Kings Notes: Frontcourt mates working to shake rust

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Kings Notes: Frontcourt mates working to shake rust before season
By Sam Amick - Bee Staff Writer
Last Updated 12:26 am PDT Sunday, October 14, 2007
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C12


The potential is there.

A slimmer Brad Miller at center, next to a lengthy and active Mikki Moore in the paint. The combination gives the Kings scoring options down low and plenty of passing ability, albeit with the disclaimer that the wing players need to help rebound.

But the performance isn't matching the potential quite yet.

The pinpoint passes Miller is known for are a bit off target, while Moore has struggled to keep pace during some game action. The frontcourt duo had five turnovers apiece in the exhibition-opening win over Seattle on Tuesday, then combined for five more turnovers in Thursday's loss to Phoenix.

And while one would be hard pressed to wipe the smile off either player's face -- Miller because he's enjoying life without the 25 pounds he lost in the offseason and Moore because he's just the cheery type -- Kings coach Reggie Theus is looking for more. Like Rick Adelman and Eric Musselman before him, Theus will rely on Miller's passing skills but expects to see a refined version come November.

"On the court so far, he's moving well," Theus said. "I think his timing has not been very good. He's trying passes right now that are not there. He sees them, and they're not there. "Defensively, he's busting his (butt), really getting after it. He's trying to be in the right spots."

Miller disputes none of it -- the critique of himself or the 31-year-old Moore. The braided big man, who signed a three-year contract worth $17 million during the offseason, has been candid, admitting that the pressure that comes with his deal has been on his mind. He's tallied a combined seven points and five rebounds in 49 minutes.

"Once he gets his (darn) legs in normal shape, he'll be all right," Miller said. "He's an old guy like me. It takes us a while to get our legs underneath us on our shots and timing."

Theus said Moore's conditioning has been an issue.

"I think Mikki struggled the first two games, and I think his conditioning is average," Theus said. "Right now, I think part of his problem is he's tired. He's pressing. ... All of that comes from not being in the best condition possible. Some of that doesn't have anything to do with what he's done here, but with what he did before he got here this summer."

Greene Monster -- Ron Artest didn't know Orien Greene from local musician Jackie Greene.

But after two weeks as his teammate, he's his biggest fan.

"Just like I can guard the (shooting guard, small forward and power forward) spots, he can guard (point guard, shooting guard, and small forward)," Artest said. "He's got a chance to be even better than a good player. He could be very, very good, one of the best point guards in the league."

Greene, the third-year player signed in the offseason after stints in Boston and Orlando, has been as advertised thus far. The 6-foot-4, 208-pound Greene entered with a reputation as a defensive specialist, then drew praise from Kings point guard Mike Bibby for being able to handle Artest one-on-one. While the coaching staff wants continued improvement on offense, Greene's play on the other end may be enough to earn him a role on its own.

"I think he's headed down the right track -- I really do," Theus said of Greene. "I don't need him to show me his offense. I need him to knock down the open shot, pass it, and drive and kick. I don't need him seeking out his offense. I need him to concentrate on defense and pushing that damn ball down the floor."

Birthday banter -- Theus turned 50 Saturday, and his players celebrated with a song after practice.

The tune, of course, was a classic "Happy Birthday" rendition sung by the rookies, as ordered by the veterans.

Theus' response? "That was horrible," he said with a laugh. "Horrible."

About the writer: The Bee's Sam Amick can be reached at samick@sacbee.com.
 
"The 6-foot-4, 208-pound Greene entered with a reputation as a defensive specialist, then drew praise from Kings point guard Mike Bibby for being able to handle Artest one-on-one."

Show him the underlined part where he should sign.
 
Hopefully, we'll get to see more of Greene in the next pre-season game. I'm not sure, cause I've never followed him or seen him perform, but I heard that he needs to work on his shot. Is his shot that bad? Hopefully he'll be able to improve it if he makes the team.

I don't know about anybody else, but Moore kinda worries me. Maybe he just needs some time, I hope he conditions himself better if thats the problem.
 
I heard that he needs to work on his shot. Is his shot that bad?

During college, his FG % was in the mid-to-high 30s for 2 years, and the low-to-mid 40s for the other 2.

His NBA rookie year he shot .395, his second year .371, and so far he's been shooting .333 as a King.

It needs work.
 
During college, his FG % was in the mid-to-high 30s for 2 years, and the low-to-mid 40s for the other 2.

His NBA rookie year he shot .395, his second year .371, and so far he's been shooting .333 as a King.

It needs work.


so he was barely average on offense in college. That must mean his awesome on defense to even make it to the NBA with those numbers.
 
During college, his FG % was in the mid-to-high 30s for 2 years, and the low-to-mid 40s for the other 2.

His NBA rookie year he shot .395, his second year .371, and so far he's been shooting .333 as a King.

It needs work.

Thanks for the stats. Well then, I hope he improves his shot if he stays a King :D
 
so he was barely average on offense in college. That must mean his awesome on defense to even make it to the NBA with those numbers.


It generally does. But its also why 2 teams have taken a look and said no thanks after one year. And two teams without established major PGs at the time either.

I think the real question might not be the shooting, which is obviously pretty atrocious, but whether our Pacers friends are correct that he also has no ability to run a team. If its just shooting woes on offense, maybe/hopefully you find a way to live with that in echange for getting a nasty defender. But if it turns out not only can he not shoot, but he also can't create or run the team either...well then you are approaching the problematic point where the guy just can't play his position.

I've seen so little of him playing in the NBA, and paid so little attention when I did see him, that I don't really have an opinion on which way its going to go.
 
"The 6-foot-4, 208-pound Greene entered with a reputation as a defensive specialist, then drew praise from Kings point guard Mike Bibby for being able to handle Artest one-on-one."

Show him the underlined part where he should sign.

I absolutely agree. Seriously, defending that beast who has 40 pounds and three inches on you? What can he do to guards of his size then?
 
I've noticed Theus has called out a few players. How do you all feel about that?

If he goes too far that way I think he could have a short shelf life if he doesn't start keeping stuff in house. Or just become one of those vagabound coaches who wears out his welcome at each new stop in 3-4 years. George Karl used to do that. Larry Brown did it in New York. Guys with egos, or just guys with pride, generally aren't going to appreciate you running them down in the media. Its not playing fair.

But he picked a better target this time, and it was a cushioned blow -- notice how he disguised the swipe as a semi-defense. Mikki Moore is a career vagabound himself. A scrub made good. The only reason his NBA career has lasted this long is because he's always been the good soldier and been willing to absorb a variety of abuse with a smile. Doubt he'll ever cause a fuss. Potshotting Bibby or KT etc. through the media is a different animal. But this was just a little love tap.
 
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I've noticed Theus has called out a few players. How do you all feel about that?

I don't think he's saying anything publicly he hasn't already said privately and I have no problem with what he's said publicly so far.

Reggie is big on accountability and these guys are going to realize pretty quickly they're going to be held accountable for their weaknesses on the court.

And I don't think anything Reggie has said could be considered taking potshots. He's being open and honest and not telling us anything we (and the players involved) don't already know.
 
Greene is not going to be able to run the point and create like a Nash or Stockton or Kidd, etc. It's just not his game. He IS a hell of a defensive specialist though. As we can see with our other PG's, none of them fit that mold, but Bibby can score and run the pick and roll and Douby is going to be a version of Bobby Jackson. If Greene can play at the same time as Cisco or Salmons and our offense is run through our big guys as in the past, Greene has a role on our team. 8-10 minutes per game to come in and harass the other teams best scorer. I can see that happening.
 
If its just shooting woes on offense, maybe/hopefully you find a way to live with that in echange for getting a nasty defender. But if it turns out not only can he not shoot, but he also can't create or run the team either...well then you are approaching the problematic point where the guy just can't play his position.

If that's the case, you're approaching "Jason Hart" status
 
Hell, Eric Snow was able to stay in the league for how many years without being able to cash in on layups much less a midrange shot? At least we're not like the Calvs and were forced to start our defensive specialist for two seasons.
 
Hell, Eric Snow was able to stay in the league for how many years without being able to cash in on layups much less a midrange shot? At least we're not like the Calvs and were forced to start our defensive specialist for two seasons.


Snow is a classic example of the guy who can't shoot, but who CAN really run a team/be a PG. The concerns about Greene would be if the reports he does not see the floor/understand the game are accurate. (which as an aside they probably have been given how quickly he has been tossed aside by his previous employers -- just a question if he;s learnign or not).
 
Is Greene good enough to stop Kobe, Wade, Parker,. If so then he is useful no matter if he ever touches the ball on offense. If he can come in for 6 min or so when we play guys like that and stop them when they are on a hot streak then he is worth it. If he can't do that on defense along with his lack of offense then he is not needed.
 
Is Greene good enough to stop Kobe, Wade, Parker,. If so then he is useful no matter if he ever touches the ball on offense. If he can come in for 6 min or so when we play guys like that and stop them when they are on a hot streak then he is worth it. If he can't do that on defense along with his lack of offense then he is not needed.

How many guys can stop Kobe, Wade and Parker? How about just having a guy who can stop the Delonte West's, the Baron Davis', the Leandro Barbosa's of the league? I'm not opposed to having a defensive stopper like that.
 
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