Kevin and Evans two big Egoist players even I saw

I'm right or not?


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Do you really think it's a coincidence that the ONLY votes to agree with the OP are from Europeans?

The point is they aren't egoist in NBA standars, but they are egoist in FIBA standars.I'd vote again for any other NBA franchise player as "egoist": it's the way this league works, it's all on starystem and go-to guys. In Europe no one is allowed to throw every ball they have in their hands.

That said, I don't get this rant. One thing it's you start following a team because a guy from your country plays there and other thing it's seeing NBA as it were FIBA basketball. It isn't.
 
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Sorry VF, but I'll judge you by your grammar. ;)
(I give non-native Americans a pass.)

I think to add on to your previous point, with an increase in Euro fans comes an increase of fans in Euro style basketball, which is different than NBA style basketball, and so their comments are coming from that perspective. If only those fans were here during the early 2000's - we all would have gotten along.
 
Sorry VF, but I'll judge you by your grammar. ;)
(I give non-native Americans a pass.)

I think to add on to your previous point, with an increase in Euro fans comes an increase of fans in Euro style basketball, which is different than NBA style basketball, and so their comments are coming from that perspective.
If only those fans were here during the early 2000's - we all would have gotten along.

Exactly. And I think that's what drboiffard and some others realize. It's the ones who want to immediately change the NBA into FIBA that are most likely going to be the most frustrated with the Kings, the NBA and Kingsfans.com ...
 
No, it's not a stupid assumption. It's an observation of what's happened since our European membership increased.

This board has been around for a very long time. It's devoted to an American NBA team and we primarily discuss NBA basketball.

What's happening now is a lot of fans of European basketball are coming here because their favorite player has become part of our team - an AMERICAN NBA TEAM.

There are bound to be differences in points of view and opinion. That's to be expected. Do you really think it's a coincidence that the ONLY votes to agree with the OP are from Europeans?

Dude, it's about discussing differences without resorting to nationalistic clap-trap. We've been doing this a long time but I strongly suspect a good number of our European members have not been active fan participants on an NBA message board before.

We need to find ways to get along but I think sometimes the tendency of some on both sides of the argument is to assume they know more than the other about the game we all love.

What I don't like from either side is the stereotypical responses such as what started this thread. Kevin and Tyreke are NOT "egoist" players. When someone starts off condemning two of the best players on the Kings with insults, I don't know what they expect from those of us who have followed the NBA and this team for years.

We can all get along and most likely most of us will. But it's gonna take effort on both sides. We're about the name on the front of the jersey much more than the name on the back.


Well, I'm European (Israeli to be more precise) and I completely disagree with the OP. I really don't think Tyreke's or Kevin's ego has anything to do with the Kings' recent problems.

I do however, think that judging from the last two games, there are several problems caused by Martin's return, that are not his fault, but need to be addressed in some manner:

1. In Kevin's absense, the tean has developed an identity that was based on high-energy play and hustle. With Kevin's return, and him not being just any new player but a very important and dominant piece of the puzzle, this identity has been shifted and a lot of the players just look confused out there.

2. Young players, especially Omri and Donte, have actually assumed leadership roles on this team while Kevin was gone, and upon his return see their role greatly diminished, not only in their minutes, but in their overall influence on this team's play. This causes them to lose confidence and become frustrated, which leads to forcing plays, missing wide open shots, and making bad decisions in general. Of course, you could say they are supposed to be professional and just do what the team needs them to do, but in reality this problem is not going to go away on its own.

3. Generally, the logjam at the 2-3 positions is hurting the team, and it will become even worse upon Cisco's return. There IS such a thing as too much depth. When players start worrying about their minutes rather than worrying about how to help their team win, nobody wins (except for the opposing teams...). Inevitably, some trades will have to be made to allow for players in the 2-3 positions to realize their potentials.

Now, I'll repeat - I don't think any of these problems are Kevin's fault. He is a great basketball player, and he does a good job playing in the style that he is playing. He would be an incredible asset for many teams in this league, especially contenders who need another scorer and are not rebuilding with a young roster. Personally, however, I do not think he is a great fit for the Kings at this point (although, I agree that two games are not a good sample size, and that a month from now Westphal could find the magic solution and everything will be sunshine and rainbows). If Kevin plays well but the other players still look lost and confused, then the whole rebuilding thing is not going to work out.

As for the possible trades, as I said, some moves need to be made to unclog the 2-3 positions. Of course, it doesn't have to be Kevin that gets traded. It could be Omri, Donte, Noc, Cisco, Ime, etc. However, keeping Kevin will mean that the identity that this team has formed in the past couple of months will have to change. Looking to the future, it also means that in two years it won't be Evans-Omri-Donte leading the team, but rather Evans+Martin+ a collection of roleplayers. It also means that whoever we trade will not get us a valuable asset, as Kevin is the only player who has real trade value for the Kings at this moment.

Lastly, feel free to take everything I said here with a grain of salt, as I am clearly a biased Casspi fan, but this is the way I see it right now, although I may be proven wrong in a couple of weeks when we start blowing out every team in the NBA to snatch the last playoff spot and sweep the Lakers. It has happened before (me being wrong, that is...).
 
2. Young players, especially Omri and Donte, have actually assumed leadership roles on this team while Kevin was gone, and upon his return see their role greatly diminished, not only in their minutes, but in their overall influence on this team's play.

I have wondered this as well. Good observation.
 
Well, I'm European (Israeli to be more precise) and I completely disagree with the OP. I really don't think Tyreke's or Kevin's ego has anything to do with the Kings' recent problems.

I do however, think that judging from the last two games, there are several problems caused by Martin's return, that are not his fault, but need to be addressed in some manner:

1. In Kevin's absense, the tean has developed an identity that was based on high-energy play and hustle. With Kevin's return, and him not being just any new player but a very important and dominant piece of the puzzle, this identity has been shifted and a lot of the players just look confused out there.

2. Young players, especially Omri and Donte, have actually assumed leadership roles on this team while Kevin was gone, and upon his return see their role greatly diminished, not only in their minutes, but in their overall influence on this team's play. This causes them to lose confidence and become frustrated, which leads to forcing plays, missing wide open shots, and making bad decisions in general. Of course, you could say they are supposed to be professional and just do what the team needs them to do, but in reality this problem is not going to go away on its own.

3. Generally, the logjam at the 2-3 positions is hurting the team, and it will become even worse upon Cisco's return. There IS such a thing as too much depth. When players start worrying about their minutes rather than worrying about how to help their team win, nobody wins (except for the opposing teams...). Inevitably, some trades will have to be made to allow for players in the 2-3 positions to realize their potentials.

Now, I'll repeat - I don't think any of these problems are Kevin's fault. He is a great basketball player, and he does a good job playing in the style that he is playing. He would be an incredible asset for many teams in this league, especially contenders who need another scorer and are not rebuilding with a young roster. Personally, however, I do not think he is a great fit for the Kings at this point (although, I agree that two games are not a good sample size, and that a month from now Westphal could find the magic solution and everything will be sunshine and rainbows). If Kevin plays well but the other players still look lost and confused, then the whole rebuilding thing is not going to work out.

As for the possible trades, as I said, some moves need to be made to unclog the 2-3 positions. Of course, it doesn't have to be Kevin that gets traded. It could be Omri, Donte, Noc, Cisco, Ime, etc. However, keeping Kevin will mean that the identity that this team has formed in the past couple of months will have to change. Looking to the future, it also means that in two years it won't be Evans-Omri-Donte leading the team, but rather Evans+Martin+ a collection of roleplayers. It also means that whoever we trade will not get us a valuable asset, as Kevin is the only player who has real trade value for the Kings at this moment.

Lastly, feel free to take everything I said here with a grain of salt, as I am clearly a biased Casspi fan, but this is the way I see it right now, although I may be proven wrong in a couple of weeks when we start blowing out every team in the NBA to snatch the last playoff spot and sweep the Lakers. It has happened before (me being wrong, that is...).

You may be a self-proclaimed "biased Casspi fan," but I think you make some very good points. Since none of us really know the answers right now, those points are valid for discussion IMHO.

I like what most of the Euro fans are bringing to the board, as I've said, and I like the different points of view. It's just the blind player homerism (reminiscent of a few Peja fans who long since departed) that makes it tough all the way around.
 
So let me get this right. Kevin and Tyreke only play for stats, and are selfish to the point that the team would be better off with out them? And Westphal isn't helping because he condones this type of play? So we bench our two best players, so guys like Omri, Spencer, Ime, and Noc get more shots, and Sergio has a chance to turn into the next JWil.

Wow. What a joke of a thread. Funny thing is, there are a few other threads which have popped up lately which can give this one a run for its money. It's hard to comment on threads which don't allow for logic/reasoning, and are instead driven completely by the agenda of a few fans.

The whole idea of this thread is somewhat hypocrytical. Tyreke and Kevin shoot too much, yet I highly doubt if Omri was leading the team in FGA's these same fans would be complaining about selfishness. This team is struggling with defense, hitting shots, and late game execution, not to mention defensive rebounding. Solution? Apparently Sergio for some, disregarding the fact he is the most inconsistent, turnover prone player on our team, who can't guard his own shadow.

I have a tough time respecting the opinions of some who are clearly more concerned with pushing an agenda, and the stats of their favorite player, while throwing the Kings players, and coach, under the bus, while throwing all logic out the window and not allowing for an intelligent conversation.
 
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The whole idea of this thread is somewhat hypocrytical. Tyreke and Kevin shoot too much, yet I highly doubt if Omri was leading the team in FGA's these same fans would be complaining about selfishness.

And if that was the case, would you defend Omri the same way you defend them? :confused:

I'm not supporting this thread's opening post, just saying that hypocrisy can go in both ways..
 
So let me get this right. Kevin and Tyreke only play for stats, and are selfish to the point that the team would be better off with out them? And Westphal isn't helping because he condones this type of play? So we bench our two best players, so guys like Omri, Spencer, Ime, and Noc get more shots, and Sergio has a chance to turn into the next JWil.

Wow. What a joke of a thread. Funny thing is, there are a few other threads which have popped up lately which can give this one a run for its money. It's hard to comment on threads which don't allow for logic/reasoning, and are instead driven completely by the agenda of a few fans.

The whole idea of this thread is somewhat hypocrytical.
Tyreke and Kevin shoot too much, yet I highly doubt if Omri was leading the team in FGA's these same fans would be complaining about selfishness. This team is struggling with defense, hitting shots, and late game execution, not to mention defensive rebounding. Solution? Apparently Sergio for some, disregarding the fact he is the most inconsistent, turnover prone player on our team, who can't guard his own shadow.

I have a tough time respecting the opinions of some who are clearly more concerned with pushing an agenda, and the stats of their favorite player, while throwing the Kings players, and coach, under the bus, while throwing all logic out the window and not allowing for an intelligent conversation.

I think I have to disagree somewhat with that assessment. The OP might have been hypocritical but, for the most part, I think the resulting discussion has been worth having...
 
So let me get this right. Kevin and Tyreke only play for stats, and are selfish to the point that the team would be better off with out them? And Westphal isn't helping because he condones this type of play? So we bench our two best players, so guys like Omri, Spencer, Ime, and Noc get more shots, and Sergio has a chance to turn into the next JWil.

Wow. What a joke of a thread. Funny thing is, there are a few other threads which have popped up lately which can give this one a run for its money. It's hard to comment on threads which don't allow for logic/reasoning, and are instead driven completely by the agenda of a few fans.

The whole idea of this thread is somewhat hypocrytical. Tyreke and Kevin shoot too much, yet I highly doubt if Omri was leading the team in FGA's these same fans would be complaining about selfishness. This team is struggling with defense, hitting shots, and late game execution, not to mention defensive rebounding. Solution? Apparently Sergio for some, disregarding the fact he is the most inconsistent, turnover prone player on our team, who can't guard his own shadow.

I have a tough time respecting the opinions of some who are clearly more concerned with pushing an agenda, and the stats of their favorite player, while throwing the Kings players, and coach, under the bus, while throwing all logic out the window and not allowing for an intelligent conversation.

You say it all as if the Kings werer going to win the championship right now thanks to Reke and Martin. They aren't. The team sucks a lot since they play together. It's a fact
 
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