Kings and the draft (split from Vasquez thread)

ParniValjak

All-Star
Hey, I'm certainly open minded when it comes to Smart. But so far, other than some very good games here and there, he hasn't dazzled me. He's a good passer, but it doesn't show up every game. He's also not as good an athlete as I thought he would be. I guess I was expecting a freak athlete. Don't get me wrong, he's certainly athletic, and he's fun to watch at times. He was a terrific defender last year. I think he'd make a great tight end on the Oklahoma St. football team. He's built like Mitch Richmond.

I hope he proves me wrong. This is going to be a tough draft class to break in to, and from a financial point of view, he probably should have come out in this past draft. Probably would have gone top five. Next year, who knows! Maybe top ten, maybe lower if he isn't more consistent. If you end up being right, I'll be the first to admit it.... I hope he can convince me to stop cringing everytime he shoots a three.

It's fair to say that it is way too early to call at this stage. So many things can chance in the next 10 or so months. What I do know is that the ideal type of player for this team would be a SF who can create for himself and others. Andrew Wiggins would be ideal but we are unlikely to get him unless we get really lucky. But what I am saying is that this team does not need another guard. If Cousins and McLemore are our guys, the logical place to get another star is a SF. I would love a Paul George on this team. Despite not being a great shooter, he is exactly the type of player we need at SF if McLemore is our guy at SG.

Two (20ppg) scorers in the backcourt has never worked too well and similarly that has never worked with a PF and C. There needs to be some balance and amongst the scoring positions in the line up!
 
I don't see the Kings in the running for Wiggins but obviously that would be ideal. But if the Kings do have another high lottery pick (that isn't #1) I'd think Willie Cauley-Stein makes much more sense than Smart.
 
I don't see the Kings in the running for Wiggins but obviously that would be ideal. But if the Kings do have another high lottery pick (that isn't #1) I'd think Willie Cauley-Stein makes much more sense than Smart.

Cauley-Stein showed signs last season of developing into exactly the player we need. I'm hopeful that he'll have an injury free season this time around, and we can get a good look at what he can do. He's obviously someone that we should be able to get if were not in the top 5 or 6. My top three are Wiggins, Randle, and Parker as it stands now. I'm interested in seeing James Young, whose going to Kentucky this year. He's also a SF that hasn't gotten near the press of some of the others, but he's ranked in the top ten highschool players in the country.

Now of course if the gods smile on us, and we land Wiggins, then its the beginning of a new dawn. I have to tell you though, I'm a huge, huge Julius Randle fan.
 
I don't see the Kings in the running for Wiggins but obviously that would be ideal. But if the Kings do have another high lottery pick (that isn't #1) I'd think Willie Cauley-Stein makes much more sense than Smart.

If kings don't get a top 5 pick, I think Glenn Robinson III would be a good fit. He's been getting a lot of Iggy comparisons.

Luckily there are plenty of good fowards in this draft, which the Kings need the most.
 
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SI did a writeup on the top ten players in next year's draft... definitely looks like a pretty strong lottery. Obviously there's star power up top but looks like a good lottery towards the backend as well... which should be good for us.
 
How many seasons have we been hearing the same broken record, "tank the season and win the draft for next year.?" Seriously at what point do we STOP looking to the draft for solutions, and realize that we have to KEEP talent and TRADE for talent. Yes we got some great payers through the draft and yet the TEAM still sucked. I understand that next year's draft is particularly loaded, but at some point we have to stop looking at the draft, and honestly we probably have to be cautious in Free Agency as well. We need specific talents, NBA experience and proven players.
 
How many seasons have we been hearing the same broken record, "tank the season and win the draft for next year.?" Seriously at what point do we STOP looking to the draft for solutions, and realize that we have to KEEP talent and TRADE for talent. Yes we got some great payers through the draft and yet the TEAM still sucked. I understand that next year's draft is particularly loaded, but at some point we have to stop looking at the draft, and honestly we probably have to be cautious in Free Agency as well. We need specific talents, NBA experience and proven players.

Amen.
 
How many seasons have we been hearing the same broken record, "tank the season and win the draft for next year.?" Seriously at what point do we STOP looking to the draft for solutions, and realize that we have to KEEP talent and TRADE for talent. Yes we got some great payers through the draft and yet the TEAM still sucked. I understand that next year's draft is particularly loaded, but at some point we have to stop looking at the draft, and honestly we probably have to be cautious in Free Agency as well. We need specific talents, NBA experience and proven players.

When we decided to give up on Tyreke, we decided to rewind the clock back and go through another mini rebuild. I think the intention is, as Carmichael Dave suggested to let Tyreke walks, and pick inside top 10 this year and next year to try and get two good or great young players to surround Cousins with.

Keep Tyreke and make a could of good trades and we are back in the play offs. I think this ownership group wants to rebuild through the draft but still want to keep Cousins, hence the reason why they have been showering him with attention. They don't want to lose him but need to sell him on the idea that there will be another losing year next year for the good of the long term future. I don't think these guys are planning for a full on rebuild but another bad year and then a big push to the play offs.
 
When we decided to give up on Tyreke, we decided to rewind the clock back and go through another mini rebuild. I think the intention is, as Carmichael Dave suggested to let Tyreke walks, and pick inside top 10 this year and next year to try and get two good or great young players to surround Cousins with.

Keep Tyreke and make a could of good trades and we are back in the play offs. I think this ownership group wants to rebuild through the draft but still want to keep Cousins, hence the reason why they have been showering him with attention. They don't want to lose him but need to sell him on the idea that there will be another losing year next year for the good of the long term future. I don't think these guys are planning for a full on rebuild but another bad year and then a big push to the play offs.
My comments were generally directed at some posters on the board, not management. I have no idea if the management is intentionally positioning the team for the loto or or not. I would HOPE they are not. Personally I think they would have been MUCH better off either Keeping Tyreke or if they really thought he was not the right guy or not worth the 11 mill, then sign him and trade him for VALUE, but I would not call the S&T with NO an effort to tank, just not the move I would make.

There is a truth in business and politics that success breeds success, and failure breeds failure. While the Lotto and Draft are an attempt to change this truth in reality it rarely does. Sure there are examples of teams that got a lot better due to the draft (in recent memory OKC and Clips come to mind) but the really successful teams get and stay successful with out going to the lotto year after year. The Celtics, Lakers, Spurs Heat have not been in the lotto for years, and IF the aged out in flux Celts or broke down Lakers DO go this year does anyone think they will be back the next year? OKC may have gotten their center pieces in the lotto but it was SMART moves and WINING philosophy that has not just kept them out of it, but has made them contenders the past few seasons.

Honestly I think the best hope for the Kings at this point is for DMC to save the team from it's self. If they are telling you to be patient and accept another bad year IGNORE them. Do what a great player does and refuse to loose, show the league that you are not a top 5 big man in the league you are THE big man in the league. Make guys like John Wall and Ibaka WANT to play with you. In short don't wait for it seize it! One player may not be able to lead a bad team to the finals, but he could get us in the play offs, make the All Stars and get the league talking. There are quality players out there who are fine with riding coattails into the NBA finals, DMC just has to show everyone he IS THE COAT. Then let the front office deal with that.
 
... There is a truth in business and politics that success breeds success, and failure breeds failure. While the Lotto and Draft are an attempt to change this truth in reality it rarely does. Sure there are examples of teams that got a lot better due to the draft (in recent memory OKC and Clips come to mind)...
I gotta beg to differ, Celt: the Clippers did not build a playoff team through the draft. In fact, they built a 32-win team through the draft. They became a playoff team over the course of one offseason, with a blockbuster trade (Paul), and key free agent signings (Butler, Billups). Aside from that correction, I tend to agree with your post.
 
I gotta beg to differ, Celt: the Clippers did not build a playoff team through the draft. In fact, they built a 32-win team through the draft. They became a playoff team over the course of one offseason, with a blockbuster trade (Paul), and key free agent signings (Butler, Billups). Aside from that correction, I tend to agree with your post.
No doubt the Paul, Butler, Bilups acquisitions moved the Clips from a talented laden roster into a actual contender of sorts, but they got there AFTER picking up Thorton, Jordan, Gordon and Griffin in 4 successive drafts. But hey lets not quibble, Sterling had more trips to the well than anyone ever deserved and finely the laws of probability caught up with him and stuck with a glut of talent from the draft he was almost forced to build a good team by default.
 
Generally, I hate the tank and draft philosophy. Especially with our earlier roster, which I didn't feel was that far from playoffs with some minor tweaks. As long as we have Cousins, we still won't be that far, although I feel we took a step backward in the long term, if not the short term.
That said, this is probably the lottery in which you want a winning ticket. You can't win if you don't have a ticket, right? A top 5 pick would be enough to fill a need via pick or trade.
 
Generally, I hate the tank and draft philosophy. Especially with our earlier roster, which I didn't feel was that far from playoffs with some minor tweaks. As long as we have Cousins, we still won't be that far, although I feel we took a step backward in the long term, if not the short term.
That said, this is probably the lottery in which you want a winning ticket. You can't win if you don't have a ticket, right? A top 5 pick would be enough to fill a need via pick or trade.
Me, too. I hate the tank and draft philosophy, and, even talking about it. But, of course, that attitude doesn't fly very well on this site. The higher the draft number the better the basketball. Higher, 14th pick better than 3rd pick. Third is more fun on draft day but 14 is better basketball.
 
The other concern is the fact that if we do well enough, Cleveland gets our pick. Which, yes, if we're projecting that well we won't NEED the pick, but I'd rather have my pick this year.
 
All the talk of the 2014 draft has reached a level of lunacy in my opinion. It's not even that good of a draft. The top 5 look to be very good, but we don't know yet as most of them haven't even played a college game. Plenty of guys disappoint in their rookie season -- Harrison Barnes and Shabazz Muhammad were the last two SF prospects projected as number 1 picks. Both looked "can't miss" out of high school and look where they ended up. There's a chance all of these guys hit at once and then the draft looks pretty stacked at the top, but even then, after the top 5 it's really not any better than a normal draft. How likely are we really to get a top 5 pick? You have to be seriously horrible to finish with one of the worst 3 records in the league and even that doesn't guarantee you a top 5 pick. We'd be lucky to draft somebody as good as Tyreke Evans in this upcoming draft. Like probably 1 in 20 lucky -- the lottery has to help us and then we have to correctly identify somebody who's going to develop into an All-Star talent and then we have to help them live up to that potential. I love college basketball and young players with potential are exciting to watch and root for but the thing is, we got damn lucky to land Tyreke Evans and to say that we would choose a chance at a lottery pick over keeping him at a market-rate deal (John Wall is supposedly negotiating a 5 year, 80 million dollar contract) is so wrong-headed I almost don't even want to bother discussing it.

Andrew Wiggins is probably going to be really good, probably. But what if he isn't? What if Jabari Parker wants to stay at Duke another year and Randle gets injured or has a poor season? Where are we at then? Do we tank the next season too? It's a never ending whirlpool and we've been stuck in it for years and what do we have to show for it? Spencer Hawes, Tyreke Evans, and Thomas Robinson are gone. Jimmer we can't give away. Thompson hasn't developed into anything but a borderline starter. We got 1 year of Patrick Patterson out of the Robinson deal and 1 year of Greivis Vasquez out of the Tyreke Evans deal. We could have bought these guys as free agents without having to suffer through horrible seasons first. Anybody who thinks that building through the draft is a rational business model at this point is either crazy or not paying attention if you ask me. Yes you can get lucky, but what successful business puts their future on the line for a lottery ticket? Not to mention, we've been so bad for so long that the fans completely gave up on the team and we still haven't had even one top 3 pick for that entire span. Not one. This is not going to change people. Sure, it might change, but I wouldn't bet on it. Let Cleveland have the 13th pick in the draft. Who cares? We just drafted a guy who most people thought was one of the three best players in the draft and we don't even know if he's a starter. Next year is really that much better that the 13th pick is going to be a difference between us becoming competitive or not? Really? Kendall Marshall, Markieff Morris, Ed Davis, Tyler Hansbrough, Brandon Rush, Julian Wright, Thabo Sefalosha, Sean May, Sebastian Telfair, Marcus Banks, Marcus Haislip? This is the deepest draft in over a decade? Okay.
 
All the talk of the 2014 draft has reached a level of lunacy in my opinion. It's not even that good of a draft. The top 5 look to be very good, but we don't know yet as most of them haven't even played a college game. Plenty of guys disappoint in their rookie season -- Harrison Barnes and Shabazz Muhammad were the last two SF prospects projected as number 1 picks. Both looked "can't miss" out of high school and look where they ended up. There's a chance all of these guys hit at once and then the draft looks pretty stacked at the top, but even then, after the top 5 it's really not any better than a normal draft. How likely are we really to get a top 5 pick? You have to be seriously horrible to finish with one of the worst 3 records in the league and even that doesn't guarantee you a top 5 pick. We'd be lucky to draft somebody as good as Tyreke Evans in this upcoming draft. Like probably 1 in 20 lucky -- the lottery has to help us and then we have to correctly identify somebody who's going to develop into an All-Star talent and then we have to help them live up to that potential. I love college basketball and young players with potential are exciting to watch and root for but the thing is, we got damn lucky to land Tyreke Evans and to say that we would choose a chance at a lottery pick over keeping him at a market-rate deal (John Wall is supposedly negotiating a 5 year, 80 million dollar contract) is so wrong-headed I almost don't even want to bother discussing it.

Andrew Wiggins is probably going to be really good, probably. But what if he isn't? What if Jabari Parker wants to stay at Duke another year and Randle gets injured or has a poor season? Where are we at then? Do we tank the next season too? It's a never ending whirlpool and we've been stuck in it for years and what do we have to show for it? Spencer Hawes, Tyreke Evans, and Thomas Robinson are gone. Jimmer we can't give away. Thompson hasn't developed into anything but a borderline starter. We got 1 year of Patrick Patterson out of the Robinson deal and 1 year of Greivis Vasquez out of the Tyreke Evans deal. We could have bought these guys as free agents without having to suffer through horrible seasons first. Anybody who thinks that building through the draft is a rational business model at this point is either crazy or not paying attention if you ask me. Yes you can get lucky, but what successful business puts their future on the line for a lottery ticket? Not to mention, we've been so bad for so long that the fans completely gave up on the team and we still haven't had even one top 3 pick for that entire span. Not one. This is not going to change people. Sure, it might change, but I wouldn't bet on it. Let Cleveland have the 13th pick in the draft. Who cares? We just drafted a guy who most people thought was one of the three best players in the draft and we don't even know if he's a starter. Next year is really that much better that the 13th pick is going to be a difference between us becoming competitive or not? Really? Kendall Marshall, Markieff Morris, Ed Davis, Tyler Hansbrough, Brandon Rush, Julian Wright, Thabo Sefalosha, Sean May, Sebastian Telfair, Marcus Banks, Marcus Haislip? This is the deepest draft in over a decade? Okay.

Wow, is it really that bad:)

The Kings are here to stay in Sacto. A new arena is coming. The best young up and coming center is right here on the Kings. There are new owners who appear flush with cash, a new forward thinking front office and a new defensive minded coach. Hey the Maloofs are gone!

I choose to be positive:)
KB
 
hrdboild I totally agree with your line of thinking, tanking or trying to position yourself for a favorable draft pick is never a great idea, we suffered thru some pretty bad years to be able to land demarcus and reke, it took 6 drafts for us to get two standout picks, argueablely the best players/prospects for the kings since artest left, and to see this regime basically give away reke who i think they did not follow intently over the past few years hurt alot of long time fans who suffered thru this recent 7 year drought.

The most frustrating part in all of this is that Tyreke never really got the chance to thrive in Sac, when he had the ball in his hands the players around him sucked, when we got a few decent shooters smart took the ball out of his hands and yanked him around minutes and position wise. but that is all beating a dead horse, hes gone now.

The new management came into this situation in a rush against time, they may have looked at tyreke and thought he was not championship team material, which might be true, but along that line of thinking I believe what was lost was the fact that this is sacramento, where no middle to upper tier young free agents sign and talent is only aquired through basically long shot odds either via miricle trade(which is getting harder to pull off) or the luck of a ping pong ball. misjudgement of the market may have been the critical error that will set us back a few years until we find that 2nd stud to put next to Cuz.

I like what the pelicans did, they could have stayed put and positioned for the draft again next year but decided to be aggressive and try to win this year, if it works even to a first round elimination they will still create a buzz around the team and grab the attention of the fans, if not jrue and tyreke are still reasonable trade chips espcially with John Wall getting a max deal.
 
Wow, is it really that bad:)

The Kings are here to stay in Sacto. A new arena is coming. The best young up and coming center is right here on the Kings. There are new owners who appear flush with cash, a new forward thinking front office and a new defensive minded coach. Hey the Maloofs are gone!

I choose to be positive:)
KB

Naw, it's still just basketball. I'm sure my post came off a good deal more confrontational than I intended it. It's been building up though and I just wanted to say it, at least once. Every time I read somebody implying that the draft is going to save us I just want to ask them where they've been the past 7 years when it repeatedly did nothing of the kind and why they continue to believe in the false hope of a system which has done Sacramento no favors for it's entire 28 year existence.
 
All the talk of the 2014 draft has reached a level of lunacy in my opinion. It's not even that good of a draft. The top 5 look to be very good, but we don't know yet as most of them haven't even played a college game. Plenty of guys disappoint in their rookie season -- Harrison Barnes and Shabazz Muhammad were the last two SF prospects projected as number 1 picks. Both looked "can't miss" out of high school and look where they ended up. There's a chance all of these guys hit at once and then the draft looks pretty stacked at the top, but even then, after the top 5 it's really not any better than a normal draft. How likely are we really to get a top 5 pick? You have to be seriously horrible to finish with one of the worst 3 records in the league and even that doesn't guarantee you a top 5 pick. We'd be lucky to draft somebody as good as Tyreke Evans in this upcoming draft. Like probably 1 in 20 lucky -- the lottery has to help us and then we have to correctly identify somebody who's going to develop into an All-Star talent and then we have to help them live up to that potential. I love college basketball and young players with potential are exciting to watch and root for but the thing is, we got damn lucky to land Tyreke Evans and to say that we would choose a chance at a lottery pick over keeping him at a market-rate deal (John Wall is supposedly negotiating a 5 year, 80 million dollar contract) is so wrong-headed I almost don't even want to bother discussing it.

Andrew Wiggins is probably going to be really good, probably. But what if he isn't? What if Jabari Parker wants to stay at Duke another year and Randle gets injured or has a poor season? Where are we at then? Do we tank the next season too? It's a never ending whirlpool and we've been stuck in it for years and what do we have to show for it? Spencer Hawes, Tyreke Evans, and Thomas Robinson are gone. Jimmer we can't give away. Thompson hasn't developed into anything but a borderline starter. We got 1 year of Patrick Patterson out of the Robinson deal and 1 year of Greivis Vasquez out of the Tyreke Evans deal. We could have bought these guys as free agents without having to suffer through horrible seasons first. Anybody who thinks that building through the draft is a rational business model at this point is either crazy or not paying attention if you ask me. Yes you can get lucky, but what successful business puts their future on the line for a lottery ticket? Not to mention, we've been so bad for so long that the fans completely gave up on the team and we still haven't had even one top 3 pick for that entire span. Not one. This is not going to change people. Sure, it might change, but I wouldn't bet on it. Let Cleveland have the 13th pick in the draft. Who cares? We just drafted a guy who most people thought was one of the three best players in the draft and we don't even know if he's a starter. Next year is really that much better that the 13th pick is going to be a difference between us becoming competitive or not? Really? Kendall Marshall, Markieff Morris, Ed Davis, Tyler Hansbrough, Brandon Rush, Julian Wright, Thabo Sefalosha, Sean May, Sebastian Telfair, Marcus Banks, Marcus Haislip? This is the deepest draft in over a decade? Okay.

I'm not a person that believes in tanking, but that has nothing to do with the talent in next years draft. I spend hours and hours watching highschool basketball, followed by hours and hours of college basketball, and to have someone like yourself come along and say that this isn't even a good draft is frustrating to me. I'm certainly not perfect, and neither are the players, but it you had paid attention last year, Muhammad's stock started falling before he even got to college. Ditto Harrison Barnes. I was never high on Muhammad, and I had serious questions about Barnes. But there are some players you watch, and you just say, My God! This coming draft is not only heavy at the top, its deep, with some carry overs from last year.

No, their not all going to be superstars, but there will be a lot of very good players that will have very good careers. There will be potentially 5 to 7 players in this coming draft, that could have been the 1st pick in this last draft. There are good drafts, and their are bad drafts. This coming one is a very good one. You don't have to downgrade the draft, and the players in it, in order to make a point about tanking. I don't understand the sarcasm. I understand your bitterness about Tyreke, but don't you think its time to move on. He was one of my favorite players, but he's gone! Am I supposed to sit around and wring my hands and cry about it into the next millennium. Personally, I don't think it had anything to do with the money. I think they didn't feel that Tyreke fit the type of team they wanted to put together. I have no inside info, but they did go and meet with Cousins at his home, and they've admitted consulting with him on the type of players him might want to play with.

I may or may not agree with their plan, but they did pay a lot of money for the team and they're entitled to build the type of team they want. While the past 5 or 6 years may matter to them as a matter of fact, their not responsible for those years, so our impatience is not there's.
 
You watch "hours and hours" of high school basketball? How? Where is that being broadcast? Are you just wandering down to the local HS's on a Friday night to watch the kids play?
 
I simply assumed he was an intercontinental jet-setter. Actually, I just imagine the Dos Equis guy whenever Baja speaks. :D
 
I'm not a person that believes in tanking, but that has nothing to do with the talent in next years draft. I spend hours and hours watching highschool basketball, followed by hours and hours of college basketball, and to have someone like yourself come along and say that this isn't even a good draft is frustrating to me. I'm certainly not perfect, and neither are the players, but it you had paid attention last year, Muhammad's stock started falling before he even got to college. Ditto Harrison Barnes. I was never high on Muhammad, and I had serious questions about Barnes. But there are some players you watch, and you just say, My God! This coming draft is not only heavy at the top, its deep, with some carry overs from last year.

No, their not all going to be superstars, but there will be a lot of very good players that will have very good careers. There will be potentially 5 to 7 players in this coming draft, that could have been the 1st pick in this last draft. There are good drafts, and their are bad drafts. This coming one is a very good one. You don't have to downgrade the draft, and the players in it, in order to make a point about tanking. I don't understand the sarcasm. I understand your bitterness about Tyreke, but don't you think its time to move on. He was one of my favorite players, but he's gone! Am I supposed to sit around and wring my hands and cry about it into the next millennium. Personally, I don't think it had anything to do with the money. I think they didn't feel that Tyreke fit the type of team they wanted to put together. I have no inside info, but they did go and meet with Cousins at his home, and they've admitted consulting with him on the type of players him might want to play with.

I may or may not agree with their plan, but they did pay a lot of money for the team and they're entitled to build the type of team they want. While the past 5 or 6 years may matter to them as a matter of fact, their not responsible for those years, so our impatience is not there's.

I have moved on, I just brought up Tyreke to prove a point. A player like that is exactly who you are hoping to get with a top 5 pick in the draft. You don't give one of them away so that you can go back to the lottery and hopefully find somebody just as good. That just doesn't make sense to me. We got damn lucky to draft Tyreke and damn lucky to draft Cousins. And we both know it. We were talking about Cousins as the best player in the draft and we got him at 5. We could easily have been the team that punted our picks on Hasheem Thabeet or Johnney Flynn and Wesley Johnson. And all of our drafts before and after that only help to reinforce the point that star players are not easy to get. More likely than not, where we're drafting and who will actually be in the draft next year, we're probably not going to get a player with as much talent as Tyreke Evans. That's the reality. And I'm not donwgrading the draft out of spite either. I quite honestly am not that impressed with this group. I think there are several very talented players, but the historic draft talk? I don't see it. I've never seen it. I'd say there are going to be 3 very very good players when all is said and done and then a bunch of guys with question marks like we have in every draft. So unless you get a top 3 pick it's just like every other draft and when have we ever moved up in the draft lottery? Never. Not even once. Is it optimism to ignore everything that has happened before and hope this is our year or is it lunacy? I just think there are several better paths to success which make a whole lot more sense than doing nothing and hoping fate smiles on you.
 
I have moved on, I just brought up Tyreke to prove a point. A player like that is exactly who you are hoping to get with a top 5 pick in the draft. You don't give one of them away so that you can go back to the lottery and hopefully find somebody just as good. That just doesn't make sense to me. We got damn lucky to draft Tyreke and damn lucky to draft Cousins. And we both know it. We were talking about Cousins as the best player in the draft and we got him at 5. We could easily have been the team that punted our picks on Hasheem Thabeet or Johnney Flynn and Wesley Johnson. And all of our drafts before and after that only help to reinforce the point that star players are not easy to get. More likely than not, where we're drafting and who will actually be in the draft next year, we're probably not going to get a player with as much talent as Tyreke Evans. That's the reality. And I'm not donwgrading the draft out of spite either. I quite honestly am not that impressed with this group. I think there are several very talented players, but the historic draft talk? I don't see it. I've never seen it. I'd say there are going to be 3 very very good players when all is said and done and then a bunch of guys with question marks like we have in every draft. So unless you get a top 3 pick it's just like every other draft and when have we ever moved up in the draft lottery? Never. Not even once. Is it optimism to ignore everything that has happened before and hope this is our year or is it lunacy? I just think there are several better paths to success which make a whole lot more sense than doing nothing and hoping fate smiles on you.
I'm kinda with you on next year's draft... looks to be three really good players up top then some other solid guys in the top ten. Not mind blowing though imo at least. Rock solid I guess is how I would describe it... a very good draft up top.

As far as our luck in drafting Tyreke goes, it's just my opinion (and I was one of the only guys on this site advocating Reke in the weeks leading up to that draft) but I think you're overstating things a bit. Sure, we were lucky to get Reke rather than a Wesley Johnson (or Thomas Robinson). But for every miss up top there's an equal amount of hits. For every Thabeet there's a James Harden. For every T-Rob there's a Damian Lillard. Look at the 2010 draft... we got a good player in Cousins. But in the next five picks there were four really good players in Monroe, Aminu, Hayward, and George. Out of those four guys I think Monroe for Demarcus is even money and George for Demarcus looks like a deal we might jump at. Aminu and Hayward aren't stars but they're good players. My point is there are a bunch of good players found in the top ten of every draft... we weren't all that lucky to get a player of Tyreke's calibur. And resigning him to an $11m/yr contract if we don't feel he's worth that is not turning our nose up at 'good luck'... it's being smart.
 
Naw, it's still just basketball. I'm sure my post came off a good deal more confrontational than I intended it. It's been building up though and I just wanted to say it, at least once. Every time I read somebody implying that the draft is going to save us I just want to ask them where they've been the past 7 years when it repeatedly did nothing of the kind and why they continue to believe in the false hope of a system which has done Sacramento no favors for it's entire 28 year existence.

You know the most frustrating thing has been the lack of luck for the Kings in the draft. How many times has Cleveland had the first pick? How about the Pelicans getting the first pick when there was a defensive stud Big man available??? Can you imagine Davis playing besides Cousins for the next ten years?

As Kings fans our hope was in Tyreke and Cousins coming together and being special. I get that. The Kings did not get the first pick during these last 7 years, but they might have got the best players for two drafts. Now Tyreke is a Pelican.

Sure I don't like it, but I'm a Kings fan, I ride for the brand. I'm going to put my Kings Fan hope in Vivek, Pete 4 moves and Coach Malone. I like the guys they have brought in. I would have liked a defensive center more. I would have liked Calderon and Iguodala much, much more. I'm hoping Pete can find the next Bruce Bowen from the Summer league.

I don't want to see the Kings tank the season. But if its going to be another lottery year I think some luck is due the Kings.

KB
 
You watch "hours and hours" of high school basketball? How? Where is that being broadcast? Are you just wandering down to the local HS's on a Friday night to watch the kids play?

If you check ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU, you'll find that they broadcast a lot of highschool basketball games. And for the most part, they pick games with players that are generally ranked in the top 20. I generally DVR the games and watch them later. If you think thats stupid, then you can join my wife in that regard. I'll tell you up front, watching highschool basketball takes dedication, because a lot of it is downright terrible, and I won't even comment on the ref's.

I'm not sure if your post is made in jest, or if you honestly want to know how I watch these games. I suspect that perhaps you doubt me. If so, I can stop wasting my time and find something better to do. If not, then I hope I've answered you question.

Edit: If I'm a little touchy about this subject, I apologize. Only a few people know the amount of work I put in watching games. Cruzdude being one of them. Without going into detail, its tough at times to post your point of view, and have someone whose probably never watched a college game disagree with you. Don't get me wrong, there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum. And I'm continually surprised by some of the new people, and their knowledge. But its not hard to tell if someone has actually watched a game, or if he or she, is just repeating what they read on one of the mock draft sites.
 
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I have moved on, I just brought up Tyreke to prove a point. A player like that is exactly who you are hoping to get with a top 5 pick in the draft. You don't give one of them away so that you can go back to the lottery and hopefully find somebody just as good. That just doesn't make sense to me. We got damn lucky to draft Tyreke and damn lucky to draft Cousins. And we both know it. We were talking about Cousins as the best player in the draft and we got him at 5. We could easily have been the team that punted our picks on Hasheem Thabeet or Johnney Flynn and Wesley Johnson. And all of our drafts before and after that only help to reinforce the point that star players are not easy to get. More likely than not, where we're drafting and who will actually be in the draft next year, we're probably not going to get a player with as much talent as Tyreke Evans. That's the reality. And I'm not donwgrading the draft out of spite either. I quite honestly am not that impressed with this group. I think there are several very talented players, but the historic draft talk? I don't see it. I've never seen it. I'd say there are going to be 3 very very good players when all is said and done and then a bunch of guys with question marks like we have in every draft. So unless you get a top 3 pick it's just like every other draft and when have we ever moved up in the draft lottery? Never. Not even once. Is it optimism to ignore everything that has happened before and hope this is our year or is it lunacy? I just think there are several better paths to success which make a whole lot more sense than doing nothing and hoping fate smiles on you.

I think we have a fundamental difference in how we look at the draft. And that's fine! You see, I think the draft should be the life blood of a small market team. The Thunder is a perfect example of how a small market team builds through the draft. Look at the Spurs, and just about every core player they have, they acquired through the draft. I believe that you polish off the team, or fill the gaps through freeagency and trades. Of course you have to make good choices and that requires a good front office. Something we haven't had for while. Now maybe I'm misreading you because I haven't had the time to go through every post in this thread, but you seem to be making a connection between Tyreke leaving, and intentional tanking. I don't think that one has anything to do with the other.

Now that's just my opinion, and perhaps some will think that if we don't make the playoffs, it will be because we didn't resign Tyreke. Of course there's no way to prove that one way or the other. For instance, if by some miracle, we do make the playoffs, I'm not about to say its because we were smart enough to let Tyreke go. Neither premise can be proved. At this point, I think its a bit of a reach for anyone to think that a team, that hasn't been able to win 30 games for the last few years, is making intentional moves to tank the season. Hell, all they would have to do, is do nothing, and its almost a guarantee they'll miss the playoffs.

We can discuss the draft another time. But it is going to be a good one. Remember, no one thought we'd get Cousins or Tyreke. We missed out on players (Chandler Parsons) because someone didn't do their homework. Who thought IT would be as good as he turned out to be. There are very good players out there. You just have to put in the work.
 
I think we have a fundamental difference in how we look at the draft. And that's fine! You see, I think the draft should be the life blood of a small market team. The Thunder is a perfect example of how a small market team builds through the draft. Look at the Spurs, and just about every core player they have, they acquired through the draft. I believe that you polish off the team, or fill the gaps through freeagency and trades. Of course you have to make good choices and that requires a good front office. Something we haven't had for while. Now maybe I'm misreading you because I haven't had the time to go through every post in this thread, but you seem to be making a connection between Tyreke leaving, and intentional tanking. I don't think that one has anything to do with the other.

Now that's just my opinion, and perhaps some will think that if we don't make the playoffs, it will be because we didn't resign Tyreke. Of course there's no way to prove that one way or the other. For instance, if by some miracle, we do make the playoffs, I'm not about to say its because we were smart enough to let Tyreke go. Neither premise can be proved. At this point, I think its a bit of a reach for anyone to think that a team, that hasn't been able to win 30 games for the last few years, is making intentional moves to tank the season. Hell, all they would have to do, is do nothing, and its almost a guarantee they'll miss the playoffs.

We can discuss the draft another time. But it is going to be a good one. Remember, no one thought we'd get Cousins or Tyreke. We missed out on players (Chandler Parsons) because someone didn't do their homework. Who thought IT would be as good as he turned out to be. There are very good players out there. You just have to put in the work.

I suppose there's that, but there's also the issue of holding on to your talent when you do get them, which is what I believe hrdboiled is getting at. Kevin Durants and Russell Westbrooks don't pop up in every draft. When they do, you better hang on to them. We don't know that we will get a star in the future, as it depends on a great number of factors ranging from draft position based on ping pong balls, the quality of our FO in scouting and "doing their homework" as you said, and the overall strength of the draft class. But we do know that Tyreke had the potential to be a star but we let him go. Who knows how long it will be until we draft another star player? It could turn out to be McLemore, or it could very well come after 5 more years of losing. As a Kings fan my patience wears thin. While this may not be entirely accurate I also believe that the Thunder had a collection of assets after trading Ray Allen, while we still have a lot of "baggage" left from the old regime (not to mention we owe the Cavs a draft pick) that we would be lucky to unload, and IMO we just added a bit of "baggage" in the form of a long term Carl Landry contract.