Kings making Rudy available for trade?
- Thread starter Bosnian Diehard
- Start date
Being able to win without someone doesn't necessarily mean the team is better off without the guy. Sure the Warriors can still win games when Draymond is out injured but they're a better team with him on the roster.
The Kings missed Rudy tonight if only because him being out allowed George Karl to resort to the Kosta/Casspi/Marco/Darren/Rondo line-up of doom for a span in the second quarter.
The Kings missed Rudy tonight if only because him being out allowed George Karl to resort to the Kosta/Casspi/Marco/Darren/Rondo line-up of doom for a span in the second quarter.
K
I don't get how we struggled we played a veteran team that's owned us (with Rudy Gay/Tyreke Evans/Isaiah Thomas)and outplayed them for the majority of the game. Hawks always bottle up Cuz he's struggled big time even with other scoring options the Hawks have been a nightmare match up cause of there ball movement and hustle and we flipped the tables on them.
While Rudy as of late has been better I can't say having him would have helped us today where we won with grit and hustle that Casspi brings more off and Ben without Rudy there didn't back down.
While Rudy as of late has been better I can't say having him would have helped us today where we won with grit and hustle that Casspi brings more off and Ben without Rudy there didn't back down.
More than one thing can be true at the same time. Rudy is our 2nd most offensive talented player. He can get his shot whenever. One of the best SF in the game. He takes pressure off of Cuz and is a good teammate from what I understand. We are a more talented team with him.
At the same time, as I've mentioned before, the ball moves better and other players step up when he's not in the lineup. Maybe we're not a 110 ppg scoring team when he's not on the floor. But that's obviously not the key to beating teams like ATL.
I'm not actively wishing for a Rudy trade. I'd like some stability and moving him is a big shakeup. However, I can see an argument both ways.
At the same time, as I've mentioned before, the ball moves better and other players step up when he's not in the lineup. Maybe we're not a 110 ppg scoring team when he's not on the floor. But that's obviously not the key to beating teams like ATL.
I'm not actively wishing for a Rudy trade. I'd like some stability and moving him is a big shakeup. However, I can see an argument both ways.
The genesis of this thread stems from:
If last night was an indicator of BMc finally (finally?) "flipping the switch", then using Gay as a bargaining chip to bring back some value at the SG position isn't as much of a necessity. We'd no longer be robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak. That doesn't necessarily mean we still don't need to strengthen the position, but it does mean that things aren't as dire as they were before...in theory.
On 2:
Again, if recent trends are an indicator, it looks like WCS might have finally "earned" his starting spot at the 4, having had meaningful minutes at the position as well as in the rotation to be able to slide back Gay into the SF position, where he brings the greatest value to this team. Playing Gay at the 4 does very little for us, and for him.
Maybe we should pump the brakes on moving Gay. This team is more successful on both ends of the court when regular sized rotations and lineups are used. Maybe Karl is realizing it as well. We still do need some tinkering, but I wouldn't look to replace a major cog right now. Again, most of this is based on recent trends. Had we lost the last two or looked bad in winning, we might be having a different conversation, but for right now, things are looking #kangzy.
- Ben McLemore not being a serviceable starter, and
- Gay playing the PF position
If last night was an indicator of BMc finally (finally?) "flipping the switch", then using Gay as a bargaining chip to bring back some value at the SG position isn't as much of a necessity. We'd no longer be robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak. That doesn't necessarily mean we still don't need to strengthen the position, but it does mean that things aren't as dire as they were before...in theory.
On 2:
Again, if recent trends are an indicator, it looks like WCS might have finally "earned" his starting spot at the 4, having had meaningful minutes at the position as well as in the rotation to be able to slide back Gay into the SF position, where he brings the greatest value to this team. Playing Gay at the 4 does very little for us, and for him.
Maybe we should pump the brakes on moving Gay. This team is more successful on both ends of the court when regular sized rotations and lineups are used. Maybe Karl is realizing it as well. We still do need some tinkering, but I wouldn't look to replace a major cog right now. Again, most of this is based on recent trends. Had we lost the last two or looked bad in winning, we might be having a different conversation, but for right now, things are looking #kangzy.
I agree. If Ben is FINALLY turning a corner then that takes some pressure off having to find a consistent, serviceable SG who can hit open shots and play defense. Ben has been somewhat disappointing this season but honestly it's been Belinelli looking so bad that has really exacerbated the SG issue. I'm at the point where if Ben is the first starter to sub out I'd rather see Casspi come in and Gay shift to the SG. He's far better defending SGs than Belinelli and I like the idea of that big lineup.
One thing is for sure - Cauley-Stein is the great fit next to Boogie that most of us hoped he would be. His lack of shooting/offense is becoming less of an issue by the game as he finds ways to get himself in good position for easy points. And his rebounding has been better than expected while still being a difference maker on the defensive end. I love watching him play.
I think if there is a trade to be made Collison and Belinelli should be the pieces being dangled. DC is a much better player than Seth Curry but the latter is probably a better fit next to Rondo in small ball lineups as an off the ball scorer and he's also a nice change of pace as a backup PG. I don't like that it's come to this because I thought Collison was fantastic last season but he might be the best trade chip in terms of trying to improve the team. I'm not sure that Marco has any trade value but he's been the biggest disappointment so far this season. Too bad because on paper he filled a couple valuable roles as a shooter and secondary ballhandler, not to mention veteran from a championship team.
In short, things seem to be going pretty well - no reason to break up the team. If there's any trade it should be to retool and shore up some weaknesses.
One thing is for sure - Cauley-Stein is the great fit next to Boogie that most of us hoped he would be. His lack of shooting/offense is becoming less of an issue by the game as he finds ways to get himself in good position for easy points. And his rebounding has been better than expected while still being a difference maker on the defensive end. I love watching him play.
I think if there is a trade to be made Collison and Belinelli should be the pieces being dangled. DC is a much better player than Seth Curry but the latter is probably a better fit next to Rondo in small ball lineups as an off the ball scorer and he's also a nice change of pace as a backup PG. I don't like that it's come to this because I thought Collison was fantastic last season but he might be the best trade chip in terms of trying to improve the team. I'm not sure that Marco has any trade value but he's been the biggest disappointment so far this season. Too bad because on paper he filled a couple valuable roles as a shooter and secondary ballhandler, not to mention veteran from a championship team.
In short, things seem to be going pretty well - no reason to break up the team. If there's any trade it should be to retool and shore up some weaknesses.
I'm not down for trading Rudy becuase when the playoffs hit us, We're gonna need that scorer who can go out and get a bucket for us. I'm not even expecting a big trade this year. DC is a solid backup, Marco can hit big shots, 2k is the perfect big off the bench, if anything we gotta wait till free agency in the next summer for more talent (Ryan Anderson)
Anybody watched Memphis in the playoffs recently? Jeff green couldn't buy a bucket and I kept thinking what if they had Rudy
Anybody watched Memphis in the playoffs recently? Jeff green couldn't buy a bucket and I kept thinking what if they had Rudy
When you say other players step up, it's a lot easier to step up for a few games than it is to fill the need on a permanent basis. This team has bled talent for years. It's time for the bleeding to stop and for us to add to the talent pool and not substract from it. One thing Divac did very well in the offseason is to add to the talent pool and not substract from it.
That's won't happen this year. Likely ever, but certainly not midseason this year.
Iggy was an outsider coming in at the end of his productive career. Rudy's a core guy probably still fully capable of averaging 20ppg in the right situation. You might, if you had just the right player, be able to convince a major player still in their prime to come off the bench to go win a title. You aren't going to convince them to go win an 8th seed.
We've run off these games without Rudy, but the workload on Boogie has been enormous to do so. If anything they've made a pretty good argument why he's important just to give us an alternative to goto.
Iggy was an outsider coming in at the end of his productive career. Rudy's a core guy probably still fully capable of averaging 20ppg in the right situation. You might, if you had just the right player, be able to convince a major player still in their prime to come off the bench to go win a title. You aren't going to convince them to go win an 8th seed.
We've run off these games without Rudy, but the workload on Boogie has been enormous to do so. If anything they've made a pretty good argument why he's important just to give us an alternative to goto.
To realistically push for the 6th or 5th seed, Rudy is going to have to step up and be that second reliable scoring option.
I don't see Omri, Marco, or Ben being able to step up against serious competition at the same time providing enough defense and rebounding like Rudy can when he is engaged and giving effort.
I really hope Rudy comes back committed to defense and tough-nose, stick-it-to-them basketball, because
a) Rudy's the kind of player the Kings need to make it to a higher seed
and
b) It would be really neat, fun, cool, awesome if Rudy joined the ride to playoff success along with the other guys. It juts doesn't seem right, or whole, without Rudy stepping up as well.
I don't see Omri, Marco, or Ben being able to step up against serious competition at the same time providing enough defense and rebounding like Rudy can when he is engaged and giving effort.
I really hope Rudy comes back committed to defense and tough-nose, stick-it-to-them basketball, because
a) Rudy's the kind of player the Kings need to make it to a higher seed
and
b) It would be really neat, fun, cool, awesome if Rudy joined the ride to playoff success along with the other guys. It juts doesn't seem right, or whole, without Rudy stepping up as well.
Iirc, George has been taking Rudy out first as a sub, so that he can come back and help with the second unit. We DID have Rudy for the first 3 wins of this streak. If anything, I thought that Casspi's game took a hit when Rudy went out. I think that WCS keeps those minutes he's been getting while reducing the Casspi and slightly the Gay minutes. Would be phenomenal if they used Casspi or Gay at the 2 for small stretches.
I have my doubts as to whether Casspi or Gay have the speed and agility to defend the 2 though. That's (potentially) a lot more running through screens. Depends on the matchup. I sure as hell wouldn't want them trying to chase JJ Redick around, for example. For guys that have the ball in their hands more like Harden/ Kobe it's not such an issue.
I understand peoples qualms about Gay but I feel that we should keep him. Trade a guy that brought Rondo? That's how we show our appreciation? Plus I dont think Vlade is that type of person. We havent even had a year with this team yet. Lets see what kind of chemistry they can build first. And is it just me or has Caspi been playing much worse ever since Gay got injured. The Caspi/Gay combo.has been destroying everybody because they cant defend it. It's not time for a change, it's time to sit on the edge of our seats and finally watch some friggin basketball after all these years!
#KANGZ
ARCO LOUD ONE MORE TIME
#KANGZ
ARCO LOUD ONE MORE TIME
Last edited:
Rudy was actually settling into a nice role prior top his injury.
He was scoring his usual 18ish per game, but it was very quiet. He wasn't really forcing anything.
He's also been putting a bit more effort into defense lately. He had that six block game before his injury. He still leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to perimeter D, but you can say that about anyone on this team (well, maybe not WCS).
As a guy who usually has nothing but mean things to say about Rudy, at this point, I want us to keep rolling with him. The team as a whole seems to have stabilized. A Rudy who doesn't need to force the issue, and does more than score, is an asset to the team, and probably better than anything we could get back.
He was scoring his usual 18ish per game, but it was very quiet. He wasn't really forcing anything.
He's also been putting a bit more effort into defense lately. He had that six block game before his injury. He still leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to perimeter D, but you can say that about anyone on this team (well, maybe not WCS).
As a guy who usually has nothing but mean things to say about Rudy, at this point, I want us to keep rolling with him. The team as a whole seems to have stabilized. A Rudy who doesn't need to force the issue, and does more than score, is an asset to the team, and probably better than anything we could get back.
My approach to this whole thing is, show me the trade and I'll say yes or no. So far, were having an abstract discussion. I've heard a few names thrown around, but no real trade has been presented. Would I trade Gay? Sure, depending on who were trading him for. Do I think that Gay is a perfect fit on the Kings right now? No, I don't, but he's still better than any of the options I've heard presented, other than Melo, who the Knicks won't trade, and I'm not sure is a better fit than Gay.
Whether we'd be better without him than with him (addition by subtraction), is an unknown. It worked for Toronto, but every situation is different. One game doesn't mean we can win on a regular basis without Gay, no more than winning a game without Cuz does. Players like Gay don't grow on trees. Finding a player of equal ability, that another team is willing to trade, that also fits, isn't that easy. There's usually compromise involved, and you want to be sure your on the right side of that compromise. The other option is to break up Gay's ability into equal parts in return. In other words, Gay equals a couple of talented players in return. Similar to the trade we made with Toronto. That's always a dangerous trade. There's a reason Gay is an upper level player, and those your trading for aren't. Your betting on the whole being better than the sum of its parts. Not sure I'm willing to take that gamble.
Whether we'd be better without him than with him (addition by subtraction), is an unknown. It worked for Toronto, but every situation is different. One game doesn't mean we can win on a regular basis without Gay, no more than winning a game without Cuz does. Players like Gay don't grow on trees. Finding a player of equal ability, that another team is willing to trade, that also fits, isn't that easy. There's usually compromise involved, and you want to be sure your on the right side of that compromise. The other option is to break up Gay's ability into equal parts in return. In other words, Gay equals a couple of talented players in return. Similar to the trade we made with Toronto. That's always a dangerous trade. There's a reason Gay is an upper level player, and those your trading for aren't. Your betting on the whole being better than the sum of its parts. Not sure I'm willing to take that gamble.
