King Deebo

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ESP47

All-Star
#31
#31
I'd like to see more games first. The eye test told me the Kings looked really bad the first two games, yet they played last years WCF team and one of the hottest teams to start the year to very close losses. They then beat up on two teams they should beat up on. A shot or two goes this way or that way in the first two games and they're 4-0 or 3-1. I'd like to give it a good 20 games or so to see if any upgrades are needed.

So far it's not the starters that look bad to me. Lyles and Len have looked pretty bad but outside of that most of our players look pretty good or just look like they're underachieving a bit based on a small sample size. Fox and Keegan will play better. Huerter will drop a bit. Domas' scoring may drop and Lyles and Len should return back to average backups.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#32
#32
ESP47 said:
I'd like to see more games first. The eye test told me the Kings looked really bad the first two games, yet they played last years WCF team and one of the hottest teams to start the year to very close losses. They then beat up on two teams they should beat up on. A shot or two goes this way or that way in the first two games and they're 4-0 or 3-1. I'd like to give it a good 20 games or so to see if any upgrades are needed.

So far it's not the starters that look bad to me. Lyles and Len have looked pretty bad but outside of that most of our players look pretty good or just look like they're underachieving a bit based on a small sample size. Fox and Keegan will play better. Huerter will drop a bit. Domas' scoring may drop and Lyles and Len should return back to average backups.
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yeh I think that’s where most of us are, wait and see. The real ceiling raiser here could be if Domas is this offensively aggressive all year. Dude has a wing handle, is 6’10 and stronger than 90 percent of the league. If adding another facilitator unlocks a score first mentality that’s a total game changer
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#33
#33
iowamcnabb said:
yeh I think that’s where most of us are, wait and see. The real ceiling raiser here could be if Domas is this offensively aggressive all year. Dude has a wing handle, is 6’10 and stronger than 90 percent of the league. If adding another facilitator unlocks a score first mentality that’s a total game changer
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The fact that he’s gotten a lot quicker to pull the trigger from beyond the arc is a game changer for him.
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#34
#34
ESP47 said:
I'd like to see more games first. The eye test told me the Kings looked really bad the first two games, yet they played last years WCF team and one of the hottest teams to start the year to very close losses. They then beat up on two teams they should beat up on. A shot or two goes this way or that way in the first two games and they're 4-0 or 3-1. I'd like to give it a good 20 games or so to see if any upgrades are needed.

So far it's not the starters that look bad to me. Lyles and Len have looked pretty bad but outside of that most of our players look pretty good or just look like they're underachieving a bit based on a small sample size. Fox and Keegan will play better. Huerter will drop a bit. Domas' scoring may drop and Lyles and Len should return back to average backups.
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Assuming all that happens, what do think this current roster's chances are of making a deep playoff run?
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#35
#35
ShastaKingsFan said:
Assuming all that happens, what do think this current roster's chances are of making a deep playoff run?
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We're significantly trailing OKC, but after them? I think talent wise, I'd put our top 7 pretty damn close to anyone in the West if 22/23 Huerter is here to stay for the season. It's like acquiring a whole new player with him healthy.

Beating up the bad teams is hopefully a good step forward for us this season. Remember, we were 17-10 vs the top 7 West seeds last season; we just got utterly smoked by NOP/HOU and a few other randomly awful losses scattered throughout the season. I think we already showed this year that teams like Minny and LAL, 2 expected playoff teams and in Minny's case, one of the title contenders, that we can compete with top competition. I think we were the better team in both games tbh; just didn't execute properly down the stretch vs Minny and Bron decided to have a supernova moment vs us.

And again, we're operating with small samples here; this very well may change over the next 10+ games, but DDR is showing to be a perfect fit on this offense. He's unselfish as a playmaker so he's never actively stopping the ball/offense, but he also has shown a great understanding of when to go to work in the mid-range and get a bucket. Him in that first half vs POR is a perfect example of how he changes this team; that exact game in the previous 2 seasons would have seen us down 10 at half. But him drawing fouls, slowing down their tempo, stopping their momentum; it's damn good stuff.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#36
#36
ShastaKingsFan said:
Assuming all that happens, what do think this current roster's chances are of making a deep playoff run?
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It's really difficult to say. I mean we added one of the best scorers in the NBA and he replaced an inconsistent vet whose defense really declined last year. I would think we would at least be a 5th or 6th place team team if everyone played to their normal levels.

It's just too early. I wouldn't be surprised if we got bounced in the play in again and I wouldn't be surprised if we made it to the 2nd round. Just need more time to see what this team is capable of.

Also depends on the matchup. The Pelicans pushed our you know what in last year but we fared really well against a superior team in OKC.

I just don't know if swapping a 2022/23 level Huerter for a 4 would do anything to improve the team. Even if it was a Bobby Portis. I don't think there is anyone we could trade our untradeable guys for that would take us from a play in ish team to a deep playoff run team.
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#37
#37
The_Jamal said:
We're significantly trailing OKC, but after them? I think talent wise, I'd put our top 7 pretty damn close to anyone in the West if 22/23 Huerter is here to stay for the season. It's like acquiring a whole new player with him healthy.

Beating up the bad teams is hopefully a good step forward for us this season. Remember, we were 17-10 vs the top 7 West seeds last season; we just got utterly smoked by NOP/HOU and a few other randomly awful losses scattered throughout the season. I think we already showed this year that teams like Minny and LAL, 2 expected playoff teams and in Minny's case, one of the title contenders, that we can compete with top competition. I think we were the better team in both games tbh; just didn't execute properly down the stretch vs Minny and Bron decided to have a supernova moment vs us.

And again, we're operating with small samples here; this very well may change over the next 10+ games, but DDR is showing to be a perfect fit on this offense. He's unselfish as a playmaker so he's never actively stopping the ball/offense, but he also has shown a great understanding of when to go to work in the mid-range and get a bucket. Him in that first half vs POR is a perfect example of how he changes this team; that exact game in the previous 2 seasons would have seen us down 10 at half. But him drawing fouls, slowing down their tempo, stopping their momentum; it's damn good stuff.
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When the Kings announced Huerter as available for trade, do you think they assumed that he was already on the downswing of his career and would never get back to his prime level?
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#38
#38
ShastaKingsFan said:
When the Kings announced Huerter as available for trade, do you think they assumed that he was already on the downswing of his career and would never get back to his prime level?
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Who knows? A lot of assumption in there and we have no idea how seriously they were actually shopping him. He was struggling and I think we were probably star hunting with his and HB's contract. I doubt we were "done" with him, otherwise we would have found a way to dump him at the deadline or the off-season. And obviously Brown has shown tremendous faith by keeping his starter role and he's rewarded that with his play thus far this season.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#39
#39
The_Jamal said:
Who knows? A lot of assumption in there and we have no idea how seriously they were actually shopping him. He was struggling and I think we were probably star hunting with his and HB's contract. I doubt we were "done" with him, otherwise we would have found a way to dump him at the deadline or the off-season. And obviously Brown has shown tremendous faith by keeping his starter role and he's rewarded that with his play thus far this season.
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We'll see, but with historical perspective this kind of does look like value rebuilding. Knowing how Brown operates though complicates things. In the end this is a process Monte has to see a legit sample size of. What happens when more teams starting attacking the Kings lack of athletic ability? So far, a few times Brown has immediately sat Huerter once the opposing side starting to really attack him off the dribble or in pick and roll. That's when Keon came in. Time will reveal all.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#40
#40
SacTownKid said:
We'll see, but with historical perspective this kind of does look like value rebuilding. Knowing how Brown operates though complicates things. In the end this is a process Monte has to see a legit sample size of. What happens when more teams starting attacking the Kings lack of athletic ability? So far, a few times Brown has immediately sat Huerter once the opposing side starting to really attack him off the dribble or in pick and roll. That's when Keon came in. Time will reveal all.
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That's where the versatility comes in. I hope we see more Huerter at the 3 in the coming weeks and what the lineups looks like with him+Keon/Monk look like etc. That's where the long-term fit with everyone comes in: If we can rotate Fox/Monk/Keon/Carter freely at the 1-2 and Huerter works with them at the 3... Jenga!

Like I would have gladly flipped Huerter+ 1 FRP for Cam Johnson this off-season. I'm going to be a bit results-oriented here for a second, but I would not take that deal now with Huerter looking like he's rounding into form. And of course, Cam is a wing, but does he raise our team ceiling by just virtue of being 6'8? How much does punting 2+ years of Huerter playing with Fox/Domas and crew and that chemistry matter?
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#41
#41
The_Jamal said:
That's where the versatility comes in. I hope we see more Huerter at the 3 in the coming weeks and what the lineups looks like with him+Keon/Monk look like etc. That's where the long-term fit with everyone comes in: If we can rotate Fox/Monk/Keon/Carter freely at the 1-2 and Huerter works with them at the 3... Jenga!
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It might work in the regular season, but does it really work in multiple playoff series. That is the question that really matters going forward
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#42
#42
ShastaKingsFan said:
It might work in the regular season, but does it really work in multiple playoff series. That is the question that really matters going forward
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Mid-range iso ball with shooters has been the general formula for ships since, sayyyyyyyy, the implementation of the three point line. The Kings now have two of the best middy ball handlers in the league and an All-NBA big who’s been All-NBA for actually playing like a classic big man.

There’s only one way to find out how far it’ll take us but getting to the postseason in the first place would certainly help.
 
T

Tizzy Flip

Bench
#43
#43
Are there still concerns on this board about DDR’s (negative) impact to offensive spacing, or too early to tell?

There were some takes this summer about how he would actually be a downgrade vs. Barnes when it came to spacing the floor!?! Which imo is a ridiculous take when you have such a dangerous scorer
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#44
#44
Tizzy Flip said:
Are there still concerns on this board about DDR’s (negative) impact to offensive spacing, or too early to tell?

There were some takes this summer about how he would actually be a downgrade vs. Barnes when it came to spacing the floor!?! Which imo is a ridiculous take when you have such a dangerous scorer
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"Spacing the floor" has become an overused buzz phrase.

DeRozan fills up the hoop from all angles and this team is better with him on it. He is on another level from Barnes and anyone else who just stands behind the 3 point line 95% of the time.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#45
#45
Tizzy Flip said:
Are there still concerns on this board about DDR’s (negative) impact to offensive spacing, or too early to tell?

There were some takes this summer about how he would actually be a downgrade vs. Barnes when it came to spacing the floor!?! Which imo is a ridiculous take when you have such a dangerous scorer
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The real test is when teams really commit to a zone. The Jazz ran it some but so far it didn't really bother Sac much.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#46
#46
SacTownKid said:
The real test is when teams really commit to a zone. The Jazz ran it some but so far it didn't really bother Sac much.
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We are also really good at cutting and passing quickly when we need to. The zone works less effectively when you run non-traditional offense, such as when we have Domas at the top of the key doing dribble handoffs. Most teams don’t possess the ability to be able to run an offense like that. Should teams move to a 3-2 zone, you have two elite guards that can attack the rim and live in the midrange. As long as Huerter and Keegan hit a high clip and Fox is respectable, our offense is extremely capable. We struggle with big teams the most, that’s our Achilles heel.
 
TaxMan

TaxMan

Starter
#48
#48
ShastaKingsFan said:
When the Kings announced Huerter as available for trade, do you think they assumed that he was already on the downswing of his career and would never get back to his prime level?
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I understand we're talking semantics here, but the team never announced Huerter was available for a trade. Of course things you see in the media are usually leaked from the team to reporters, but I would think it's hard to tell what's simply speculation (i.e. Fox, Domas and Keegan are off limits in a trade, so everyone else is fair game) vs. we are actively shopping Kevin Huerter. I have a hard time believing by trade deadline last year they had already thrown in the towel on the career of a 26 year old shooting guard. He was highly erratic and inconsistent last year, but he still finished the year shooting only a couple ticks down from his career 3 point percentage.
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#49
#49
TaxMan said:
I understand we're talking semantics here, but the team never announced Huerter was available for a trade. Of course things you see in the media are usually leaked from the team to reporters, but I would think it's hard to tell what's simply speculation (i.e. Fox, Domas and Keegan are off limits in a trade, so everyone else is fair game) vs. we are actively shopping Kevin Huerter. I have a hard time believing by trade deadline last year they had already thrown in the towel on the career of a 26 year old shooting guard. He was highly erratic and inconsistent last year, but he still finished the year shooting only a couple ticks down from his career 3 point percentage.
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Did they announce Barnes and Mitchell as available for trade?
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#50
#50
ShastaKingsFan said:
Did they announce Barnes and Mitchell as available for trade?
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Monte has said, I believe more than once, that everybody is on the table. But I don't recall the team ever specifically saying any single player was on the block.

We - and the media - were obviously able to identify possible trade fits with secondary players like Mitchell or Barnes or Huerter or Sasha, etc. But there's a difference between acknowledging that a particular player is obviously the preferred guy to be sent out in a deal and saying that the franchise has announced that a particular player is available for trade. The former is "everybody can see it". The latter, I don't think ever happened, not for Huerter, not for Barnes, not for Mitchell, not for Sasha...
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#51
#51
Capt. Factorial said:
Monte has said, I believe more than once, that everybody is on the table. But I don't recall the team ever specifically saying any single player was on the block.

We - and the media - were obviously able to identify possible trade fits with secondary players like Mitchell or Barnes or Huerter or Sasha, etc. But there's a difference between acknowledging that a particular player is obviously the preferred guy to be sent out in a deal and saying that the franchise has announced that a particular player is available for trade. The former is "everybody can see it". The latter, I don't think ever happened, not for Huerter, not for Barnes, not for Mitchell, not for Sasha...
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Of course they wouldn't make an official release from the organization, but I recall a leak to reliable enough sources that it was talked about in the media as a given, that Barnes, Mitchell, and Huerter were available going into the dead-line.

I know we had discussions here about it at the time. Those 3 names, nobody else was mentioned.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#52
#52
TaxMan said:
I understand we're talking semantics here, but the team never announced Huerter was available for a trade. Of course things you see in the media are usually leaked from the team to reporters, but I would think it's hard to tell what's simply speculation (i.e. Fox, Domas and Keegan are off limits in a trade, so everyone else is fair game) vs. we are actively shopping Kevin Huerter. I have a hard time believing by trade deadline last year they had already thrown in the towel on the career of a 26 year old shooting guard. He was highly erratic and inconsistent last year, but he still finished the year shooting only a couple ticks down from his career 3 point percentage.
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The max amount of smoke you can have for any potential trade piece was choking Huerter for almost all last season and all summer. The Kings were talking and all accounts suggest Huerter was discussed a ton. It is what it is.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#55
#55
Tetsujin said:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1852530561421824021
“that fit won’t work” -brought to you by the same people who said Domas-Tyrese was the worst trade in NBA history and laughed at the Kings for picking Keegan
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So nice to have a legitimate 20 ppg player to take the pressure off Fox every night. The Kings will be hard to stop if Keegan can regain his 3 pt shooting touch
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#56
#56
ockingsfan said:
So nice to have a legitimate 20 ppg player to take the pressure off Fox every night. The Kings will be hard to stop if Keegan can regain his 3 pt shooting touch
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It also frees up Sabonis to be more opportunistic with his scoring. If the advantage is there, he can exploit it. Otherwise he can focus on playmaking and rebounding and not feel like he has to score, which isn't really his forte.
 
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