Kings and free agency - part 2

[theclash4u5]

Well the same way that people think Philly got the better of this deal, right?

Oh...

I see what you did there, except Philly knows they will suck next year and are perfectly happy with taking bad contracts. We can't take bad contracts/bad players and hope teams throw in 1st round picks, because those teams will be contenders. We are not a contender.

 

[Gary]

Sure. So since all we have left is cap space, what teams want to move guys for space only?

Nets: Dwill
Warriors: Lee
Hornets: Holiday (probably want a little more than cap space)
Who else?

Sorry.. Made me post that message.. I was thinking about trade deadline trades.. People probably want to offload players for space after their seasons are in shambles.. Hopefully we will be looking to pick up a player to help us in the playoffs! A guy can dream!

 

[theclash4u5]

It was reported that we contacted Rondo BEFORE we made the trade to clear space so Ellis and Matthews weren't even in the picture at that point and we heard only rumors about guys like Rondo and Lou Williams.

We contacted Rondo first because we only had $10M in cap space and Ellis and Matthews were pipe dreams. As soon as that space opened up, Rondo wasn't the first person we called back. I can guarantee that.

 

[jcwkings]

People forget that the Sixers have the Lakers pick next season(only top 3 protection). Between Okafor, Embiid, Noel and say they get two high lottery picks next year, and being in the East. They are not as far off as some would think. Plus they actually have really good coaching.

Meanwhile for us between letting Tyreke and IT leave(both should still be here) and firing Malone, signing Landry, it has been a disastrous two years in the Vivek era. The absolute only positive has been the Gay trade.

This team should realistically look like this

Collison/IT
Tyreke/Ben
Gay/Casspi
JT
Cuz

 

[steelevt]

Throw in Alan Anderson, and that would be massive success.



God NO!

I thought I read this morning we signed Alan Anderson...but it was James

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Lets hope its Vlade and Rudy tomorrrow meeting with Rajon with Vivek out of sight.

 

[The Hammer]

People forget that the Sixers have the Lakers pick next season(only top 3 protection). Between Okafor, Embiid, Noel and say they get two high lottery picks next year, and being in the East. They are not as far off as some would think. Plus they actually have really good coaching.

Meanwhile for us between letting Tyreke and IT leave(both should still be here) and firing Malone, signing Landry, it has been a disastrous two years in the Vivek era. The absolute only positive has been the Gay trade.

This team should realistically look like this

Collison/IT
Tyreke/Ben
Gay/Casspi
JT
Cuz

I would have preferred we signed IT and then traded him. Just was not at all a fan of that guy. And there's no way in hell he'd have been ok as a back up to Collison. Seriously?

 

[KingsCitizen]

So who do you suggest we are spending the 11, 10 on?

Well with the boatload of contracts handed out lately. I think a $10M for Rondo is sensible enough.
Then, I'll go with salary dump of Gallo from Denver $11M.
And $5M to Big Baby to generate some offense down low when DMC sits.

 

[Draft2007]

We contacted Rondo first because we only had $10M in cap space and Ellis and Matthews were pipe dreams. As soon as that space opened up, Rondo wasn't the first person we called back. I can guarantee that.

That's exactly my point. We had interest in Rondo from day 1 so he was part of the "potential" plan since day 1. Adding an additional 15-16 mil in space only opened up those other options (Ellis and Matthews). The Rondo option was always independent of Matthews/Ellis and doesn't necessarily classify as Option C just because of the order of the visits/offers.

 

[theclash4u5]

People forget that the Sixers have the Lakers pick next season(only top 3 protection). Between Okafor, Embiid, Noel and say they get two high lottery picks next year, and being in the East. They are not as far off as some would think. Plus they actually have really good coaching.

Meanwhile for us between letting Tyreke and IT leave(both should still be here) and firing Malone, signing Landry, it has been a disastrous two years in the Vivek era. The absolute only positive has been the Gay trade.

This team should realistically look like this

Collison/IT
Tyreke/Ben
Gay/Casspi
JT
Cuz

That's what scares me. We play in the Wild Wild West. We could win 38 games and miss a playoff spot by 10-12 games. All Philly has to do is pull a Bucks and sneak into the playoffs and they swap into the lottery. Twice.

 

[The_Jamal]

I would have preferred we signed IT and then traded him. Just was not at all a fan of that guy. And there's no way in hell he'd have been ok as a back up to Collison. Seriously?

It's honestly stunning people don't see how good IT was for this team.

 

[theclash4u5]

Well with the boatload of contracts handed out lately. I think a $10M for Rondo is sensible enough.
Then, I'll go with salary dump of Gallo from Denver $11M.
And $5M to Big Baby to generate some offense down low when DMC sits.

Denver is going to want some assets for that salary dump. Who are you going to send them? It's not like they are begging teams to take Gallo like we were with JT and Landry. They want something back.

 

[jcwkings]

I would have preferred we signed IT and then traded him. Just was not at all a fan of that guy. And there's no way in hell he'd have been ok as a back up to Collison. Seriously?

IT debate here seems like such a miniscule thing compared to what we are going through now. It was literally is an undersized scoring guard worth 7 million(Hell yes!! What a bargain that contract is now jesus christ). To now the whole organization is in flames. Good Lord.

 

[jcwkings]

It's honestly stunning people don't see how good IT was for this team.

Its really quite maddening, and in retrospect a huge majority of people on this site believed that IT was destroying this franchise from within. LOL

 

[theclash4u5]

Speaking of IT, no reason to pay Lou Williams to come here either. Same type of player that brings the same thing to a team. Instant offense off the bench with little to no defense.

 

[ockingsfan]

That's what scares me. We play in the Wild Wild West. We could win 38 games and miss a playoff spot by 10-12 games. All Philly has to do is pull a Bucks and sneak into the playoffs and they swap into the lottery. Twice.

Does anyone know what type of protection the traded pick and pick swap has.

There must be a top 10 protection, right?

 

[Gilles]

Well with the boatload of contracts handed out lately. I think a $10M for Rondo is sensible enough.
Then, I'll go with salary dump of Gallo from Denver $11M.
And $5M to Big Baby to generate some offense down low when DMC sits.

Gallo is injury prone. The guy I would like the most out of the whole Nuggets gang is by far Chandler.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Denver is going to want some assets for that salary dump. Who are you going to send them? It's not like they are begging teams to take Gallo like we were with JT and Landry. They want something back.

Well McCallum is a Malone guy. So might be worth a try. Otherwise, you split the money and sign 2 outside shooters. Say Bargs for $6M and Belinelli for $5M. And we celebrate each game we win with Italian flavored parties.

 

[Livinthedream]

Does anyone know what type of protection the traded pick and pick swap has.

There must be a top 10 protection, right?

I keep hearing it doesn't matter. We don't need picks. We have money to sign whatever free agent we want.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

I keep hearing it doesn't matter. We don't need picks. We have money to sign whatever free agent we want.

Which does nothing for us when no free agents want us, that's the problem

 

[peacelate]

It's honestly stunning people don't see how good IT was for this team.

Absolutely sucked to lose IT because everyone thought he was

That's what scares me. We play in the Wild Wild West. We could win 38 games and miss a playoff spot by 10-12 games. All Philly has to do is pull a Bucks and sneak into the playoffs and they swap into the lottery. Twice.

If the Kings win 38 games, the odds of their slot being in the top 3 is miniscule, like less than 1%.

 

[hrdboild]

To a certain extent these players are saving us from ourself. Monta Ellis would have been a disaster next to Rudy and DeMarcus (not to mention Rondo if he comes). $64 million guaranteed to a player coming off achilles surgery is a huge risk. He might not be any good for the first two years of that deal. Murphy's Law says that was a huge no no for a team with our snakebit injury history. Especially since we're still playing in Indian Burial Grounds Arena. Does it suck that the last three big free agents we went after took less money to play somewhere else? Of course it does. But let's not be so excited at the possibility of anything at all happening that we settle for panic deals and the presumed "nobody likes your city" overpay.

The Thompson and Landry deals were bad deals for us. Always were. I thought we should have moved on from Thompson after he showed zero progress 4 years in. Landry never should have been brought back a second time. We currently have nobody under contract who isn't either an important part of the rotation or on a minimum deal. This is a very good thing! Stauskas had some potential but Landry and Thompson were not helping us win anything. It cost us a little to clear out the salary cap filler, but as a fan of this team watching everything that we've done closely for the last 15 years, it was a good deal for us regardless of whether or not we got Rondo and Matthews. The national media can shove it. They've been consistently wrong about our franchise every single year. A first round pick to erase almost 16 million in sunk cost for the next two years? Sold! I thought we'd have to buy out Landry to create cap space. The only way we F this up is by signing more mediocre vets we don't need just to reach the salary floor. Who cares about the salary floor? The most it could possibly cost us is what we would have to pay anyway. Why not give that extra money to the players who actually do want to be in Sacramento as a bonus? Who gets mad about that? If you look hard enough you'll find 6 good players somewhere in the world who would kill to be on an NBA roster. That's the real NBA 3.0!

But we're not there yet, there are still some good options available. Rondo would give us a potential big three. Team chemistry is everything. If those three guys fully invest in each other I think we're a playoff team. Count me as a believer in Ben McLemore's progress. I think he'll be a key player for us next year. Personally I really like Kyle O'Quinn and Moe Harkless on Orlando and I think both are obtainable. Make it a sign and trade and give them Ray McCallum to back up Elfrid Payton. He's never going to play anyway behind Rondo and Collison. Then wait. Don't fritter all that cap space away on journeyman filler like Petrie would do every freakin year. Somebody big will be available at the trade deadline just like every year. Point is, salary cap space is the only currency that matters in the NBA. 25 other franchises are in a race to cap themselves out before the revenue even goes up. Good! Let them realize together that they screwed themselves out of all flexibility for the next 4-5 years. We'll be one of the few teams left with any leverage left and we can pick and choose how to use it.

 

[enigma99a]

Its really quite maddening, and in retrospect a huge majority of people on this site believed that IT was destroying this franchise from within. LOL

My biggest gripe with the pizza guy was his shot selection. And with boston he's averaging 6.6 3PA @ 34.5%.. Even worse than when he was here

 

[sdballer]

The national media can shove it. They've been consistently wrong about our franchise every single year.

Really? In what way have they been wrong about our franchise?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

To a certain extent these players are saving us from ourself. Monta Ellis would have been a disaster next to Rudy and DeMarcus (not to mention Rondo if he comes). $64 million guaranteed to a player coming off achilles surgery is a huge risk. He might not be any good for the first two years of that deal. Murphy's Law says that was a huge no no for a team with our snakebit injury history. Especially since we're still playing in Indian Burial Grounds Arena. Does it suck that the last three big free agents we went after took less money to play somewhere else? Of course it does. But let's not be so excited at the possibility of anything at all happening that we settle for panic deals and the presumed "nobody likes your city" overpay.

The Thompson and Landry deals were bad deals for us. Always were. I thought we should have moved on from Thompson after he showed zero progress 4 years in. Landry never should have been brought back a second time. We currently have nobody under contract who isn't either an important part of the rotation or on a minimum deal. This is a very good thing! Stauskas had some potential but Landry and Thompson were not helping us win anything. It cost us a little to clear out the salary cap filler, but as a fan of this team watching everything that we've done closely for the last 15 years, it was a good deal for us regardless of whether or not we got Rondo and Matthews. The national media can shove it. They've been consistently wrong about our franchise every single year. A first round pick to erase almost 16 million in sunk cost for the next two years? Sold! I thought we'd have to buy out Landry to create cap space. The only way we F this up is by signing more mediocre vets we don't need just to reach the salary floor. Who cares about the salary floor? The most it could possibly cost us is what we would have to pay anyway. Why not give that extra money to the players who actually do want to be in Sacramento as a bonus? Who gets mad about that? If you look hard enough you'll find 6 good players somewhere in the world who would kill to be on an NBA roster. That's the real NBA 3.0!

But we're not there yet, there are still some good options available. Rondo would give us a potential big three. Team chemistry is everything. If those three guys fully invest in each other I think we're a playoff team. Count me as a believer in Ben McLemore's progress. I think he'll be a key player for us next year. Personally I really like Kyle O'Quinn and Moe Harkless on Orlando and I think both are obtainable. Make it a sign and trade and give them Ray McCallum to back up Elfrid Payton. He's never going to play anyway behind Rondo and Collison. Then wait. Don't fritter all that cap space away on journeyman filler like Petrie would do every freakin year. Somebody big will be available at the trade deadline just like every year. Point is, salary cap space is the only currency that matters in the NBA. 25 other franchises are in a race to cap themselves out before the revenue even goes up. Good! Let them realize together that they screwed themselves out of all flexibility for the next 4-5 years. We'll be one of the few teams left with any leverage left and we can pick and choose how to use it.

Voice of reason. And while people panic about us offering "more" than Indy and Dallas, let's not forget those states have tax advantages (that it would be nice to see the NBA address somehow) that means they can offer "less" money that nets the player more income after taxes.

It's also quite possible if Wes takes 2 years to heal and come back that Dallas has taken them out of the playoff race for that stretch while we improve our stake. There's lots of guys that can come in and fit here and with most of the players having spent their money we can get guys on reasonable deals. LA has money but they are looking at different positions of need. Presumably same with Phoenix and any other team who was courting Aldridge.

 

[theclash4u5]

Does anyone know what type of protection the traded pick and pick swap has.

There must be a top 10 protection, right?

Pick has a top 10 protection, no details on how long or the swap yet.

 

[Livinthedream]

Which does nothing for us when no free agents want us, that's the problem

It feels like something poisoned the minds on this board where most couldn't see this would be the outcome. There was no reason to swap picks and give away draft picks to go after big name free agents. So desperate to get to the playoffs that we can't see what's really going on. We're sabotaging ourselves in more ways than one.
The argument is that at least we're trying. No, we're floundering. If we were trying, we would have done our homework in the draft the last couple years and not drafted 2 SGs in successive years. We would have kept Malone unless he was NOT doing his job. We would have FIRED PDA and brought in a GM instead of making Vlade play GM with no preparation. We would have listened to Cousins when he said Karl wasn't a match.

We are not trying. We're shooting in the dark and hoping something magically happens. We can't make these errors as a small market. Our management of the team has to be top notch or we can't succeed, no matter how much cap space we trade for.

 

[jcwkings]

This hasnt been talked about but what if we back out of the trade? It doesnt become official until next week.

 

[hrdboild]

It's honestly stunning people don't see how good IT was for this team.

I still feel exactly the opposite. It couldn't have been more obvious that we were a better team with Collison. Nobody saw the Malone firing coming at the time we let IT go, that's what screwed up our season not the loss of Isaiah Thomas. Perhaps we could have tried to pay him and then trade him but realistically that needed to happen at the trade deadline. Phoenix (who was everybody's favorite up and coming team a year ago) missed the playoffs, held a mid-season fire sale because their "All-NBA" PG felt marginalized, lost their Laker lottery pick which is only top 3 protected next year and just gave Brandon Knight and Tyson Chandler $120 million in guaranteed money. I'm not so sure that deal worked out as well for them as the "experts" are suggesting it did.

So yeah, it's stunning to me that anyone still thinks letting IT go hurt our team. I'll stake everything I know about basketball on the belief that it was addition by subtraction. And that's just one example of where the national narrative about Sacramento is diametrically opposed to reality.

 

[kingsfan101]

I honestly hate that man

Wow! That went down south pretty fast. Within two years of being the man who kept the Kings in town to being a hate figure.

While Vivek deserves a lot of criticism, (mostly for firing Malone, and yes, poking his nose in team affairs more than he should), our problems are much older. If FAs are giving us the skip, it's not just due to the last two years. It's been several years of issues before that too. And while we will never know for sure, there is a good chance he is much more hands off now, than he was earlier.

Coming back to the trade, I think we messed up, and bad. We probably felt that we will land some good guy by madly overpaying. Obviously our current reputation is so bad, that FAs are leaving large amounts to sign elsewhere.

I think we have little choice but to make some outlandish offer to Rondo, and some other guys not originally in our plans. Lesson for the future: build through the draft. Draft picks might have more value, and may actually help us get a decent player via trade. Sadly, it seems we have given up a lot of our future assets for possible trades.