Kings first round of coaching candidate interviews comes out
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Not playing Barnes 38min/game? You saw some of these lineups OKC for example threw out there. Nothing forced Kings to play Barnes and other vets. You dont tell players to lose games, you sit veteran players you have 5-10years worth of tape playing in the league and know what they are as players and play any young guys you can. Thats an extremely easy way to gain some draft position.
I value getting additional first round picks A LOT more than trading down with your own and getting one extra. Vlade got some for Cousins trade and one for Bellinelli but thats it. For a rebuilding team I expected a lot more and they would've been extremely beneficial for us. Considering Vlade had prime Cousins to trade, used 40million dollars worth of cap space on Zbo, Ghill and VC, made a horrible trade with philly where we lost draft capital and wasted the cap space and overall used our cap space horribly, the amount of draft capital added was very small
I chose not to renew my Timbers tickets but they strong armed renewals to get cup finals tickets and then when another DV incident came to light they refunded anyone who asked (which is funny because they hung me out to dry last year when I had covid related concerns). I wouldn't be surprised if they are bracing for cancellations if Jackson is hired and probably will ultimately NOT hire him for that reason alone. Also basketball reasons.
I would criticize just about everything about Vlade's tenure as GM, but the guy did fill a whole roster with first round picks. He had draft capital for days, he just didn't know how to use it. Obviously we know how things actually turned out but I think Vlade's strategy of supplementing young players with well-regarded vets every year could have worked with a better scouting department.
There are so many reasons to choose from: he has made intolerant comments, he alienated an entire franchises workforce, his last team got better once he left, he doesn't actually coach right now, just talks on the sideline and isn't particularly good at that, his 'change the gym locks' policy will not mesh well with Monte's 'share data with coaches' vibe he hangs his hat on.
If Jackson was serious about coaching, he would take an assistant role somewhere or coach at a lower level. If his personality prevents him from doing that then he belongs on ESPN.
Vlade was really bad at talent evaluation but also he was hamstrung by the stupid Casspi for Hickson deal that basically kept our first round picks out of our control for the whole decade. The Philly deal was really stupid but I also imagine if he could have just traded the 2016 pick for space he'd have done it without all the swaps and pick down the road.
And honestly, that didn't really hurt us in the long run. Blowing the 2017 10th (and then 15th/20th picks we got for it) as well as the 2018 draft and hiring Luke Walton without a full coaching search killed this team.
Livinthedream
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Walton had some legal issues hanging over his head as well right after the Kings hired him and Vivek didn't immediately pull the plug.
Walton's issues reeked like a set up. Usually when someone is bad there is a long trail (both of the Portland soccer incidents involved repeat offenders and cover ups by Portland's FO). I'd even say Billups stuff was so far in the past and he's been a model citizen he'd be an acceptable hire in about 25 NBA cities, but never this one.
captain bill
All-Star
Fortunately for him you don’t need to be serious to be hired by the Sacramento Kings
focusing just on the basketball and interpersonal relations he should never have made it to the second cut let alone an in-person.
I will die if Monte hires him. It has no sound basketball logic. At least Brown (and maybe Clifford) meet the defense first mantra we've seen from most if Monte's moves and also Brown is clearly evolving with the game. The last time we saw Jackson he was running an out of date scheme from the 90s. He has been out of coaching ranks so how on earth are we to have expected any kind of evolution. This team can't coach itself, we saw that with Gentry.
The Kings were 8-16 after the Sabonis trade. I'm sure if nothing else they were hoping to see Fox and Domas play together a bit to end the season. When that didn't happen they shut them down. Unfortunately for the tank, they ended up going 5-5 to finish the year. I'd say that was more about Mitchell than Barnes since Davion went for 20 & 10 during that stretch. Okay, 19.8 ppg and 10 apg.
But lets say the King went 0-10 in that same stretch. They'd be tied with Indiana for the 5th slot instead of the 7th. And they'd only have a 2.5% better chance of the # 1 pick and an 8% better chance of a top 4 pick in a relatively weak draft.
I'm not going to tell you not to be upset that they didn't tank hard enough. I'm just saying that for me, of all the terrible decisions the Kings have made during this long playoff drought, not trying as hard as possible to lose the last few games just doesn't bother me. Odds are they still win one game and end up tied in the 6th spot instead of being 7th. Maybe I'll feel differently if the Pacers or Blazers win the lottery. But I doubt it.
This is a draft with a consensus top 3 and yet I don't think any of them is a franchise level player. Banchero might have the clearest path to it. But when the kid who is largely the consensus top player is being compared to Michael Porter Jr and Rashard Lewis, I don't know that this will be a great draft class. Mind you, I really like Jabari Smith Jr, but I don't think there's a LeBron/Durant/Curry type talent at the top of this draft.
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Sluggah
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Early on in the pandemic, when it seemed like permanent remote work was inevitable, I had this crazy idea of moving to Sacramento and buying season tickets. Then I went to look at property and it was so unbelievably hot while I was there I immediately gave up the dream.
BUT…I’d like to think the multi-verse version of me that bit the bullet is canceling season tickets at the though of Jackson.
BUT…I’d like to think the multi-verse version of me that bit the bullet is canceling season tickets at the though of Jackson.
Livinthedream
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Maybe the Walton thing was a setup. But we tend to believe the people we know or relate to better. Regardless of the truth.
Joe Lacob fired a coach who won 51 games and brought a team to the playoffs for the first time in whenever. Saying 200 people in the org didn't like Mark was an exaggeration, but he wanted to cover himself. Fans took it as fact. Media rolled with all the negatives because it made for a good story and that's what media does.
Jackson has had is issues, but I think the biggest turn off for people is indeed him putting his religious beliefs out there for all to see.
what I don't understand is why with Vivek's GS fetish if Lacob says he turned off everyone in the org Vivek would want anything to do with that. I'm sure Jackson says he's changed and he's learned from that and maybe it's even true but he hasn't applied himself as a basketball mind in the time since except as a commentator most people don't like either.
Livinthedream
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Because it's probably wasn't that extreme. But if the owner doesn't like you, it might as well be everyone else too.
TaxMan
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I won't freak UNTIL I see the tweet announcing we're hiring Jackson. Until then I'm going to assume this is either agents pushing Jackson to get other interviews, or the Kings doing some favor to Klutch Sports to get Jackson's name out there.
As others have said... it's not the religious side of Jackson. It's that he is literally a pastor that chose to preach in the workplace. Yes, many athletes are highly religious and its "no big deal" and potentially motivational... it's also highly divisive to others that aren't. You're just playing with fire to assume in your face religious views don't create a tone in the locker room.
However, beyond all of that, I just don't find him all that insightful of an NBA analyst. I know 50% of the audience always thinks the color man on a game broadcast is an idiot and annoying; however, he constantly comes across as not really saying anything all that meaningful or that would suggest deep basketball coaching strategy. It seems to me he's potentially an inspirational motivational speaker, IF you are the right audience.
As others have said... it's not the religious side of Jackson. It's that he is literally a pastor that chose to preach in the workplace. Yes, many athletes are highly religious and its "no big deal" and potentially motivational... it's also highly divisive to others that aren't. You're just playing with fire to assume in your face religious views don't create a tone in the locker room.
However, beyond all of that, I just don't find him all that insightful of an NBA analyst. I know 50% of the audience always thinks the color man on a game broadcast is an idiot and annoying; however, he constantly comes across as not really saying anything all that meaningful or that would suggest deep basketball coaching strategy. It seems to me he's potentially an inspirational motivational speaker, IF you are the right audience.
Just another thing that we could've done better to improve our odds to get better in the future that we didnt do. When these happen constantly, year after year multiple times a year its infuriating. We benefitted nothing from not sitting Barnes and others. We lost draft position. If I witness mistakes that this franchise makes I'm not just going to be ok with it because we have made worse mistakes in the past.
Passing on Luka for Bagley was an obvious all time mistake right when it happened but that was just one thing. Wasting cap space for guys like Rondo, Bellinelli, Afflalo, Zbo, GHill, VC ect instead of getting additional draft capital and better draft positioning was always a big mistake because the team wasnt ever those overpaid vets away from actually competing. To me it was awfull then, on par with why we are in a position we have been so long and now with the benefit of the hindsight we can safely say we would've been much better off by just focusing on the future.
To me its very clear that too early win now moves has been a huge part of why this franchise has been the worst of the league for the past 10+ years. I'm getting pretty tired to go through the same stuff every year with the same result and still the same actions by ownership and the same conversations by fans. Yeah Monte is much better than Vlade who was one of the worst GM's in the history but if we are handcuffed by a win now mandate from ownership, I hope Adam Silver could do something about it. Not gonna happen but would be nice if the moves we make started to be a little bit more towards a timeline where we could actually be succesful
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Vivek also left the Warriors ownership group relatively early into the Mark Jackson experience when the Warriors were suddenly in the playoffs for the first time in forever and probably doesn’t really remember/realize that improvement had more to do with Steph and Klay ascending into superstars and Draymond and Harrison Barnes being great complimentary pieces put into a functional (if not old fashioned) offense and defense by Mike Malone. He also wasn’t there for the span after we poached Mike Malone and the Warriors started to really struggle/stagnate under Mark Jackson.
For me the context also matters. Do you see a generational talent at the top of this draft? I don't.
I think Chet could be close. If he answers the weight questions (Big if), he's as talented a basketball player that we've seen in a long time.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yeah if there was a draft to not tank for, it would be this one. The three guys at the top are talented but they aren’t that much more talented than the next ten or so guys below them (in my opinion).
honestly I see a lot of opportunities for a bad pick in the consensus top 4, so I am pretty fine if we wind up stuck at 7 and get a crack at Murray or Mathurin or whoever Monte sees in that second tier.
I could be wildly wrong here, but I think Tari Eason could end up being a pretty ideal fit next to Sabonis. The Kings could probably trade down and get him while adding another asset.
There's some higher than normal bust potential in this projected lottery IMO.
I'd love to be wrong about Chet but I don't think he has an NBA body and I also keep going back to one or two pictures where I started wondering if he was ever diagnosed with Marfan syndrome, so I've been very interested to hear when he takes his NBA physical if any irregularities are discovered with his heart.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
You’re a medical professional so I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s thought that about him (as a guy who is definitely not qualified to give medical opinions).
I dont bother to analyse drafts too closely if Kings arent drafting at the very top so hard to say yet. Either way better position gives you better odds, historically its a statistical fact. You also dont have to choose a player 6 teams passed on plus it gives you opportunities to trade down if you really evaluate the draft in a way that it doesnt matter if you draft 2nd or 7th. However I would never be happy with thinking "well we draft seventh because other teams managed to tank the rest of the season and we didnt but thats cool because in this draft the 7th best prospect is almost as good as the top 2-4".
To me us being 7th pre lottery was a choice, and a bad choice by us. The end of the season was literally meaningless. Draft position isnt meaningless. One could easily argue we should've started the tank way earlier to be in the race for a top 4 position. Of cource we didnt do that but at the very least there is no reason why Indiana and Portland should've got better position than us. It was a bad choice we made, hopefully we get very lucky in the lottery but its just a one example where our way of operating is queationable at best
I'm an educator and not a doctor, but we do a Marfan case every year and there's a few photos that jumped out at me as the textbook photo we give to diagnose (along with the heart sounds). But yeah, that's the big reason I've been very reserved on Chet.
A sobering note - I'm not sure of the last time we've gotten an extra pick or traded down in the first round and have ended up with anything of value from the pick:
2017: #10 from NOP, traded down for #15 (Justin Jackson) and #20 (Giles)
2016: Traded down from #8, got #13 (Papagiannis) and #28 (Labissiere) (Rights to Bogdan were also included, but that's not a pick)
2016: Acquired #22 from CHA (Malachi Richardson)
2011: Traded down from #7 to #10 (Jimmer)
2009: Acquired #23 (Casspi)
So that's the one. 2009 is the last time that we had an acquired 1st that we did anything useful with.
I don't know if you answered this, but outside of benching Barnes (which I agree with, or at least keeping his minutes very very low), and playing Queta in a consistent 15+MPG role, what would you have done differently to "tank harder"? We were pretty much busting teams with our end of benchers already (Lyles, Jones, Metu, Jackson), saw our rookie who struggled for a good portion of the year just take over the team the last 12 games and DDV return to his pre-injury form. Holiday played, but he was pretty clearly the biggest tank commander of everyone and was really really bad to close out the year.
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