Kevin Love To Kings?

[hrdboild]

i think the front office is waiting for a "consistent train of thought" to reveal itself to them. that is, i think they're being opportunistic now so that the path forward is made clearer by virtue of what pieces remain when the dust settles from whatever talent upgrades they've managed to achieve. for example, cousins/gay/thomas necessitates a particular "train of thought" about where to go next in building the roster. likewise, cousins/love/gay/thomas or cousins/love/gay or cousins/love/thomas each necessitate a different "train of thought" about where to go next...

if the kings somehow manage to land kevin love, then they have to craft an extremely urgent plan for building a winner as quickly as possible if they are to have any hope of re-signing love next year. but if the kings whiff on the kevin love sweepstakes, then they can be a bit more patient and a bit more deliberate, as they convene on how to proceed with their draft, and whether they intend to keep or trade their pick, as well as how to proceed with rudy gay and isaiah thomas, and whether either or both are to be considered primary cogs going forward...

there's also the possibility that broadcasting what can be had in a potential trade for kevin love is simply an announcement to all front offices around the league that the kings are prepared to deal all available assets outside of demarcus cousins in advance of the draft. it's an aggressive "strategy," but as most suspect, it's unlikely that the package the kings could put together in a trade for kevin love would be enough to seal the deal. however, that package may very well net a different talent via trade, potentially one whose contract status isn't quite as precarious as love's. it could be a rather shrewd move; the kings have set the market price for kevin love, and while many teams are distracted with putting together competing packages for love, the kings can position themselves to deal for a more realistic and viable target...

honestly, there are just too many balls up in the air right now, too many hypotheticals to consider, and too much speculation for the kings' front office to own a "consistent train of thought," because demarcus cousins is literally the only core component in place (among player personnel, that is). all of that said, i agree wholeheartedly with you in that i don't think this is the best way to build a team. after assuming control of the kings, the new regime got steps one and two right: they brought in a coach who stood a chance to get through to demarcus cousins, and then they signed big cuz to a max extension. after that, i've been impressed with their aggression, but not so much with their results, as they've adopted a "wherever the seas of change will take us" kind of attitude to reconstructing the roster around cousins...

All good points... I'm sure there's a lot of posturing involved. I do think all of our assets (aside from Cousins) should be in play for the right target. Because finding two star players who compliment each other is the hardest part about building any winning team, and it makes future moves a lot easier to figure out. It would have been nice if the draft lottery did all the hard work for us, but we can't all be Cleveland. Your last paragraph hit it on the head for me. I'm happy our front office is actively working to improve the team in any way they can. In the future I'd like to see them focus in on what kind of team they want to have and use that same level of aggression to pursue not just talent but talent which plays well together.

 

[pshn80]

I'm not opposed to trading the pick, but I don't think Love is the right target for us. If we can get Love for Thompson, Outlaw, Terry, and #8 that's completely different. We're still giving up one significant asset for a year of Love with no guarantees, but at that point it's worth the trade-off. It makes this year interesting while we wait for cap space to build with. But I think there's already too many teams in the mix for that kind of a deal to land him.

My main criticism isn't that the front office is making some kind of move (or at least announcing their intention to). It's that I don't see one consistent train of thought which connects all of our front office's moves. I don't think you build a team that way. While we can get marginally better simply by upgrading our talent level, eventually these pieces do have to fit together and play as a team. Rudy Gay is a talented player, but I don't know that he's an ideal fit for this team and I feel the same way about Love. You want to give him to me for free, that's one thing. You want me to give you every 21 and 22 year old I have and that question mark about fit now has significant implications for the future of the team.

There are people who think a #8 pick is worthless and should be thrown into any trade which will get us a moderately effective player so we can stop waiting and get better now. Don't listen to these people. We might not get an All-Star with our pick this year, but a good scouting crew can come up with a solid starter. The fanbase wants the team to win. I don't think the majority of us are naive enough to think that a short-term payoff trumps long-term development. If the possibility of failure (Love leaves or isn't a good match) exceeds the possibility of success (Love stays and thrives next to Cousins) I think it's a bad deal. And if you throw all of your future assets into the bargain, it becomes that much harder to convince Love to stay.

PS - On the Bynum thing, I didn't want him either because his attitude was obviously already a problem and he was injured. But he was just 25, a starter that year on the All-Star team, and second team All-NBA. Now it looks like a disaster of course, but Philadelphia wasn't panned at the time. Some people even praised them for making a bold move to nab a franchise center. We wouldn't be openly panned for nabbing an MVP runner up like Love, but as I pointed out, there are concerns here as well. Questionable fit, no guarantee of re-signing. There's a chance it turns out equally bad for us if the players we give up turn into solid players and Love chooses another city to call home.

Well, you've said a lot and
I will generally disagree with you. One of our young talents is an immediate problem for the team and me. It would be a big mistake to start Ben next season. We need a good starting SG as a first priority because if we don't then we have start Ben. Big mistake! Secondly, we are ill advised to draft at 8 unless we are doing it to get a decent backup.
The last thing we need is another rookie to bring along over some years. We need a good vet to start and rely on now.
For me, building for the future is fine and the future is NOw. That's where Vanadive is, ditto PDA, ditto Malone, ditto me, ditto Cuz, ditto the fans - so it's the way to go now.

 

[King Baller]

I think it is good for the Kings Front Office to be in all of the trade discussions. I mean if a Team wants a 1st, the Kings have number eight. If they want a Veteran Big, the Kings have JT, Reggie, Landry and Acy. Maybe someone really likes IT and is willing to do a sign and trade and send the Kings an asset. Perhaps a GM see's Potential in Ben McLemore.

Many of the Teams that want Love will need to send players out. So the Kings might end up facilitating the trade as the third team.

One key point in this Love story is that perhaps Love will not guaranty signing a contract renewal with ANY team. That way he can leave like Howard did to the Lakers. If that is the case then the Kings may be one of the few teams willing to risk losing assets for one year of Love. It is a big risk to take, Love may just walk away.

 

[The Hammer]

The whole point of Vivek's NBA 3.0 or whatever is that "markets" are no longer limited to their geographical area. The whole reason players want a "big market" is because it means more in endorsement deals, and you also have an owner who will likely spend more on salaries, meaning your own, but also giving a better chance to win.

Kings win on both accounts.

1. Vivek will spend.

2. Vivek and his team will usher in the global marketing of the Kings, creating a huge fan base in India. Those who sign on with the Kings, and if they are on board with the plan, will be come international stars in the next 5-10 years. That's what this is about. I'm not guaranteeing they can sell Love on this idea, but this IS the idea, and it will be happening.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i'd feel more comfortable with daryl morey trying to make some moves. you can actually see a formulated plan and then executing. gerbil, don't know what the **** he's doing. he's going after everything regardless of a plan. really dangerous as hes supposed to be a salary cap guru but willing to take on 3 max contract level players.

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

I have no problem with us driving up the asking price for whoever eventually gets Kevin Love. But in basketball terms, I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade to bring him here. Kevin is a great versatile offensive player who can do pretty much everything out there except defend at a high level. But if we're talking about putting together a core of Rudy Gay, Kevin Love, and DeMarcus Cousins we become the only team in the league with 3 top 20 usage players in the same lineup, much less the same front court. I'm not saying it's impossible to make that work, but I am saying that Coach Malone is not the right coach to make it work. You've completely negated his strengths as a coach and put his weaknesses front and center. That offense is going to be a complete mess and the defense is going to be a similar problem unless you play two super-athletes at the guard positions and run a million switches on every possession with them like Miami did in the first two years of the big 3. Adelman could work with a Cousins/Love/Gay featured trio and find a system that gets everyone good looks. I love Coach Malone, but offense is obviously not his forte.

Even so, if the coach was my only concern that can be fixed. But I happen to think Coach Malone's system is a much more reliable way to win games. Throwing up names on a piece of paper is meaningless. Teaming up Karl Malone and Gary Payton with Shaq and Kobe results in the best team of all-time right? That's 4 hall-of-famers on the same team. They're never going to lose. All sorts of basketball experts believed this before that season started. Or maybe it's just 4 alpha dogs on the same team and they're going to completely implode in the middle of the regular season. What's the common thread in every move PDA has made so far? Vasquez, Landry, Williams, Gay -- all of these guys were brought in to take advantage of opportunities to acquire talent regardless of fit. Swapping out all of our young players for Kevin Love is more of the same. If games were won on paper using numbers and slide rules and abstract "rock-paper-scissors" algorithms, then this approach is the right one. I believe basketball games are won because of synergy. It's the reason team USA doesn't always dominate international competition. It's the reason why Cleveland drafts all kinds of talent at the top of the lottery every year and still can't put together a winning season.

If Vivek truly believes that Coach Malone is the right guy to lead this team (he's the one that hired him after all, not PDA), he's got to at least listen to what he has to say. And he has to put together a roster for him that's compatible with Malone's approach to basketball. That means loading up on athletic defenders not big-numbers superstars who dominate the ball and take plays off defensively. I really wanted us to pay through the nose for Larry Bird as the GM because he has a track record of building teams that win with role-players, defensive fundamentals, and balanced offense. He's the right kind of GM for a coach like Malone. I think Vivek really wants this to work and he's brought a lot of effort an enthusiasm to the team and his personnel choices. Unfortunately, his choice of conflicting coach and GM philosophies is probably going to have us spinning our wheels for a few years until one of them goes (and it will be Malone that goes first I fear) or they find a more balanced give and take.

Excellent post. One of the best of the year and certainly in this thread. Seriously, this team would be so crapeeee with Cousins-Love partnership. They'd be struggling over the fact: 1. Who gets the ball more. 2. Who gets to shoot more. 3. Who is the leader.
They're both used to being leaders for their respective ball clubs. It's not going to work.
And lets not even get started with defense. Griffin, Howard, A. Davis, and Aldridge would score 50 a night on us. Even Duncan would score a career high on us, sadly.
As you have stated, this is not the team that Malone can coach. As evidence to this season, he doesn't know how to run a team that isn't defensively oriented. He needs to hire another assistant coach that can run offenses for us because that is far from his forte. We seemed lost on offense throughout this whole season. The only games we played well were the ones that our team scored off of defensive stops.
Personally, I'd rather have Malone right now at helm and bring in a defensive big along with a few vets (Sefolosha?) and a ball first defensive PG who is taller than 6'0. Then, we can see Malone at his best as well as the Kings.
I personally think that Malone is begging for PDA to draft Marcus Smart due to his defensive abilities. I'd love it too if his distribution and shooting skills were better. I don't trust him at this point.

With regards to trading for a Love that is not guaranteed to re-sign for us.. HELL to the NO. PASS.
His personality sucks too.

Would rather draft a Vonleh who can play on both ends of the court and has superstar potential. Now, the question is, what would we trade to draft him considering he will go before our #8 pick.

 

[Gary]

Would rather draft a Vonleh who can play on both ends of the court and has superstar potential. Now, the question is, what would we trade to draft him considering he will go before our #8 pick.

Eep.. Love >>>>> Vonleh, but I read the rest of it and knew what you were getting at. I am not a fan of Vonleh. Athletic bigs that can't block shots always worry me.

 

[KingsCitizen]

How fast do people forget that during the Webber era, our front court also featured Vlade and Peja who will never get a nod for being shot blocking players or defensive specialist. However those 2 were very smart players and really kept the offense rolling. When we needed more punch on defense we put in rotation players like Clark or Pollard or Funderburke.

Now if we can have a Love-DMC-Gay front court the offense would certainly keep rolling. DMC may still have ways to go but he has certainly improve his defense aside from probably already leading the league in getting charges. Gay has kept a steady presence of some good weak side blocks every game as well. IMO, Gay+DMC combined on defense would be near what Webber bring to that trio on defense as well.

So my argument is that if we were able to make a really good run with a Vlade-Webb-Peja trio, I think DMC-Love-Gay would be respectable. Not to mention that DMC and Love are also 2 of the bigs in the league that could pass the ball as well. And did I mention that Love and DMC rebounds the ball much better than our ancient trio does? I'm not ignoring the need of playing defense but I think some folks here are too worried about losing that in DMC-Love combo.

 

[roasthawg]

How fast do people forget that during the Webber era, our front court also featured Vlade and Peja who will never get a nod for being shot blocking players or defensive specialist. However those 2 were very smart players and really kept the offense rolling. When we needed more punch on defense we put in rotation players like Clark or Pollard or Funderburke.

Now if we can have a Love-DMC-Gay front court the offense would certainly keep rolling. DMC may still have ways to go but he has certainly improve his defense aside from probably already leading the league in getting charges. Gay has kept a steady presence of some good weak side blocks every game as well. IMO, Gay+DMC combined on defense would be near what Webber bring to that trio on defense as well.

So my argument is that if we were able to make a really good run with a Vlade-Webb-Peja trio, I think DMC-Love-Gay would be respectable. Not to mention that DMC and Love are also 2 of the bigs in the league that could pass the ball as well. And did I mention that Love and DMC rebounds the ball much better than our ancient trio does? I'm not ignoring the need of playing defense but I think some folks here are too worried about losing that in DMC-Love combo.

I agree with this post... the offensive potential of Love/Cuz/Gay is too much to overlook. On defense you have some size and a ton of rebounding.

 

[Gary]

I agree with this post... the offensive potential of Love/Cuz/Gay is too much to overlook. On defense you have some size and a ton of rebounding.

Limiting second chance points is basically how we would defend. I wouldn't be surprised if we led the league by a wide margin on limiting second chance points if those three were our front court.

How did we do this year?

EDIT: never mind. We finished 3rd in opponents offensive rebounds per game. 2012 we finished almost last. Huge improvement but I don't think defensive rebounding is a need for us.

 

[Sluggah]

I'm starting to think this might be more likely than it initially seemed, assuming:

1. Minnesota is almost definitely going to trade him, sooner rather than later. Something is better than nothing.
2. The big markets lean toward cockiness, and figure they have a good shot at just signing him as a FA outright.
3. Few smaller markets are willing to take such a risk, and may value their youth/picks more than we do ours.

If those premises are even slightly true, I feel like maybe only a few teams will make a serious offer.

 

[Sac.1989]

we need to take a risk to bring in a big name, just like we did with what at time was seen as an inefficient over the hill rudy.

this is right up our alley, as no one else is willing to take the risks we are. fortune favours the brave. looking forward to our frontcourt monster.

I have no issue with us bringing love in without an assurance he'll resign. He will find it hard to leave what will be a successful partner in crime in boogie and a new global horizon with us not to mention an amazing fan base which will take him in and no doubt push us to break our playoff drought.

 

[pdizo916]

Would a possible front court duo of Love, Cousins, and Gay work? To me, the front court is way too ball dominate and lacks any type of defense.

 

[Bricklayer]

Would a possible front court duo of Love, Cousins, and Gay work? To me, the front court is way too ball dominate and lacks any type of defense.

No guarantees. You fear the Pistons effect. But of course if you actually feared it enough, then if Rudy opts in, you could trade him for other pieces. Or if opts out and resigns for less you have money for other pieces. or if he opts out and leaves entirely you have lots of money for a more appropriate replacement.

 

[Gary]

Would a possible front court duo of Love, Cousins, and Gay work? To me, the front court is way too ball dominate and lacks any type of defense.

All three are good passers so it could create a system where they pretty much play like the Sac Kings of old. Or it could be too much talent for their own good. Like the Lakers when they had Howard, Nash, Kobe and Pau.

 

[KingsCitizen]

IMO, this offer should really make noise in the Wolves FO. With 8th pick they can grab a guy like Randle and shed salary.
But regardless of what makes people worried about our defense, this move is a very positive step by the Kings especially if this pulls through.

Unlike a possible pick of Randle or Vonleh, Love is a vet and a proven all-star who will really push the Kings to playoffs.
He will be the best big next to DMC on offense because he can score and really spread the floor and maybe we'll see those passing that CWebb and Vlade does a long long time ago. If Don Nelson consistently made the playoffs without playing any defense, how much more will a core DMC-Love-Gay which have length, size, and rebounding.
Once we reach the playoffs, then that's the time we should debate how to make the roster better for championship. With Love and Gay on expiring contracts those changes won't be hard to make.

So that's my glass half-full there.

 

[pdizo916]

All three are good passers so it could create a system where they pretty much play like the Sac Kings of old. Or it could be too much talent for their own good. Like the Lakers when they had Howard, Nash, Kobe and Pau.

And I'm going to assume that IT will be gone and Mclemore will be included in the love trade. Who would be our backcourt players? It looks like this trade does more harm than good.

 

[Sac.1989]

the talent it brings in should mitigate that somewhat. This is a win now move and a risk/reward proposition I feel we need to make

 

[hrdboild]

It's interesting to me that the Larry Sanders idea got so much negative feedback when he's exactly what this team needs to compliment Cousins -- a defensive specialist with very little intention of dominating the ball offensively. Conversely, Love is the polar opposite of Sanders -- an offensive stat-stuffer who likes to shoot the ball and averages .5 blks per game for his career. Love averaged well over 20 shots a game this season once you factor in free throw attempts and added 2.5 TOs to go with them. That accounts for an awful lot of possessions. On the other end, Cousins will have to defend the other team's best post player every night and try to rotate to the basket when Love gets beat off a defensive switch. One guy seems likely to fill in the holes in Cousins' game and the other seems more likely to get in the way.

So far all of those people who think we need to do something right now, even if it means throwing away multiple assets for a one year rental with no guarantees, why is this level of risk acceptable to you and not the risk associated with Sanders? Doesn't it make more sense to go after a shot blocking big? A big who makes a difference defensively in the post? A big who is already signed to a reasonable deal at 11 million per for 4 seasons and won't be bolting in free agency in a year? With Sanders and Cousins, Malone gets his starting front court in place for the next 4 years. Cousins is already the best offensive center in the league and Sanders, by some measures, was the best defensive big a year ago. And there's still room in the lineup for a second high usage player on the wing or in the back court so we have more options when we look to build around that front court.

That's what I mean by synergy. Love is deserving of the accolades, but I don't think he can co-exist with Cousins. Not to mention, he's going to demand a max deal and he's not going to be putting up anything close to the same numbers he did this season when he's playing alongside a comparable rebounding, post scoring monster. It's a nice fantasy league scenario, but we really do need to address the defense not follow an offense only strategy which has produced very little post-season success historically. That's what we should be looking for right now -- maybe not Sanders specifically, but a player like him.

 

[KingMilz]

If we can get Larry Sanders without giving up Mclemore or the 8th pick I'm all for it, I think a lot of the negitive feedback over Larry is cause of his temper issues and how he performed last year but I would be willing to take a risk on him, sometimes you are better off going after the best fit and not the biggest name.

 

[Bricklayer]

And I'm going to assume that IT will be gone and Mclemore will be included in the love trade. Who would be our backcourt players? It looks like this trade does more harm than good.

No no. No trade for a superstar player does more harm than good. It would just make things eventful as we pieced together the roster. Keep McCallum, may be aim for Chalmers as an affordable free agent hull. put in a call to Anthony Morrow and Thabo Sefalosha as affordable pieces. try to move either JT or Landry for some backcourt/SF help etc. You don't need to win a title in year 1. Just piece together enough patches on the perimeter to make those playoffs, even as a low seed with a future. And with potentially 50-25 every ngiht coming from your frontcourt, you don't need stars elsewhere. Reminiscient of the twin towers teams in both Houston and San Antonio. Roleplayers out there while the inside guys did the work.

 

[Tetsujin]

All three are good passers so it could create a system where they pretty much play like the Sac Kings of old. Or it could be too much talent for their own good. Like the Lakers when they had Howard, Nash, Kobe and Pau.

Well, to be fair, the Lakers situation may have worked out better if they didn't start out the season coached by the defensive version of Keith Smart, only to have him replaced mid-season by a guy who has the same philosophy as Keith Smart. Also, Nash, Kobe, and Pau were all a good half-decade past their primes, Howard was still recovering from back surgery, and their supporting cast was pretty much dead man walking Ron Ron and stale popcorn Antawn Jamison. Plus everyone and their mom wound up getting hurt.

While I'm not saying a Cuz/Gay/Love frontcourt would be daisies and unicorns, it would take a considerable amount of bad luck to fall apart as completely as that Lakers team did.

 

[Tetsujin]

If we can get Larry Sanders without giving up Mclemore or the 8th pick I'm all for it, I think a lot of the negitive feedback over Larry is cause of his temper issues and how he performed last year but I would be willing to take a risk on him, sometimes you are better off going after the best fit and not the biggest name.

I really can't get over the fact that after months of railing against most of our team for low basketball IQ, you're advocating picking up a guy who may quite possibly be dumber than a box of rocks who also costs 11 million dollars a year.

Not saying that I disagree with the idea but at least feign consistency.

 

[Gary]

And I'm going to assume that IT will be gone and Mclemore will be included in the love trade. Who would be our backcourt players? It looks like this trade does more harm than good.

No idea... We would have to convince a veteran PG to come here and want to play with us. I do NOT want McCallum as our starting PG when the season starts.

 

[pdizo916]

No idea... We would have to convince a veteran PG to come here and want to play with us. I do NOT want McCallum as our starting PG when the season starts.

That scares the heck out of me. If anything, I would want to make a block buster trade for a PG.

 

[New Era]

No idea... We would have to convince a veteran PG to come here and want to play with us. I do NOT want McCallum as our starting PG when the season starts.

Why not? If we pull off the Love trade, and somehow manage to keep Gay, he wouldn't have to do anything but play defense, bring the ball up the floor, and feed it to one of those guys who will run the offense.

 

[pdizo916]

No no. No trade for a superstar player does more harm than good. It would just make things eventful as we pieced together the roster. Keep McCallum, may be aim for Chalmers as an affordable free agent hull. put in a call to Anthony Morrow and Thabo Sefalosha as affordable pieces. try to move either JT or Landry for some backcourt/SF help etc. You don't need to win a title in year 1. Just piece together enough patches on the perimeter to make those playoffs, even as a low seed with a future. And with potentially 50-25 every ngiht coming from your frontcourt, you don't need stars elsewhere. Reminiscient of the twin towers teams in both Houston and San Antonio. Roleplayers out there while the inside guys did the work.

And I do agree with you about acquiring a superstar is not harmful under most circumstances, but if we get love and don't have enough pieces to win more than 40 games, then Love and possibly Gay are gone. Then we would not have a mclemore, or thomas, or the 8th pick in the 14 draft; we mortgaged our immediate future for a possible one year run at it. What would our line up look like in 2015-2016?

 

[mdme]

Can somebody make this work?

Kings get Rondo + minny's pick
Celts get Love + 8th
Minny gets 5th + JT? Landry?

 

[LPKingsFan]

Can somebody make this work?

Kings get Rondo + minny's pick
Celts get Love + 8th
Minny gets 5th + JT? Landry?

I don't see why they wouldn't just cut the Kings out of that deal--Boston would want to pair Love and Rondo, and the T-Wolves would rather keep the picks for the post-Love rebuild. I'm not sure what value the Kings add to that deal.

 

[kupman]

Why not? If we pull off the Love trade, and somehow manage to keep Gay, he wouldn't have to do anything but play defense, bring the ball up the floor, and feed it to one of those guys who will run the offense.

Hinrich