[Game] Kings @ Knicks- 4/4/2024 - 4:30PM PST/7:30PM EST (TNT)
- Thread starter QWERTYLICIOUS
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BenchMob
Bench
Well said
I'm not against the idea of adding another scorer, I just think that we need an interior defensive presence more in the starting lineup. I don't want to see Keegan forced into the same smallball PF role that Harrison Barnes has been playing for his whole career. Which leads me to conclude that any additional 15-20ppg scorer would have to replace Malik Monk in the sixth man role (who might have priced himself out of returning anyway).
Fair points. Letting teams off the hook in the middle quarters when a solid 10 minutes of consistent pressure (on both ends) would probably break the game wide open in our favor has been a franchise speciality for as long as I can remember. And it does feel like its been particularly bad this season.
megapoxy
Starter
Refs were awful, helped the Knicks bounced back and mentally screwed the game. DDV at one point intentionally pushed Sabonis in a fast break (both hands in the middle of Domas body) and no call was given. Also same thing whenever grabbing the board Hart getting on the rebounders hands. For the one that asked Hart and Hartenstein on the Kings, they would barely last a quarter with all the fouls called on them, no doubt. Hartenstein was awesome as a creator, many assists when he was inside the paint, outplayed Sabonis in offense creation. Hartenstein 9 assists 0 turnovers, Domas 7 assists 4 turnovers.
HB, my oh my, i am not a hater, but he can't keep getting away with it because he has this run of consecutive matches as starter. When he is bad he is reaaaaaaally bad, and several times he tried to go ISO holding the ball for quite much time just to give it away 2-3 seconds before the time expires. This is not even shown to his statsheet with the 0 points 1 rebound 1 steal and 3 turnovers, not to mention his defense that was against subpar by the "best defender on the team" as he was called at the beginning of the season. Let him ride his bicycle more, he is more effective in that. Is there another starter on a team going for the play offs/in that had so many games of "cardio"? Or any other getting 15+ mln/per year? He is the weakest link in physical matchups, was also the weakest link in the series vs Warriors he doesn't "match" the model of the defense that MB wants the team to play. Still he is glued to the lineup, even if Kings were to rest the whole starting unit, HB will be there starting the match.
Considering the way they played him, zero calls given the whole time, Fox was amazing. He wasn't getting calls when going to the rim so he was forced to shoot 3s making many of them. Sabonis was not at the same level but it was harder for him cause he doesn't have the option to take shots from distance and he was getting hammered inside the paint.
MB again let his team lose a 20+ point lead, took a timeout at one point with the lead at 16 I think, less than 2 minutes later the gap was at single digits (in the middle of 2nd quarter). Kessler and Duarte played for a while, could contribute more with Keegan on foul trouble and HB ghosting. Apart from those 2 airballs 3s Sasha played well and on defense as well.
HB, my oh my, i am not a hater, but he can't keep getting away with it because he has this run of consecutive matches as starter. When he is bad he is reaaaaaaally bad, and several times he tried to go ISO holding the ball for quite much time just to give it away 2-3 seconds before the time expires. This is not even shown to his statsheet with the 0 points 1 rebound 1 steal and 3 turnovers, not to mention his defense that was against subpar by the "best defender on the team" as he was called at the beginning of the season. Let him ride his bicycle more, he is more effective in that. Is there another starter on a team going for the play offs/in that had so many games of "cardio"? Or any other getting 15+ mln/per year? He is the weakest link in physical matchups, was also the weakest link in the series vs Warriors he doesn't "match" the model of the defense that MB wants the team to play. Still he is glued to the lineup, even if Kings were to rest the whole starting unit, HB will be there starting the match.
Considering the way they played him, zero calls given the whole time, Fox was amazing. He wasn't getting calls when going to the rim so he was forced to shoot 3s making many of them. Sabonis was not at the same level but it was harder for him cause he doesn't have the option to take shots from distance and he was getting hammered inside the paint.
MB again let his team lose a 20+ point lead, took a timeout at one point with the lead at 16 I think, less than 2 minutes later the gap was at single digits (in the middle of 2nd quarter). Kessler and Duarte played for a while, could contribute more with Keegan on foul trouble and HB ghosting. Apart from those 2 airballs 3s Sasha played well and on defense as well.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
I just rewatched the 2nd half. There were no uncalled fouls I saw other than maybe a no-call on a Divencenco block on Fox with 4 mins left (he hit his arm after he released the ball so don’t think it was). Plain and simple, Knicks beat us up on both sides. We tried to trap Brunson and literally they scored each time we tried it. On the offensive end, when we got a lane, we would pass out for a 3. There was a time in the 3rd when Lyles had a lane, Hart closed out, and Trey proceeds to stop his dribble and pass out. I mean you have 5 inches on Hart, take that up strong.
What Knicks do really well that we don’t is go downhill, with no hesitation, and absorb whatever contact they got. It’s apparent Brunson learned a ton playing with Luka.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
the ultimate poison pill of the 2023-2024 season
fansinceday1
Starter
Heh. I was seriously bummed that I had to miss the 2nd half and go look at land with the fiancé. Saved me from some serious indigestion……….
Stan.Helsing
G-League
If you want, I will volunteer to go look at land with your fiancé the next time. Heh.
captain bill
All-Star
We came out hot and evaporated right around when the A's news was getting confirmed. Hopefully we didn't invite another curse on this franchise
megapoxy
Starter
MB kind of implied that lack of foul calls were responsible for the defeat by saying "i have to teach my guys better how to get fouls drawn", and for once emphasized that we didn't take enough 3s, saying that there should have been more than 50 rather than 42.
I don't get his obsession with 3s though and this wasn't the first time the Kings shot well in the 1st quarter and then were bad in the remaining 3s losing the match. Happened vs Pelicans too, at Phoenix
When Fox was told by the reporters about the "gamesmanship" (no idea what that word means) to learn how to get to the line more often, he told that when they attack the rim they focus on making the shot and not to draw the foul, telling that sometimes the refs don't whistle the foul and "it is what it is" something I assume he knows well playing for the Kings for so many years.
Wasn't mentioned anywhere in the post game interviews, but in March there was a record low 19.7 free throws attempts for a team per game BUT somehow Kings opponents were shooting 20+ free throws per match themselves in most of the matches.
@ MIN 24/32 (Kings shot 13/24)
vs CHI 18/22 (Kings shot 16/18)
@ LAL 21/25 (Kings shot 10/12)
vs SAS 21/21 (Kings shot 17/18)
vs HOU 22/27 (Kings shot 20/23)
vs MIL 27/35 (Kings shot 13/16)
vs LAL 17/22 (Kings shot 9/12)
and so on...
The Kings are 20th in free throws attempts per game and 24th in opponents free throw attempts with 21 for the Kings and 23.4 attempts for our opponents. Last season that the league wasn't prepared for us to be competitive Kings had the 3rd best free throw differential behind the Lakers (that are historically #1 I wonder why) and the Heat, this season we are dead last in free throws made having a "negative" differential as well. I guess T-Davis and Metu's departure made the difference...
Of course the Kings could have won some "easy" matches and be in a much better place in the league table BUT the non calls against mostly Fox and Domas when they attack the rim have been crucial especially since Kings are not allowed to do the same when they guard All Stars like Doncic and Brunson that look to initiate contact even unlike what our last years All Stars do.
I don't get his obsession with 3s though and this wasn't the first time the Kings shot well in the 1st quarter and then were bad in the remaining 3s losing the match. Happened vs Pelicans too, at Phoenix
When Fox was told by the reporters about the "gamesmanship" (no idea what that word means) to learn how to get to the line more often, he told that when they attack the rim they focus on making the shot and not to draw the foul, telling that sometimes the refs don't whistle the foul and "it is what it is" something I assume he knows well playing for the Kings for so many years.
Wasn't mentioned anywhere in the post game interviews, but in March there was a record low 19.7 free throws attempts for a team per game BUT somehow Kings opponents were shooting 20+ free throws per match themselves in most of the matches.
@ MIN 24/32 (Kings shot 13/24)
vs CHI 18/22 (Kings shot 16/18)
@ LAL 21/25 (Kings shot 10/12)
vs SAS 21/21 (Kings shot 17/18)
vs HOU 22/27 (Kings shot 20/23)
vs MIL 27/35 (Kings shot 13/16)
vs LAL 17/22 (Kings shot 9/12)
and so on...
The Kings are 20th in free throws attempts per game and 24th in opponents free throw attempts with 21 for the Kings and 23.4 attempts for our opponents. Last season that the league wasn't prepared for us to be competitive Kings had the 3rd best free throw differential behind the Lakers (that are historically #1 I wonder why) and the Heat, this season we are dead last in free throws made having a "negative" differential as well. I guess T-Davis and Metu's departure made the difference...
Of course the Kings could have won some "easy" matches and be in a much better place in the league table BUT the non calls against mostly Fox and Domas when they attack the rim have been crucial especially since Kings are not allowed to do the same when they guard All Stars like Doncic and Brunson that look to initiate contact even unlike what our last years All Stars do.
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Caccia
Starter
Ah, well. You have to hand it to Tom Thibodeau, he made some excellent halftime offensive adjustments.
The Effort Police
Starter
Still, though, it would mean being a 47 win 9th seed and that's just frustrating. That's happened before and usually to the Suns, but this is the first time I've seen a 45 win 10th seed and a .500 11th seed.
That's stupid and ridiculous and I hate the East.
The Effort Police
Starter
I say stack 3/D, except for of course the franchise players in Fox and Sabonis, and the much needed bench creation from Monk.
We have Ellis, and we have Keegan. That's two more 3/D guys we had than at the end of the last year.
Kings can maintain their floor going into next season with Barnes, but they really need to add that starting F that shoots good enough and defends better than him.
Huerter's not going to cut it even off the bench and the Sasha experiment is not going to cut it.
serbiangoat
Starter
Call me crazy but I think the Kings could really use Grant Williams next season even with some of the stuff that's gone on with him in Dallas, his toughness/defense and at times ability to hit 3's will help and he's played very well for a bad Hornets team. Huerter for Williams is a fair deal.
TaxMan
Starter
This team is critically missing toughness. I don’t mean necessarily a cheap shot artist, but need someone to push back with physicality and attitude when we are getting punked. Yes, I know Lyles put Lopez in a chokehold last year, but that seemed like a strange out of body experience vs. who he really is.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
I think part of the free throw discrepancy vs last year is a philosophical change. We as a team are shooting a higher % of 3s. Fox is shooting almost 3 3s more per game than last year.
If you look at individual FTA differences, they’re mostly the same with 1 major exception, HB. He’s shooting almost 3 less attempts, which again goes back to more of a focus on 3s than posting him up or isolating him.
I too am not a fan of the approach, especially with the big momentum changes it brings when we’re cold. But there has to be an organizational reason why we’re doing this. Maybe this is an approach to preserve the health and durability of the team during the season is all I can think of. Then maybe we shift gears in the post season
megapoxy
Starter
Speaking of traveling... i read somewhere on twitter in the morning... Kings will have to travel from NY to Boston and then go back to New York to face the Nets. Doesn't really make much sense going back and forth, would be more normal to play Brooklyn next back to back and then head to Boston. Usually when teams from the East come to the West they play the Lakers and the Clippers on back to back matches and usually they have a whole California tour facing Kings and Warriors after. Traveling to the East (I am not so familiar with US geography) it seems the teams that are close to each other are the two Florida ones and Knicks/Nets.
And a bit off topic... yesterday TNT announcers (can't tell who is who from their voice) were totally clueless. They mentioned Kings won 4 of their last 5 on the road with one of the wins against Miami(!!!), they were clearly rooting for the Knicks, cheering in their baskets and were mentioning some weird stats that didn't make much sense. I was skipping the non playing time moments (saw it with delay) to avoid listening them even more. We used to root for "national TV matches" but I hate it each time not having the option to listen to Kings announcers since the so called "neutral" are never neutral. The match at Boston again on "national TV", which also brings bad luck somehow this season, unless facing the Lakers.
BenchMob
Bench
As a fan I am mentally worn out. I am sure the team is too to some extent! I'm looking forward to what they can do in the play-in but admit looking ahead to the summer and hopefully seeing what moves we can do to improve the team.
Srzly
G-League
I love Mike Brown, but this loss is on the coaching staff.
The doubling/blitzing every possession without any success and continuing to do it was just baffling.
It put all of our defenders in scramble mode on every single possession and they were getting easy bucket after easy bucket. It completely wore out our players and it was no wonder our outside shots stopped falling.
As a side note: what does Fox or Sabonis have to do to get the superstar calls that guys like Brunson get? The officials don’t let you play good defense on those players. The choices are: A. Give him room to shoot and score with conservative contests or B. Give him free throws.
Not the reason we lost though—that’s completely on the terrible defensive game plan.
P.S. - I say ditch the expectations and just enjoy the games. I know I’m going to be sad when the season is over.
The doubling/blitzing every possession without any success and continuing to do it was just baffling.
It put all of our defenders in scramble mode on every single possession and they were getting easy bucket after easy bucket. It completely wore out our players and it was no wonder our outside shots stopped falling.
As a side note: what does Fox or Sabonis have to do to get the superstar calls that guys like Brunson get? The officials don’t let you play good defense on those players. The choices are: A. Give him room to shoot and score with conservative contests or B. Give him free throws.
Not the reason we lost though—that’s completely on the terrible defensive game plan.
P.S. - I say ditch the expectations and just enjoy the games. I know I’m going to be sad when the season is over.
BenchMob
Bench
What would help in situations where Domas is ganged up in the paint so much? He seems the only one in the paint and taking a beating, concerned about this long term. Would a 4 to create his own shot or assist down low help or is it a matter of the other team daring them to take outside shots and packing the paint?
Caccia
Starter
I want to see Sabonis and Len on the court for 3-5 minutes at a time, just to give the other team a different look, especially when the Kings have a good lead.
Jones2006
Bench
Agreed. I'm not saying this is THE solution, but it's really dumb they haven't even given this an extended look this season. All I remember was like 3 minutes in a Bucks game earlier on. Len doesn't even have to shoot 3's for it to work in my opinion - Both Len/Sabonis are good at the dribble-hand offs, so if Len is left wide open on the perimeter, just kick it out to him, have Len set a pick for a shooter & dribble hand off to him for a wide open 3'. The rebounding/pick setting/toughness would be an interesting look.
Tizzy Flip
Starter
If you watched the 2nd half yesterday, they actually played Sabonis straight up with Hartenstein. He couldn’t get much room against him and so he often resorted to some 8ft left hooks or passed out for a trey. When he’s in the post, he mostly goes to his left and the Knicks did a good job defending it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like he trusts his right hand or right side, so teams don’t have to respect it. When teams have the personnel to shut down our penetration like the Knicks do, it does force us to resort to 3s since we don’t have much low post options. This is what we miss most with Monk. We also need Keegan to become a big iso threat next year, otherwise we’ll keep living and dying by the 3
twslam07
All-Star
The blitzing/double teaming of Brunson was extremely frustrating. You have 3 good guard defenders in Fox, Ellis, and Mitchell. Trust your good defenders to make his life difficult. Willingly submitting to a 4 vs. 3 possession after possession just makes no sense (especially when the Knicks have good secondary passers/ball handlers in DiVincenzo, Hart, Hartenstein, etc.). You even have Murray as a 4th option to throw at Brunson if you want to some extra length on him. Wasn’t a fan of that defensive game plan at all.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I think that Murray is an ISO threat right now, if they would commit to using him in the post against favorable match ups. Brown just hasn't allowed him to do it, even after Murray told him he's good there
Yeah, this has been frustrating me all year too. And against this version of the Knicks in particular it's an especially bad defensive game plan. Thibs has been playing 4 guard lineups while Julius Randle is injured -- driving and kicking for open shots is exactly how they want to beat you. Over helping on those Knicks guards is playing into their offensive game plan not disrupting it.
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