KING DEMAR

[206Fan]

Fox settling for threes is what catapulted him from a top 20 scorer into a top 10 scorer. And since Sabonis is our #2 and he's not a high-volume scorer this was realistically the best move Fox could make for his career. The resulting basketball might not be as fun to watch, but amongst Fox's peers in the #1 option category his volume and efficiency on three point shots is pretty normal. Jayson Tatum, for example, has made First Team All NBA three years in a row shooting about the same volume and percentage from three (on average) that Fox just did.

Having DeRozan out on the floor demanding attention from the defense should result in better shot opportunities for all of our shooters, Fox included. Hopefully that means we see an uptick in outside shooting percentages across the board.

Ehhh. Fox being a top 10 scorer last year doesn’t mean a whole lot when his TS% was worse than the previous year when he shot just 32.4% from 3pt on 5 attempts. The same year where he made All-NBA and became an All-Star.

Fox finding his 3pt stroke is really important, but I think he needs to find a happy medium. He’s far from the reason why we lost against the Pelicans, but in that game alone, he shot 16 3s. Maybe it was desperation, but you don’t want him to start leaning on the 3s, especially when he’s historically been a poor 3pt shooter.

 

[dude12]

Ehhh. Fox being a top 10 scorer last year doesn’t mean a whole lot when his TS% was worse than the previous year when he shot just 32.4% from 3pt on 5 attempts. The same year where he made All-NBA and became an All-Star.

Fox finding his 3pt stroke is really important, but I think he needs to find a happy medium. He’s far from the reason why we lost against the Pelicans, but in that game alone, he shot 16 3s. Maybe it was desperation, but you don’t want him to start leaning on the 3s, especially when he’s historically been a poor 3pt shooter.

If Fox’s supporting cast doesn’t shoot the 3 at a high level, then defenses will pack the paint again. I think that was a big contributor to Fox shooting more 3’s

 

[hrdboild]

Ehhh. Fox being a top 10 scorer last year doesn’t mean a whole lot when his TS% was worse than the previous year when he shot just 32.4% from 3pt on 5 attempts. The same year where he made All-NBA and became an All-Star.

Fox finding his 3pt stroke is really important, but I think he needs to find a happy medium. He’s far from the reason why we lost against the Pelicans, but in that game alone, he shot 16 3s. Maybe it was desperation, but you don’t want him to start leaning on the 3s, especially when he’s historically been a poor 3pt shooter.

Well his numbers on the whole were better this past season then in the 2022-2023 season so I wouldn't use the All Star and All NBA snubs as evidence of anything other than awards voting being a popularity contest that we rarely win. I doubt most voters care about TS% except when it confirms their existing biases. The only reason he got those achievements in 2023 is because we were the 3 seed and the "Light the Beam" ritual and end to the no-playoff streak garnered some additional media exposure that year.

 

[megapoxy]

That's a stat that is related with Fox, but what can't be seen is that it's mostly about DeRozan that had the most 4th quarter points last season among all NBA players in total ("not per game though") and still he is not featured in the list of "most missed field goals" since he was shooting with 51%

About Fox (though that's not "his" thread) it seems normal cause in most of the matches that we were down at the end he was the only one trying without getting much help especially after Monk was injured. Still he wasn't as clutch as the previous season that he won the "clutch" player award so easily.

The statmuse link with the players having the most points in 4th quarter last season, showing also some other stats next to that.-> https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=most+4th+quarter+points+in+2023-24+season

https://twitter.com/statuses/1812570016841417180

 

[sono]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1812398500149403825

 

[SacTownKid]

Another thing about adding DeMar is potentially that will allow Fox to focus more on defense. He won't have to destroy himself at all times on both ends when the games get down to crunch time. He can save that for the playoffs now. It should be easy to figure that a player like him, weighing probably 180 pounds isn't like a player the size of Luka doing the same things. Luka doesn't play any defense first off, but guards are always susceptible to having down stretches during the season as they get more and more banged up especially if they are the only player on your team capable of drawing contact. Moving forward the Kings picked up one player guaranteed to get to the line in DeMar and another in Carter that projects as someone who will be able to do the same. Those two on paper solve so many issues it's crazy.

 

[twslam07]

I really like the idea of having DeRozan mentoring and teaching our young guys.

He’s elite isoing, elite in the midrange, elite at getting to the rim and drawing fouls, and elite at taking care of his body/staying on the floor. Having Fox, Monk, Ellis, Carter, and Murray learn from him over the next 3 years should do wonders for their development. And if we can have one of those guys (not counting Fox) learn and develop enough to become a star player, there is a seamless transition for DeRozan to hand the scoring reigns to one of those guys as he approaches retirement. And at that point, our entire core will be entering their prime/in their prime:

Sabonis = 31 years old
Fox = 29 years old
Monk = 29 years old
Ellis = 27 years old
Murray = 27 years old
Carter = 25 years old

And if that player who develops into a star player/scorer down the road is Murray, there’s a very real possibility that we may have already resigned him to a 2nd contract that is less than the 25% max (since his offensive production/stats will be somewhat blocked by DeRozan over the next 2 years) giving us a bargain contract to help combat the tax aprons.

 

[Jdbraver137]

I really like the idea of having DeRozan mentoring and teaching our young guys.

He’s elite isoing, elite in the midrange, elite at getting to the rim and drawing fouls, and elite at taking care of his body/staying on the floor. Having Fox, Monk, Ellis, Carter, and Murray learn from him over the next 3 years should do wonders for their development. And if we can have one of those guys (not counting Fox) learn and develop enough to become a star player, there is a seamless transition for DeRozan to hand the scoring reigns to one of those guys as he approaches retirement. And at that point, our entire core will be entering their prime/in their prime:

Sabonis = 31 years old
Fox = 29 years old
Monk = 29 years old
Ellis = 27 years old
Murray = 27 years old
Carter = 25 years old

And if that player who develops into a star player/scorer down the road is Murray, there’s a very real possibility that we may have already resigned him to a 2nd contract that is less than the 25% max (since his offensive production/stats will be somewhat blocked by DeRozan over the next 2 years) giving us a bargain contract to help combat the tax aprons.

Whoa, slow down. I think you may be getting ahead of yourself with derozan’s impact. Let’s see how the season starts first.

 

[twslam07]

Whoa, slow down. I think you may be getting ahead of yourself with derozan’s impact. Let’s see how the season starts first.

Why?

 

[Jdbraver137]

Why?

You are making him out to be the messiah and he hasn’t even had a chance to develop relationships yet.

 

[coolhandluke]

 

[coolhandluke]

 

[Jdbraver137]

I think he can work. But we all know how every experience is different.

 

[CVKingsfan]

But we all know...

Ummmm....who gave you the authority to speak on my behalf?

 

[coolhandluke]

DeRozan talking about the midrange game with Iman Shumpert. An older video but still holds good.

 

[twslam07]

You are making him out to be the messiah and he hasn’t even had a chance to develop relationships yet.

I don’t think I ever positioned him as a “messiah.” I think that’s something you made up in your head.

What I did say is that he has a lot of elite and useful scoring skills that our young guys could learn from. And by all reports, DeRozan is loved and respected by his teammates and organizations and there are many reports that say he likes to take the young guys under his wing.

Now am I saying that DeRozan being here guarantees that one of our young guys will become a star? No, but that seems to be something you think I said. All I’m saying is that it’s another benefit of having DeRozan on this team since, by all reports, he seems to be an excellent veteran mentor and leader.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that we can discuss DeRozan’s impact on our young guys without other posters replying in hyperbolic ways.

 

[Jdbraver137]

I don’t think I ever positioned him as a “messiah.” I think that’s something you made up in your head.

What I did say is that he has a lot of elite and useful scoring skills that our young guys could learn from. And by all reports, DeRozan is loved and respected by his teammates and organizations and there are many reports that say he likes to take the young guys under his wing.

Now am I saying that DeRozan being here guarantees that one of our young guys will become a star? No, but that seems to be something you think I said. All I’m saying is that it’s another benefit of having DeRozan on this team since, by all reports, he seems to be an excellent veteran mentor and leader.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that we can discuss DeRozan’s impact on our young guys without other posters replying in hyperbolic ways.

We can discuss it. I just said I disagree to the level of influence that you stated. I think that is reasonable. I mean look at the bulls. How did their young guys grow with him there. Yes, he is a leader, but development is mostly from the coaches and the player himself. IMO vets growing young guys is overrated. Look at the warriors and their same hype for Chris Paul last year. Let derozan just be a player and fit in before burdening him with improving young players.

 

[Jdbraver137]

Ummmm....who gave you the authority to speak on my behalf?

I suppose in a broad sense I did and I’m cool with it. You are the one making it personal. I never even called you out.

 

[twslam07]

We can discuss it. I just said I disagree to the level of influence that you stated. I think that is reasonable. I mean look at the bulls. How did their young guys grow with him there. Yes, he is a leader, but development is mostly from the coaches and the player himself. IMO vets growing young guys is overrated. Look at the warriors and their same hype for Chris Paul last year. Let derozan just be a player and fit in before burdening him with improving young players.

In your reference to the Bulls, they had a guy named Coby White who was the runner up for most improved player of the year (behind Maxey). Now am I saying 100% of the credit goes to DeRozan? Of course not, but it is ironic that you point to the Bulls as an example to back your point only for that roster to have a great example to back my point.

Your point about “burdening” DeRozan with improving young players just shows me you don’t really understand who DeRozan is. It is not a “burden” to DeRozan. He gladly filled that role on his previous teams (even if those teams were not that competitive). That’s the type of person he is.

 

[Jdbraver137]

In your reference to the Bulls, they had a guy named Coby White who was the runner up for most improved player of the year (behind Maxey). Now am I saying 100% of the credit goes to DeRozan? Of course not, but it is ironic that you point to the Bulls as an example to back your point only for that roster to have a great example to back my point.

Your point about “burdening” DeRozan with improving young players just shows me you don’t really understand who DeRozan is. It is not a “burden” to DeRozan. He gladly filled that role on his previous teams (even if those teams were not that competitive). That’s the type of person he is.

First of all, Coby finally got an opportunity because Zach went down. Second, he attributed his improvement to Peter Patton, their shooting coach. Not once did he mention derozan. You get likes here but that doesn’t mean you are correct. Do some research .

 

[funkykingston]

First of all, Coby finally got an opportunity because Zach went down. Second, he attributed his improvement to Peter Patton, their shooting coach. Not once did he mention derozan. You get likes here but that doesn’t mean you are correct. Do some research .

Mod note: Ease up on the snark and personal attacks.

But there are plenty of comments from White about DeRozan's impact. Here he talks about wanting DeMar back in Chicago and mentions that he was important for his growth as a player:

https://www.tiktok.com/@jpoetrib/video/7359965956153560363

 

[sono]

I lost count of how many 20 pts leads we blew last season.
We could point to the bad defense but mostly our offense that ran dry. It was painfully evident that we needed a veteran leadership who could take over the game when that happened, do some damage inside for a short stretch, boosting their confidence so we could regroup. By the way, we were the worst at ISO games, bad in midrange, and bad at drawing fouls last season, yet DeRozan is elite at every one of them. How that would work out remains to be seen., exciting challenges ahead.

 

[funkykingston]

I lost count of how many 20 pts leads we blew last season.
We could point to the bad defense but mostly our offense that ran dry. It was painfully evident that we needed a veteran leadership who could take over the game when that happened, do some damage inside for a short stretch, boosting their confidence so we could regroup. By the way, we were the worst at ISO games, bad in midrange, and bad at drawing fouls last season, yet DeRozan is elite at every one of them. How that would work out remains to be seen., exciting challenges ahead.

Yeah, for all the hand wringing about spacing and DeRozan's lack of three point shooting, this point keeps getting missed - as you noted he fills a number of key gaps for the Kings.

When the Kings needed to make a play late in games and their offensive sets weren't leading to good looks it was pretty much up to Fox or Monk to create something. And when Monk went down it left just Fox. Sabonis mentioned it in the TMZ interview after the trade - now late in games the Kings have three guys who can all go get a bucket in De'Aaron, Malik and DeMar. Good luck stopping all of them.

And DeRozan's ability to draw fouls and hit his free throws it a big key too.

 

[Jdbraver137]

Mod note: Ease up on the snark and personal attacks.

But there are plenty of comments from White about DeRozan's impact. Here he talks about wanting DeMar back in Chicago and mentions that he was important for his growth as a player:

https://www.tiktok.com/@jpoetrib/video/7359965956153560363

That’s after he was asked after derozan became a FA, what is he supposed to say. When he was in the MIP he mentioned coaches.

 

[funkykingston]

That’s after he was asked after derozan became a FA, what is he supposed to say. When he was in the MIP he mentioned coaches.

He could have said nothing about his own growth as it relates to DeMar.

DeMar has stated flat out that he likes mentoring younger players, that he did it in Chicago and is looking forward to doing so in Sacramento. Coby White mentioned (even in passing) that DeRozan was important for his growth as a player.

I figure we take DeRozan at his word until we get evidence to the contrary.

From NBCSports:
DeRozan cherishes mentoring Fox, other young Kings players

 

[ESP47]

First of all, Coby finally got an opportunity because Zach went down. Second, he attributed his improvement to Peter Patton, their shooting coach. Not once did he mention derozan. You get likes here but that doesn’t mean you are correct. Do some research .

I think you need a KF.com vet to take you under their wing and mentor you on how to discuss basketball without arguing and being snarky with people. You're the young rookie with a lot of talent but you really need the DeRozan of this forum to sit you down and teach you how to act like a professional.

I'm more like the Tony Snell vet on this forum but here's how I would have responded.

"It looked to me like Coby got his opportunity when Zach went down. I read that he attributed his improvement to Peter Patton, their shooting coach. I didn't see him mention DeRozan but who knows, maybe he has an impact behind the scenes that wasn't talked about. I personally don't think that vet coaching has much of an impact but to each their own."

 

[coolhandluke]

By the way, we were the worst at ISO games, bad in midrange, and bad at drawing fouls last season, yet DeRozan is elite at every one of them. How that would work out remains to be seen., exciting challenges ahead.

DeRozan is not going to suddenly stop being elite in these areas. IMO the challenge is only for the other team trying to stop both DeRozan and Fox. Good luck with that.

 

[Pacboy]

Honestly, we brought so many veterans for mentoring over the crappy years and they contributed very little outside of good locker room presence. Vince Carter, Caron Butler, Zach Randolph. It’s possible that those guys were on their last leg and DDR is still putting up numbers that it may carries more weight but at this point I’m more excited at the prospect of adding DDR as the “talent” and if he mentors the young guy then that’s just icing on the cake.

 

[funkykingston]

Honestly, we brought so many veterans for mentoring over the crappy years and they contributed very little outside of good locker room presence. Vince Carter, Caron Butler, Zach Randolph. It’s possible that those guys were on their last leg and DDR is still putting up numbers that it may carries more weight but at this point I’m more excited at the prospect of adding DDR as the “talent” and if he mentors the young guy then that’s just icing on the cake.

Definitely. I mean there's a clear difference between bringing in a 40 year old Vince Carter on a one year contract to come off the bench and trading for a 34 year old DeMar DeRozan (who was an all-star as recently as 2023) to be a starter.

The front office is clearly counting on him to be a difference maker as a player first.

 

[sono]

DeRozan is not going to suddenly stop being elite in these areas. IMO the challenge is only for the other team trying to stop both DeRozan and Fox. Good luck with that.

I was referring to spacing and his lack of 3 pts shooting. I keep reading DeRozan never had so many shooters/spacers around him. For him, who used to operate in tight spaces it could be a dance floor. He could wreak even more havoc inside and create open looks for the rest. He's not a bad playmaker either.