Kings foolish to make a trade

[reid1boys]

Artest is making 7 mill(somewhere in that range). So trading him we will get back:
1) Expiring contracts of players that stink. That leaves us to getting a superstart in free agency with all that extra cash, right? Wrong. Losing Artest type money does not help this team in any way.

Trade him for picks, that would be great, right? WRONG. Unless you are getting a Lottery pick, we would get who? Another Hawes type player with potential 3 years down the road.

At this point, I am not beyond KEEPING Ron and resigning him. As much as some of you hate that thought, Ron has been playing like a monster since his return. You will not come close to getting equal quality by trading Artest. I really dont want to hear about how much of a distraction he is. I just dont see it. Sign the guy to a deal and any talk of leaving goes out the window. i think all of that talk is posturing to get a bigger deal anyway. He is a 12 million type player and right now he makes peanuts(relative to other nba players of course)

Trade Bibby and his large 15 mill a year deal. Great, so by trading a 15 million dollar player we get a 15 million dollar player back right?? Nope, wed get 2 or 3 or 4 players to total Bibby's amount and that means they would all likely suck, be old, expiring, or are full of potential. So how would that help?

I would like to see what this team can do as is, healthy and together for a while. We have young contributors (Cisco, Beno) a budding Superstar in Martin, Solid vets like Bibby, and Artest, and the lone player I didnt think Id be saying this about, but MILLER who has absolutley turned himself around this year.

Trade any of these guys to help us.... just tell me how any trade involving these guys will IMPROVE this team in any concrete way.

Bibby Kidd straight up......... OK, Ill make that deal.

 

[BuenoBeno]

Ron has allready stated in numerous Sacbee articles that he will most likely opt out of his contract during the offseason and he doesn't feel he will be with the Kings much longer., It would be foolish to NOT trade him know that we have the chance.

 

[bench_blob]

Ron has allready stated in numerous Sacbee articles that he will most likely leave the Kings at the end oh his contract, It would be foolish to NOT trade him know that we have the chance.

He never said that.

He said he would most likely opt out of his deal. That doesn't mean he would not sign a new long term deal with the Kings.

Not to be rude, but get your facts straight, BuenoBeno.

 

[BuenoBeno]

my facts are straight, Bench Blob.

 

[NikateeN]

He never said that.

He said he would most likely opt out of his deal. That doesn't mean he would not sign a new long term deal with the Kings.

Not to be rude, but get your facts straight, BuenoBeno.

Kings forward Ron Artest says his time in Sacramento has been as enjoyable as any he has spent in the NBA.
Artest also says, though, that as he has looked around recently, he feels he won't be with the Kings much longer.
"I look around our team, and I see the emerging young stars, and I don't get the sense that I'm going to be around," said Artest, who recently said he plans to opt out of his contract during the offseason. "I don't have a real commitment from the Kings, and it might just be time to move on. But for now, we want to finish out this season and try to make a run at the playoffs. I definitely feel like this is going to be either the last or next-to-last season with the Kings.

 

[BuenoBeno]

Kings forward Ron Artest says his time in Sacramento has been as enjoyable as any he has spent in the NBA.
Artest also says, though, that as he has looked around recently, he feels he won't be with the Kings much longer.
"I look around our team, and I see the emerging young stars, and I don't get the sense that I'm going to be around," said Artest, who recently said he plans to opt out of his contract during the offseason. "I don't have a real commitment from the Kings, and it might just be time to move on. But for now, we want to finish out this season and try to make a run at the playoffs. I definitely feel like this is going to be either the last or next-to-last season with the Kings.

Thank you! I was looking for that article!

 

[tradepeja]

"You know, I guess everybody assumes (I'm going to opt out)," he said. "If you're going to bet your house on it, then bet that I'm going to opt out. But that time will come later. We'll see what happens."


"Winning is more important," he said. "I'm not thinking about money in my situation. I'm just thinking about winning. I need a ring, or I'll be sick. Whatever I get, I'll get.


"I'll give my dogs and my kids the money, and I don't have to spend nothing. I don't need nothing. If I have my ring, I'll be OK. I can live in the streets hungry."



nothing directly saying he WON'T resign...but unless things change very quickly, the Kings aren't a place where Ron could win a championship while still in his prime

 

[bench_blob]

Thanks for the quote, but we all know that Ron-Ron changes his tune as often as the sun rises and sets.

The facts are there are about 3 teams who will be under the cap during the off-season... the Grizzlies are one and there are maybe two other teams (anyone, anyone?) who most likely do not want to build their team around a volatile personality like Artest.

So where does that leave him?

It leaves him with a known entity in the Kings: a coach that supports him in Theus - who doesn't put up with his crap. They may not get along all the time, but there is respect from both sides. That counts for alot. And he has owners who want the best for him and are mindful and semi-lenient of shall we say his "idiosyncrisies" (sp?) or personality quirks, if you will.

I think Geoff Petrie knows the harm that can be done in allowing your talent base to bleed, as it it has happen to us the last few years...so losing Artest for nothing would be a serious wound.

So we offer him 5 years @ 40 million, or thereabouts, or a sign-and-trade that makes sense, but no stupid deals as the trade deadline approaches. The Kings season is looking UP as we approach .500 and a playoff push, Ron-Ron is playing very effectively....therefore we can afford to deal from a position of strength, not weakness.

 

[BuenoBeno]

Thanks for the quote, but we all know that Ron-Ron changes his tune as often as the sun rises and sets.

The facts are there are about 3 teams who will be under the cap during the off-season... the Grizzlies are one and there are maybe two other teams (anyone, anyone?) who most likely do not want to build their team around a volatile personality like Artest.

So where does that leave him?

It leaves him with a known entity in the Kings: a coach that supports him in Theus - who doesn't put up with his crap. They may not get along all the time, but there is respect from both sides. That counts for alot. And he has owners who want the best for him and are mindful and semi-lenient of shall we say his "idiosyncrisies" (sp?) or personality quirks, if you will.

I think Geoff Petrie knows the harm that can be done in allowing your talent base to bleed, as it it has happen to us the last few years...so losing Artest for nothing would be a serious wound.

So we offer him 5 years @ 40 million, or thereabouts, or a sign-and-trade that makes sense, but no stupid deals as the trade deadline approaches. The Kings season is looking UP as we approach .500 and a playoff push, Ron-Ron is playing very effectively....therefore we can afford to deal from a position of strength, not weakness.

There is respect from both sides? Are you kidding me? Did you not see that game a few weeks ago that had Artest yelling at theus? I think you said it perfectly when you said that those teams would not want to build around a volatile player like Artest- neither do the Kings and they should get rid of him now before he damages our franchise.

 

[Kingzrool]

I am sorry, I am as big of an Artest supporter than any. I would absolutely love it if the Kings offered an extension and he accepted. I am on record with this stance.

To ignore that Ron is ready to go and it is time to get him moving is short sighted at this point. Unless the Kings become a contender before he can opt out, he is gone.

 

[Smills91]

my facts are straight, Bench Blob.

No they're not, you're saying he said things that he never said.

 

[Elektrik]

At this point, I am not beyond KEEPING Ron and resigning him. As much as some of you hate that thought, Ron has been playing like a monster since his return. You will not come close to getting equal quality by trading Artest. I really dont want to hear about how much of a distraction he is. I just dont see it. Sign the guy to a deal and any talk of leaving goes out the window. i think all of that talk is posturing to get a bigger deal anyway. He is a 12 million type player and right now he makes peanuts(relative to other nba players of course)

Bibby Kidd straight up......... OK, Ill make that deal.

You just dont see it?? Ron Artest is n*t*. Lets go back just a couple of games to Utah and another team right before. Taunting the crowd, yelling at coach on the floor and the constant garbage that flows out of his mouth that gives little thought to how it affects the chemistry of the team and the fans that root for it. Do I really need to re-hash the incidents during his tenure in Kingsland that have created a problem for the team, its fans, and the organization. And of course lets not forget his history on other teams. Its a wonder he hasn't completely destroyed this team yet as he did with the Pacers. Cut our losses now. I dont care how. Preferably where the Kings dont come out of it with the short end, but get out from underneath the nightmare that is Ron Artest someway. somehow.

As for Kidd for Bibby? Kidd is too old and will mean little to this team next year or the year after due to age. Bibby is at his peak still and can bring in some young talent. Old timers? Thanks, but no thanks. I like what I see from the youth movement.

 

[BuenoBeno]

No they're not, you're saying he said things that he never said.

He said he will most likely opt out oh his contract during the offseason, he has also said that he doesn't feel he will be with the Kings much longer. I will edit my originol post to clarify what I was trying to say

 

[Superman]

I would like to see what this team can do as is, healthy and together for a while. We have young contributors (Cisco, Beno) a budding Superstar in Martin, Solid vets like Bibby, and Artest, and the lone player I didnt think Id be saying this about, but MILLER who has absolutley turned himself around this year.

Trade any of these guys to help us.... just tell me how any trade involving these guys will IMPROVE this team in any concrete way.

Do you think that group of guys can contend for a championship in the Western conference?

The reason you trade Bibby and Artest, and even Miller, is because you can get something for them now. Artest is an expiring contract (assuming he opts out), and he's the lockdown defender that a lot of teams need to give them a chance to contend. Mike is a shooter, still has a couple of years left, and can contribute as a starting point guard. Plus, he's shown that he can get it done in big games. Brad Miller is playing the best basketball of his career, and we could probably get some serious value for him from a team on the verge of being a serious contender.

If we don't trade these guys, then we either re-sign them and watch them get old wearing our colors while we suck forever, or we let them walk after their contracts expire, and we get nothing for them.

If it's acceptable to you as a fan to just let them walk (Miller's contract doesn't expire until 2011), then it's acceptable to just watch a sad, sorry Kings team that doesn't go anywhere for several more seasons. I don't think we should just trade them for the sake of trading them, but if we can make moves that put us in position to get better by landing a talented youngster or by getting under the cap and signing a free agent, then we try to do that. We can't just sit around hoping Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia can lead us to a championship; they can't.

The bottom line is we need better players than we have, and Ron Artest, Mike Bibby and Brad Miller are the most valuable players on our team, short of Kevin Martin. We can either a) watch them age before our very eyes, b) just let them walk, or c) try to parlay them into something that's favorable for us in the future. If we want to have a chance to get better and start moving forward in a couple of years, we have to part with them. It's as simple as that.

 

[Glenn]

How bad would this team be if we traded Artest for Nene?

Bibby/Beno
Martin/Cisco
Salmons/Cisco
Nene/Mikki
Miller/Hawes

This is far more than theory and very doable and would give us a better team than we have now immediately.

 

[BuenoBeno]

How bad would this team be if we traded Artest for Nene?

Bibby/Beno
Martin/Cisco
Salmons/Cisco
Nene/Mikki
Miller/Hawes

This is far more than theory and very doable and would give us a better team than we have now immediately.

I think I would go for that trade.

 

[Gary]

Me too ^^^^^

I would like Artest out of here yesterday. I am not sure what the Artest fans see in this guy. He is a 1v1 player on a team which likes to pass the ball. I would love Artest to stay if we didn't have other players who could score and if we were a half court team.

But the fact is we have a lot of other players who are better than Artest yet Artest feels he needs to take most of the shots. He doesn't either trust the team, or he thinks he's a better offensive player than all the others. He is MAYBE our 3rd option behind K-Mart, and Bibby... I actually put him behind Brad because I feel Brad is a better passer, and does a lot of damage when players cut to the basket with Brad at the elbow. That's my opinion.. But you give Artest the ball with 15-20 seconds and 75% of the time he will take the shot, and 25% of the time he will give the ball up with next to no time on the clock (because he couldn't create his own shot).

 

[Glenn]

I just hijacked a thread and apologize to Smills91. He certainly has a right to have his trade discussed to the end.

 

[reid1boys]

Do you think that group of guys can contend for a championship in the Western conference?


Who is talking about contending? That isnt happening in ANY scenario in the near future.

The reason you trade Bibby and Artest, and even Miller, is because you can get something for them now. Artest is an expiring contract (assuming he opts out), and he's the lockdown defender that a lot of teams need to give them a chance to contend. Mike is a shooter, still has a couple of years left, and can contribute as a starting point guard. Plus, he's shown that he can get it done in big games. Brad Miller is playing the best basketball of his career, and we could probably get some serious value for him from a team on the verge of being a serious contender.



I already listed what you would get for any of those players in my original post, which is you will get CRAP, and aging player, an expiring contract, or some draft picks. In NO case will you get guaranteed improvement. In your scenarios above, start getting SPECIFIC with some names of players you could possibly get in trades. Knowing salaries much match and Ron is underpaid, how can you trade him and IMPROVE. Please be SPECIFIC.


If we don't trade these guys, then we either re-sign them and watch them get old wearing our colors while we suck forever, or we let them walk after their contracts expire, and we get nothing for them.



You are under the assumption we suck right now, I dont think so. With this group healthy right now, I think the Kings are a Legit 4 seed in the West if they were healthy all season. How many top teams must they beat before people at least say they are somewhere in that middle group of the West's top teams. This is obviously nothing more than an opinion at this point.



If it's acceptable to you as a fan to just let them walk (Miller's contract doesn't expire until 2011), then it's acceptable to just watch a sad, sorry Kings team that doesn't go anywhere for several more seasons.


This is where we just disagree. This current team is acceptable to me. They are very competitive, they could win 50 games next season IMO. I am ok with that, because unless you can get one of the top 10 players in the league, you likely arent contending for a title anyway. Name me the top 4 teams in the league, and they all have one of the top players in the league. How you gonna land one of those guys??? Only by the draft\, and that means lottery, or a lucky crapshoot pick.

I

don't think we should just trade them for the sake of trading them, but if we can make moves that put us in position to get better by landing a talented youngster or by getting under the cap and signing a free agent,


Please name me ANY team in the last 4 seasons that has landed a superstar player via free agency. Lets make it fun, name me 2 teams that have done it. Dont get any headaches trying to answer that question.



then we try to do that. We can't just sit around hoping Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia can lead us to a championship; they can't.

The bottom line is we need better players than we have, and Ron Artest, Mike Bibby and Brad Miller are the most valuable players on our team, short of Kevin Martin. We can either a) watch them age before our very eyes, b) just let them walk, or c) try to parlay them into something that's favorable for us in the future. If we want to have a chance to get better and start moving forward in a couple of years, we have to part with them. It's as simple as that.



So again I hear what you are saying. But instead of saying we should get some talented youngsters or get something to help us, please start getting specific. Someone above already mentioned that only a couple of teams will be under the cap next year, meaning Ron could possibly resign here. He never said he is gone, just that all indications from what he sees from this team tend to make him think he isnt part of the plan. Offer a long term deal and that would make him think he was part of the plan.
I am all for getting better, please just tell me how, SPECIFICALLY.

Find a way to get some young superstar, and I am all for it. But trading Bibby and Ron for any of the 3 scenarios I mentioned (Getting crap, old players, expiring contracts) wont do it for me. Id rather have a team winning 50 and not really be contending than sucking and winning 30 hoping to get better when we are GOOD right now.

 

[bloom]

Me too ^^^^^

I would like Artest out of here yesterday. I am not sure what the Artest fans see in this guy. He is a 1v1 player on a team which likes to pass the ball. I would love Artest to stay if we didn't have other players who could score and if we were a half court team.

But the fact is we have a lot of other players who are better than Artest yet Artest feels he needs to take most of the shots. He doesn't either trust the team, or he thinks he's a better offensive player than all the others. He is MAYBE our 3rd option behind K-Mart, and Bibby... I actually put him behind Brad because I feel Brad is a better passer, and does a lot of damage when players cut to the basket with Brad at the elbow. That's my opinion.. But you give Artest the ball with 15-20 seconds and 75% of the time he will take the shot, and 25% of the time he will give the ball up with next to no time on the clock (because he couldn't create his own shot).

I don’t think Ron’s problem is with trusting his teammates. I think he makes it quite clear that he likes what he sees from Kevin (for sure), John and Cisco. But I think his problem is around the fact that he thinks he’s a superstar. He wants to be clutch; he wants to be “the man.” He sees himself bigger than he is, which is a problem and that throws the whole team off.

I don’t think Ron is going to lose it like a lot of people believe he is. But I do not want the guy signed to a longer contract by us. He’s a great guy, he taught the young guys something but we need someone else in replace of him. Plus, cussing at coach in the middle of a game doesn’t make me smile.

If you want the team to go far into the playoffs and actually win then we need to trade and sign. I don’t see Mike or Ron in our future. There’s no way I’m trading Mike for Jason Kidd (unless we can then trade Jason for a younger pg). The guy is old and we need a younger point guard. He’s a great player but not for us. Plus, I’d rather have a younger pg that will need a year or two to grow with our team than have someone just be a plug for a while. We need to improve into the future.

 

[Superman]

Who is talking about contending? That isnt happening in ANY scenario in the near future.

It's far less likely to happen if we just keep the group of guys we have right now. We're not good enough with these three guys, and they're all in their prime or on the way down.

I already listed what you would get for any of those players in my original post, which is you will get CRAP, and aging player, an expiring contract, or some draft picks. In NO case will you get guaranteed improvement. In your scenarios above, start getting SPECIFIC with some names of players you could possibly get in trades. Knowing salaries much match and Ron is underpaid, how can you trade him and IMPROVE. Please be SPECIFIC.

No you don't get guaranteed improvement, but you clean house. Again, there is no short-term or long-term benefit to keeping these guys on the team. So we can either tread water for the next several years, or we can take a couple steps back in hopes of straightening out a path for the future.

You are under the assumption we suck right now, I dont think so. With this group healthy right now, I think the Kings are a Legit 4 seed in the West if they were healthy all season. How many top teams must they beat before people at least say they are somewhere in that middle group of the West's top teams. This is obviously nothing more than an opinion at this point.

...

This is where we just disagree. This current team is acceptable to me. They are very competitive, they could win 50 games next season IMO. I am ok with that, because unless you can get one of the top 10 players in the league, you likely arent contending for a title anyway. Name me the top 4 teams in the league, and they all have one of the top players in the league. How you gonna land one of those guys??? Only by the draft\, and that means lottery, or a lucky crapshoot pick.

You bet this is where we disagree! Competitive doesn't mean good. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching us play a lot more than I did last season, and even the first half of the previous season. Seeing John Salmons step up, the way Kevin Martin came back from his injury, Brad Miller's resurgence as a quality NBAer, all those things are great to see. We are competitive most nights.

But at 22-24, we also lose most nights. I don't know where you get the impression that we're capable of being one of the four best teams in the Western conference. You must be stuck in 2003. I wish I was back there with you; those were good times.

And just because you don't have one of the top ten players in the NBA doesn't mean you're just content to just slap together a bunch of middling talent that doesn't really mesh well together and hope for 50 wins every year (which, by the way, is probably only going to be good enough for the 7th or 8th seed in the West this season). What you do is you either strip down and go full tilt after a top ten player, or you smartly assemble a cohesive group of guys that can become greater collectively than they are individually, and you hope for some good matchups and some luck.

We're doing neither. We're hoping Kevin Martin and Brad Miller are good enough to crack the top eight in the West. They're not. Not by themselves.

Please name me ANY team in the last 4 seasons that has landed a superstar player via free agency. Lets make it fun, name me 2 teams that have done it. Dont get any headaches trying to answer that question.

Phoenix Suns (Steve Nash), Chicago Bulls (Ben Wallace).

I certainly can't name a team that has landed a big name free agent without cap space. Neither can I name a team that has gotten better without draft picks or trades.

So again I hear what you are saying. But instead of saying we should get some talented youngsters or get something to help us, please start getting specific. Someone above already mentioned that only a couple of teams will be under the cap next year, meaning Ron could possibly resign here. He never said he is gone, just that all indications from what he sees from this team tend to make him think he isnt part of the plan. Offer a long term deal and that would make him think he was part of the plan.
I am all for getting better, please just tell me how, SPECIFICALLY.

Find a way to get some young superstar, and I am all for it. But trading Bibby and Ron for any of the 3 scenarios I mentioned (Getting crap, old players, expiring contracts) wont do it for me. Id rather have a team winning 50 and not really be contending than sucking and winning 30 hoping to get better when we are GOOD right now.

No, you're missing my point. It's not about a specific young superstar or a specific draft selection or any of that. It's about the specific players on our team with real value that we can use to put ourselves in better position going forward. There are a number of ways that we can do that, but keeping them doesn't make us any better. It actually just further hamstrings us.

I don't think are chances of keeping Ron Artest are as good as you think they are (he wants to be on a contender), and I really see no benefit for us in keeping him anyways, especially if we're not contending, as he's not quite as good as he seems to think he is.

We disagree on the current status of the team: you think they have potential to win 50 games and make the playoffs every year, I think they are a 35-40 win team, just good enough to miss out on a good draft choice. We disagree on where the team is going: you think Ron Artest and Brad Miller and Mike Bibby, along with the young guys, are all we need to be a solid team in the West, I think we're going nowhere fast, especially with those guys getting older. And we disagree on what's acceptable: you are content to watch a 50 win team get bounced in the first round every year, and I want to see a team with a chance of going deep in the playoffs.

I'd much rather be in the Grizzlies shoes than our right now. They'll have a bit of cap space next season, they have four young players with loads of potential (Hakim Warrick, Rudy Gay, Mike Conley, Javaris Crittendon), and they're willing to do a full-scale rebuild. It looks like we're stuck in Mediocre-ville forever.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Superman, you've hit the nail on the head. You just said everything I was feeling, thank you for sparing me the time of posting it myself. I don't think I would have been able to put my post in as nice a way as you did, as I just can't see logic in the way redi1boys thinks. That's not an insult, each to their own, I just strongly disagree with it. This team max's out at 45 wins. And we are nowhere near contending (or a 4th spot for that matter).

 

[SacKings7]

unless you can get one of the top 10 players in the league, you likely arent contending for a title anyway. Name me the top 4 teams in the league, and they all have one of the top players in the league

Detroit doesn't have a top 10 player (Billups is not a top 10 player). They win because of chemistry and defense. But I do agree that most contending teams will/do have franchise players

 

[Gary]

Detroit doesn't have a top 10 player (Billups is not a top 10 player). They win because of chemistry and defense. But I do agree that most contending teams will/do have franchise players

Billups, Rip, Wallace, and Prince are all kickbutt in the chemistry department.

You have teams like the Bobcats with Gerald Wallace, Emeka Okafor, Richardson, and Felton who plain flat out suck because the chemistry isn't there. Talent wise they are just as good on paper as the Pistons, but their record sucks compared to them. The talent is there, but the chemistry isn't an that hurts teams more than lack of talent in some cases...

I feel that Artest is doing the same to the Kings. I think Bibby, Miller, and Martin play VERY well together, and it shows out there on the court. When you throw Artest into the mix we start playing a lot of 1v1, and everyone stops moving w/o the ball.

 

[Glenn]

Superman, you've hit the nail on the head. You just said everything I was feeling, thank you for sparing me the time of posting it myself. I don't think I would have been able to put my post in as nice a way as you did, as I just can't see logic in the way redi1boys thinks. That's not an insult, each to their own, I just strongly disagree with it. This team max's out at 45 wins. And we are nowhere near contending (or a 4th spot for that matter).

You and Superman want a team contending for something not yet stated. Everyone wants the Kings to be a contender. The fact is that most Kings fans are satisfied with far less. What would satisfy you and Superman is far more than what would satisfy a majority of Kings fans. Most fans are satisfied with either simply having a team or getting 50 wins.

I think if this team had been healthy, a 50 win season would have been achieved but then who knows? The way they have been playing since the starters got healthy supports my guess. Let's let the season play itself out and see how good this team is. This team has a nice balance of experience and youth.

Unloading our best players and praying is one way of handling things and frankly, your way of doing this will require either luck or divine intervention.

On the other hand, take a deal that appears to be on the table, Nene for Artest, and you have a team that will hit 50 wins with barely breaking a sweat (my opinion, of course) and by the time the older players fall over from old age, we will have lost the salaries of SAR, KT, Mikki, and Brad if we choose to simply let them all go. Bibby's contract is up one year earlier. These "old" players will be gone with no creative trades or manipulations. Whether or not this is acceptable depends on whether you have the patience to wait two years.

I assume you have such patience as part of your plan includes getting draft choices and draft picks take a while to be useful unless you get lucky. I mean LUCKY!

Letting this team simply evolve as it is going (with the trade) may end up with a damn fine team especially if we get significant improvement from Hawes and Cisco and, gasp, maybe even Justin.

Certainly your approach will not result in a great team any quicker than it takes Hawes and Justin to mature.

 

[Superman]

You and Superman want a team contending for something not yet stated. Everyone wants the Kings to be a contender. The fact is that most Kings fans are satisfied with far less. What would satisfy you and Superman is far more than what would satisfy a majority of Kings fans. Most fans are satisfied with either simply having a team or getting 50 wins.

I think if this team had been healthy, a 50 win season would have been achieved but then who knows? The way they have been playing since the starters got healthy supports my guess. Let's let the season play itself out and see how good this team is. This team has a nice balance of experience and youth.

If we were capable of winning 50 games (or finishing the season out on a 50 win pace) this year, then I've grossly underestimated the talent level of this team, and I owe a lot of people an apology, starting with Geoff Petrie. I'd be a lot more amiable about a team that was capable of sustaining a 50 win pace for the better part of a season.

My main point of contention with the OP is that I don't think we're as good with Artest, Bibby and Miller as he does. I think we'd be better served to look two or three years down the line without those three than to shoot for 50 wins next season with them as a part of the core.

Unloading our best players and praying is one way of handling things and frankly, your way of doing this will require either luck or divine intervention.

Not hoping for divine intervention, but all good teams get lucky at one point or another. You were talking about the Spurs getting Tim Duncan just a couple of days ago. That's major luck right there, even if they did tank to get the number one pick. And even if the NBA fixed the Lottery that season, the Spurs have been lucky that Duncan hasn't suffered major injuries over the course of his career. All good teams get lucky at some point.

On the other hand, take a deal that appears to be on the table, Nene for Artest, and you have a team that will hit 50 wins with barely breaking a sweat (my opinion, of course) and by the time the older players fall over from old age, we will have lost the salaries of SAR, KT, Mikki, and Brad if we choose to simply let them all go. Bibby's contract is up one year earlier. These "old" players will be gone with no creative trades or manipulations. Whether or not this is acceptable depends on whether you have the patience to wait two years.

I have the patience to wait two years. I think we're going to have to do so anyways, whether we make moves or not. Even with the drastic improvements the Celtics made this past summer, I don't think they'll win the championship this season. Two years is more than reasonable.

(As an aside, my major complaint is that we've waited so long to do something worth mentioning; we're actually still waiting.)

My only issue with Nene is the fact that he's had major injury problems. I'd be willing to take a chance on a guy like Amare, but Nene isn't Amare.

Secondly, I don't get why the Nuggets would trade for Ron Artest. Not enough balls to go around in Denver.

I assume you have such patience as part of your plan includes getting draft choices and draft picks take a while to be useful unless you get lucky. I mean LUCKY!

Letting this team simply evolve as it is going (with the trade) may end up with a damn fine team especially if we get significant improvement from Hawes and Cisco and, gasp, maybe even Justin.

Certainly your approach will not result in a great team any quicker than it takes Hawes and Justin to mature.

I just don't think we should take the wait and see approach, especially if that means re-signing Ron Artest. And if we're not going to re-sign him, we need to trade him. Just letting him walk seems a waste to me.

 

[PFFFT!!]

You need to trade Artest AND Bibby this season...no ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[Glenn]

All I am asking is to wait until the end of the season. Then we will know how good this team could have been if intact for the season. If we don't wait, we just guess. It's a wait of a few more months which seems to be a lot more time than a lot of people are willing to give.

 

[Superman]

All I am asking is to wait until the end of the season. Then we will know how good this team could have been if intact for the season. If we don't wait, we just guess. It's a wait of a few more months which seems to be a lot more time than a lot of people are willing to give.

I'd be fine with that if Artest couldn't opt out of his contract at the end of the year. Then we lose him for nothing. I'm actually okay with that also, but I think it would make more sense to try trade him for something, rather than just let him walk. But if that can't be done, then we'll just lose him.

I do NOT want to see us sign him to a long-term extension.

 

[Glenn]

I'd be fine with that if Artest couldn't opt out of his contract at the end of the year. Then we lose him for nothing. I'm actually okay with that also, but I think it would make more sense to try trade him for something, rather than just let him walk. But if that can't be done, then we'll just lose him.

I do NOT want to see us sign him to a long-term extension.

If he walks away, we lose his salary. That has no immediate effect but at the end of next year, Bibby's contract is up and we can buy out Mikki for $2 mil. Then we are significantly under the cap.

If he walks away after a trade, that was a huge risk for our trading partner. I think that makes him difficult to trade unfortunately.

Contracts under 4 years cannot be extended so don't worry.