Kings Don't Look Very Oklahoma Thunderish....Circa 2008-09....

[The Hammer]

Chicago is not a contender fighting for playoff position. Chicag is the BEST team in the league right now (Lakers are a very close second). 3 of the teams the Kings beat were fighting for playoff position. Don't get it twisted.

Agreed.

Isn't it funny how you post something positive... and immediately the three most notoriously negative kingsfans come on here and try to knock it down. Just interesting.

 

[The Hammer]

But we had a shooter and traded him away because "it didnt work". Now we have another one who needs the ball in his hands more than the one we had.

And the wisdom overfloweth.

You're right. We don't need a shooter. Or, wait... I suppose you'd say our ROY future superstar is the problem right? By the way how's was that former shooter's defense? Pretty good right? Your negativity astounds.

 

[mr. moustache]

And the wisdom overfloweth.

You're right. We don't need a shooter. Or, wait... I suppose you'd say our ROY future superstar is the problem right? By the way how's was that former shooter's defense? Pretty good right? Your negativity astounds.

Not to mention Martin makes 10m+ a year. We don't need that. If Thorton's going to make 10m+ a year; we don't need that either.

 

[Larry David]

I will agree that the Kings have a slight issue, because their two best players seem to be natural shooting guards.

But things are looking up and the team is about to leave ... so yes, they look very much like Sonics/Thunder

 

[Superman]

Not to mention Martin makes 10m+ a year. We don't need that. If Thorton's going to make 10m+ a year; we don't need that either.

No, let's mention that, please.

 

[Gary]

Marcus thronton is NOT a ball dominant guard. Nor an offense dominant guard. Being able to dribble and chew gum at the same time is not ball dominant -- its potent. He scores quickly, rarely sits on the ball for more than a few seconds. He had no problems doing his thing playing next to Beno, who controlled the ball most of the time.

We will have to differ on how we feel Thorton is. To me whether he holds the ball 5 seconds before shooting or 23 seconds he's ball dominant. There were issues with Thorton and Paul getting along in the system in NO because og Thorton's play style (that and he didn't defend very well).

hopefully he makes a change in Sac and Tyreke can play well with him.

 

[est.1999]

I heard that maybe Paul might be the diva type and had the Hornets ship out Collison and got Thornton into the dog house but I don't know how much of it I buy.

And how can someone who holds the ball for 5 seconds or 23 seconds be ball dominant either way?

 

[Section 101]

Apparently the Kings had Lil Wayne playing for them against the 76ers.

http://philly.barstoolsports.com/ar...yne-concert-before-losing-noon-game-to-kings/

 

[mac]

Philly beat the Bulls and the Pacers beat the Celtics. But I suppose the Bulls and Celtics are barely playoff teams.

 

[Rookie]

The winning was great, but personally I'm not thrill about it. The two main contributors had been playing very hard and very well are the two guys that need new contract. I highly doubt that WP is motivating these two.

WP still can't coach, our young core regressed this year.

I still love the team and believe what we got now and a future SF draft would be the best group of young players to build around. I just can't see it happening with WP and would be disappointed if he is given the opportunity to destroy the rebuilding process.

 

[mcsluggo]

Marcus thronton is NOT a ball dominant guard. Nor an offense dominant guard. Being able to dribble and chew gum at the same time is not ball dominant -- its potent. He scores quickly, rarely sits on the ball for more than a few seconds. He had no problems doing his thing playing next to Beno, who controlled the ball most of the time.

it is still a fair point, though. Thorton's super-ermergence has come in the form of a volume shooter. He has been putting up as many, or perhaps even more, shots as Evans normally did back when he was healthy (if any of us can remember that long ago). Cousins puts up a ton-o-shots. Even Dally has seemed inclined to view himself as a 12-ish shots a game player....

when evans comes back full steam, it is going to take some finnese and diplomacy to tweak them all into being good complimentary players to each others strengths. Not saying that they can't do it.... but i WILL say I sure as hell wish (more than ever) that Capt. Adelman was on the bench right now. I would have COPMPLETE confidence that a beautiful offense would emerge from these players under his tutalage. I am a bit less confident that such a thing will emerge under the current regime.



edit, on the other hand... under this group I AM liking good ole Jason T more and more...someone who is actually HAPPY to just be an energizer bunny and do the muscle things... but has enough of a hint of a shot to force other teams to stay honest with him. (i do wish he would start to kick his offensive boards back out to the guards more often, though--- he seems like he is about a 30% shooter on put-backs--ugh)

 

[mr. moustache]

Philly beat the Bulls and the Pacers beat the Celtics. But I suppose the Bulls and Celtics are barely playoff teams.

That is such spectacularly bad logic.

 

[Kingsguy881]

That is such spectacularly bad logic.

But the reverse was used as an argument and he was countering it.

 

[Bricklayer]

it is still a fair point, though. Thorton's super-ermergence has come in the form of a volume shooter. He has been putting up as many, or perhaps even more, shots as Evans normally did back when he was healthy (if any of us can remember that long ago). Cousins puts up a ton-o-shots. Even Dally has seemed inclined to view himself as a 12-ish shots a game player....

when evans comes back full steam, it is going to take some finnese and diplomacy to tweak them all into being good complimentary players to each others strengths. Not saying that they can't do it.... but i WILL say I sure as hell wish (more than ever) that Capt. Adelman was on the bench right now. I would have COPMPLETE confidence that a beautiful offense would emerge from these players under his tutalage. I am a bit less confident that such a thing will emerge under the current regime.



edit, on the other hand... under this group I AM liking good ole Jason T more and more...someone who is actually HAPPY to just be an energizer bunny and do the muscle things... but has enough of a hint of a shot to force other teams to stay honest with him. (i do wish he would start to kick his offensive boards back out to the guards more often, though--- he seems like he is about a 30% shooter on put-backs--ugh)

without disagreeing with the going to take some finesse to get everybody on the same page bit, here's the critical difference: with Kevin Martin you have to play his way for any value. He has to be a volume shooter yes, but its more than that. You have to play Martin basketball to get value from him. And that determines much of the rest of your game. You will score a lot, he will flop a lot, you will leak out, you won't play defense, you will use a lot of energy, time, and plays to feature him. It is not exactly shocking to me that Houston has rapidly been Martinized by his presense, that various fprmer core guys have been jettisoned, and that they are now a defenseless try to outscore you run and flop crew. That's before we get to the chemsitry question with a guy who exudes softness and passiveness, or maybe even passive aggressiveness. However you define it -- no passion. No firerceness. Kevin in his own way is a defining player, requiring specific personnel and stylistic choices.

Thronton makes no such apparent demands on the offense. He does not hold the ball, he does not need particular plays run for him, he looks to be a contributor all over the floor in every aspect. He is potent off the ball, and able to quickly create his own offense when he has it, and from almost anyplace on the floor. All of which means this -- while Thornton has been a volume shooter, he would be valuable even if he is NOT a volume shooter. Even if Kevin had not gone into an apparent pouty funk once he was no longer being featured, Kevin Martin, and of course in particular at his $$$, is not a guy who has value as a 15ppg scorer. He HAS to be featured on offense to make up for all the ways you lose with him out there otherwise. Thornton on the other hand looks to have the game to be a contributor without the megascoring, if that's the way it works out. He could even be BJax or Manu pop off the bench -- that big pow! pickmeup you can actually feel when the guy comes into the game firing.

Thronton could still make it all not work out if he turns out to be a prima donna, if he's not willing to dial it back a few points a game in order to be part of a three headed monster for years to come. But there is nothing about his game that suggests o demands that. He is the OPPOSITE of ball dominant. His potential value is precisely in that he is not. Since he does not hold the ball, can be potent form all parts of the floor, and does other things for you, there is nothing about his game that needs to interfere with anybody else's game. Reke can do his thing, Cousins can do his thing, and Thornton does not have to lose much of anything from his own game in the process, nor interfere with the others. Ball starts with the others, even if they take 12 seconds doing their thing, Thornton is a classic guy to be able to quickly make something happen when he does get it. The possession does not need to be about him for him to score.

All of this though is why I think guys like Daly, JT, a Kirilenko type figure etc. are the completing players for this team. If Thornton is wiling to dial it back half a notch, all the shots will still be accounted for by a well defined big three. Which is perfect BTW. Because it means that everybody else, or almsost everybody else, can now start being those invaluable defensive/spot shooting roleplayers that good teams always have. With your scoring all in place, now the rest of your personnel moves can be centered around getting guys who will help you win all the other aspects. You've got your Duncan and Parker and Manu on offense, now you get to have fun and add your Bowens.

 

[mac]

But the reverse was used as an argument and he was countering it.

thank you.

 

[mac]

without disagreeing with the going to take some finesse to get everybody on the same page bit, here's the critical difference: with Kevin Martin you have to play his way for any value. He has to be a volume shooter yes, but its more than that. You have to play Martin basketball to get value from him. And that determines much of the rest of your game. You will score a lot, he will flop a lot, you will leak out, you won't play defense, you will use a lot of energy, time, and plays to feature him. It is not exactly shocking to me that Houston has rapidly been Martinized by his presense, that various fprmer core guys have been jettisoned, and that they are now a defenseless try to outscore you run and flop crew. That's before we get to the chemsitry question with a guy who exudes softness and passiveness, or maybe even passive aggressiveness. However you define it -- no passion. No firerceness. Kevin in his own way is a defining player, requiring specific personnel and stylistic choices.

Thronton makes no such apparent demands on the offense. He does not hold the ball, he does not need particular plays run for him, he looks to be a contributor all over the floor in every aspect. He is potent off the ball, and able to quickly create his own offense when he has it, and from almost anyplace on the floor. All of which means this -- while Thornton has been a volume shooter, he would be valuable even if he is NOT a volume shooter. Even if Kevin had not gone into an apparent pouty funk once he was no longer being featured, Kevin Martin, and of course in particular at his $$$, is not a guy who has value as a 15ppg scorer. He HAS to be featured on offense to make up for all the ways you lose with him out there otherwise. Thornton on the other hand looks to have the game to be a contributor without the megascoring, if that's the way it works out. He could even be BJax or Manu pop off the bench -- that big pow! pickmeup you can actually feel when the guy comes into the game firing.

Thronton could still make it all not work out if he turns out to be a prima donna, if he's not willing to dial it back a few points a game in order to be part of a three headed monster for years to come. But there is nothing about his game that suggests o demands that. He is the OPPOSITE of ball dominant. His potential value is precisely in that he is not. Since he does not hold the ball, can be potent form all parts of the floor, and does other things for you, there is nothing about his game that needs to interfere with anybody else's game. Reke can do his thing, Cousins can do his thing, and Thornton does not have to lose much of anything from his own game in the process, nor interfere with the others. Ball starts with the others, even if they take 12 seconds doing their thing, Thornton is a classic guy to be able to quickly make something happen when he does get it. The possession does not need to be about him for him to score.

All of this though is why I think guys like Daly, JT, a Kirilenko type figure etc. are the completing players for this team. If Thornton is wiling to dial it back half a notch, all the shots will still be accounted for by a well defined big three. Which is perfect BTW. Because it means that everybody else, or almsost everybody else, can now start being those invaluable defensive/spot shooting roleplayers that good teams always have. With your scoring all in place, now the rest of your personnel moves can be centered around getting guys who will help you win all the other aspects. You've got your Duncan and Parker and Manu on offense, now you get to have fun and add your Bowens.

Thornton's rebounding and hustle pretty much sum it up for me. Against the Suns Thornton got an offensive rebound and tried for a follow dunk, missed it, and followed it up another 2 times before making the basket. I don't think I ever saw Kevin Martin do that in all his years in Sac.

Another thing that I feel is sometimes overlooked is simple team chemistry. You can say what you want about how Kevin or Thornton's skill sets and playing styles fit with Tyreke and the rest of the team, but the fact of the matter is that if guys just somehow don't have good chemistry, they aren't going to play well together, especially on a young team lacking experience. We've seen Thornton show that he can likely be a very valuable piece that can play off of Cousins and Tyreke, but most importantly the guys seem to like him and they're all sharing the ball and playing good basketball at this point.

 

[mr. moustache]

Thornton's rebounding and hustle pretty much sum it up for me. Against the Suns Thornton got an offensive rebound and tried for a follow dunk, missed it, and followed it up another 2 times before making the basket. I don't think I ever saw Kevin Martin do that in all his years in Sac.

Another thing that I feel is sometimes overlooked is simple team chemistry. You can say what you want about how Kevin or Thornton's skill sets and playing styles fit with Tyreke and the rest of the team, but the fact of the matter is that if guys just somehow don't have good chemistry, they aren't going to play well together, especially on a young team lacking experience. We've seen Thornton show that he can likely be a very valuable piece that can play off of Cousins and Tyreke, but most importantly the guys seem to like him and they're all sharing the ball and playing good basketball at this point.

He's been rusty, but I've liked how Evans has been playing since coming back. Much more of a facilitator and less of a ball pounder. He also seems to know when to drop his head and plow to the basket. It's early, and he's coming off the bench, but the new Tyreke is a better fit for these Kings.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Not to mention Thornton is 10x TOUGHER than Martin, with the baller attitude to go with it.....

 

[Kingster]

Not to mention Thornton is 10x TOUGHER than Martin, with the baller attitude to go with it.....

And you get the prize. No question about it, Thornton is tougher. It's not how many shots he makes, it's WHEN he makes those shots and in what circumstances he makes those shots.