harris.

Now, while Mark Cuban is a huge advocate of firepower (got Van Exel, Jamison, and currently, Stackhouse, within the past 5 years--all of whom had averaged 20 something points before they joined the Mavs, and played off the Mavs bench), I'm not sure whether he'd dangle, or, to better put it, even consider Harris as trade meat to land Artest. While Petrie may request that, as I said in your other thread, it's more plausible that they would give away Terry for that rather than Harris, especially since their offensive firepower is already filled with the likes of Nowitzki, Howard and Stack. Now, Cuban may appreciate the extreme defensive toughness that Artest has (and may also appreciate the one-on-one offense he brings, presumably a staple of Mavs offense since they garnered few assists last year), ask yourself this: isn't that role already filled by the long defensive minded Josh Howard as well? You can't have too much of a good thing, and considering how good the Mavs' defense has been the past year, it's no small wonder why the Mavs haven't considered Artest this offseason at all.

 

[Smills91]

They're probably more willing to give Jason Terry for Artest than they are with Harris.

Actually, believe it or not, Harris has become a key piece for the Mavs' excellent defense last year--they were one of the best are holding their opponents down in points per game, and Harris is looked upon as their defensive stopper. No, it wasn't Stackhouse. It wasn't Terry. It was Harris.

Now, while Mark Cuban is a huge advocate of firepower (got Van Exel, Jamison, and currently, Stackhouse, within the past 5 years--all of whom had averaged 20 something points before they joined the Mavs, and played off the Mavs bench), I'm not sure whether he'd dangle, or, to better put it, even consider Harris as trade meat to land Artest. While Petrie may request that, as I said in your other thread, it's more plausible that they would give away Terry for that rather than Harris, especially since their offensive firepower is already filled with the likes of Nowitzki, Howard and Stack. Now, Cuban may appreciate the extreme defensive toughness that Artest has (and may also appreciate the one-on-one offense he brings, presumably a staple of Mavs offense since they garnered few assists last year), ask yourself this: isn't that role already filled by the long defensive minded Josh Howard as well? You can't have too much of a good thing, and considering how good the Mavs' defense has been the past year, it's no small wonder why the Mavs haven't considered Artest this offseason at all.

And I'm more willing to give up Kenny Thomas for Jason Terry. Terry is redundant to Bibby. Harris is who we'd target since trading Artest signifies a rebuild move.


Diop
Dirk
Artest
Howard
Terry

would be the best starting 5 in the league IMO.

Artest would give them a boost of what they NEED to win a title. Defense, toughness and an offensive low post presence.

Harris is definitely nice, but they're not winning anything anytime soon with Harris coming off the bench at PG. Yes they're high on him, but Artest assures that the Mavs are the team to beat in the NBA next season IMO.

Artest allows the Mavs to have the most flexibility of any team in the league.

Artest can play the 1 on offense which allows Terry to play the 2 on Offense and the 1 on defense
Artest would immediately take the oppositions best offensive wing threat thus rendinging that player nullified for all intents and purposes.
Artest would either A) command a double team in the paintwhich would allow the Dirk's, Terry's, Howard's, Stackhouse's free looks from the perimeter or B) score at will on the opposition, because their is really no 3 or 4 that can truly guard artest. 3's aren't strong enough and 4's aren't quick enough.
Artest's presence takes the pressure off of dirk/terry to perform at a high level defensively.
AND THE BIGGEST thing that artest does is allow Artest to take the man that Dirk would have guarded due to height/mobility..which then preserves Dirk's game for the 4 quarters to be more of a focal point on offense.

I jsut don't see Harris having the same impact for the Mavs. He's a good young PG, but they're exactly what they were last year with Harris instead of Artest...VULNERABLE.

Artest's makes the Mavs virtually invincible if healthy, both physically and mentally. It's definitely a high-risk deal for the Mavs, but the reward is even higher...the window won't be there for more than 2-3 more years really. Artest could help the Mavs win at lest 2 or 3 of those rings.

Also, with the contract situation where it is, Artest's 'behavioral' issues are probably more of a moot point than ever before. He screws up this time and it's no payday for ROn-Ron. Ron's a math major, he can add that part up.

 

[Smills91]

What do they need Artest for? They have Josh Howard. Neither Howard nor Artest are sg's.

Howard/Artest/Stackhouse is a mighty fine 2/3 rotation. Howard can easily slip down to the 2 guard, especially with his improved ball handling skills.