Kings draft Spencer Hawes: Discussion

[ReinadelosReys]

Little Recap of the GP interivew

On selecting Hawes: Going forward its important tot get young big guys in the pipeline. 19 ys old and has a terrific feel for the game. Going forward it was a great pick for what they want to do in the future

Generally guys do get better mature, continue to grow, has all the skills needed to play his position now. Had terrific season as a fresh in the Pac10

Have to have a center, going further…. they’re hard to find

Says the Kings were on the phone a lot, made a lot of efforts to move up and get additional picks. Were at times a phone call away…..just the way it goes in the draft sometimes. Have to move on to FA and all the things that go along with tha. Will continue to be an active period with the nest 2-3 weeks, month going

Played with Hawes Uncle Steve in Portland, ALT…. hasn’t talked to him in a long time

Doesn’t think you’re going to solve all the issue of the team with one pick. Right now have skilled young players, but needed to get bigs in the pipeline, obvious with their roster. He was the best pick

On the Brad Miller comparison and fan’s discontent: Every player is different Miller was an All-star, struggled last year no doubt. Spencer is a different type of player, in terms of skill level and areas of court he can operate. He’s skilled young and good pick “going forward”

On other teams and whether he was surprised be the moves: Boston was intent on trading pick, Sea they’re going with a younger team, Char-somewhat the same scenario….

On Jay Bilas’s report: As a freshman he was an adequate rebounded, (made a crack on Jay Bilas)

 

[Miles and Miles]

I think people just expected more with the 10th pick obviously. We are comparing Hawes to Divac and Miller. Which is sad when Divac was undrafted and Miller was the 26th pick. Shouldn't we get something better with the 10th pick in one of the deepest drafts in NBA history. Hawes wasn't the guy I wanted but I am going to sit patiently in the wait and see stance. Hopefully Reggie has some magic to bring this all together.

 

[Arena Skeptic]

The more I think about it, the more I think Acie Law would have made a lot more sense.

If the Kings drafted big, they needed something not like Brad Miller, not someone many think will become just like Brad Miller. They needed shot blocking, rebounding and defense, and Hawes gives them none of that. He has no upper-body strength. In a way, this is Mike Dunleavy; Hawes MAY get stronger, but I'd take the under on that one.

In the meantime, Acie Law was still available, and the Kings need a point guard to transition into Bibby's job. Might as well get a young, promising PG while the old one is still good enough to train the young one.

I'll say it again: The Kings are weak at every position, 1-5, bench included. Their needs: Everything (possible exception: Wing scoring, but nearly every team can say that). So you take the best player available.

The Kings did not take the best player available.

And in the meantime, they just stand there and watch the Warriors leapfrog Wright over them. Holy Mackerel.

 

[hiero]

I just want to add, what a huge mistake it was to pass on Rajon Rondo last year. hes a legitimate PG, with ridiculous defensive skills, I loved the year he had for the Celtics. I wish we had him on the team, we would be so much better with him as our future point, instead of having Douby as just a bench rider.

 

[cfechter]

BTW, hewre is an old link to the yahoo scouting videos for all the prospects, thought might as well put it back up so people who have not can see Hawes in action:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/prospects?rank_type=1



Note the very spophisticated post moves (the series at 2:15 is particularly nasty). Also note the lack of athleticism or a good body to improve there. That's our guy.

Thanks for posting this Brick - after watching through the video, yeah, the kid has some moves, but he really reminds me of Bryant Reeves and/or Rafael Araujo.

I'm usually not this negative but this move just has me depressed.

 

[Gary]

And that's why people need to keep in mind that rebuilding takes time. We've barely cleared the ground for the foundation. It's not gonna be a completed project for a couple of years at least.

If I had to guess I would say about 6-7 years before this team is back in contention for a playoff spot let alone a championship. And I bet Hawes won't be a major part of that either.

The only thing I can think of doing with this team is to tell Bibby, Miller, KT, SAR, Artest to all GO HOME and don't come back. Offer to buy them out. If they don't than let them rot at home until their contract ends. Than pick up all the non drafted players, and look for a diamond in the rough, and start over. That would be better than watching another year of this craptastic team full over overpaid vets that can't play worth crap.

 

[JJ_Evans]

I think people just expected more with the 10th pick obviously. We are comparing Hawes to Divac and Miller. Which is sad when Divac was undrafted and Miller was the 26th pick. Shouldn't we get something better with the 10th pick in one of the deepest drafts in NBA history. Hawes wasn't the guy I wanted but I am going to sit patiently in the wait and see stance. Hopefully Reggie has some magic to bring this all together.

flip that.... divac was the 26th and miller was undrafted outta purdue

 

[TaxMan]

I think people just expected more with the 10th pick obviously. We are comparing Hawes to Divac and Miller. Which is sad when Divac was undrafted and Miller was the 26th pick.

That's like saying you wouldn't want someone like Ben Wallace, Gilbert Arenas, or Carlos Boozer at the 10.

 

[Arena Skeptic]

If I had to guess I would say about 6-7 years before this team is back in contention for a playoff spot let alone a championship. And I bet Hawes won't be a major part of that either.

The only thing I can think of doing with this team is to tell Bibby, Miller, KT, SAR, Artest to all GO HOME and don't come back. Offer to buy them out. If they don't than let them rot at home until their contract ends. Than pick up all the non drafted players, and look for a diamond in the rough, and start over. That would be better than watching another year of this craptastic team full over overpaid vets that can't play worth crap.

I still think Hawes will be more like Todd Fuller than Joe Kleine. Actually, think of a cross between Mike Dunleavy and Todd Fuller; that's Spencer Hawes.

Joe Kleine had really short arms. It was so strange. Go back and look at old pictures of him.

Yup, this is a really dark day in franchise history. I just don't know how a guy who's allegedly 7'1" and getting major minutes averages only 6 rebounds in the Pac 10. That just doesn't seem possible. What did he do, run away from the ball? If he can't box out other Pac 10 big men, how in the world will he box out Yao Ming?

Somewhere out there, Rick Adelman is cackling so hard, he probably had to change his underwear.

By the way, I'd love to tell Bibby, SAR, Artest, Miller and KT to all stay home, too, but that's a pipe-dream. I'd settle for KT, though. At least the other four seem to care. Sure, they're wildly overpaid, and thus are completely untradeable, but at least they seemed to care and had some stats. KT was just a wasted seat on the plane.

 

[Merdiesel]

I have a feeling that the kings are going to regret passing on Julian Wright.

 

[captain bill]

The more I think about it, the more I think Acie Law would have made a lot more sense.

If the Kings drafted big, they needed something not like Brad Miller, not someone many think will become just like Brad Miller. They needed shot blocking, rebounding and defense, and Hawes gives them none of that. He has no upper-body strength. In a way, this is Mike Dunleavy; Hawes MAY get stronger, but I'd take the under on that one.

In the meantime, Acie Law was still available, and the Kings need a point guard to transition into Bibby's job. Might as well get a young, promising PG while the old one is still good enough to train the young one.

I'll say it again: The Kings are weak at every position, 1-5, bench included. Their needs: Everything (possible exception: Wing scoring, but nearly every team can say that). So you take the best player available.

The Kings did not take the best player available.

And in the meantime, they just stand there and watch the Warriors leapfrog Wright over them. Holy Mackerel.

point guards that can score a lot of points and hit clutch shots in the tournament come along what, 3 a year? he does what every decent pg prospect can do, and yet he still has a lot of question marks because he doesnt blow away people with his speed and is also going to face tougher defense around the rim, limiting what he can do.

hawes has been described as one of the best offensive forces to come along at center in a long time, possessing both an array of post moves and an outside shot, added to good court vision and passing ability with a high bb iq. he is an average-at-best rebounder at this point but is 19 years old and was a guard before last year. and, by the way, he averaged more rebounds than brandan wright did.

the fact that you characterize hawes as being the equivalent of brad miller just because they aren't dominant rebounders or defenders doesn't make much sense, especially when you use a comparison to a former all-star and one of the top centers in the league (when he was playing his absolute best) as a negative, then im kinda confused. especially when, in your words, we should be drafting the best player available and not by need, since we have several years to find a rebounding, defending, shotblocking lane presence (although i understand your anger, it just has to be petrie's fault that oden didn't fall to us at no 10)

 

[HndsmCelt]

I have a feeling that the kings are going to regret passing on Julian Wright.

no doubt Kings FANS will be regretting it and will post clips of every highlight. Spencer Hawes will liklely mostly end up in highlights as the posterized. Bu that does not make him a bad pick. He is not exciting barely dunks makes most of his shots with a smooth little bump, slide and hook (yawn) and blcoks very little. So I have no doubt where the highlight reels will come from but again I have never been that impressed by individual athtletic efforts.

 

[Citrusheightskingsfan]

I agree

In watching this video, I saw a lot of offense, a couple of blocked shots and one dunk. But the one thing that glared out at me was that he can't get above the rim in traffic. The one break away dunk was a gimmie, and even at that he didn't get very high to slam it down. The initial post questioned the Maloof's motives and I agree. They let Adelman go, hire Mussleman, can't get a new arena, don't make trades while the rest Western Conf. is making deals right and left and now they draft this guy.
The Sacramento Kings will end up in Anaheim or Las Vegas in two years.

Thanks for posting this Brick - after watching through the video, yeah, the kid has some moves, but he really reminds me of Bryant Reeves and/or Rafael Araujo.

I'm usually not this negative but this move just has me depressed.

 

[Rockmeister]

no doubt Kings FANS will be regretting it and will post clips of every highlight. Spencer Hawes will liklely mostly end up in highlights as the posterized. Bu that does not make him a bad pick. He is not exciting barely dunks makes most of his shots with a smooth little bump, slide and hook (yawn) and blcoks very little. So I have no doubt where the highlight reels will come from but again I have never been that impressed by individual athtletic efforts.

You don't think this is a bad pick when players are going to posterized Hawes? Like I said in another post, maybe they should have just stuck with Miller.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Well, Theus said we were going to run...We have hawes and miller and the team is supposed to run and gun?? The reports said hawes has a good halfcourt game and the last time i checked a halfcourt game wasn't running and gunning. You can't say one thing, and then draft the opposite. The only center that we have that can run is Justin Williams. Im counting on Petrie (as is everyone else) to make something happen. It is time to get dirty and start dealing players.

 

[BawLa]

Some people seem to forget that the princeton is an offense not a defense. If Petrie wants to re-create a new princeton offense, then let him. Last time I checked, we were one Robert Horry shot from making the finals, and likely winning it all. And that team had just enough defense to get by. Petrie built a team that was competitive and was a legitimate threat to win the west for a period of time. I don't remember people complaining about some of the player's shortcomings when we were winning games in the playoffs.

Finding an athletic PF whos main skills are rebounding, with some shotblocking, is not going to be as hard as people make it seem. Especially if we find our way into the top 5 of next years draft. The real trick, is going to be in finding a PG who is pass-first and defensive minded. A PG who probably has a little more weight but is athletic enough to move side to side.

How many times do you see teams gather primarily athletic players and then continuously fail to do anything with them? More often than not. The good teams, have balance between athleticism and skill. And the good teams have at least one superstar. Hawes is not a superstar. But I saw no potential superstars in any of the players that were left.


Lets take a look at the San Antonio Spurs. They have built a system that can defend against the best, and score with the best. That is why they are perennial winners. Is every player a defensive specialist? Not even close. Bowen and Duncan were pretty much their only defenders, with a little defensive contribution from Oberto. But if you look at the boxscores, you won't find the stat sheet filled with steals or blocked shots. They play TEAM DEFENSE. And they do it well.

Between Duncan, Oberto and Elson, they combine as a frontcourt to contribute about : 30 pts, 20 rebs, 5 ast, 1.5 stl, 3.5 blk

Say that in his prime Hawes can contribute: 18 pts, 8 rebs, 4 ast, .5 stl, and .5 blk.

That means we need two guys that can contribute 12/12 with 3 more blks and 1 stl, if we want to be as productive as San Antonio. Doesn't seem that tough anymore. You might even be able to get that out of ONE guy if he is a top 5 pick. I can even see Justin Williams being able to contribute about 6 pts, 8 rebs, 2 blks in his future.

Maybe this is all pointless speculation. But it is no more pointless than suggesting that he's a bust and a bad pick before we've even seen the kid on the court.

 

[TaxMan]

Some people seem to forget that the princeton is an offense not a defense. If Petrie wants to re-create a new princeton offense, then let him. Last time I checked, we were one Robert Horry shot from making the finals, and likely winning it all. And that team had just enough defense to get by. Petrie built a team that was competitive and was a legitimate threat to win the west for a period of time. I don't remember people complaining about some of the player's shortcomings when we were winning games in the playoffs.

Finding an athletic PF whos main skills are rebounding, with some shotblocking, is not going to be as hard as people make it seem. Especially if we find our way into the top 5 of next years draft. The real trick, is going to be in finding a PG who is pass-first and defensive minded. A PG who probably has a little more weight but is athletic enough to move side to side.

How many times do you see teams gather primarily athletic players and then continuously fail to do anything with them? More often than not. The good teams, have balance between athleticism and skill. And the good teams have at least one superstar. Hawes is not a superstar. But I saw no potential superstars in any of the players that were left.


Lets take a look at the San Antonio Spurs. They have built a system that can defend against the best, and score with the best. That is why they are perennial winners. Is every player a defensive specialist? Not even close. Bowen and Duncan were pretty much their only defenders, with a little defensive contribution from Oberto. But if you look at the boxscores, you won't find the stat sheet filled with steals or blocked shots. They play TEAM DEFENSE. And they do it well.

Between Duncan, Oberto and Elson, they combine as a frontcourt to contribute about : 30 pts, 20 rebs, 5 ast, 1.5 stl, 3.5 blk

Say that in his prime Hawes can contribute: 18 pts, 8 rebs, 4 ast, .5 stl, and .5 blk.

That means we need two guys that can contribute 12/12 with 3 more blks and 1 stl, if we want to be as productive as San Antonio. Doesn't seem that tough anymore. You might even be able to get that out of ONE guy if he is a top 5 pick. I can even see Justin Williams being able to contribute about 6 pts, 8 rebs, 2 blks in his future.

Maybe this is all pointless speculation. But it is no more pointless than suggesting that he's a bust and a bad pick before we've even seen the kid on the court.

Great post.

 

[Greg Ostertag]

For those who knock Hawes' rebounding, let's look at Nick Collison. Collison averaged around 6rpg in both his freshman and sophomore season at Kansas. Now I'm not saying Collison is a stud, but merely showing that rebounding can be worked on and improved upon.

He does not have short arms. Standing reach is two inches shorter than Odens, 3 inches taller than Jason Smiths.

This post is not meant to be a yay Spencer Hawes is going to be great post, because we don't know. None of us do. We are all making assumptions, which is easy to do. This was just meant to show those who knock his rebounding stats, that it's not as if he can't improve that aspect of his game.

I think his arsenal of moves in the post can help him elude more athletic bigs, much like Vlade did.

 

[HndsmCelt]

You don't think this is a bad pick when players are going to posterized Hawes? Like I said in another post, maybe they should have just stuck with Miller.

Keep looking at the small picture it's much easier than trying to understand how team dynamics and player interaction works. This is after all an individual sport where the only thing that really matters are highligh reels, and MVP awards.

 

[hiero]

Nice quote from an article in the bee.

"He's feisty. When people try to challenge him or try to punk him, he doesn't back down."

Seriously nobody in their right mind would ever say that about Brad Miller, even when he was in his prime.

 

[BMiller52]

Sound similar?

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/chrismihm.htm

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/robertswift.asp

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/joelprzybilla.htm

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/rafaelaraujo.asp

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/spencerhawes.html

 

[Rain man]

Little Recap of the GP interivew

On selecting Hawes: Going forward its important tot get young big guys in the pipeline. 19 ys old and has a terrific feel for the game. Going forward it was a great pick for what they want to do in the future

Generally guys do get better mature, continue to grow, has all the skills needed to play his position now. Had terrific season as a fresh in the Pac10

Have to have a center, going further…. they’re hard to find

And that is I think the argument for the pick of Hawes. it should be no surprise by now that I like the pick, and I think it shows a real sign of a rebuild.

This team has no chance of competing the next 2-3 years. There are just too many mismatched parts, bad contracts, and no cap room. No draft pick (save Oden) was going to change that. With that in mind, the goal is to build a team that will be competitive in 2009 (when Miller, KT, Bibby are all off the books).

When you look at the roster- which players are likely to be on the team for the 2009-2010 season. Not KT, not Brad, not Miller, and not Artest, not Reef. Guys that will likely be here- Martin, Garcia, Williams/Price (hopefully), maybe Salmons.

Essentially- if you are looking to build the 2009 roster you have the following starting lineup

C-
PF-
SF- Garcia (if he devlops as many think he will, he will be a solid starter)
SG- Martin
PG-

Then you have Salmons, Williams, and Price as bench role players. So if the goal is to build for 2009 you draft pieces that you will need in 2009, not pieces you need in 2007. So if you think we have no need for Hawes because of Miller, that might be true in 2007, but not in 2009. Plus, that gives Hawes three years of grooming to be ready.

If the 2009 roster includes Salmons and Garcia (with a starter quality Garcia) there is NO REASON to take Julian Wright. You are just amassing a glut of one position for the future. If you are Geoff, and you are really building for OUR future, you take the C/PF/PG that has the most likeihood of being a solid starter in 3 years. With his post moves and polish, that might be Hawes. The hope is that by 2009, with a few more lotteries and cap space, you have found the athletic defensive PF to put next to him that we never had for Brad.

The future is very VERY bleak for the next 3 years. Until we get some of these contracts off the book, we have nothign going for us. Trading Brad and KT isn't really an option, and while we have them, I don't think we can be a good team (too much money for declining skills).

I think any GM running our team would have to concede that, and look to start building the team for 2009. I think taking Hawes is a sign of that.

 

[yaboy]

Sound similar?

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/chrismihm.htm

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/robertswift.asp

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/joelprzybilla.htm

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/rafaelaraujo.asp

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/spencerhawes.html

LOL i think Chris Mihm and Spencer Hawes resemble one another.

 

[vfettke]

I’m starting to come around to the guy. Haven’t seen much of him but he’s supposed to be an excellent post player and a pretty good passer. Everyone’s complaining about his lack of defense but we’re not a defensive team. If we’re trying to build around our youngsters who are, with the exception of two, more offensive minded players, then it makes sense to add another guy, especially a big, who is good on offense. Everyone forgets that we need a big guy on offense too, because our bigs last year got tortured inside and just couldn’t hold it down on offense.

Adding a great post player may very well help us, especially if we are more of an offensive team, which we are. Argue it all you want, but with the people on this team, we’re more about offense than defense. Having Ron Artest, one of the games premier defenders, does not make us a defensive powerhouse. If we get rid of him, then all we have left as far as decent defenders is Garcia and Williams.

So why don’t we forget the whole “our defense is terrible” shtick. Of course it is terrible. We don’t have guys that play great defense. We have guys that can play great offense, but were put into a crappy system with a crappy coach who “stressed” defense with cool slogans on banners and t-shirts. The idea of us being a defensive team is just ridiculous at this point. So let’s just shut up and wait for the season to start and see what happens

 

[hrdboild]

So why don’t we forget the whole “our defense is terrible” shtick. Of course it is terrible. We don’t have guys that play great defense. We have guys that can play great offense, but were put into a crappy system with a crappy coach who “stressed” defense with cool slogans on banners and t-shirts. The idea of us being a defensive team is just ridiculous at this point. So let’s just shut up and wait for the season to start and see what happens

So why are we drafting another player who can't play defense? Right now we don't have the players to be a good defensive team. So shouldn't we, you know, go acquire some? The #10 pick is potentially one of the best ways for teams to acquire good players. Caron Butler, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce. (all shooting guards or small forwards by the way) We just brought in another player for 4 years or more who can't play defense. That's not how you get better. (Although looking at the last 5 drafts, it seems like the #10 pick is the kiss of death).

 

[BMiller52]

LOL i think Chris Mihm and Spencer Hawes resemble one another.

In every freaking way imaginable. Even play in the same state.

 

[cfechter]

In every freaking way imaginable. Even play in the same state.

Not really - Chris MIhm averaged 50% more boards and 50% more blocks in his freshman year.

 

[captain bill]

Sound similar?

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/chrismihm.htm

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/robertswift.asp

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/joelprzybilla.htm

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/rafaelaraujo.asp

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/spencerhawes.html

the only thing in common between those guys is that they are tall white guys who didn't work out in the nba, or at least, never became stars. if you are grouping hawes with these guys because he's white and tall, well, i guess your stunning logic proves why dirk nowitzki (a no 9 pick, big white dude with an offensive game and questionable athleticism), andrew bogut, vlade divac, zydrunas ilgauskas, brad miller, and larry bird all sucked.

chris mihm has a similar sounding profile, the offensive game, but without the work ethic and ball handling skills. robert swift is described as a shot blocker and rebounder. prz is described as a good shot blocker with a decent post game, but question marks in all other areas. arauja is athletic and plays a physical game.

spencer hawes plays with touch and skill, not overpowering athleticism. he is an average rebounder. he set the washington record for blocks by a freshman.

reading through those profiles, yes, they sound familiar, but only because all center prospects are evaluated on the same things, but if you actually read the profiles (which at this point i seriously doubt) you would see the difference between all those players listed.

i really get the feeling that if this guy wasn't white people would be drooling all over him. not that im accusing anyone of racism or anything, it might even be natural considering that people are used to seeing their dominant lane presence as big black men (webber, shaq, garnett, duncan, etc) and simply jump to conclusions based on their immediate reactions to what a player looks like and the secondhand crap they hear from an espn analyst, which 9 times out of 10 is not based on any sort of intellegent analysis (even if said analyst happens to get lucky and turns out to be right).

so im gonna trust geoff on this one because anyone who has watched the kings in the past decade or so has seen what an amazing eye for talent he has, and that he knows how to make talent fit together. the kings from 2001-2003 fielded some of the most well-assembled and complementary teams i have personally seen assembled, so ill take the opinion of the man who designed those teams over the panicked reactions of fans who are afraid of white big men.

 

[nbrans]

For those who knock Hawes' rebounding, let's look at Nick Collison. Collison averaged around 6rpg in both his freshman and sophomore season at Kansas. Now I'm not saying Collison is a stud, but merely showing that rebounding can be worked on and improved upon.

He does not have short arms. Standing reach is two inches shorter than Odens, 3 inches taller than Jason Smiths.

This post is not meant to be a yay Spencer Hawes is going to be great post, because we don't know. None of us do. We are all making assumptions, which is easy to do. This was just meant to show those who knock his rebounding stats, that it's not as if he can't improve that aspect of his game.

I think his arsenal of moves in the post can help him elude more athletic bigs, much like Vlade did.

Collison had 6.9 rebounds in 22 minutes his freshman year. Hawes had 6.4 in 28.9. That's a really big difference. That's 12.5 rebounds per/40 for Collison and 8.9 for Hawes.

 

[BMiller52]

the only thing in common between those guys is that they are tall white guys who didn't work out in the nba, or at least, never became stars. if you are grouping hawes with these guys because he's white and tall, well, i guess your stunning logic proves why dirk nowitzki (a no 9 pick, big white dude with an offensive game and questionable athleticism), andrew bogut, vlade divac, zydrunas ilgauskas, brad miller, and larry bird all sucked.

Bogut is taller and stronger. Ilgauskas was bigger. Miller was good but then he lost whatever athleticism he had. Vlade had size+more height. Bird wasn't unathletic at all. Hawes is a lot closer to Araujo than he is to those guys.