sactowndog
All-Star
So the Kings are 3 games from 9 and 3 games from the 6th ping pong spot. What direction do you hope they go?
Kings at 9
- Thread starter sactowndog
- Start date
6-7.
Groovygreg
Starter
This squad is going nowhere fast. Might as well tank.
Me personally, I think they should have been playing the younger guys such as Woodard even if it’s just for a small role. I would fold this year. Dump the coach. Get the right guy in, take your nice pick, continue building. But I don’t have a say in this.
Vivek doesn’t want that path and that’s an owner issue.
Vivek doesn’t want that path and that’s an owner issue.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Rule 1, don't get your hopes up when dealing with mediocrity you'll always find yourself in the middle.
The Effort Police
Starter
You can say that, but a 10th slot lottery team trying for an outside shot at 7th lottery odds is about as appealing as an 11th seed trying and failing to make a lower playoff berth.
They blew it. Either way by now is a completely rudderless treadmill of mediocrity with no way out except to hope we move up again and McNair unlike Vlade hasn't been scientifically, factually, and intrinsically proven to blow it by default.
I think the issue is that shooting for an 8 seed, usually something that requires being a winning team, is much different than shooting for an artificial play-in playoff spot with a sub .500 record which carries no legitimate momentum into a future season.
I'm all for letting the chips fall where they may - I don't think we are a bottom 4/5 team in the league right now even though we clearly have been over the course of the drought (biggest argument for any lottery changes to be more along the lines of weighting the lottery odds to favor 3 or 4 years of performance to just single seasons). But we should be playing the younger talent we have just to see if they have any future in the league or on this team.
I'm all for letting the chips fall where they may - I don't think we are a bottom 4/5 team in the league right now even though we clearly have been over the course of the drought (biggest argument for any lottery changes to be more along the lines of weighting the lottery odds to favor 3 or 4 years of performance to just single seasons). But we should be playing the younger talent we have just to see if they have any future in the league or on this team.
I would like to see the team play in the playoffs. We will never have a perfect roster or coach and at some point you need to get to the playoffs with what you have. I don't think it's essential for this team to get a high lottery pick. Our current opponents, Utah, got Mitchell with a mid lottery pick, Gobert with a late first, and Joe Ingles was undrafted. To the extent I can tell, there are few sure things available in the draft beyond a couple of guys we won't get regardless of how bad we do.
Having said that, if there is one thing we have learnt this season it is that the team is still not that good. I wouldn't want a magic turn around and play in to compromise offseason change then have another 5 win, 10 loss 'not enough player effort' season again next year.
Having said that, if there is one thing we have learnt this season it is that the team is still not that good. I wouldn't want a magic turn around and play in to compromise offseason change then have another 5 win, 10 loss 'not enough player effort' season again next year.
Chupacabra
Starter
#1, baby! WOOOooo000!
sactowndog
All-Star
I guess what I don’t get is if McNair wanted to make the play-offs and not concerned about getting younger why do you let Bogi go?
After getting Bogi back from injury the Hawks are 15-5 despite having a number of key players out. With Bogi in the starting line-up, Hawks are 7-3 with Bogi averaging 19.3 points with a 5.7 plus minus. Hawks have moved into the 4th playoff spot.
Hardly seems to be addition by subtraction...
After getting Bogi back from injury the Hawks are 15-5 despite having a number of key players out. With Bogi in the starting line-up, Hawks are 7-3 with Bogi averaging 19.3 points with a 5.7 plus minus. Hawks have moved into the 4th playoff spot.
Hardly seems to be addition by subtraction...
steelevt
All-Star
Maybe it also has something to do with McMillan becoming their head coach?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I guess that shows what a difference a good coach can make. The Kings might have had a chance to make a similar boost transition mid season coaching change but Monte might have missed his window and the more time that goes on the prospects get darker and slimmer. If it's a money thing then Vivek may have gambled wrong. Instead of just clearing out his head coach he might be looking at having clear out the entire bench to clean this foul odor away.
sactowndog
All-Star
Sure it does, but part of what McMillan did is put Bogi in the starting line-up. The point is the same, if your goal is to win now you don’t let a player like him go for nothing. It’s one way to stay out of the playoffs.
sactowndog
All-Star
Wright isn’t close to being the same player as Bogi.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Didn't the Hawks try to trade Bogi at the deadline?
gunks
Hall of Famer
Dude, Vlade put him in a crap situation. Having both Buddy and Bogi on the team wasn’t working, because both guys ended up playing dumb, forced basketball in their constant battle for minutes/who is starting.
Nobody out there was going to trade for Buddy with his bloated contract and suspect impact. So what did you want McNair to do? Give Bogi a fat raise and tie up even MORE cap in that SG bottleneck that clearly wasn’t working?
It sucks we didn’t get anything for Bogi after that Bucks trade fell through, but that’s better than having two overpaid SGs playing like garbage for us because they have to keep looking over their shoulder at the other guy.
Your McNair hate is weird man....Give it another season and if we’re still flailing you can probably get more people on that bandwagon. Right now all our woes are still tied to Vivek and Vlade’s blunders.
sactowndog
All-Star
At $17M Bogi isnt over paid. Yes Buddy is problematic but letting Bogi go and especially for nothing is on McNair. Especially if you are going to play a 3 guard line-up. I don’t hate McNair. I do think he has already showing poor and inconsistent decision making. We shall see how he drafts.....
Bogi put up 32 on Charlotte today hardly playing like garbage.
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King Baller
All-Star
IMO this pandemic year put Bogi in forced rest over the summer. He is fresher than we have ever seen him since he always plays for his National Team. We Kings Fans have seen Bogi play a lot. Do you honestly think he would be a difference maker on the Kings?
gunks
Hall of Famer
Yeah, my bad. “Hate” is a strong word, and an easy one to throw around on a message board. I’ve just noticed you’re about the only one criticizing him at this point.
I can’t argue that the trade deadline moves were underwhelming at best, but I really don’t think that McNair has a lot to work with.
I don’t believe it’s very realistic to expect a massive overhaul in the time McNair has been here, so I’m just happy he hasn’t made a huge **** up move out the gate like Vlade did with the Philly trade.
If he’s still mucking around with minor moves this summer and beyond, I’ll be happy to criticize him with you!
Finally, a bit of full disclosure: I haaaaaaated Bogi. Dude played some of the lowest IQ, forced, selfish Basketball I’ve ever seen. So I’m definitely biased and happy he’s gone never mind the lack of return.
I don't know that the playoffs were necessarily the goal at the start of the season. Sam Amick said it was not playoffs or bust early on and Jason Jones has frequently suggested that the King's are taking a gap year this season.
I think it's reasonable to question the direction of the team. If you don't want to make the playoffs, why strengthen the roster mid season? Why not ship veterans for kids and picks? But I also think it's fair to wait and see how the front office goes. They just got here. And evaluating and improving a team should not be some binary choice between championship or tanking.
I feel Monte and the current front office are the most qualified we have had since Vivek got here. So I'm happy to see how they go. I don't know that I will be as patient as I would have been a couple of seasons ago.
I think it's reasonable to question the direction of the team. If you don't want to make the playoffs, why strengthen the roster mid season? Why not ship veterans for kids and picks? But I also think it's fair to wait and see how the front office goes. They just got here. And evaluating and improving a team should not be some binary choice between championship or tanking.
I feel Monte and the current front office are the most qualified we have had since Vivek got here. So I'm happy to see how they go. I don't know that I will be as patient as I would have been a couple of seasons ago.
sactowndog
All-Star
If the goal is to make the play-offs this year. Absolutely. Bogi is a better 2 guard than either Buddy or Delon. Not to mention Bogi would have excelled playing off the ball with Hali. He’s a very good catch and shoot player but mediocre to poor shooting off the dribble.
If you are trying to build for a championship and get a better pick. No. But if I’m doing the latter I don’t make the moves Monte made at the trade deadline. It’s why I said I don’t get the moves when put together.
and I agree about getting a fresh Bogi,
I think its fair to say the value wasn't there for any of the 3 guys that could return anything and given the results so far it's worth questioning how much the deals "strengthened" the team. We moved on from CoJo which forced Walton to try something different but that's about it, really. Given Monte came in late during what was already an abbreviated offseason I'm pretty grateful he hasn't done anything dramatic, but we have to move on from at least one if not two of the three Bs this offseason.
sactowndog
All-Star
I’m specifically criticizing/questioning two things:
1) the consistency of his moves. If you are shooting for the playoffs keep Bogi. If not, don’t do the trade deadline moves.
2) his judgement with this team to end up without a play-off spot or a good lottery ball percentage. This fanbase has gone to long muddling through with GM’s not having a good handle on their team.
I also think the additions were as much about getting ahead of the offseason, where on if the stated goals was to add depth. I think they achieved that a little.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Fair points.
I’m pro tank myself, and was hoping for a Barnes move as I think that would have gone a long way towards shoring up our lotto odds.
I’m unsure if we can pin the lack of direction on McNair though. We’ve been rudderless through 3 GMs now, with the one constant being Vivek.
And the only thing consistent with Vivek has been his meddling. He may have been open to tanking when we let Bogi go, and then changed his mind after we had the hot streak before the deadline... it wouldn’t be the first time the short sighted wishy-washiness of Vivek screwed us over.
sactowndog
All-Star
well even in regards to Vivek:
1) as head of basketball operations it’s his job to paint an accurate picture to Vivek even if it means threatening to walk out the door. So in that regard it is still his fault.
2) if he does have control like he said then it’s still his fault.
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