[Game] Kings @ Nuggets - Wednesday, Feb. 13 - 6PT/9ET

He's got great talent, but if he doesn't get his fouls under control he'll never be a good player. Fouling out in 12 minutes. How often has something similar happened with him? Too often. What good is your talent if you can't stay on the floor. With all that said, I fully expect him to get it under control. He's still a rookie and we can't put too high of expectations on him at this point. He'll learn, he'll get stronger and smarter. Patience...
It’s not even fouls it’s emotions. Giles gets man-handled and he looses his cool and wildly pushes back. Giles is either going to have to get stronger or chill out. I’m betting Giles hits the weights even harder this summer. ;)
 
Denver is one of the best defensive teams so they were bound to slow us up at some point. We did generate some open shots though, even 3s, that we missed. That said, there was a stretch of one on one in the 3rd that yielded nothing.
True, but this isn't unique to this game. It's been pointed out in previous games as well. It's one of those things where if Denver stops you while you take good shots, hats off, but the stumbling and bumbling that's going on for several minutes straight some games needs to be nipped. It could be player freedom, it could be bad play calls, it could be a bit of both. All I know is that it's the one thing holding the team back right now. Like I said, fastest team, 9th in PPG might not get you into the postseason in this or any other year with the way the Kings play and with the personnel they have on the squad.
 
He's taking his licks. This summer shows what he's made of.
Just when he looked like he was getting the fouls under control he's back to being a bull in a china shop again. Makes me wonder had he played a little bit very late last year if that would have helped for this year. Giles really needs to learn what a foul is (and isn't) in the league. Right now pretty much any contact he makes is a foul.
 
Kings played great. The competed with a top team at home. But playing small ball against a top offensive rebounding team with a new guy playing 41 minutes at altitude is not Joeger’s finest moment.
I disagree. The reason why Denver is a great rebounding squad is matchup based. Milsap kills traditional 4s. Teams have to put a Barnes type of player on him. That player is typically a weaker rebounder. Joker and the gaurds are great rebounders. What you are left with is Willie to deal with the joker one on one. Very few big man can handle it. Tonight Willie did ok.
 
It’s not even fouls it’s emotions. Giles gets man-handled and he looses his cool and wildly pushes back. Giles is either going to have to get stronger or chill out. I’m betting Giles hits the weights even harder this summer. ;)
Outside of this game and the Spurs game, fouls havent really been an issue for him since he started getting some meaningful minutes. I don’t see it being an issue (I prefer him bodying up and drawing a foul than what WCS does) as typically he gets in foul trouble against guys that are much thicker and are using their size to their advantage (Plummer, Aldridge, Hernangomez, etc). He just needs to build up that muscle but I get the impression that he gets it. WCS on the other hand doesn’t get it or does but doesn’t feel like applying himself
 
I guess it’s been such a long time from us being a contender, that you don’t realize when a team isn’t using all of its weapons to pull out a win.

Denver definitely didn’t value this game as much as we did and it’s simple.. they have that luxury, just like we had the luxury of losing to some mediocre teams back during the adelman days. Especially when Malone could have cared less about being ejected, that told me how much they cared.
You are wrong and misguided. Maybe YOU could care less about winning “when you have the luxury of doing so” but I’m not ever paying to see NBA players who play with that attitude.
 
You are wrong and misguided. Maybe YOU could care less about winning “when you have the luxury of doing so” but I’m not ever paying to see NBA players who play with that attitude.
Misguided? You think Warriors would have 15 losses if they decided to put their best foot forward every game. You sir are delusional and simply unaware of how the NBA is now being managed as a marathon rather than a sprint
 
I am pissed because of dumb substitution. Never ever play Kosta please. This coach seems to obsess with Kosta for some reason. Why is Bagley sitting on the bench when he is the most athletic, the quickest fastest second jumper in the league?
He's obsessed with Kosta? Have you been watching the games? The last time he's seen consistent minutes was 2 months ago.
 
Outside of this game and the Spurs game, fouls havent really been an issue for him since he started getting some meaningful minutes. I don’t see it being an issue (I prefer him bodying up and drawing a foul than what WCS does) as typically he gets in foul trouble against guys that are much thicker and are using their size to their advantage (Plummer, Aldridge, Hernangomez, etc). He just needs to build up that muscle but I get the impression that he gets it. WCS on the other hand doesn’t get it or does but doesn’t feel like applying himself
I thought WCS played well especially considering he is a Sickle Cell carrier playing at altitude. I have seen other players not even travel.

I’m a huge Giles fan but the fact is Giles got pushed physically and over reacted and drew stupid fouls. He will get stronger and learn. But this game isn’t about WCS it’s about playing small ball with your only other rebounder at 41 minutes. Even Jokic played only 36.
 
Unfortunate loss, came out of the gates strong. Take our licks and move on past this one. We can ball with the top teams in the league. I'd back buddy to hit that last shot if he had another chance and could lock eyes on the rim
 
Just when he looked like he was getting the fouls under control he's back to being a bull in a china shop again. Makes me wonder had he played a little bit very late last year if that would have helped for this year. Giles really needs to learn what a foul is (and isn't) in the league. Right now pretty much any contact he makes is a foul.
I don’t think Giles is so stupid that he doesn’t realize taking both hands and shoving the opponent in the chest like he did will be a foul.

Giles needs to learn to keep his cool. In a game where WCS was limited by genetics, Bagley was too light and Kosta physically limited Giles hurt us. I think he gets there and I love his fire. He just has to control those emotions.
 
I disagree. The reason why Denver is a great rebounding squad is matchup based. Milsap kills traditional 4s. Teams have to put a Barnes type of player on him. That player is typically a weaker rebounder. Joker and the gaurds are great rebounders. What you are left with is Willie to deal with the joker one on one. Very few big man can handle it. Tonight Willie did ok.
I agree WCS did fine. I’m not blaming WCS. I haven’t seen a small ball lineup work for us all year and it’s really not going to work when Barnes is playing minutes 38,39,40 and 41 at 5,280 ft above see level. Especially when he played at a much slower pace all year. It was stupid and asking for trouble.
 
The problem with both of our young guys being so thin and lacking strength is that they get bullied and become serious liabilities against the big brutes, similar to when they got swallowed up against Whiteside and Adebayo the other night. It just feels like every time we have to face a burly frontcourt we're gonna be in trouble.

Koufos isn't a good counter to these big guys either. He's just not good enough, plain and simple. I've been happy with WCS' play as of late so I'm not gonna go there. He's been playing decent ball and he's our only sturdy big.

Playing small ball with Barnes at the 4 is fine for small stretches, but not for lengthy periods of time like tonight. He has strength, but not Paul Millsap strength. We need Bagley and Giles to bulk up really badly this summer. I wouldn't have minded seeing Swanigan get a few minutes tonight. He's got muscle and he's a good rebounder. Not sure if he was active, but this would've been a decent spot to play him maybe.

Does anyone have a before and after of Giles last year compared to this year? He doesn't look much bigger to me.
 
Misguided? You think Warriors would have 15 losses if they decided to put their best foot forward every game. You sir are delusional and simply unaware of how the NBA is now being managed as a marathon rather than a sprint
Yeah, misguided, because you’re okay with the idea of players not playing to win. I’m not under the illusion that they always give 100%, or can give 100%. But the way you’ve presented reality is unacceptable. If I saw it the way you saw it, I would no longer give a chit about basketball.
 
It’s not crushing but certainly a missed opportunity on a night the Nuggets shot 25.8% from 3. Kings only shot 34.4% with only Beli shooting a good percentage. Barnes, Buddy and Bogi shoot 6-21.

Hopefully Barnes, Bogi and Buddy get out of this mini slump from 3 or Joeger quits finishing games with all 3. Last 5 games:
Buddy 34.9
Bogi. 18.2
Barnes 30.8
 
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Denver sagged in the paint and let everyone except Buddy and Bogi shoot from the outside. Live by the 3 die by the 3.

They beat us on the inside with Millsaps, Jokic and even Plumlee. I think this needs to be acknowledged as much as our 3pt shooting numbers.
 
Yeah, misguided, because you’re okay with the idea of players not playing to win. I’m not under the illusion that they always give 100%, or can give 100%. But the way you’ve presented reality is unacceptable. If I saw it the way you saw it, I would no longer give a chit about basketball.
You have a reading comprehension issue
 
I don't think I watched the same game as many others. The officiating was dreadful. One of the worst I've seen all season.

How can the officials miss so many blatant travels and push offs right in front of them? I mean, Alec Burks gets called for a carry -- and it certainly was, but still almost never gets called and happened multiple other times in the game w/o a whistle -- but Paul Milsap can pick the ball up on the break late in the game and take several steps before passing the ball off right in front of the official? Also, the very next time Milsap doesn't push off when he drives to the basket in an effort to create space will be the 1st time.

Nikola Jokić might travel more often than James Harden, which is saying a lot. How many times does that guy shuffle his feet or leave his pivot foot to get to his spot and it is not called? Forget triple-doubles, the dude should have regular quadruple-doubles with double digit turnovers.

I'm not gonna list them all, but when the KINGS were trying to maintain their lead from late Q3 to mid-Q4, they were doomed by a stretch of obvious missed calls that just shouldn't happen. It changed the flow of the game and allowed Denver to create points that weren't otherwise there.
  • Q3 01:15 Plumlee wins jump ball; obvious violation stealing & redirecting the toss; resulted in 3 points
  • Q4 11:10 Milsap picks up dribble in transition & takes steps before passing off; obvious travel violation; resulted in 2 points
  • Q4 04:53 Jokić tips in his own missed shot; obvious 3 sec violation, as he possessed the ball for over 4 sec before shooting; resulted in 2 points
I know, I know, the KINGS got calls in the game too. But it sure didn't seem that way ... specifically down the stretch when it mattered most.

I agree with those questioning Coach Joerger's decision to insert Kosta Koufas late in the game. I also agree that the KINGS killed themselves per usual on the defensive boards. Though I thought a few got away from them due to push offs, but whatever. They still sucked at securing rebounds.

But none of that is going to cause me ignore the blatant missed calls. All of which occurred in plain view of an official and not one of them was subjective. They were as obvious as it can get and they helped cost this team a much needed W.

I remember being upset with the officiating a few times this season, but I don't recall being as consistently irked as I was tonight. I'm sure many of you disagree, but that's how I saw it.
 
I also add that tonight's performance strengthened my belief that not only is Denver not as good as some build them up to be, but that the KINGS are near their level and can beat them. While they are 0-3 now, the past 2 games could have gone either way. Denver is surely a more experienced and more consistent team right now, but the difference between the 2 isn't all that great IMO. Don't be surprised if the tide changes in this series as soon as next season. I still see Denver as a 2nd round at best team, and it's possible they go out in the 1st round depending on the match up.
 
Close game....short end of the stick...MUCH better than the Rockets debacle. They now NEED to beat the Warriors out of the break. This game was regrettably, winnable - Hield rushed his last look a hair.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
I also add that tonight's performance strengthened my belief that not only is Denver not as good as some build them up to be, but that the KINGS are near their level and can beat them. While they are 0-3 now, the past 2 games could have gone either way. Denver is surely a more experienced and more consistent team right now, but the difference between the 2 isn't all that great IMO. Don't be surprised if the tide changes in this series as soon as next season. I still see Denver as a 2nd round at best team, and it's possible they go out in the 1st round depending on the match up.
The addition of Barnes really elevates this team to another level. He's a full-sized SF who thus far seems capable of playing within our system, plays defense, rebounds, and can make shots (tonight's game excluded). Up until this point, we've run into a lot of trouble size-wise what with our lack of small forwards and lack of big men who aren't a couple of summers in the weight room away from being able to bang inside or have hands made of lead. And Harrison helps plug that hole by the simple virtue of existing.

Given more practice time (which we should get at the end of the all-star weekend), I think we'll see this team reach yet another level of competitiveness going forward.
 
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The addition of Barnes really elevates this team to another level. He's a full-sized SF who thus far seems capable of playing within our system, plays defense, rebounds, and can make shots (tonight's game excluded). Up until this point, we've run into a lot of trouble size-wise what with our lack of small forwards and lack of big men who aren't a couple of summers in the weight room away from being able to bang inside or have hands made of lead. And Harrison helps plug that hole by the simple virtue of existing.

Given more practice time (which we should get at the end of the all-star weekend), I think we'll see this team reach yet another level of competitiveness going forward.
Agreed. I know HB hasn't shot it well yet, but assume he will. I also like his ability to create plays for others. Right now, Willie is the only bulk minute guy that teams can sag off of and he can still make teams pay by cutting to the basket for lobs/dunks.
 
Very frustrating game. I watched the whole thing with the sound off, so I wasn't biased by any commentary at least, but didn't others feel that the officiating was pathetic? It's like the refs decided to let Denver get away with multiple travels, hooking (by Jokic), fouls just because Malone tore them a new one. That was a smart play by him because it worked. Refs were not impartial as far as I could tell, or else just sucked worse than usual.

That said, we could have won this regardless. Better decisions down the stretch would have helped. We have zero interior defense, no rim protection. Can't defend the post one-on-one. Can't rebound. We really struggle against big big guys. That loss left a sour taste in my mouth, it would have been a huge win for us.
 
They need Burks to handle the ball more and create and less of Bogi, he's a way better creator/ball handler than anyone in that 2nd unit yet Bagley/Giles/Bogi are the only ones that touch the ball when he's on the floor.

Burks played 7 minutes? What’s the point of even having that kind of depth if you won’t use it? Jesus
Whats the point of having him out there to watch Bagley iso and Bogi dribble the air out of the ball to take a tough fadeaway? We should have just kept Shumpert if they are going to have Burks play off the ball it makes zero sense. We have a legit talented player who can do something we badly need in a guy who can get to the rim and he never run's pick n roll or is given iso chances.....
 
The addition of Barnes really elevates this team to another level. He's a full-sized SF who thus far seems capable of playing within our system, plays defense, rebounds, and can make shots (tonight's game excluded). Up until this point, we've run into a lot of trouble size-wise what with our lack of small forwards and lack of big men who aren't a couple of summers in the weight room away from being able to bang inside or have hands made of lead. And Harrison helps plug that hole by the simple virtue of existing.

Given more practice time (which we should get at the end of the all-star weekend), I think we'll see this team reach yet another level of competitiveness going forward.
Yeah, Barnes is just a very good professional basketball player. He’s big, athhletic, strong in the paint, grinds on defense and makes the right reads on both ends of the floor. And he has a great attitude. He’s a coach’s dream—Barnes will be leading the team in minutes, rest assured.

Having said that, this was not a well coached game, IMO. Dave’s timeouts just felt off to me, for one. They mosty felt too early or too late. Bogi and Bjeli were clearly hyped to be playing Jokic—huge game back home, I’m sure—and neither really got the kind of run I would have liked to see. Bjeli got smoked by Millsap, but did we even try him on Jokic? I don’t think so, and would have been a solid option to slow Jokic down while maintaining offensive spacing on the other end.

As others have stated, the missing piece for us is a defensive big who can grab boards and maintain spacing to a decent degree—I’ll be monitoring the Draymond situation this summer. He’s not well liked here, but he would solve alot of our problems.