Kings acquire Tristan Thompson for Delon Wright

[SacTownKid]

The weirdest notion i think I've ever seen is that Holmes isn't a good defender on this forum.

Yeah, he's just poundable by the true centers. Thompson to his credit is a bit better on post ups. Shotblocking? Nah. Athletic defensive rotations? Nah. Solid though.

 

[SacTownKid]

I get where people are coming from but it's exaggerated.

His defense is better than it looks but it's not legit rim protector type defense. If our guards (not counting Mitchell) are going to be revolving doors then I understand where people are coming from when they say Holmes isn't a good fit for us but he's a much better defender than he's been given credit for and has far exceeded what you'd expect from an undersized 5.

If Queta turns out to be that type, he and Holmes would make a heck of a pair depending on what the matchup is.

They weren't even revolving doors really. They played super small or big and couldn't effectively switch. So, they relied on helpers down in to the middle off the exact 3's teams salivate over. On run outs, the Kings were either too slow or too small to do anything. I'm interested to see how Mitchell does with pick and roll at the NBA level which is far more spread and not very physical so whistles will come much earlier. He's got the motor and the strength so maybe he can switch reliably. It will be an interesting experiment.

 

[kb02]

But he doesn’t. Not sure how many Boston games you watched last year.

Actually watched a ton of Boston games early in the season. Thompson provides more of an interior presence than Holmes. When Holmes was in, it was a layup line. He gets flashy blocks based off of hustle, but he’s not a shot alterer because of his lack of length. McNair admitted as much by taking the best on the ball defender on the perimeter and one of the best shot blocking goalies.

 

[kb02]

Yeah, he's just poundable by the true centers. Thompson to his credit is a bit better on post ups. Shotblocking? Nah. Athletic defensive rotations? Nah. Solid though.

Think they’ll need to do less switching, more funneling opponents to their bigs.

 

[Iced Espresso]

They didn't do their homework until 2 hours before it was due. At least with Holmes for sure. They knew they were limited in how they could bring him back. The back end of the year two of the most highly showcased players were Davis and Holmes. Both free agents to be. Instead of clearing cap to bring Holmes back, he added to win now at the deadline. We have to see what he does but Monte appears to be a really safe type of GM. The anti-Vlade if you will. Letting someone go if it's a bad deal is something he's obviously willing to do and considering where the Kings are at, I think it's the smart play. The question is if things head south, does he have the cajones to go FULL ON in a direction. He hasn't done that yet.

I'm not convinced. I'm going to wager Vivek told Monte to "reasonably" press for the play in.

 

[kb02]

I get where people are coming from but it's exaggerated.

His defense is better than it looks but it's not legit rim protector type defense. If our guards (not counting Mitchell) are going to be revolving doors then I understand where people are coming from when they say Holmes isn't a good fit for us but he's a much better defender than he's been given credit for and has far exceeded what you'd expect from an undersized 5.

If Queta turns out to be that type, he and Holmes would make a heck of a pair depending on what the matchup is.

Kings defensive problems weren’t all on him, but he’s just not good enough to be building a team around. You basically need 4 above average defenders on the floor with him for it to work defensively.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Nah, they are clearly looking for value out of Buddy. Some team would easily want him cheap if goal 1 is to move him. This is a reaction to Franz Wagner being gone at 9 and going "bpa".

I’m specifically talking about entering Holmes’s free agency without a backup. We “had” Trez and lost him. If this was just a panic about Wagner we’d have picked the next forward/wing. There were reports we hadn’t worked out Wagner either. Lord knows we got really good looks at just about everyone else. If we didn’t pick Mitchell for someone else odds are it’s consistent with Monte picking the best defender available.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I have been working all day and come home to this?

My two cents:

1) I don't want to hear that TT is cheap insurance in case Holmes doesn't re-sign. We probably could have found a cheap big as a hold over if that indeed happens. We didn't need to trade for one.
2) this trade confirms that Monte sees Davion Mitchell as a backup point guard. He believed that the best player available in the draft was a 6th man. That really concerns me. A team with 2 long term starters needs....another starter! Maybe he is a rich man's Pat Bev/Smart and he will be proven right but if he is that good he won't be happy in a reserve role for long.
3) If we find a trade partner for Buddy, what will our starting lineup look like? We aren't going to get a plus wing back for a sharp shooting reserve 2 guard.

Fox Off Night
Hali Davis
____ Woodard
Barnes
Holmes/TT Queta

 

[sactowndog]

Nah, they are clearly looking for value out of Buddy. Some team would easily want him cheap if goal 1 is to move him. This is a reaction to Franz Wagner being gone at 9 and going "bpa".

I suspect Giddey being gone was the bigger shock. A number of teams expected Wagner to be gone. But they didn’t expect wing, wing, wing at 6,7,8.

 

[ockingsfan]

My biggest issue with this trade is not so much Wright for TT, but I was hoping Wright would had been included in a bigger trade (i.e. Buddy trade) to get someone good back.

Ultimately, Wright would had stood in DM way to establish himself, so clearing a spot was DM is good. But, I think we could had waited to see what trade opportunites materialized once Free Agency started, instead of jumping on this trade so fast. Wright would had been a good sweetener in a potential trade. Hopefully, Monte can still get good value back in any Buddy trade.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yeah, he's just poundable by the true centers. Thompson to his credit is a bit better on post ups. Shotblocking? Nah. Athletic defensive rotations? Nah. Solid though.

Ok sure, but who doesn't struggle vs KAT? Embiid? Jokic? I think the most important factor with your big is his ability to hedge the PnR and his switchability out onto guards. Holmes is elite at that aspect and is easily one of the best bigs in the NBA at doing so.

I do like the process of Queeta though. He could fill in the gaps that Holmes leaves vs the bigger centers. And for 90% of the rest of the match-ups/games, Holmes defense is what you're actually looking for.

 

[jiimbob]

I suspect Giddey being gone was the bigger shock. A number of teams expected Wagner to be gone. But they didn’t expect wing, wing, wing at 6,7,8.

Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if Giddey was the choice if available. Great size for a super creative PG, could likely eventually play some 3.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I suspect Giddey being gone was the bigger shock. A number of teams expected Wagner to be gone. But they didn’t expect wing, wing, wing at 6,7,8.

So Giddey was the big shock but it does seem that Barnes leaping Suggs set off a chain reaction, especially with Orlando picking twice between 5 and 8.

That said 10-20 also broke the mocks.

 

[Tetsujin]

So Giddey was the big shock but it does seem that Barnes leaping Suggs set off a chain reaction, especially with Orlando picking twice between 5 and 8.

That said 10-20 also broke the mocks.

The second the Grizzlies went with Ziare at 10, it was game over for the mocks

 

[steelevt]

So Giddey was the big shock but it does seem that Barnes leaping Suggs set off a chain reaction, especially with Orlando picking twice between 5 and 8.

That said 10-20 also broke the mocks.

I feel if Orlando would have gotten Barnes they might have chosen DM with the 8 and we could have chosen Wagner or moody. I know moody was lower than DM on monte’s draft board but with him gone, we might have gone wing

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I feel if Orlando would have gotten Barnes they might have chosen DM with the 8 and we could have chosen Wagner or moody. I know moody was lower than DM on monte’s draft board but with him gone, we might have gone wing

Yeah I think they expected him off the board and we’d have picked Moody but they viewed DM as a sure piece of an 8-9 man playoff rotation whereas Moody has a lower floor but fits the glaring need. Gamble for sure but for a team that seems like it only has two or three players that are likely to be here in two years I can’t be mad with that evaluation with all of the question marks.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1421240440620077056

Apparently Bobby Marks has never heard of the Early Bird exception.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

They didn't do their homework until 2 hours before it was due. At least with Holmes for sure. They knew they were limited in how they could bring him back.

I don't think anybody ever signs a vet to a 2/$10M contract thinking...gee, what happens if this dude blows up and we can't offer more than the Early Bird? Just saying. The alternative is offering 3/$15 to a guy that might just wash out after a year. It's not like we knew Holmes was going to succeed before we signed him.

 

[sactowndog]

I don't think anybody ever signs a vet to a 2/$10M contract thinking...gee, what happens if this dude blows up and we can't offer more than the Early Bird? Just saying. The alternative is offering 3/$15 to a guy that might just wash out after a year. It's not like we knew Holmes was going to succeed before we signed him.

I think the point was looking to trade him for assets last year as this crunch was pretty easily foreseen. The problem is short term Vivek sole focus is making the play-offs every trade deadline regardless where the Kings stand and trading Holmes was not an option.

now is that Vivek’s fault or Monte’s for continuing to tell Vivek what he wants to hear versus doing what’s right for the long term.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think the point was looking to trade him for assets last year as this crunch was pretty easily foreseen. The problem is short term Vivek sole focus is making the play-offs every trade deadline regardless where the Kings stand and trading Holmes was not an option.

now is that Vivek’s fault or Monte’s for continuing to tell Vivek what he wants to hear versus doing what’s right for the long term.

It's hard to get fair value on a player outperforming their bargain contract. And when we do make moves the players they bring it get torn to shreds by the people who can always do it better. I'm not going to say you don't have valid points from time to time but if we shipped every player when you said to, or took on bad contracts so we didn't lose something for nothing every time, etc. etc. we'd probably be in far worse shape than we are now. The guy is literally one day into his second offseason - we still haven't opened free agency and he can't do anything right? He hasn't even had 365 days on the job and at least it's clear that defense, something Kings fans have been complaining about dating back to the glory days, is a #1 priority. I'm going to at least give him until he gets his first coaching hire before I write him off or start dancing in the streets.

 

[NewArena]

I don't see any news about the Kings letting Richaun walk for nothing. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion or bring up Bogi when it was never our plan to let Bogi walk for nothing in the first place.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This is a bad team and players are going to leave for nothing. I suggest visiting the Suns timeline from the point James Jones took over. There are literally two players left over and people who didn't know better were interviewing Ryan McDonough what it was like to see his team in the NBA finals.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't think anybody ever signs a vet to a 2/$10M contract thinking...gee, what happens if this dude blows up and we can't offer more than the Early Bird? Just saying. The alternative is offering 3/$15 to a guy that might just wash out after a year. It's not like we knew Holmes was going to succeed before we signed him.

No, probably not, but if he's that important to you, I'm sure you can find a way to clear up another 8-10 million at the prior deadline to get it done. It didn't shock me he succeeded. It's a repeated pattern of pushing role players over potential. They boosted Jason Thompson over a top 10 pick and overpaid him in much the same way while that value rotted and the Kings still stood there looking on from the outside of the playoff window just like they have ever since. It's simply something perpetually bad franchises do.

 

[SacTownKid]

Think they’ll need to do less switching, more funneling opponents to their bigs.

Then they have no choice but to get over every screen. The Roy Hibbert style of zoning the big off pick and roll has been dead since his last good season and we saw Jokic get absolutely slaughtered in the playoffs this year doing it. Even blue on a pnr has lost it's general effectiveness since so many small ball teams can create shots or drive opportunities from the sidelines or just look to immediately shoot off the screen anyway. If they are that high on Mitchell I would think they are finally committing to pressure defense as they should. Playing off bigger teams or sending to help is what they did last year. If you are running multiple guard lineups you have to attack the dribble at every turn and play up on almost every screen because the closer the ball gets to the rim the less likely you're able to help because of that size difference. It puts too much pressure on the shotblocker and teams are primarily looking to kick it back out anyway and then comes the issue on run outs and generally contesting spot 3's from much bigger teams.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't see any news about the Kings letting Richaun walk for nothing. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion or bring up Bogi when it was never our plan to let Bogi walk for nothing in the first place.

If the Kings are capped on what they can offer there is almost no incentive for a team nor Holmes to seek sign and trades. The Kings could have matched any deal Bogdan got had they wanted to which puts pressure on teams to seek a sign and trade.

 

[kb02]

Then they have no choice but to get over every screen. The Roy Hibbert style of zoning the big off pick and roll has been dead since his last good season and we saw Jokic get absolutely slaughtered in the playoffs this year doing it. Even blue on a pnr has lost it's general effectiveness since so many small ball teams can create shots or drive opportunities from the sidelines or just look to immediately shoot off the screen anyway. If they are that high on Mitchell I would think they are finally committing to pressure defense as they should. Playing off bigger teams or sending to help is what they did last year. If you are running multiple guard lineups you have to attack the dribble at every turn and play up on almost every screen because the closer the ball gets to the rim the less likely you're able to help because of that size difference. It puts too much pressure on the shotblocker and teams are primarily looking to kick it back out anyway and then comes the issue on run outs and generally contesting spot 3's from much bigger teams.

At the end of games, Mitchell, in college, has shown he can pressure. Fox has the tools to pressure. Barnes can do it as well. That leaves Hali as the only unknown. While the five spot roams the paint.

 

[sactowndog]

It's hard to get fair value on a player outperforming their bargain contract. And when we do make moves the players they bring it get torn to shreds by the people who can always do it better. I'm not going to say you don't have valid points from time to time but if we shipped every player when you said to, or took on bad contracts so we didn't lose something for nothing every time, etc. etc. we'd probably be in far worse shape than we are now. The guy is literally one day into his second offseason - we still haven't opened free agency and he can't do anything right? He hasn't even had 365 days on the job and at least it's clear that defense, something Kings fans have been complaining about dating back to the glory days, is a #1 priority. I'm going to at least give him until he gets his first coaching hire before I write him off or start dancing in the streets.

it wasn’t my point. I was clarifying what I thought he said. I wouldn’t have traded Holmes. I would have traded Barnes into Boston’s TPE which would have created cap space for signing Richaun.

 

[sactowndog]

So it essentially cost 2 2nd round picks to save a few mil on Cojo's contract.

Where did we save. The buy-out for CoJo was 2M and the cost of Thompson is 9M. 9M Boston wanted to get off their books. I watched Boston quite a bit last year. We could have gotten Thompson as a salary dump in a Barnes deal.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I don't see any news about the Kings letting Richaun walk for nothing. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion or bring up Bogi when it was never our plan to let Bogi walk for nothing in the first place.

This also gets an * with Vlade the GM at the previous deadline. McNair walked into it after.

 

[whozit]

......

now is that Vivek’s fault or Monte’s for continuing to tell Vivek what he wants to hear versus doing what’s right for the long term.

The question started out good until you put words into McNair's mouth. Neither you nor I know what McNair is saying to Vivek. Either good or bad.

If McNair is BS'ing Vivek like you imply, he takes partial responsibility. If Vivek is dictating direction, which is his right, McNair should only be judged by how good of lemonade he made out of lemons. He took the job with Vivek's reputation out there, so that is on him.