Incidentally this is why he is the ideal 6th man and a questionable starter. Those are intangible qualities off the bench.
KING IN ARABIC
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
ockingsfan
Starter
Yes, but he is an unrestricted free agent and he does not need to accept that role anymore. He sacrificed for the team and embraced the role.
IMO MB was far too rigid with his rotation and didn't even give him the chance to start when the other guards were injured. For most teams, the 6th man takes the spot, when a starter goes down, MB never gave Monk that shot.
I think Monk could also be a quality starter at SG if we are able to get the right player around him and the rest of the core. We need to find a defensive big/ shot blocker opposite Domas to make it work, which I think would be easier than replacing what Monk brings to this team.
And now we're going to sacrifice the good of the team to appease his ego? No thanks. We're far better off with Keon in the starting lineup and Monk or a player like Monk off the bench.
Or I guess we can just rebuild the rest of the team to fit that square peg into a round hole.
Also where do you get this PF with no money? In other threads we're talking about BI as a possible answer which is exactly the type of player that does not fill that gap. Because of Domas's reluctance to shoot the 3 we are going to need this shotblocking defensive PF to also shoot from the perimeter and so this will not be an MLE player.
Or I guess we can just rebuild the rest of the team to fit that square peg into a round hole.
Also where do you get this PF with no money? In other threads we're talking about BI as a possible answer which is exactly the type of player that does not fill that gap. Because of Domas's reluctance to shoot the 3 we are going to need this shotblocking defensive PF to also shoot from the perimeter and so this will not be an MLE player.
Section 101
All-Star
Coaches give starting jobs not GMs.
And Brown gave Keon the starting job when Huerter went out so I think this is the point I am making. Promising the starting job is undermining the coach.
ockingsfan
Starter
I would think that any free agent negotiations with your own free agent would include input from the coach. I'm sure if Monte offered a shot at the starting spot to Monk with the hopes of re-signing one of his best players, I would think MB would have to give his blessings. It's not as though Monk can't just call or text MB to confirm his standing on the team before he made his decision.
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Hopefully he considers that what he "sacrificed", is part of what put him in this position to get a big contract
ockingsfan
Starter
Yes, one would hope. But this is a business and I wouldn't fault him for taking more money and a starting job elsewhere.
Here is the thing, if Monk sacrificed and stayed a 6th man for the Kings, his next contract would also be limited and curtailed because he would be locked into a "6th Man" role when he hits free agency again in 4 years. That could make an even bigger difference in his next contract 4 years down the road than it is now. He could be sacrificing somewhere between $20-50+ million in potential salary be accepting being a career 6th man as opposed to a star level starting SG. That's not a sacrifice most players would make and I wouldn't begrudge him if he didn't.
ockingsfan
Starter
That sounds more like a Domas problem than a Monk problem. Domas is a big boy and he is being paid like an elite big man. Domas needs to put on his big boy pants and shot 3-4 3s per game for the betterment of the team and the roster construction.
If Domas can do that, we could draft a defensive shot blocking big with very good touch around the rim like the 7'4" Zach Edey to erase mistakes made by other players. He could play goalie like what Rudy Gobert does for KAT and the Wolves.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
This whole argument comes completely unraveled when it comes to light there is a zero percent chance of replacing Monk with a player like Monk. Saying that like it’s an easily accomplishable task is almost laughable. The importance he holds to this team isn’t going to be just patched with an MLE guy.
So now we have Keon in the starting lineup, no one like Monk … and what happens if Keon regresses like every other “diamond in the rough” we’ve found throughout the years? Letting Monk walk in large part because you’re putting all the money in Keon Ellis stock is silly, and I say that as a huge fan of Keon.
That seems like more steps backwards than simply tweaking the dynamics of a starting roster that wasn’t even good enough to make the playoffs.
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Yeah, I wouldn't fault him for taking more money. I just don't think he'll ever be a "star level" starting player, if we're actually looking at the things that a good playoff team needs. Things beyond just scoring.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
You really want the Kings to go with two 5's in the starting lineup?
ockingsfan
Starter
Domas has actually played both PF and Center and is listed as a Power Forward.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He plays like a 5, with all go to shots near the hoop and not a matchup on D against stretch 4's. Either way, you want to play a 5 with Sabonis in a starting lineup?
Telemachus
Starter
I don't understand the argument here. Wether or not Monk leaves will rely entirely on what he is offered by other teams. The Kings are capped on what they can offer and promising a starting position won't change that and would make no sense from the Kings' perspective.
While losing Monk hurt the Kings late in the season, I think that had a lot more to do with him being their only consistent bench player for most of the season. It put way too much pressure on the starters to do everything.
While losing Monk hurt the Kings late in the season, I think that had a lot more to do with him being their only consistent bench player for most of the season. It put way too much pressure on the starters to do everything.
ockingsfan
Starter
He played the 4 and 5 in Indiana next to Myles Turner and was an All-Star. But for Domas to play the 4 here, he would need to shoot more 3s, which he is capable (37.9% on 3 pointers), but reluctant.
The other option would be to get a 3 and D 4 to fill in opposite Domas.
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He's reluctant to take a 15-17 footer! He's got to prove he can be effective from outside the paint, before the team commits to any other strategy
ockingsfan
Starter
The problem with Domas is that the center is supposed to be your defensive anchor and the last line of defense and he clearly is not.
If the Kings ever want to become anything else besides a fringe playoff team, they will need to shore up the defense in the middle with someone bigger and longer than Domas, whether that's at the 4 or the 5. If Domas would just shoot the outside jumper more often (even just 2 more 3s per game), that would make Monte's job a lot easier.
PorchSurfin
Starter
I'm sorry but according to you this season was the lousiest in history and the team was extremely unlikeable. Now all of a sudden you are championing resigning Monk and starting him, when starting him (over Keon who brings a balance to the starters and honestly, let's be fair, when Keon started and Monk was healthy and came off the bench the Kings were a damn good team) would make our backcourt undersized and weaken our defense AS well as weaken our bench?
Posts just always feel so bi-polar.
ockingsfan
Starter
I'm not sure if it's being bi-polar or the fact that our option would be starting Monk or losing him for nothing in unrestricted free agency.
Which may be what it comes down to, if a team likes Orlando offers Monk more money and a starting job on a playoff caliber team. Our wildcard is offering him something he clearly wants and that's a shot at starting.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And it also actually puts Brown 2 years behind the 8 ball. He never even tested Monk as a starter. Not once. If it messes up the offensive flow then what? It's risky enough even considering paying a 6th man nearly 20 million a year let alone all the other potential issues.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Huerter and Monk play entirely different roles though too. Brown could actually have run a lot of pick and roll he gave to Monk to Huerter, but Brown didn't see that as what he wanted.
ockingsfan
Starter
Yeah, that was some of the questionable rotations from MB that I was talking about. There was plenty of times when Fox or Huerter was injured and MB never put Monk in the starting line up, which would had been the natural thing to do for most coaches.
It would had been good to see Monk tried in the starting line up, however I'm sure there are advanced stats from when he was playing alongside Fox, Sabonis and Keegan that we can project his potential fit in the starting 5.
One of these threads has actual numbers when Monk is playing with the projected starters and the Kings are in the red per 100 possessions with Monk while they are in the black with Keon. I think it's somewhere between a 7-10 point differential while also being the difference between a positive and negative +/- when Keon is with the starters vs Monk. I don't know how to find these splits and a quick google didn't find them either. Hopefully whoever posted them originally can share.
twslam07
All-Star
Ellis w/ the Starters
261 min
107.0 OFFRTG
105.8 DEFRTG
+1.2 NETRTG
Monk w/ the Starters
151 min
115.3 OFFRTG
117.0 DEFTG
-1.8 NETRTG
Now only if we could find a player with Monk’s offense and Ellis’ defense we’d have a NETRTG of +9.5
Ok so not as wide as I thought but it still shows why I don't like Monk as starter.Ellis w/ the Starters
261 min
107.0 OFFRTG
105.8 DEFRTG
+1.2 NETRTG
Monk w/ the Starters
151 min
115.3 OFFRTG
117.0 DEFTG
-1.8 NETRTG
Now only if we could find a player with Monk’s offense and Ellis’ defense we’d have a NETRTG of +9.5
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Ellis w/ the Starters
261 min
107.0 OFFRTG
105.8 DEFRTG
+1.2 NETRTG
Monk w/ the Starters
151 min
115.3 OFFRTG
117.0 DEFTG
-1.8 NETRTG
Now only if we could find a player with Monk’s offense and Ellis’ defense we’d have a NETRTG of +9.5
The question is what do the numbers look like with Monk as a starter and a defense first player at the 4?
one other thing I’d add, we were hovering around 19th on defense all year until they changed how they ref/ Ellis came in. Do you have those Ratings for just post all star break?
Telemachus
Starter
I don't think that would make any difference. If Orlando offers him $20 million or more, he is likely signing with them no matter what the Kings offer. I also am of the opinion that his worth to the team is much higher as a 6th man than as a starter. Imagine what the King's defense would have looked like with Keon as the starter for the whole season. And his offense was getting better and more consistent with each game.
As much as we will miss Monk if he leaves, there are options for the Kings to replace his production. Heurter was a solid bench player before he became a starter for the Kings. I also expect improvement and more playing time for Colby Jones next season. Then there is the draft and free agency. If the Kings can acquire a better starter to replace Barnes, he likely moves to the bench where he could be very productive. We will have to wait and see what Monte has up his sleeves.
twslam07
All-Star
Ellis w/ the Starters
253 min
108.3 OFFRTG
105.3 DEFRTG
+3.0 NETRTG
Monk w/ the Starters
25 min
121.8 OFFRTG
125.0 DEFTG
-3.2 NETRTG
twslam07
All-Star
Maybe we look at 4 man lineups post all star break to increase the sample size?
Ellis-Fox-Murray-Sabonis
306 min
106.5 OFFRTG
105.1 DEFRTG
+1.4 NETRTG
Monk-Fox-Murray-Sabonis
84 min
110.1 OFFRTG
112.8 DEFTG
-2.7 NETRTG
