[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

Mark Medina @MarkG_Medina
preseason : Kings-Blazers (Dec 11, 1030 pm, ESPN), Lakers-Clippers (Dec 13, 830 pm, ESPN), Celtics-Sixers (Dec 15, 730 pm, TNT), Warriors-Kings (Dec 15, 10 pm, TNT), Kings-Warriors (Dec 17, 9 pm, ESPN), Nets-Celtics (Dec 18, 8 pm, ESPN2) Lakers-Suns (Dec 18, 1030 pm, ESPN)

Ah yeah!
I know it's just preseason, but three ESPN/TNT nationally televised games? Isn't that more than we got all of last year, not counting the bubble games? Will this carry over to the regular season?
 
Ok, I see GSW called up Houston asking about Harden. So, how about this 3-team trade.

1. Sacramento
In: Wiggins, GSW's 2021 pick, Minnesota's 2021 pick.
Out: Barnes, Buddy, Whiteside

2. GSW
In: Harden
Out: Wiggins, Wiseman, GSW's 2021 pick, Minnesota's 2021 pick.

3. Houson
In: Barnes, Hield, Wiseman
Out: Harden

Except for the picks, which I am not sure how they would affect the salary, this works on the trade machine: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

Why for Sac: picks, helps the tank.
Why for GSW: Harden adds a superstar to play with Curry.
Why for Houston: moves Harden, saves money with Hield's declining contract. I think Barnes and Hield could compliment Westbrook. Get a promising rookie in Wiseman. I think of all the teams involved, Houston comes out the worst. Probably Minnesota's pick should go to Houston and maybe Sac gets Houston's pick.

Ok, I'm new to this. Haha. But I love to daydream.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
Ok, I see GSW called up Houston asking about Harden. So, how about this 3-team trade.

1. Sacramento
In: Wiggins, GSW's 2021 pick, Minnesota's 2021 pick.
Out: Barnes, Buddy, Whiteside

2. GSW
In: Harden
Out: Wiggins, Wiseman, GSW's 2021 pick, Minnesota's 2021 pick.

3. Houson
In: Barnes, Hield, Wiseman
Out: Harden

Except for the picks, which I am not sure how they would affect the salary, this works on the trade machine: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

Why for Sac: picks, helps the tank.
Why for GSW: Harden adds a superstar to play with Curry.
Why for Houston: moves Harden, saves money with Hield's declining contract. I think Barnes and Hield could compliment Westbrook. Get a promising rookie in Wiseman. I think of all the teams involved, Houston comes out the worst. Probably Minnesota's pick should go to Houston and maybe Sac gets Houston's pick.

Ok, I'm new to this. Haha. But I love to daydream.
Well, we can't trade Whiteside just yet because we just signed him, but it doesn't seem as if you actually sent him anywhere. Picks don't affect salary, but it look to me like the Rockets would have to send out a bit more than Harden in order to make this happen. They would have to add either Danuel House or P.J. Tucker. The Warriors would be able to take House back, but not Tucker - Tucker would have to come to us.

Also to be noted that Wiseman signed his deal 4 days ago, so he can't be traded for another 26 days. This deal would have to wait until in-season to happen.

I suppose that the question for us is how dedicated we are to the tank. This trade would almost certainly put us square in Tank City, and the GSW pick would likely be lousy with Harden/Curry together. We would save somewhere upwards of $40M overall, but at a serious cost in talent given what Wiggins has been lately. The Minny pick is really the only strong reason to do the deal, in my eyes.

The Warriors would have to decide what they think of Wiseman. They may end up liking him enough to make the deal unpalatable. Perhaps not.

Houston does end up picking up a decent amount of salary here. But they would find it easier to move either Barnes or Hield (bothon declining contracts) alone than moving Harden or Westbrook, and they'd get Wiseman, so I can see them biting without a pick included (Wiseman is essentially a fresh #2 pick, right?), particularly if they feel under the gun to deal Harden away. They might not get a better package.
 
Well, we can't trade Whiteside just yet because we just signed him, but it doesn't seem as if you actually sent him anywhere. Picks don't affect salary, but it look to me like the Rockets would have to send out a bit more than Harden in order to make this happen. They would have to add either Danuel House or P.J. Tucker. The Warriors would be able to take House back, but not Tucker - Tucker would have to come to us.

Also to be noted that Wiseman signed his deal 4 days ago, so he can't be traded for another 26 days. This deal would have to wait until in-season to happen.

I suppose that the question for us is how dedicated we are to the tank. This trade would almost certainly put us square in Tank City, and the GSW pick would likely be lousy with Harden/Curry together. We would save somewhere upwards of $40M overall, but at a serious cost in talent given what Wiggins has been lately. The Minny pick is really the only strong reason to do the deal, in my eyes.

The Warriors would have to decide what they think of Wiseman. They may end up liking him enough to make the deal unpalatable. Perhaps not.

Houston does end up picking up a decent amount of salary here. But they would find it easier to move either Barnes or Hield (bothon declining contracts) alone than moving Harden or Westbrook, and they'd get Wiseman, so I can see them biting without a pick included (Wiseman is essentially a fresh #2 pick, right?), particularly if they feel under the gun to deal Harden away. They might not get a better package.
Good points! I think I had intended to send Whiteside to GSW, figuring they would need a big man with Wiseman gone. But I didn't figure Whiteside was indispensable to GSW's interests.

GSW may love Wiseman, but if they are serious about competing this year, as Curry has indicated, Wiseman doesn't fit that timeline.
 
Ok, I see GSW called up Houston asking about Harden. So, how about this 3-team trade.

1. Sacramento
In: Wiggins, GSW's 2021 pick, Minnesota's 2021 pick.
Out: Barnes, Buddy, Whiteside

2. GSW
In: Harden
Out: Wiggins, Wiseman, GSW's 2021 pick, Minnesota's 2021 pick.

3. Houson
In: Barnes, Hield, Wiseman
Out: Harden

Except for the picks, which I am not sure how they would affect the salary, this works on the trade machine: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

Why for Sac: picks, helps the tank.
Why for GSW: Harden adds a superstar to play with Curry.
Why for Houston: moves Harden, saves money with Hield's declining contract. I think Barnes and Hield could compliment Westbrook. Get a promising rookie in Wiseman. I think of all the teams involved, Houston comes out the worst. Probably Minnesota's pick should go to Houston and maybe Sac gets Houston's pick.

Ok, I'm new to this. Haha. But I love to daydream.
Kings would do this in a heartbeat. Rockets are rumoured to look for a motherload offer so they would never give up Harden for a young center and two huge neutral value contracts.

I like the idea of Kings facilitating some of these type of deals and getting even something in return for Barnes and/or Buddy. Maximize your odds to get Cunningham or whoever else looks to be the franchise player. To me losing Barnes for future assets would only be a good thing. He is an average starting wing and his potential is exactly what he is at this moment but by just being an average vet he will help this team to increase its winning% from 31 to 39 and thus weakening our chances of getting the all star via draft that we desperately need. You can get a Barnes level player via free agency any time by just paying that 80mil to an average 6'8 starter. Get the all star first, then get the expensive role players after you are actually ready to compete.

I really hope thats what Monte is planning, its exactly the plan that I've been suggesting for multiple years now. Every year we refuse to do it and it just means a year longer of the classic Kings: "potentially 39 win team and nothing more, drafting 7th or higher and never getting even close to getting two really high potential players to build on". It just has to be done eventually, I just hope we wont do the same mistake with Fox that we did with Cousins: desperately trying to grab that 8th seed too fast without patiently building for the future and getting two difference making players in the roster. Again: you can sign Barnses, Afflalos, Rondos, Kostas, Buddys any time by just paying them these huge contracts. The problem is that players that truly determine your success are star level players and its extremely difficult to get young star level players without drafting them.
 
Ok, I see GSW called up Houston asking about Harden. So, how about this 3-team trade.

1. Sacramento
In: Wiggins, GSW's 2021 pick, Minnesota's 2021 pick.
Out: Barnes, Buddy, Whiteside

2. GSW
In: Harden
Out: Wiggins, Wiseman, GSW's 2021 pick, Minnesota's 2021 pick.

3. Houson
In: Barnes, Hield, Wiseman
Out: Harden

Except for the picks, which I am not sure how they would affect the salary, this works on the trade machine: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

Why for Sac: picks, helps the tank.
Why for GSW: Harden adds a superstar to play with Curry.
Why for Houston: moves Harden, saves money with Hield's declining contract. I think Barnes and Hield could compliment Westbrook. Get a promising rookie in Wiseman. I think of all the teams involved, Houston comes out the worst. Probably Minnesota's pick should go to Houston and maybe Sac gets Houston's pick.

Ok, I'm new to this. Haha. But I love to daydream.
I think Houston would want the picks, which leaves us without any incentive to take on Wiggins.
 
Some chirping about the 76ers being interested in Buddy again, I'd really dislike getting Hariis albatross back in return, sure he's a really good player, but that salary is just too bad.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
Some chirping about the 76ers being interested in Buddy again, I'd really dislike getting Hariis albatross back in return, sure he's a really good player, but that salary is just too bad.
Salarywise, they don't have a lot of options. They'd probably want to send Horford. But it's not like they have any good picks to send us - they only have their own (high 20s) picks. I can see us insisting on getting Thybulle since their draft assets aren't too great.
 
Salarywise, they don't have a lot of options. They'd probably want to send Horford. But it's not like they have any good picks to send us - they only have their own (high 20s) picks. I can see us insisting on getting Thybulle since their draft assets aren't too great.
They've all ready moved Al I think becomes official December 8th?, but I'd decline even if we sent Barnes out too. They don't have much to offer in expiring salary either.

Afraid we'd have to take Harris back, I think that would be a mistake.
 
No way to taking Harris back. We think Buddy and Barnes aren’t good contracts? Dude’s making 36 million a year for the next 4 seasons.
Agreed.

The one comfort is McNair saying flexibility, but that's the only way I see a Philly deal working with us unless it's a 3 team trade.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
They've all ready moved Al I think becomes official December 8th?, but I'd decline even if we sent Barnes out too. They don't have much to offer in expiring salary either.

Afraid we'd have to take Harris back, I think that would be a mistake.
I totally forgot about that.

Yep, you're right, they're really strapped for contracts to fit with us for a Buddy trade. Maybe they're thinking of reworking that trade with the Thunder to get Buddy and send Green/Ferguson our way? I mean, it's still not like they have the draft assets necessary to make us bite on that.
 
Would anyone else do this? I think I might . Leave with a lineup of
Fox/Cojo
Harden/Halliburton/James
Barnes/Robinson/Jeffries
Nemanja/Kaminsky
Whiteside/Holmes

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/12...trade-creates-james-harden-deaaron-fox-duo/2/
NO, we giving up too much for a aging player that shown he can't play with other stars or take a team far into the playoffs. 4 first round picks is a lot, remember we have a competent front office now we can trust with those picks. Bagley could also break out this season, he just needs to stay healthy. Harden would make our team unwatchable and hinder Fox's development, he just signed his supermax to be our franchise player.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
If we ever did a big deal like this, I would hope we look at which other superstar would be available. I think it’s difficult to put a team together with Harden
Agree. It’s not hard to imagine McNair accomplishing this type of deal, but not this target. I also don’t see him trading more than two 1sts. I think the profile McNair will be going after is a midcareer fringe All-Star, or better, who has at least two years left on his rookie max extension. Guys like Booker or KAT in the near term. Or, down the road, if something weird happens in Miami we’d be looking at Bam. Ingram, when things go sideways in New Orleans. Jokic, if Denver stalls.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
Would anyone else do this? I think I might . Leave with a lineup of
Fox/Cojo
Harden/Halliburton/James
Barnes/Robinson/Jeffries
Nemanja/Kaminsky
Whiteside/Holmes

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/12...trade-creates-james-harden-deaaron-fox-duo/2/
It's completely insane. But I guess that when the person who made up the trade seems to think that Bagley and Parker have equivalent value, you can't expect too much. I'm pretty sure the secret Rockets fan who wrote this up kind of gave away the game on the fourth page when he said:

Anyone who would not do this deal is a bit nuts. Four first-round picks are impossible to turn down.
Yes, when the deal you invented is impossible to turn down for your team, maybe, just maybe, the other team isn't going to be interested in doing it.
 
It's completely insane. But I guess that when the person who made up the trade seems to think that Bagley and Parker have equivalent value, you can't expect too much. I'm pretty sure the secret Rockets fan who wrote this up kind of gave away the game on the fourth page when he said:



Yes, when the deal you invented is impossible to turn down for your team, maybe, just maybe, the other team isn't going to be interested in doing it.
that’s probably going to the going rate for a top 5 player
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
did you see what Holiday fetched? Why wouldn’t harden fetch this?
I did see what Holiday fetched. First, that was a massive overpay - basically every single person who saw the trade gasped in disbelief when they saw it. We shouldn't be beholden to other teams' overpays. Second, the Bucks picks being sent are expected to be between like #27 and #30. Building a team out of Harden, Fox, and not a lot of other proven top-line talent isn't exactly a recipe for automatic success, especially when those two would take up almost 70% of the team's salary cap for two straight years (and with Barnes, that's like 85-90% for three players). There's a decent chance a Harden-Fox-Barnes-cheap filler (coached by Walton??) team craters and doesn't make the playoffs, meaning we could be sending lottery picks, not consolation picks in the high 20s. Third, the players we would be sending off in this deal are not exactly equivalent. Bledsoe and Buddy is basically a push - Bledsoe is a bit older and almost as expensive, but a bit better right now. I'd say Buddy is likely to age better, because shooting doesn't go away when the athleticism drops off. But Hill is nothing but salary filler, while Bagley is a young stud, has a decent chance of being an all-star before his current contract is up, and then the Rockets would have extension possibilities and RFA rights on him.

I mean, the Rockets could *ask* that, but there's no way on earth we should give it to them. Or anything close, frankly.