Kevin Martin Sweepstakes

You don't have to convince me - I think I probably still take the risk if it is there. I just doubt Petrie does. However, I don't think hope is lost if we try in the summer. If he wants to leave, it will be a sign and trade this Summer IMO. And we are well positioned for that.
Geoff has shown himself to be less risk averse in those situations than he has sometimes been given credit for. Think Webber, who's departure would have obviously destroyed us, and yet whom Geoff was willing to take right up to the brink, stare him in the eyes, and dare him to blink. And with Bosh, the risk there is somewhat less than it appears. I mean, obviously before you consummate the trade, he's obviously asked Bosh and the agent whether they are committed to running off to New York or whatever. If that answer turns out to be a negative then you have both sides auditioning, but with all the young talent we've accumulated, a laid back coach, a lethal Bosh/Reke pairing, things are going to be lookign pretty good by the time free agency hits and we can offer him $30mil more than any other team. There is a risk. But there should be a lot of things trending toward retention.

The other issue is of course Toronto and us being at cross purposes -- they want Kevin to compelte the All No-Defense All Stars to convince Bosh to stay, we want Bosh in exchange. Does not mean they won't do it though if they are getting indications from the Bosh camp that he is leaving -- and yes, that conversation will be had before the deadline. At that point Keivn, a legitimate scoring star to keep the offense uptempoed, adn one of our young bigs to give them the illusion of getting a young player wiht potential to replace Bosh, becomes a viable option.

As for the other veteran teams said to be interested, hard to see us doing any of that. But a three way involving one of those teams is always possible.
 
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And let the circus begin. Martin could be back Friday and the vultures are already circling. I'd really like to see how Martin and Evans play together. It is very possible they can't co-exist but I don't think it is out of the question that they could one of the top guard duos in the league. Now with that said if a market REALLY heats up for him and we can get a deal for our coveted Big or a deal we can't refuse then more power to Petrie for trading.

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2457910.html

Executives around the league will be watching closely, with many teams hoping to land Martin by the February trade deadline should the Kings make him available.
League sources indicate Houston, Toronto, Cleveland, Phoenix and Dallas are among those keeping watch.
The Kings, who are believed to be looking for a significant frontcourt addition, have given no indication they intend to move Martin.

Of those teams listed above.....

Houston I would take nobody other than Scola (and picks), Don't want an Aaron Brooks. Probably wouldn't even do the Scola trade...

Toronto... Bosh... Would have done Calderon but I don't think I would do this for anyone other than Bosh now.

Cleveland... You probably could make an argument for Anderson Varejao, but I don't think it would be enough. Maybe Mo Williams, and Anderson Varejao for Martin, and Beno.

Phoenix.... Amare, and I don't even know if I would still do this trade even if I could.

Dallas.... Nothing I really want... I guess we could take Gooden back, and grab Dampier.. :D j/k
 
I don't know. I think we may be overvaluing Kmart a little. He's a stud scorer but is generally known as one of the league's worst defenders, is injury prone, slightly one-dimensional and has a long term deal. Bosh is one of the most sought after players in the league. Jefferson is a little closer but you're hearing names like Granger thrown in there who I think is a much more valued commodity than Kmart.


Indiana turned down the Jefferson for Granger deal meaning that Minnesota will likely have to take less. Martin is probably one notch below Granger at this point, so I'd have to think they'd at least consider it. In regard to Martin's long term deal, it's pretty reasonable for a 25 point per game scorer.
 
Indiana turned down the Jefferson for Granger deal meaning that Minnesota will likely have to take less. Martin is probably one notch below Granger at this point, so I'd have to think they'd at least consider it. In regard to Martin's long term deal, it's pretty reasonable for a 25 point per game scorer.


Who knows.. Maybe that's why they got Armstrong... Minnesota wanted another player who could play C who has NBA experience as a starter and that is relatively young. So the whole Armstrong thing was to toss him in with Martin to get a big, and not leave the team we are trading with out in the cold in regards to big men... Although Armstrong would leave them in the cold because he sucks so I dunno..
 
I don't see the Kings giving up on a Kevin/Tyreke combo by the Feb trade deadline... there is way too much potential to win games there.

I agree with you on that....but do you think there wold be more potential with Tyreke/Bosh or Tyreke/Martin?
 
If we do end up making one of these big trades for a big name player... its going to be wierd for me to see players like Hawes, Thompson, Kevin, or whoever gets traded, on another team. I really hope we can do something without giving up one of those players. Probably not likely though.
 
A Tyreke/Bosh combo is pretty much a ticket to deep playoff contention, as early as next year maby. Not to mention we still have players like Hawes, Thompson, Udrih, Garcia, Casspi, and Greene... along with Brockman (the necessary "energy guy"). It makes me salivate just thinking about it.
 
The Raptors are contenders???? They barely have a better record than we do, and think of what Bosh could do on a team with a dominant PG like Evans.

Last year Calderon was pretty good and they still sucked. So why arent they a better team? If Bosh was really a stud they should at least be a .500 team especially in the east.
 
you'd hope, but there would be a question there. Did we just give up Martin and Hawes for nothing if Bosh decides just to sign outright with someone with the cap space? That would be a nightmare for the franchise.

Ok, consider that as the worst case scenario. Even in that scenario our salary commitments are down to 27M...We'd have 26M left for the market.

We could sign a lower level player, and still have cash left for the center rich market of 2011. And having cap space next year will be major, because there will be even more teams who will be fighting the luxury tax bill because of the lower cap. It will be a huge leverage point.

So, it would still be a gamble lost, but the reward is incredible, and the risk really isn't that bad.
 
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Last year Calderon was pretty good and they still sucked. So why arent they a better team? If Bosh was really a stud they should at least be a .500 team especially in the east.

Its a poorly constructed team. People were saying the same thing about Pau Gasol two years ago, but trade him to a team with talent and a system and all of a sudden he's one of the top 10 players in the NBA.
 
Last year Calderon was pretty good and they still sucked. So why arent they a better team? If Bosh was really a stud they should at least be a .500 team especially in the east.

That's where the whole "chemistry" thing comes into play.. If it works then you can have a winning team for years.. If not then we wouldn't have to keep him on next year, but we lost a big trade piece.
 
The Raptors are contenders???? They barely have a better record than we do, and think of what Bosh could do on a team with a dominant PG like Evans. He would be sick. Plus Bargnani is a soft player and more of a PF, he and Bosh don't fit together that well. If they could actually get a scoring SG for a cheap salary for the next few years it'd make sense. They don't have a good SG. Make their line up more balanced.


If the season ends today, the Raptors are the #6 seed and we are in the lottery. So of course the Raptors are much more of a contender than we are. Even with Bosh there is no given we make the top six seed. The west is just this tough.

So the point remains: why would Bosh leaves a team that currently is the #6 seed but to sign with a team that is currently in the lottery. Unless the Kings somehow propel up to the same level as the Lakers/Celtics/Cavs with Bosh, a scenario that I don't see happening. Not with Bosh. With Lebron probably but not Bosh.

If Bosh wants to win, he should stay in the East. If he should come to the west, it makes sense only if he joins an established team like the Lakers/Spurs/etc.
 
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I think you wait til summer, see if Bosh wants to bite on any cap space we might have. We have some, so we wouldn't HAVE to trade Kevin. Now with a guy like Bosh, you can never sign him outright, but maybe we can turn Noce + 1st rounder + capspace into sign and trade material for Bosh.
 
I think you wait til summer, see if Bosh wants to bite on any cap space we might have. We have some, so we wouldn't HAVE to trade Kevin. Now with a guy like Bosh, you can never sign him outright, but maybe we can turn Noce + 1st rounder + capspace into sign and trade material for Bosh.

There's no way Bosh comes here as a free agent with all the options out there. The only way we get Bosh is if we trade for him and then somehow win him over during his time here and his bird rights.
 
League sources indicate Houston, Toronto, Cleveland, Phoenix and Dallas are among those keeping watch.


Houston

want to pair him with Yao -- probably offer Tmac's expiring + Landry

Toronto


want to pair him with Bosh -- probably offer Caldrone + picks or prospects(DeRozan , Bellineli) because the teams actually played as good if not better with Jack at the point while Jose's been out..

Cleveland

all they have to offer is Z's expiring + JJ Hickson + picks, HOWEVER they can TAKE ON SALARY(Nocioni,Beno, etc)

Phoenix

Frye is their starting center, they really have nothing that we can use and will prolly try to make a deal around Richardson, Barbosa, or Dudley

Dallas

Eric Dampiers expiring + prospects or picks or Josh Howard + prospects or picks


I know were all thinking Bosh and Stoudemire, but IMO this is most likely what those teams will initially offer...


The problem is that we won't get equal value in return for Martin, we I just hope that he works well with Reke... but we need time to see...
 
If the season ends today, the Raptors are the #6 seed and we are in the lottery. So of course the Raptors are much more of a contender than we are. Even with Bosh there is no given we make the top six seed. The west is just this tough.

So the point remains: why would Bosh leaves a team that currently is the #6 seed but to sign with a team that is currently in the lottery. Unless the Kings somehow propel up to the same level as the Lakers/Celtics/Cavs with Bosh, a scenario that I don't see happening. Not with Bosh. With Lebron probably but not Bosh.

If Bosh wants to win, he should stay in the East. If he should come to the west, it makes sense only if he joins an established team like the Lakers/Spurs/etc.
Being in the eastern conference doesn't make you any more a contender, it just makes you a more likely playoff fodder hopeful.
 
Being in the eastern conference doesn't make you any more a contender, it just makes you a more likely playoff fodder hopeful.


Not true at all. Last year, the Celtics almost lost the series to a team that was barely .500. There is no such thing as a fodder in the Eastern playoff - Eastern teams, even top teams, lack the consistency in dominance that the top Western teams have. If you can squeak into the post season in the East you have a chance.

Could the Raptors beat say, the Hawks or the Magic in a series. Sure, possible. It wouldn't surprise me if the Raptors make it all the way to the conference final. But in the west, there is no way a #6 seed upset its way deep into the postseason. Just no way.

So it is in the West where you get the fodders. In the East, anything can happen.
 
Regardless of any team that makes the playoffs being fringe contenders where anything could happen, the Raptors are not built for a long playoff run and they certainly aren't built to win a championship. By that measure any team in the league is a contender just because it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility no matter how unlikely it might actually happen.

All that said, adding Bosh to this roster would be a major upgrade in an area where we have a clear lack of depth to begin with. It may not propel us to the finals but it would surely immediately vault us into 50+ win territory given a full season. That is better than the Raptors can expect.
 
There's no way Bosh comes here as a free agent with all the options out there. The only way we get Bosh is if we trade for him and then somehow win him over during his time here and his bird rights.


well we would have one more option this summer that the raptors wont, we can sign and trade bosh without the fans burning down the stadium. if he is nothing more than a rental why not flip him for someone else? i dont know who but there will be players who arent sure of where to sign or the money might dry up early... we couldnt get okafor this year but he could be had this offseason if bosh doesnt want to be here next year. id rather keep bosh, but there isnt any guarantee that he will want to stay here.
 
Toronto won't trade at the deadline unless they get blown out of the water with an offer which is unlikely considering Bosh's contract status. I could see a Martin/Thompson for a signed Bosh trade in the offseason. Who could match that talent in an offer to the Raptors?
 
Toronto won't trade at the deadline unless they get blown out of the water with an offer which is unlikely considering Bosh's contract status. I could see a Martin/Thompson for a signed Bosh trade in the offseason. Who could match that talent in an offer to the Raptors?


When is the last time you have seen a sign and trade of that magnitude in the NBA? You haven't, and here's why:

1) the team with the superstar doesn't want to let him go, and in general is not about to facilitate it. They know that its a $30mil difference to Bosh between being signed and traded and just signign with somebody outright, so they call his bluff. You want to go to x, its going to cost you $30 mil. Or you can come home, earn the big paycheck, and we'll work on the rest later.

2) the player trying to switch teams is presumably doing so because he wants to win. He is not eager to see the team he is going to be gutted in order to get him there.

3) the team trying to get the player normally has delusions of grandeur and wants to add said player to what they already have, not tear up the roster to get him.

In any case, bottomline sign and trades are never equal swaps. And its not as if the original team (in this case the Raptors) gets to shop around for a eal it likes wiht any team. Bosh will call the shots, and the only way there is ever a sign and trade discussion with any team is if Bosh has already decided to sign with them. Thus you have to have Bosh intentionally decide to sign with us over New York, New Jersey, Miami, Cleveland etc. before we even make proposals to the Cavs.
 
Hello everyone, I've been reading this board for a while, and this is my first post. I'm a big Kings fan since 2000, when I lived close to Sacramento and I felt in love with the Kings. I just wanted to say hi to all the Kings fan on this board.

Back to topic, I just took a look to some of the boards of the other teams involved in the Martin's rumors, and I was shocked. Does anyone out there think that the Kings are complitely dumb?!? These are some of the trade idea they have, I just wanted to post them here for fun...

Toronto board:

Straight Martin / Turkoglu (even if I love Hedo, Kevin is a lot younger and a better player)

Calderon / Nesterovic / Wright for Martin

Calderon / KT to Philly, Martin, Holiday, Nocioni, Jason Smith to Toronto, Brand, Wright, Rasho, Banks to Sacramento (I don't even need to comment...)

Phoenix board

JRich + filler for Martin (yes, we really should trade a Sg for an older and worse SG...)

Cavs board

Hickson / Gibson / Wally for Martin

But this is my favourite...
Martin and Jamison to Cleveland / Ilgauskas, Gibson, Hickson to Washington / Wally and Blatche to Sacramento.
( The guy who suggested this trade is a genious... Martin for Blatche, do it right now Petrie!!!)

There are a lot more like those... And it's even funnier to see how they try to find some reasons why the Kings would make those trades...
 
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