Kings making Rudy available for trade?

[andjel]

Uh, he dropped a max deal on Wes Matthews, remember that whole thing? Then some signs pointed to Patrick Beverley and Corey Brewer as well. That's probably the 3 best wing defenders at their respective positions in the NBA the last few seasons. Rondo and Koufos were going on during that time but there was enough smoke to know that they were the fall back plan.

Do not forget Luc Richard.
Anderson is good defensive wing, just not elite and terrible at the offense.

I am not saying that Divac was not aware of that weakness, nor that it is not a weakness.

It is just weakness that on this board was ranked maybe 3rd or 4th in urgency, behind defensive big, any kind of 3rd guard and improved 3pt.

 

[Glenn]

That would be the only way to really knock him for not filling those roles. I was pretty disappointed when they didn't seal the deal with Matthews because the reality was there were no other options out there still available at that point to fill that role. HE didn't leave a weakness because there were no other realistic options available. And he even moved on to Brewer who decided to stay with Houston. If you want to blame Vlade, blame him for not getting that group of players to sign on the dotted line, but his actions show he had almost no choice but to leave that weakness as it was.

As for Anderson, he really is a good defender. If there is any question about this team and it's defense I think it should start with the question of why coach Karl hasn't played players like Acy, Willie, and Anderson more up to this point? He's been a much bigger detriment to the teams defensive abilities than Vlade has.

Acy and WCS bring energy and excitement to the team also. That's worth something and I think it isn't something Karl thinks of often. I'm not blaming Karl because in the heat of battle, you do what you always have done.

 

[Glenn]

Do not forget Luc Richard.
Anderson is good defensive wing, just not elite and terrible at the offense.

I am not saying that Divac was not aware of that weakness, nor that it is not a weakness.

It is just weakness that on this board was ranked maybe 3rd or 4th in urgency, behind defensive big, any kind of 3rd guard and improved 3pt.

Vlade was asked to do a lot with essentially no experience as a GM. I have hope he can tweak things in the next year or two. What Vlade has done, along with making VF21's heart pitter pat, is a great start and I am incredibly disappointed with the team so far. The blame certainly has to be Karl's and he wasn't Vlade's choice. I will stick to the position I have always taken and that is that this team is a tweak or two and a major change at coach to being a very good team. Please, let there not be any panicky short term moves.

We have the major pieces if Rondo stays.

I realize this is a "trade Rudy" thread and I would really be against that unless we get a significant upgrade - not likely.

 

[SacKings123]

Kings give up:
Rudy Gay
Ben mclemore
Caron butler

Magic give up:
Victor oladipo
Tobias Harris

Done deal. Let's do it. I'm over losing

 

[randymoss1881]

Kings give up:
Rudy Gay
Ben mclemore
Caron butler

Magic give up:
Victor oladipo
Tobias Harris

Done deal. Let's do it. I'm over losing

Magic won't give those 2 up for Gay not even on 2K but I feel you.

I'd do Gay/KK for Fournier/Fry/ LaL 2019 1st rd pick.
Fournier is 23 again 23 year old sharpshooter with elite size and shooting. And at this point trading Gay doesn't mean Rondo walks:
1. really how many teams are gonna scrap ther offense for him
2. With Conly a FA and Teague available that already takes 2 teams away.

Offense asian you sign and trade Marco or Ben for Barnes.

Rondo/Collison
Fournier/Ben
Barnes/Cassipi
WCS
boogie

 

[VF21]

I think you misread my post quite a bit.
Where did I make the impression, that I would think building a playoff team is easy?
I never said, that Vlade failed. I said he failed to adress wing defense. That's not disingenuous. It's a fact. He tried to sign Wes. Wes signed with Dallas. But Vlade couldn't recover and net us a serviceable defensive roleplayer for the wing.

Perhaps its a difference in usage of the term "failed to address"...

Vlade did address the issue of wing defense. He was just unable to resolve it. BIG difference.

 

[randymoss1881]

The insider guy on realgm might actually have sources. He was one of the first to have us shopping Gay and Belinelli and now he said last week that Boston would go after Howard after we crap on there offer

 

[Glenn]

Perhaps its a difference in usage of the term "failed to address"...

Vlade did address the issue of wing defense. He was just unable to resolve it. BIG difference.

Indeed. He went after Wes Matthews and couldn't get him. I don't know how Matthews season has gone and it doesn't matter. At the time of the negotiation Wes was known as a very good wing defender and we didn't get him. What position are we whining about the most now? Wing defender (or at least I'm the one whining. Vlade knows what he is doing far more than one could expect from a person who has never had this responsibility before. Vlade is the main reason I have faith in the future. I suspect he has a plan. It sure as hell doesn't include Karl.

Vlade had a massive job and now he can kick back a little and watch the team and be even more honed in on what the team needs for its first year at the new arena (which is going to be amazing, folks)

Remember who his first signing was? James Anderson. "Who," we said in unison. Anderson is not one to write home about but he is a top ten player on this team and he attempts to play defense. That was a clue. He also played in Europe which is Vlade's stomping ground and had the players he was most educated about. Now he should know the rest of the world. Go gettem' Vlade.

I can wait another year but my shelf life isn't much longer. If I can wait, ya'll can wait. I think big things are coming to the River City.

Oh, hell, here I go as I ramble... we have a solid core in Cuz, Rudy, Rondo, and WCS. I know I have been down on Rondo but I think if he is settled in with a nice contract here, he can focus better on more of a team game than piling up stats to get that next and last big contract. WCS may take a few years but it is more to learn the players he will defend then to work on defensive techniques. Perhaps other teams have a better top 4 but I am very satisfied with ours. We have accomplished the hard part as to players.

 

[hrdboild]

Indeed. He went after Wes Matthews and couldn't get him. I don't know how Matthews season has gone and it doesn't matter. At the time of the negotiation Wes was known as a very good wing defender and we didn't get him. What position are we whining about the most now? Wing defender (or at least I'm the one whining. Vlade knows what he is doing far more than one could expect from a person who has never had this responsibility before. Vlade is the main reason I have faith in the future. I suspect he has a plan. It sure as hell doesn't include Karl.

Vlade had a massive job and now he can kick back a little and watch the team and be even more honed in on what the team needs for its first year at the new arena (which is going to be amazing, folks)

Remember who his first signing was? James Anderson. "Who," we said in unison. Anderson is not one to write home about but he is a top ten player on this team and he attempts to play defense. That was a clue. He also played in Europe which is Vlade's stomping ground and had the players he was most educated about. Now he should know the rest of the world. Go gettem' Vlade.

I can wait another year but my shelf life isn't much longer. If I can wait, ya'll can wait. I think big things are coming to the River City.

Oh, hell, here I go as I ramble... we have a solid core in Cuz, Rudy, Rondo, and WCS. I know I have been down on Rondo but I think if he is settled in with a nice contract here, he can focus better on more of a team game than piling up stats to get that next and last big contract. WCS may take a few years but it is more to learn the players he will defend then to work on defensive techniques. Perhaps other teams have a better top 4 but I am very satisfied with ours. We have accomplished the hard part as to players.

A refreshing burst of optimism in dark times. Thanks Glenn!

 

[Glenn]

A refreshing burst of optimism in dark times. Thanks Glenn!

Thanks.

I think Vlade has started to put together a team he would want and not a team Karl would want. In other words, in the Karl/Boogie troubles, Vlade has from the start sided with Boogie.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Perhaps its a difference in usage of the term "failed to address"...

Vlade did address the issue of wing defense. He was just unable to resolve it. BIG difference.

You are right. I used the wrong words. Thanks for helping me out.

 

[bajaden]

Thanks.

I think Vlade has started to put together a team he would want and not a team Karl would want. In other words, in the Karl/Boogie troubles, Vlade has from the start sided with Boogie.

I agree with you. It's amazing to me how things can steamroll. Vlade went from trying to address our problem at SG, particularly defense by trying to sign Matthews, who opted for Dallas, to signing his fallback player in Belinelli, to not recognizing what our problem is on defense is. You don't always get the player you want, and I'm not sure how much blame you can attribute to Vlade, or any GM for that matter, when they fail to land the player of choice. From my perspective, Matthews was a reasonable goal. I don't think that Vlade set his sights too high. Unfortunately, Dallas got the nod. It happens all the time. At the time, landing Belinelli seemed like very nice alternative. A solid player coming from a solid, and successful organization. Hell, at the time, there were those that thought Matthews was a risky signing, and Belinelli a safer choice.

Well, Belinelli hasn't lived up to expectations, but is that Vlade's fault? The job doesn't come with a crystal ball. As Petrie said once, chemistry is an elusive thing. You know it when you have it, and you know when you don't, and you have no idea how to obtain it. In other words, making the right choices is important, but there's also an element of luck to the process. I think the New York Knick's have proven that just signing a bunch of superstars doesn't equal a championship. The Lakers proved that adding a Dwight Howard to a talented team with Kobe, doesn't make you a champion. Putting a winning team together is tricky. The whole should be better than the sum of it's parts. All too often, what looks good on paper doesn't look so good on the floor. So far, that appears to be the case this season.

 

[Entity]

I agree with you. It's amazing to me how things can steamroll. Vlade went from trying to address our problem at SG, particularly defense by trying to sign Matthews, who opted for Dallas, to signing his fallback player in Belinelli, to not recognizing what our problem is on defense is. You don't always get the player you want, and I'm not sure how much blame you can attribute to Vlade, or any GM for that matter, when they fail to land the player of choice. From my perspective, Matthews was a reasonable goal. I don't think that Vlade set his sights too high. Unfortunately, Dallas got the nod. It happens all the time. At the time, landing Belinelli seemed like very nice alternative. A solid player coming from a solid, and successful organization. Hell, at the time, there were those that thought Matthews was a risky signing, and Belinelli a safer choice.

Well, Belinelli hasn't lived up to expectations, but is that Vlade's fault? The job doesn't come with a crystal ball. As Petrie said once, chemistry is an elusive thing. You know it when you have it, and you know when you don't, and you have no idea how to obtain it. In other words, making the right choices is important, but there's also an element of luck to the process. I think the New York Knick's have proven that just signing a bunch of superstars doesn't equal a championship. The Lakers proved that adding a Dwight Howard to a talented team with Kobe, doesn't make you a champion. Putting a winning team together is tricky. The whole should be better than the sum of it's parts. All too often, what looks good on paper doesn't look so good on the floor. So far, that appears to be the case this season.

example. the trade of Doug Christie for Cutino Mobley.

 

[alden.viado]

This is a win win win for all three teams

Sac:
R.Anderson (nop)
PJ Tucker (pho)

Nop:
R.Gay (sac)
M.Morris (pho)

Pho:
E.Gordon (nop)
E.Moreland or Q.Acy (sac)

Everyone wins.

Send this to Vlade!

 

[ParniValjak]

With orlando listening to calls on Harris, I wouldn't be surprised if Harris for Rudy framework of the deal gets discussed but not necessarily done!