Excellent break down. Thanks for sharing. Demar as a 4 on defense is really interesting.
KING DEMAR
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Excellent break down. Thanks for sharing. Demar as a 4 on defense is really interesting.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Yeh he mentioned Cam but thought we needed someone more physical to balance things out. Neither him or his cohost who covers the Pistons really see Stew as a starting 4. More as a 5 that flexes to the 4.
twslam07
All-Star
Yeah I don’t think Cam Johnson is what we need. He’s a SF in my book and only has a 8’7” standing reach and 6’10” wingspan. In fact, his measurements are nearly identical to Klay Thompson.
Sure, but Monk also just agreed to a new 4 year deal. Unless we promised him a starting role (doesn't sound like we did), he knows him continuing to come off the bench is probably pretty likely. Especially with DDR here now.
twslam07
All-Star
I think playing with Monk has helped him develop that skill. He very often defers to him when they’re on the court together.
I’m not really worried about Fox playing off the ball considering he can space the floor for DeRozan. I’m immensely more worried about DeRozan playing off the ball considering he’s not a good floor spacer for Fox. We’ll have to see how it works/plays out…
twslam07
All-Star
One additional thought on bringing DeRozan aboard is what this might mean for Murray's 2nd contract.
Murray has 2 more years left on his rookie deal and then he's up for a new deal. Fox, Monk, DeRozan, and Sabonis are all under contract for the next 2 years. That's a lot of offensive firepower which makes me wonder if Murray's offensive numbers are really going to be THAT impressive when he's due for a new contract?
I could see a scenario where we extend Murray to a contract that is less than the 25% max that 0-6 year players can get all the while Murray is learning from DeRozan and Fox and developing his offensive game in the background (he just can't really show it off because of the other offensive talent in front of him).
DeRozan's 3 year contract is up at the end of the 2026-27 season. He'll be 37 at that point (38 at the start of the 2027-28 season). It's likely that DeRozan may retire or be in a lesser role at that point. Murray will be 27 years old entering the 2027-28 season (Fox will be 29, Sabonis will be 31, Monk will be 29, Ellis will be 27, and Carter will be 25) and potentially in a position to showoff his offensive stardom while being on a contract that is less than the max (allowing McNair to add more pieces around the core).
That would be some 4D chess on Monte's part if this ultimately drives down Murray's next contract while, at the same time, giving him an excellent mentor to learn from to help grow his offensive game for when the time comes to have DeRozan hand the reigns to Murray.
Murray has 2 more years left on his rookie deal and then he's up for a new deal. Fox, Monk, DeRozan, and Sabonis are all under contract for the next 2 years. That's a lot of offensive firepower which makes me wonder if Murray's offensive numbers are really going to be THAT impressive when he's due for a new contract?
I could see a scenario where we extend Murray to a contract that is less than the 25% max that 0-6 year players can get all the while Murray is learning from DeRozan and Fox and developing his offensive game in the background (he just can't really show it off because of the other offensive talent in front of him).
DeRozan's 3 year contract is up at the end of the 2026-27 season. He'll be 37 at that point (38 at the start of the 2027-28 season). It's likely that DeRozan may retire or be in a lesser role at that point. Murray will be 27 years old entering the 2027-28 season (Fox will be 29, Sabonis will be 31, Monk will be 29, Ellis will be 27, and Carter will be 25) and potentially in a position to showoff his offensive stardom while being on a contract that is less than the max (allowing McNair to add more pieces around the core).
That would be some 4D chess on Monte's part if this ultimately drives down Murray's next contract while, at the same time, giving him an excellent mentor to learn from to help grow his offensive game for when the time comes to have DeRozan hand the reigns to Murray.
Double-K
Starter
Moreover, emotionally, DeMar certainly should have a chip on his shoulder if he truly loves to win since last time his Toronto decided that HE particularly is disposable for Kawhi, and immediately they won a chip. Any athlete worth their salt would have a hard time eating that up.
DeMar has to be serious about winning this time around if he ever had any interest in winning.
(PS: We are also getting Diar DeRozan to scream and distract the away teams... That has to count for something, right?)
DeMar has to be serious about winning this time around if he ever had any interest in winning.
(PS: We are also getting Diar DeRozan to scream and distract the away teams... That has to count for something, right?)
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
I actually thought he had one of the better write ups about this trade, at least compared to some of the other nonsense I've seen. He admits the Kings didn't give up an unreasonable amount for DRoz, that the Kings are a better team bc of the trade, but isn't convinced they are a top 5 team in the WC. I don't think that's an outlandish take. I also appreciate that he acknowledges that this trade doesn't mean the Kings are done improving. That they still have room to make future trades.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
I think I was just fed up going into article with all the other stuff, so might have been biased, just felt it was fairly critical where it didn’t need to be be. For instance the unreasonable part, to me there was nothing that even constituted to bring up unreasonable…they didn’t give up anything …. I get they did the pick swap, but come on.
Löwenherz
Starter
I can only think the dramatic aversion to pick swaps is evolutionary. Like, our lizard brains consider it worse to give someone the power to take something of ours and force us to take back something worse than it is just to willingly give them that thing wholesale with nothing in return.
I read this article in The Ringer from a few years ago by Zack Kram that stated based on data and crunching numbers, a pick swap is worth no more than the 36th overall pick.
Link: Real Value of Pick Swap
I don’t really understand the process they took to determine that, and even after Google, I don’t know who Zack Kram is, but it supports my stance, so I’m quoting them.
Taking out the variable of projecting team success, on the surface, a pick swap only has a 50% chance of conveying at all, and even when it does, you still have a first round draft pick.
By all measures a swap is far better than outright trading a pick, or even a protected pick.
But our lizard brains hate the thought of chancing into being bullied on draft night.
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Like I have mentioned trading the pick nobody would have blinked about trading a pick that far out. It is more a reaction to a team that right now people think is going to be a dynasty coupled with the mere hint that it is unprotected meaning it could net a #1 overall becoming pick 32 assuming expansion and Spurs being the next Dubs. That's a lot to take in.
BUT, the psychological impact of potentially watching it happen on lottery night vs. knowing today "ok, we don't have a pick in 2031" I don't think that can be understated when it happens.
BUT, the psychological impact of potentially watching it happen on lottery night vs. knowing today "ok, we don't have a pick in 2031" I don't think that can be understated when it happens.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
If Chicago got the swap I don’t think anyone would care. It’s the fact that the do nothing Spurs got it that is annoying
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KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I watched this last night and also thought it was well done. Solid reasoning.
Folsomkingsfan
Starter
He didn't think the Kings gave up much for him, but also doesn't think DeRozan is enough of a needle mover to justify Barnes and an unprotected swap going into age 35. Again, I don't think this is an unreasonable take. There is a totally realistic chance the Kings are rebuilding when that pick conveys. But he also thinks this was a move the Kings needed to make because of their current team make up and their previous 15 years of futility. The more I think about, the more I think he actually has the perfect take on the situation lol.
well yeah I don't think anyone would even be afraid of the pick conveying to Chicago even. But we could have given them the pick (no swap) I wouldn't like that much but it would be fine given how far out it is. The weird thing of course is I'd much rather give Spurs our first available swap. It's definitely people over celebrating the Spurs dumb luck here.
There's also a totally realistic chance we aren't?
Nobody knows what the NBA landscape will be in 7 years. Of course, the absolute nut worst outcome of us being the #1 pick and the Spurs #30, is possible, but people seem to act like that's essentially what we gave up here. Which is dumb.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Funny, but wrt the pick swap, I recently had someone here telling me that draft picks aren’t “gold” and are often overrated. This was in response to the Knicks surrendering so many draft picks (and a pick swap) to land Mikal Bridges.
Why is it that trading away 4 FRP’s and a swap is such a tremendous deal for NY (according to the masses) yet the KINGS surrendering a single pick swap 7 years from now is so detrimentally bad?
Same goes for Philly signing Paul George to a mega deal. Why is it great for them to spend so much money on an aging player yet the KINGS are idiots for spending a fraction of the money on a player of a similar age?
The double standards here are getting out of control.
Yes, I get that Bridges is much younger than DDR thus the draft picks makes sense. My point is more about why the draft picks are treated as not such a big deal in that case yet overvalued when it comes to the KINGS and the single pick swap. It just doesn’t make sense.
captain bill
All-Star
While I think that's generally correct I would have at least liked to see top 5 / top 3 / even top 1. Look at Atlanta winning this year with just a 3% chance.
Altho I'm not sure the extent that having the pick encumbered would impact us. Very much low risk for this FO, given we'll either be good that year or they'll be gone.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Sure but that is entirely the fault of the Bulls who seem more determined than ever to extract as little value from their good players as humanely possible
I don't see it that way. The Spurs did do something - they took on salary that they didn't have to in order to facilitate the deal. They were within their rights to say "no, thanks" and walk away. Interestingly, the fact that DeRozan had previously played for the Spurs organization may have worked in our favor here, because the Spurs potentially viewed this as "helping their old friend DeRozan".
The team that did mostly nothing was Chicago. They were not re-signing DeRozan, they didn't want to take salary back, they basically said the whole thing was a Kings+DeRozan problem and not a Bulls problem. Obviously they finally took on a year of Duarte for two seconds (cash value of the picks probably means they come out ahead at this point), but they were willing to force DeRozan to sign an MLE deal or go begging around the few rebuilding franchises who had cap space for a bit more green.
San Antonio totally deserves that pick swap, not Chicago.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Yeh I get it and Chicago is totally at fault for blowing it but I still don’t like it. Spurs got value for their money by getting a veteran wing who shoots almost 40 percent, plays in 82 and has a reasonable and relatively short contract. They probably would have just kept Graham who they wouldn’t have played and then still needed to sign a player to get to the salary floor.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Saw this last night. Pretty much all of it Now, is DDR the perfect fit? No. As said here. Age, shooting, etc. but for Monte's cost criteria it was by far the best option imaginable.
Much of this videos points was why Grant was a better option than Kuz as a big move. The Kings were almost entirely dependent on the catch outside of Fox for two seasons. Kuz is as well. When you watched the biggest production games of both last season Grant was able to create from a full stop. Kuz was almost all off the catch. That's the difference between being a star most nights and not most times. Keeping defenders locked to your hip and maneuvering to the basket is a separating type of skill as a scorer.
I think DDR is going to be a great mentor for someone like Carter to model his game after as well. They do very similar things. Carter is missing the mid range right now but off the bounce there are similarities. This play at the start of the video in particular is one reason why Carter has terrific upside as this teams 3rd creator in time.
A lot of defenses try and shadow or shade drivers like that. The ability to lock the defender to the hip and even switch to the other hip is something DeMar does as well. If I'm Brown I want Carter watching DDR almost every play.
Not sure why they didn't ask Buddy onto the panel for good measure
Gil really falling into his niche as a far far far far far worse Skip Bayless/Stephen A and just firing the worst takes imaginable is certainly something
Hoovtrain
All-Star
Always found him annoying and he’s gotten even more obnoxious after basketball
Big talk from one dude who was a bust and one who is an idiot who got kick out of the league for bringing guns to the locker room
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