Kings' impatient 'O' hurts the 'D'

[LMM]

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/11803469p-12691236c.html

Kings' impatient 'O' hurts the 'D'



By Martin McNeal -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PST Saturday, December 18, 2004

Talent, skill or confidence can be a plus or a curse, depending upon how it is used.



Those traits at the offensive end of the floor have helped the Kings to one of the league's top records this season. An abundance of confidence also contributed to that 115-99 whipping the Kings were handed Thursday night by the Los Angeles Lakers.



The film of that contest, Kings coach Rick Adelman said, is an invaluable teaching tool. And it was the offense the Kings' coaching staff showed the team Friday morning with two days off before returning to Arco Arena on Sunday evening to face the New Orleans Hornets.

Adelman insists his team's offense strongly affects its defense. Of course, that can work both ways. When the Kings play as poorly on defense as they did against the Lakers, that can promote the quick-shot, get-back, impatient mentality that scuttles offensive teamwork.

Center Brad Miller admits the same confidence that allows shooters such as himself, Peja Stojakovic, Chris Webber, Mike Bibby, Doug Christie and Bobby Jackson to eschew the offensive framework that can turn them into a juggernaut can also be a detriment.

"We've got to get that timing down," said Miller, who scored just six points and made 3 of only 8 field-goal attempts during a team-high 38 minutes against the Lakers. "But when we're rolling, no one says a damned thing about (how) we shot the ball with just five seconds into the (24-second) shot clock. When we're going bad, everybody asks these questions and talks about it.

"So we've just got to play together, and when we play bad, it's not selfish, it's just guys taking quick, early shots, and you have two guys touching it and not all five."

Miller often is the beneficiary of the Kings' most patient ball-movement possessions.

At their best, the Kings allow their offense to flow. Their movement and resulting ball movement will move a defense out of position. They usually can take advantage of their collective offensive intelligence to exploit defenses.

But when each player continues to believe his next shot will be good despite previous misfires, Miller said it's time for a change in attack.

"We've got to make the adjustment instead of just keep jacking 15-18 foot jump shots. We've got to go to the hole and try and do other things. We think the next one is going in, and it's a (messed up) situation. It's hard," he said. --oh brad hehe

Adelman's team shot 45.6 percent (after averaging 44.7 entering the game) and scored 99 points on a night when only nine NBA teams, including the Kings at 101.8, began the evening averaging at least that many points. In Adelman's view, his team was terribly impatient, a characteristic it has displayed during its worst moments this season.

"The Lakers couldn't guard us early in that game," he said. "We were getting layups. But then it was just one pass and shoot. ... We can play that game, but when it's not working, you have to recognize which team is on the roll and move the ball and make the (opposition) guard you. We never did that."

And the Lakers gave the Kings their worst home loss since March 1998. For the second consecutive day, Adelman said he hoped the game served as a wake-up call. The Kings have four games left on a homestand that will be followed by a six-game stretch beginning on New Year's Eve in Salt Lake City. Five of those games will be on the road. The home game is against San Antonio, 3-1 in its last four games at Arco Arena.

 

[VF21]

"We've got to make the adjustment instead of just keep jacking 15-18 foot jump shots. We've got to go to the hole and try and do other things. We think the next one is going in, and it's a (messed up) situation. It's hard," he said. --oh brad hehe

Adelman's team shot 45.6 percent (after averaging 44.7 entering the game) and scored 99 points on a night when only nine NBA teams, including the Kings at 101.8, began the evening averaging at least that many points. In Adelman's view, his team was terribly impatient, a characteristic it has displayed during its worst moments this season.

"The Lakers couldn't guard us early in that game," he said. "We were getting layups. But then it was just one pass and shoot. ... We can play that game, but when it's not working, you have to recognize which team is on the roll and move the ball and make the (opposition) guard you. We never did that."

Simillar to what we were saying right after the game! If you make them pass THREE times (at leats) before they shoot, good things happen! If not, you see something like what happened Thursday. This is definitely fixable.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Simillar to what we were saying right after the game! If you make them pass THREE times (at leats) before they shoot, good things happen! If not, you see something like what happened Thursday. This is definitely fixable.

Where are Gene Hackman and Denis Hopper when you need them?

 

[VF21]

Here's Dennis, in the movie I always think of first when I think of him.

 

[VF21]

And Gene Hackman...

 

[swisshh]

I have a new title, 'King's inept "Coach" leads to lack of "Rings"'. You watch that defensive debacle and you are talking about offense? I'm pulling my hair out here.

 

[VF21]

I find it incredibly amusing that, after a loss, there is a small cadre of fans who appear - out of nowhere - and call Adelman inept. Why not show up and give proper credit when he does something right?

It wasn't the defense that primarily cost us that game. It was forgetting how to play Kings basketball AND trying to trade blow-for-blow with the faster, more athletic Lakers. That's not the way the Kings play and when they do play that way, they invariably lose.

Adelman cannot do everything. If the players on the court decide to jack up the ball at the first opportunity, that's on them - not him.

There were a lot of mistakes made in the game against the Lakers. To single out Adelman as being the premiere scapegoat is simply not logical.

 

[shaka zulu]

alot of what the kings do on the defensive end is based on what they do offensively,the kings don't have the athleticism as other teams so the patience on offfense slows the game down a bit and allows the kings to dig in on D. what went on friday with quick shots by webber,bibby,and peja these quick shots led to fast breaks for the lakers you saw webber 5 seconds into the 24 take a quik shot and lamar odom was semi basket hanging for easy lay ups so was caron butler peja would hurry a shot and butler semi basket hanging cherry picked for easy layups,when you make the extra passes you are not only are in rythym to get better looks but you are also putting pressure on the denfense to work as they are working hard to defend you through the many screens and picks they are getting tired and not looking to beat you in transition as much,they may want to slow the ball one or two times instead of runnning, and when the kings are running there offense efficiently and getting the good looks and the shots fall they gain confidence on the defensive end and they can settle in to defend better,it's hard to play defense when you miss,for a bad defensive team a good offense can be a good remedy.

 

[Bricklayer]

What shaka said.

I too am amused, or perhaps bemused, by Rick's recurring "we need to play better offense" response to our defensive issues this year. But there is a certain logic to it -- he's more or less conceding that we lack defensive personnel, and is counting on an efficient, patient, offense to try to cover it up. Kind of like a football team which features a crushing running game so as to dominate time of possession and keep the other team off the field.

 

[swisshh]

There's thousands of Kings fans ready to praise Adleman, I don't need to do it. I find less Kings fans ready to question where this team is going, so I will do that.

It wasn't the defense that primarily cost us that game.

Wait, are you talking about the Lakers game? Because the league was laughing its *** off at our defense in that game. There was not constant shadowing of Kobe, the containment on him SUCKED, the weak side/second defender was hardly there and if there was anybody there it was merely token. The team never adjusted matchups on Odom and stuck with it, and that right there was the part that got the Lakers rolling. The team got beat down the court once by Vlade, VLADE! I love Vlade, but the man moves like a short legged Tree Ent.

It is one thing to lack defensive personel, it is anothing thing for the Coach to evoke zero defensive emphasis.

 

[VF21]

swisshh - I will disagree. Doug was all over Kobe, as much as anyone could have been. He actually shut him down for quite a few possessions. Unfortunately, Kobe was able to kick out to the perimeter and those guys were making shots they don't normally make.

True, there was no easy answer for Odom. If you're going to fault the coach, what would you have done?

It's one thing to point the finger at the coach; it is another thing to be able to identify what any other coach would have done in the same situation.

As both Bricklayer and shaka have pointed out above, we simply do not have the oppressive defense personnel that we need.

The article that started this thread made some very valid comments. If you don't jack up ill-advised quick shots, and force the opponent to slow down their game to match your offense (including passing, passing and MORE passing) you don't allow them to gather the momentum to put clumps on points on the board at one time.

Vlade beat the Kings? Strange. I saw Vlade's shot blocked by Pedja AND I saw Webber shoot and score right over him at least twice. Vlade was NOT a factor, which is why Rudy T. removed him from the court so quickly.

 

[Bricklayer]

It is one thing to lack defensive personel, it is anothing thing for the Coach to evoke zero defensive emphasis.

Its also one game.

As an aside, Miller oppened the second half on Odom. Did no better. Then we had Peja try it after that. But there is no good way for us to handle that athleticism with our personnel because Peja is the only guy who would have a hope of staying with him, and then which one of Miller or Webb gets to cover the SF? That is a personnel problem, not a coaching problem.

We also tried Bobby on Kobe, and Peja for a stint too. They also no great luck. We just don't have enough quality defenders to consistently cover up hot players, and with Doug's advancing age perhaps no stopper at all.

At some point we might have to consider switching to a zone with Tag anchoring the middle as a change of pace.

 

[shaka zulu]

you can preach about defense all day along it us up to the players to implement the DESIRE to wanna play defense a DESIRE to play on both ends of the floor.Adleman is not a get in your face type of coach much of what the kings do succesfully is based on the brand of coach RICK ADLEMAN is, he is a players coach meaning any player in the league would love to play for him because of his laid back approach, he allows the players freedom to express their talents without a coaching dictatorship,chris webber wouldn't operate at the skill level of his abilties with a larry brown or Greg popovich type of coach. that goes for several other kings players as well,those yell and get in your face brand of coaches wouldn't work with the players the kings assemble on the court for us every night.

The kings can be a good defending team. if you look at the 84 celtics with the front court of parish mchale and bird with DJ and AINGE and GERALD HENDERSON in the back court those guys wern't jumping out the Gym or extremly atheletic players,but they posessed the will and DESIRE to compete on the defensive end to win Big time.

The key for the celtics defense started with their DESIRE to compete on the defensive end, but more importantly their D was predicated off of their offense. THEY would come down every play and drive the defense crazy with pick you apart execution. Then on the defensive end BIRD WOULDN'T ALLOW his team to be demoralized, he couldn't jump had no lateral movement but it was his DESIRE to compete on the defensive end that worked for him and his team.

The kings can be just as good on the D, Webber with his one leg and all can be better defensively, kevin mchale didn't have great lateral defensive movement to slide with james worthy,but he made up for it by using his long wing span and winning DESIRE to compete.Webber can do the same in the paint for the kings as he posesses a long wing span himself and at 6'10 like mchale he can be effective as a defensive presence to ward off excessive layups ,If he can hang on the rim and jump with flash on the dunk shot then he can use that same explosion to move his feet and block shots with the long wing span on D , but it all comes down to DESIRE to compete on that end of the floor.

Brad miller already has the presence to not allow excessive lay ups he will foul you hard and make you earn the points from the line. Brad may not have the wing span as robert parish but his foot speed is better and his DESIRE to not want to give up anything to his opponent I think is stronger.

peja has the defensive savy like larry bird he can move his feet and he can be a stopper at times,but he must get tougher and have more DESIRE to want to compete on the Defensive end.

mike bibby doesn't have the physical Defensive tools but he can get tougher on the D and play with DESIRE to not be embarrassed. Danny ainge wasn't a quick guy but he wasn't going to back down from his opponent and be clowned,he would start a rumble or whatever to stay competitive to help his team win.

doug christie is probably a mirror image of DJ being they both went to pepperdine and they both play similar on the floor being able to play both guard positions and both are all defensive league guys and they both probaly are the glue for their respective teams.

bobby jackson can be look at as OUR GERALD HENDERSON a quick player who could start or come off the bench and provide that spark for the team and both players can really get at it on the D causing havoc for their opponents.

Darius can be looked at as a cedric maxwell type of player who can come in and mix it up gaurd multiple front court players and do the dirty work.

But most importantly how these two teams are similar is how they play on the offensive end of the floor both teams are not that fast and not atheltic but they both have offenses that can wear opponents down and frustrate their play ,the two teams can really slice defenses up, Iam not saying that are players are better or worse but I think the kings can take a page from the celtics of 84 with how effcient they were offensively and how their DESIRE to play DEFENSE balanced out their lack of defensive physical tools.

 

[VF21]

Nicely put...

And the Kings' D is showing improvement:

http://forums.kingsfans.com/showthread.php?t=1722

 

[swisshh]

swisshh - I will disagree. Doug was all over Kobe, as much as anyone could have been. He actually shut him down for quite a few possessions.

I agree, I think Doug played hard and got up on Kobe. It's just that Kobe kept blowing past him and there was no second man on the inside ever. If Doug is going to crowd Kobe, I imagine he is giving up the drive instead of the jumper. So if that was the strategy, how come the Kings big men were ghosts all night on dribble penetration? The Kings, 1. Didn't stop penetration by ANYONE and 2. Outside of that collision of Darius, Bobby and Kobe, had nill recovery and cut off on the inside.

As for Odom, Darius and Miller was working better than Webber + Anyone. Darius on Odom and Miller at center. It wasn't like CWebb was damaging the Lakers at the other end, so it wouldn't have hurt us so much. Thats another thing, Webber had a dumb game. If you can't physically guard a guy, then I understand that. But the way you get back at him is by putting him in foul trouble. Unfortunately Webber did not go after Odom on the inside. He did it for one or two possessions and got a foul on Odom. When I saw that, I thought "now thats one way to handle it", but then I never saw it again.

you can preach about defense all day along it us up to the players to implement the DESIRE to wanna play defense

Except that Adleman's comments constantly arrive at the subject of Offense, so there isnt' a whole lot of defensive preaching going on with the team.

that goes for several other kings players as well,those yell and get in your face brand of coaches wouldn't work with the players the kings assemble on the court for us every night.

How do you know that? Not that I approve of yelling and berating a player, but for example I thought Jason Williams would not mix with the type of coach Hubie Brown was. He was old school, he was stern, he was that type. Against my perception though, Brown and Williams both worked out and benefitted each other. Furthermore, the recent season history of the Kings has involved a yelling coach and on the court results.

 

[Bricklayer]

Furthermore, the recent season history of the Kings has involved a yelling coach and on the court results.

Oh hogwash. The ENTIRE successful history of the Kings has involved exactly the opposite. The fact that Rick barked at them once stands out precisely because he never does it (at least in public). That's also why it worked. A coach standing over there screaming all the time is as likely to get tuned out as to get results.

These are grown men, not little leaguers. A screaming and yelling coach is little different for them than a screaming and yelling boss is to you or I. Might get your attention if it happens once and you realize you screwed up. But does it every day and pretty soon you say "f you".

BTW, not sure which game you were watching, but I was watching the one where Webber was our leading scorer when he went out, shot 10-18 and scored 20pts in 29min. He absolutely was hurting the Lakers on the other side, and for all of the problems Odom seemed to be causing at the end of the day it was Webb 20pts in 29min, Odom 22pts in 37min.

 

[shaka zulu]

THe whole team played a Bad game it wasn't just one player the entire team was at fault,and they didn't play well together on defense and offense,it's a TEAM game basketball not an individual game,so everyone is held responsible for the L and poor play as well as the worst loss since 98.

Doug played kobe well at times he even caused kobe to committ a offensive foul on a charge,what I think hurt doug was his impatience on O he is usely a CO point man with Bibby and I think he didn't do a good job by getting us in our flow on offense he too came down on a couple of trips and quick shot the basketball which led to the lakers using their athleticism to beat us with quick transition points.Doug too got caught up in the free lance one on one stuff the lakers were doing.Kobe did blow past doug and he will do it again and again what we didn't do was play together our game is not predicated on what we do on defense,we are not the detroit pistons and when you watch them play and be succesful you see it is their DEFENSE,that triggers there offense to hit.

when they pick it up defensively there shots start to fall which makes them a better team.when our offense is in gear it makes our defense stronger which make us a better TEAM.

with brad miller gaurding lamar or darius defending him this wasn't the issue either everyone was out of sync and maybe RICK could have changed the line ups,but we cannot lay it all on him to fix everything this is aTEAM sport and everyone is held accountable.

as far as webber going back at odom that was the problem with him and the whole team,you not only saw webber going back at odom you saw bibby going back at them when a laker made 3 ball bibby would come down out of the offense and shoot a quick long shot or peja would come down after seeing jones make one he would come down shoot a long ball,even christie would get scored on by kobe and shoot a ill advised shot.

we didn'y play as a TEAM and that was the problem we took tghe game to personal by playing against vlade and wanting to just destroy the lakers on a personal level,if we played our brand of basket ball the game would of been a blow out,the lakers are not cerebal enough to handle our game they cannot defend us when we play together and it was evidebt early in the contest when we jump ot to that 7 point early lead,we will pick those athletic teams apart if we play our brand of B Ball just like we did best record in the league P SUNS we picked their run and gun stuff apart by being vets and executing with precision.

as far as yell in your face coaching look at what happen with Webber and don nelson.nellie in his old coaching days would yell at players especially rookies,but when he encountered the new breed of players in webber it wasn't the same old school effect it back fired,and webber is not a player you can berate he will go aloof.with hubie and jason williams you saw williams rebelous nature come out early this season when hubie benched him for talking back to him and his asisstant's so it was only a matter of time before we saw the real J-will.

 

[swisshh]

You guys are overreacting a bit here on the coaching style part. I stated I am not for yelling and in your face coaches. I just stated you can't know if that would or woudln't work with this team.

And the Odom vs Webber matchup was not about stats. It was about the effect they had on the court and Odom clearly won there. If Webber was getting those points inside, those same 10 baskets would have had much more an impact on the game. Getting beat at one end and then shooting a jumper at the other WAS the problem I was referring to. You aren't getting Odom into foul trouble with jumpers.

Shaka,

Yes, the team's D failed as a whole. Did you think I was blaming it on Christie or Webber? I don't think I ever implied that.

You can spark your offense from defense just as well. This isn't just something for the Detroit Pistons of the world. A couple Easy layups off of turnovers often lead to those jumpers somehow magically going in again.

Two years and you point out one minor incident between Hubie and Williams? Thats cute. Also, people should note there is a difference between the yelling and ranting type and just the hard nosed type of coach. There's gaping chasms between the philosophies and styles of Larry Brown and Bob Knight.

 

[shaka zulu]

RICK ADLEMAN is a coach that doesn't get the credit he deserves he is a offensive wizard he understands on a high level the art of putting the ball in the hole,he makes it easy the way he explains to his team and through the media when I hear him speak about scoring the basketball and offensive know how,he has taken 2 teams to NBA finals and he has had a winning season every year here in SACRAMNETO ,He has helped two assistant coaches get jobs in byron scott and terry porter,which I see them not give adleman any props in hiring them as assistants.He understands offense similar to what mike martz does for his football team or bill walsh type of offensive philosopher,The only knock on adleman right now is his winning the big one and he and webber both have this same knock in they both have been there webber in college and adleman with portland but both came up short ,lute oltson jim boheim both went through the same 2nd place curses but both have recently won so hopefully adleman and webber can do the same this season.

 

[SacTownKid]

I have a new title, 'King's inept "Coach" leads to lack of "Rings"'. You watch that defensive debacle and you are talking about offense? I'm pulling my hair out here.

I know what you mean. I just punched myself in the face after reading that. Some nights the shots just don't go in, what do you do then!? Wait at the other end of the court for the offensive possession?

I will agree the offensive struggle caused multiple fast breaks leading to opposing points but I was more disappointed in the lack of half court defense. That is what killed us. 50 freakin' points in the paint!! Adelman made a mistake by keeping our best halfcourt paint defender (Ostertag) on the bench b/c the other team was playing small. Instead he left Miller and Webber in and they couldn't do anything.