kings' chance

tyrant

tyrant

Starter
http://www.insidehoops.com/western-conference-092605.shtml

Nice little read i found on spursreport. A few things about the teams in the west and why or why they don't stand a chance at making it to the finals. They have other teams' listed. visit the link for more


Sacramento Kings
Why the can: Sacramento, the owners of the proverbial "window of opportunity," still see it a crack open. Geoff Petrie has done a great job of re-establishing the once west powerhouse into a contender again. After losing Vlade Divac, Chris Webber, Doug Christie, Bobby Jackson, Greg Ostertag and Darius Songaila, the Kings made a few tricky moves to stay in the thick of things. They were able to bring in Shareef Abdur-Rahim out of the blue after his deal fell through with the Nets, they were able to move oft-injured Bobby Jackson for oft-cranky Bonzi Wells (cranky and playing is still more productive than happy yet injured as Jackson always was), and they did well to get backup point guard Jason Hart from Charlotte. The starting five of Brad Miller, Abdur-Rahim, Peja Stojakovic, Wells and Mike Bibby is formidable, and with players like Corliss Williamson, Kenny Thomas, and Hart coming off the bench, the Kings may be one or two players away from very serious title contention.

Why they can't: They're too small. Even when Sacramento was at the top of their game, people pointed to the fact that their big men didn't play physically outside, instead opting for a precision offense using jump shots and passing. Now, the Kings not only don't have inside presence, they lost the size too. Outside of Brad Miller, nobody on the Kings regular rotation is over 6-10, and the one that is 6-10, Peja Stojakovic, is a very outside oriented perimeter shooter. They don't have the size and physicality to match San Antonio's bulk, and this will ultimately cost them in the playoffs again, when those difficult clutch shots won't fall from 20 feet away.
 
Basically half and half on "can't".

Some of it I think is too early to judge/say (October, rest of this month), and don't agree with.
 
i would agree that we don't play big in the paint, but we never have (even with the healthy c-webb and vlade). we were always a perimeter team. it got us to game 7 of the WCF. the article reads that brad miller is our only 7-footer, but we have recently brought in a couple guys into camp that are 7-footers. size aint everything. one of 2 things will happen; rahim and bonzi will succeed at filling the positions and live up to their role like webber and christie, or they will fail.
 
I think hes almost right, but if Skinner can play anywhere near the type of play that he was playing when Miller was injured we'd have a solid PF-C Rotation, After joining the Kings Skinner had 9 games of 3 or more blocks, 5 games with 2 blocks, 10 games with double digit rebounding, and scored double figures 7 times and he only play 25 games altogether, and he's only 6'9... I think he's all we need as a big man off the bench if he can play anwhere close to that level, and it couldn't of really have been just a good stretch for him because after he hurt both of his thumbs he really wasn't the same player..
 
He's wrong on the Sonics in losing Evans and Murray, both are still RFAs. Not signed anywhere, but last reported by Sund, are expected to return to Seattle this week.

So basically they only lost James/Daniels/McMillan, but two were big blows in Daniels as he was was a huge part of their depth and success, and Nate knew the team/org and guys so well. If they start Vlad over Evans, that's bad news and quite strange.

The west will be tougher and better as a whole. T'Wolves won't have a year like last year, which was in it's own world compared to their others. Plus the Nuggets, and the Warriors being scrappy, but in the bottom seed (PO) picture.
 
tyrant said:
http://www.insidehoops.com/western-conference-092605.shtml

Nice little read i found on spursreport. A few things about the teams in the west and why or why they don't stand a chance at making it to the finals. They have other teams' listed. visit the link for more


Sacramento Kings
Why the can: Sacramento, the owners of the proverbial "window of opportunity," still see it a crack open. Geoff Petrie has done a great job of re-establishing the once west powerhouse into a contender again. After losing Vlade Divac, Chris Webber, Doug Christie, Bobby Jackson, Greg Ostertag and Darius Songaila, the Kings made a few tricky moves to stay in the thick of things. They were able to bring in Shareef Abdur-Rahim out of the blue after his deal fell through with the Nets, they were able to move oft-injured Bobby Jackson for oft-cranky Bonzi Wells (cranky and playing is still more productive than happy yet injured as Jackson always was), and they did well to get backup point guard Jason Hart from Charlotte. The starting five of Brad Miller, Abdur-Rahim, Peja Stojakovic, Wells and Mike Bibby is formidable, and with players like Corliss Williamson, Kenny Thomas, and Hart coming off the bench, the Kings may be one or two players away from very serious title contention.

Why they can't: They're too small. Even when Sacramento was at the top of their game, people pointed to the fact that their big men didn't play physically outside, instead opting for a precision offense using jump shots and passing. Now, the Kings not only don't have inside presence, they lost the size too. Outside of Brad Miller, nobody on the Kings regular rotation is over 6-10, and the one that is 6-10, Peja Stojakovic, is a very outside oriented perimeter shooter. They don't have the size and physicality to match San Antonio's bulk, and this will ultimately cost them in the playoffs again, when those difficult clutch shots won't fall from 20 feet away.
Click to expand...

Bingo. While not mentioning the defense angle as well was an oversight, its not like what we lack and need is a big secret out there. But how to get it?
 
tyrant said:
i would agree that we don't play big in the paint, but we never have (even with the healthy c-webb and vlade). we were always a perimeter team. it got us to game 7 of the WCF. the article reads that brad miller is our only 7-footer, but we have recently brought in a couple guys into camp that are 7-footers. size aint everything. one of 2 things will happen; rahim and bonzi will succeed at filling the positions and live up to their role like webber and christie, or they will fail.
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i have to disagree with this statement. vlade and webb, in their primes, were great in the paint. vlade was never a power player, but he had the finesse to get into the paint and put the ball in with a series of finger rolls and half hooks. and that finesse was also utilized defensively, albeit in a "flopping" capacity. still...it worked. as for webb, he didn't move his game outside until he got injured. he was never of tim duncan caliber in the paint, but he's damn strong, and could hold is own offensively and defensively in the paint when he had 2 good legs. you are right that the kings of the past 7 years have largely played outside of the paint, but i think its a bit unfair to say we never had a presence in the paint. shareef will hopefully add a bit of that presence back into the kings offensive scheme, but he--and no other kings big, for that matter--will be a force in the paint defensively, and that is something we sorely need.
 
Kings113 said:
Who knows, Sampson and Skinner could be that for us. :)
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Its that minute thing again.

I have little doubt that if we started Brian Skinner and Jamaal Sampson and played them 35min each that our interior defense would be MUCH better (don't want to talk about everything else ;) ). But here's our problem.

In our prime, we ran Chris, Vlade, and Pollard. Pollard was good defender in there. Disruptive with a bit of thug. Neither Vlade or Webb were ever going to be All-Defense (although I do recall Webb getting the occassional spare vote for some reason), but 1) Webb had GREAT hands and was both a significant shotblocker for a PF and prone to picking up a lot of steals for a big man. Not to mention the annual Top 10 rebounding. Not a defensive stud, but a factor that other teams had to contend with; and 2) Vlade was much more disuptive than his lack of athleticism would indiate. He was 7'1", and pretty long, he flopped, he could still block the occassional shot (after being a pretty big shotblocker when young), he'd swipe the ball etc..

Bottom line, the guys getting all of our frontcourt minutes were factors on defense. Only Pollard was a stud, but the other guys presented annoying problems, good length, decent shotblocking etc.. Now today Skinner and Sampson could both give us defense if they were on the floor, but the difference between them and the former generation is that they do not look to actually BE on the floor. Big man #1 = Brad (35+min), #2 = SAR (35+min), and in all liklihood #3 = KT (hey, he can score a little). So sure, Brian can help a little when he's on the floor, but that may only be 10-15 minutes a night total. And Sampson might as well bring a newspaper to read during games.

Meanwhile Brad is less disruptive/long than Vlade, SAR is less of everything than Webb was, and Thomas is MUCH smaller than Scot and nowhere near the defender, banger, shotblocker etc. And that's where our minutes go. Which is again why I believe that only a swap out of a significant piece can get us back to where we once were defensively. nto enough to just add defensive benchers who won't ever play. Need to get somebody who plays major minutes, and can't do that without moving one of the non-defensive guys currently eating those minutes out of the lineup.
 
Yeah I know most of that, it was mostly an exaggeration (minutes).

Brad's not a bad shotblocker or rebounder (I'm intrigued to see how he is from the summer also), and SAR should go back to how he was in Atlanta/last two Vanc. seasons, maybe more (not back to SF of course, but I don't know how much he played SF there anyways, I'm guessing for 2-3 seasons).

Not saying either are or will be defensive studs, but it's something, and Skinner/Sampson there is good.
 
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The main things for winning a championship or being contenders. Altough obvious and repetitve, they are still true:
1. Rebounding(I'm not gonna count the kings out on this one, but judging by size, it looks like it will be tough to be elite in rebounding).
2. Defense(we have not showed this in the past, and it doesn't seem like we'll be too great in this category, but u never know).
3. Chemistry(all depends on how rahim and wells fit in. They are the key components).
4. Offense(shouldn't have any problems scoring, but its how we get our points that will determine a lot. Can we score inside? Can we get key offensive rebounds? Can we post up? Our shooting shouldn't be a problem).
 
Man, if we don't have that many 7 footers dosent mean we dont have good d. We have skinner, sampson and maybe Anwar so we can still have good d with about two or three 7 footers.
 
We also have Brad. Who is the only 7 foot player. Sampson is 6'11", Skinner 6'9", and if one makes it, Jones/Anwar are 7 feet.
 
Yeah, really, I didn't even think about that (Webber).

I guess Ostertag saved that talk from last summer/october. :rolleyes:
 
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I agree about being undersized off the bench, Kenny 6'7", Corliss 6'6", Brian 6'9", but our starting lineup isn't undersized. They may play that way, but didn't Brad say he was going to be training hard this offseason to be able to take the pounding? If there is an open lane to the hoop this season expect some MAJOR shakeups. The Maloofs WON'T stand for it.
 
Kings113 said:
Yeah, really, I didn't even think about that (Webber).

I guess Ostertag saved that talk from last summer/october. :rolleyes:
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No, it was oft talked about last summer too, but yes, Tag was the great hope to plug what the others could not. Also at that time we had hope that Webb could return to a semblance of what he had been.

Here is the real scorecard -- from the last time we were good enough defensively:

7'1" C --> 7'0" C/PF
6'9" PF/C --> 6'9" PF/SF
6'11" C/PF --> 6'7" PF/SF

Those position designations are critical, because not only are the new guys smaller as a group, they also PLAY smaller (as noted by SacTownKid). The implications are obvious. And its not Adelman's fault. And its not even really the players' faults -- they are what they are. The fault would be in the people in control of constructing the team. But if the axe falls, it will probably be on Rick's neck.

P.S. -- and in the year when we were the favorites we went 7'1" C (Vlade), 6'9" PF/C (Webb), 6'11" C/PF (Pollard), 6'11" PF/C (Keon) across the frontline, with two 6'10" SFs to boot. Size DOES matter. No coincidence that was our peak defensively, and as a contender. We were jsut about the biggest team in the league.
 
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SacTownKid said:
I agree about being undersized off the bench, Kenny 6'7", Corliss 6'6", Brian 6'9", but our starting lineup isn't undersized. They may play that way, but didn't Brad say he was going to be training hard this offseason to be able to take the pounding? If there is an open lane to the hoop this season expect some MAJOR shakeups. The Maloofs WON'T stand for it.
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Yeah as I kinda mentioned, Brad said that a couple times in June/early July. I agree with you on the last two sentences also.

I know Brick (didn't really about the size talk last summer though), but I think we'll be better off, and better in general than last season in that area by the time it's into November.
 
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SacTownKid said:
Oh no!!! We went from 6'10" to 6'9"!!! WE"RE SCREWED!!!


gimme a break.
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Yeah, GEEZ!! We've got 3 guys in our starting freaking line-up that are 6-9 or taller and are perennial All-Stars, or have they forgotten about Miller, Peja and Rahim?? Oh, and that's not to even mention our starting point guard that is in the top 3 PG's in the NBA. The media is so quick to just give a quick 'look over' at our team, and its about to bite all of dem' bums in the ***!!
 
Peja has a size advantage generally, but not (I'd say mostly) in where they're mainly writing about - the paint/down low (not like he's defending down there much anyways, except for getting boards). Rebounding though, should and will be better for him, if not, I'll be surprised and pretty disappointed.
 
Another thing is that a lot of the players we aquired have length on their side. Shareef is very long. Bonzi is pretty long himself. Brian's got longish arms, Garcia is long, Martin is fairly long. This is just as important as height, Ben Wallace is 6'9" but he can practically touch his toes with out bending over which helps nullify the difference. I our bench is too small, I am sure that adjustments will be made.

And about Reefs defense. He is a much better defender at PF. In Portland he played out of position at SF and was too slow to defend at that spot. When he came into the league he played SF, but he was at least 25 to 30 pounds lighter then. In Atlanta he played PF and coincidently those were his most productive years. He should be alright, but our team defense needs to...well...exist this year.
 
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Apart from offensive post play, Webb and Vlade really filled up space on the court defensively. They altered shots with their size, (not necessarily blocks). I'm not sure Brad and SAR will be able to do that. But I do think we have a very solid defensive and offensively capable bench, which may fill up some holes if Adelman can find them mins.
 
i really hope brad miller got tougher over the offseason. it's hard to imagine him trying to block a shot without looking like he's gonna tip over and hit the floor. he gets knocked down more than pam anderson
 
tyrant said:
i would agree that we don't play big in the paint, but we never have (even with the healthy c-webb and vlade). we were always a perimeter team. it got us to game 7 of the WCF. the article reads that brad miller is our only 7-footer, but we have recently brought in a couple guys into camp that are 7-footers. size aint everything. one of 2 things will happen; rahim and bonzi will succeed at filling the positions and live up to their role like webber and christie, or they will fail.
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He was talking 6-10+ guys in rotation. Those 7 footers don't really figure there at the moment.
 
Size is a little overrated. Pistons' have been to the finals the last 2 years with a Center that stands about 6'8" but he plays his *** off every night. If these guys can come in and scrap for boards and play tough(I know, fat chance) than it's not going to really matter.



Why don't we just quit the talking and get the season started already???
 
Size matters and it doesn't matter, depending on how you look at it and who you're comparing our teams size with.(detroits not small, but their not that big either. They just play hard. The spurs on the other hand, especially when they had the twin towers, were very long and tall and mobile. They still have size, but not like before.)

If our players did what they said they would do in the offseason especially brad and peja, we should be alright, not great, but alright in defense and rebounding.
 
Bricklayer said:
And that's where our minutes go. Which is again why I believe that only a swap out of a significant piece can get us back to where we once were defensively. not enough to just add defensive benchers who won't ever play. Need to get somebody who plays major minutes, and can't do that without moving one of the non-defensive guys currently eating those minutes out of the lineup.
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Basically agree with this, Brick... So, in a nutshell, you're saying we're once piece away from being a serious contender?
 
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